The cops are owning up to it being an accident, but that really is too short of a time for the man to respond appropriately to the officer. Have to give a bit more time than just <2 seconds. I didn't see it mentioned anywhere, so I am assuming for now that he wasn't pointing the gun at the cop or anything either.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
South Carolina Police shoot armed black man who was protecting his home
- Thread starter DrForester
- Start date
- Status
andthebeatgoeson
Junior Member
Maybe they think we are like black holes. Watched that McCounaghy movie too much. There's a time dilation effect around black bodies, where 2 seconds is really like 2 years. So in essence, he should have dropped the weapon, at least, 2 months ago.
If he were pointing a gun at the officer, I don't think he would have gotten a warning.
The tiny span of time explains why it wasn't released right away, but the recording of the ambulance ride was; definitely painted a more favorable view of the incident.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Oh godamnit. I gave this story the benefit of the doubt but that shit is ridiculous
There's definitely a firing and a lawsuit incoming. Hopefully the victim can recover. :-/
andthebeatgoeson
Junior Member
Which explains frustration around these things. Only release positive info about the cops and negative info about the victim. I'm glad the words of this victim is given more credibility but it seems like credibility is only extended to defend the cop. 2 seconds is not enough time to react.
I'm glad we have more data and video. We need more data.
Yes, but the shot in the neck......... my gosh, I really wouldn't be surprised if there was permanent or long term damage in form of disability. I really hope that he recovers 100%.
Vicetrailia
Member
Well now everything changes.
No matter how the victim feels about it he didn't have enough time.
No matter how the victim feels about it he didn't have enough time.
Fuck. Now two things must happen:
1) That officer must be taken off the field. Definitely too trigger happy like what one of the other poster here said.
2) The payout must be MASSIVE. If the victim survives I guarantee he will have long-term or permanent damage. We are talking huge 7 figures here, not 6 which will NOT be enough.
... now, if, and let's all hope this does NOT happen, if the victim dies then point (1) should be adjusted to the officer being charged for 2nd degree murder.
Horrid situation all round. Horrid.
Mr Fahrenheit
Member
Eh, Cops admit it was an accident, victim says it was an accident, no big deal. It was kind of stupid to go out holding the gun, especially when the cops are responding to a call with shots fired which might make it a bit more startling when someone comes out with a gun.
hipbabboom
Huh? What did I say? Did I screw up again? :(
Dave Chappell strikes again.
"He's still here!"
Ah yes. That classic hindsight victim blaming.
"He's still here!"
Ah yes. That classic hindsight victim blaming.
Maybe I am misreading it, but it seems like it was a mistake that they immediately took responsibility for. It's highly fortunate that man survived, but I'm not seeing the same background of potential racial prejudice situation here that usually crops up in other wrongful shootings.
Edit: I see the timing issue. Not trying to justify the actions here, but those situations move so quickly that I can't imagine what it's like to be on either side of that. I'm sure the victim will be getting a nice payout from this, and rightfully so.
Edit: I see the timing issue. Not trying to justify the actions here, but those situations move so quickly that I can't imagine what it's like to be on either side of that. I'm sure the victim will be getting a nice payout from this, and rightfully so.
Sorry with them twitch muscle reflexes,1.1 seconds is enough time to comply with an order.
He would have probably been given more time to comply if he were white. Society at large is guilty of these implicit biases. Crimeblackscrimeblacksscaryviolentblackssavageblacks is the message repeated over and over for centuries. This affects split second decision making.
No big deal.
He was given 1.1 seconds to drop the weapon before he was shot. No big deal though right?
If it really had been "no big deal" they would have immediately released the dash cam footage instead of the ambulance recording.
Read the posts above yours. They only gave them about 1 second before firing. That's really not enough time to respond especially when your scared because people are trying to rob you and may not be processing information as fastly as if you were in a normal situation. Cop probably shouldn't be in field after this and the guy does have a decent case if he wants to sue.
Kid Kamikaze10
Member
This is why free gun use or whatever is so detrimental. Accidents lead to death or severe injury, no matter how well trained you are.
Just too high of a stake to just let such a large nation freely mess around with.
Just too high of a stake to just let such a large nation freely mess around with.
M0nochromatic
Member
Cops shoot the wrong people all the time. It's normal. No big deal it was just an accident.
That is quite possible, won't deny that. I guess when it comes to motivation though, it doesn't seem like they set out to do that. I may have made the same mistake as the homeowner given the situation, but if the police arrived, leaving the gun on the table when going to greet them is ideal because they were coming in expecting trouble, and some subconscious bias probably did play a factor.
But again, the owner didn't have enough time to really react, despite the officers not intending to kill him. Really bad situation all around, as the cops were expecting a potential violent conflict from the call placed, so it's already a higher risk situation from the jump.
Mammoth Jones
Member
Just handcuff and beat yourself before the cops get there and save both you and them the time...
GraveHorizon
poop meter feature creep
aDamn, 1 whole second isn't even enough time to coherently tell a person to surrender and drop their weapon, let alone enough time for them to react to such a command in a crisis situation. They need to stop hiring people with itchy trigger fingers/racists/heavy coffee drinkers/children.
