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[Mammoth Jones]

Cops shoot quick cause in their minds there is no such thing as a law abiding Black man with a gun.

Someone remind me of the Black male that was in a car accident and was running towards the officer for help and got gunned down.

Or the Black male reaching for his wallet as instructed that got gunned down.

Or the Black male that was legally carrying a toy gun in Walmart when he