Charged for impersonating an officer and dehumanizing surrender stance.
Charged for impersonating an officer and dehumanizing surrender stance.
Yeah man cops shoot innocent people all the time. Relax.
I think this poster was mocking the other poster's stupid as shit comment... at least I hope so.
Mr Fahrenheit
Member
The cop probably wasn't exactly processing information at the highest possible capacity when he's responding to a call where shots were fired and a guy walks out a door holding a gun, they're people too, training doesn't change that.
And did I say the cop was right in what he did? No, he fucked up and he admit it, just as the victim knows he shouldn't have walked out on some cops gun in hand because that's a terrible idea no matter who you are. Cop fucked up, Victim fucked up.
Did you see the video of the guy who shot the person in that Waffle House? He called the cops, then put the gun on the counter and laid down on the ground. He didn't get shot.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Look at it this way: the man who owned the house didn't shoot the people who broke in within one second of seeing them and they got away. Are we really holding the cops to a lower standard than civilians now?
Yes, I just got a chance to listen to it as well. Even the 1.1 seconds thing is wrong - it's more like 1.1 seconds from the time the cop starts yelling until he's firing his gun. He does not even complete his instruction before he shoots - the gunfire cuts off what he was saying.
He made a total twitch reaction rather than assess and respond. The home owner had *zero* chance to react.
Given they are "just people" and their training doesn't change that apparently, sure why not.
Do we even know if the man who was shot knew the cops were back there? It seems like they spoke with someone (may not have been him), then went straight to the back yard to investigate. He may have just gone back there to make sure the suspects were still gone. And even if he did know they were back there, he may have simply forgot he still had the gun in his hand. He apparently shot at the intruders, so I'm sure he was scared beyond belief and a million thoughts were racing through his head.
crazygambit
Member
What stops burglars from start shouting: "Police, drop your gun" before robbing you?
If you instantly drop it you're screwed, if you don't you're screwed as well.
Mr Fahrenheit
Member
You people are amazing, I know literally every cop in the United States is Hitler reincarnated to the internet, but this wasn't a guy who got beaten to a pulp after the cop "forgot" he handcuffed him to a pole, or someone who got shot because he was "advancing" on a cop by sprinting in the opposite direction. The cop fucked up big time by not giving the guy proper warning and he should probably be put behind a desk and be reevaluated, but he wouldn't have had to if the guy didn't walk out with a gun. So yea, shocking news, sometimes bad things happen to people and it's partially their fault.
Or, you know, he missed and they ran away. What are you even saying here?
crazygambit
Member
It's OK guys he wasn't evil, just incompetent (and terribly afraid of black people it seems).
It's his fucking property and he JUST HAD ARMED PEOPLE TRY TO BREAK INTO IT. What the fuck is wrong with your critical thinking?
Subpar Spatula
Banned
I believe what's saying is both parties acknowledge what happened and, for now, agree it was an accident but based on 1.1 reaction time people are heading to, "Cop is a racist pig who just wanted to shoot someone." While no one actually saying that, it isn't difficult to tell where this conversation will eventually lead to.
The victim may be more upset when he's recovered and learns more about the circumstance but for right now both accept it was a accident.
Mr Fahrenheit
Member
Or terribly afraid of someone walking out of a house and shooting him. Sorry, I forgot, it has nothing to do with the fact that someone with a gun walked out of a house where an armed robbery happened/was happening and shots were fired, and everything to do with him being black.
I've read this over a few times and I can't figure out what it is you're responding to.
So you're preemptively bitching about it?
Subpar Spatula
Banned
Just acknowledging where the conversation is most likely headed. The victim is still in intensive care and we know his thoughts (not current) on the situation. We should accept his judgment on the matter until he learns more. It's OK to acknowledge, outside of incident, that the officer fired too quickly and that's wrong; however, judging by the "joke" comments we can already see how this officer is being painted in that he shot with malice.
Jesus. Sometimes sorry isn't a solution, like when you're possibly disabled.
I have my doubts about it having been because he is black -- but make no mistake here, the cop fucked up in a royal way. He deserves to be fired at the very least, and the victim deserves to be appropriately compensated for it.
The cop gave no time at all, he didn't even finish his own damn command before shooting. It doesn't matter what race the victim is -- as a cop, he should've known better. That's what they're trained for.
It's really not helpful to anticipate where discussion will go, and then start arguing about that, rather than with what people are actually saying. If you take objection to something someone as said, quote them and respond to them. There is no need to invent things to argue against.
His thoughts on the incident are irrelevant now that the dash cam footage has been released. The direction of the conversation will be the same stupid as shit victim blaming happening right now so you can save your bitching and moaning until it shifts from that.
Battlezone
Member
Why are you giving the cop the benefit of the doubt, but not the victim? The victim has the right to defend his home, and just like the cop had no way of knowing if the man with the gun inside was the homeowner or intruder, the homeowner had no way of knowing if the man with the gun outside was a cop or an intruder.
edit: Nevermind, he's been banned.
- Status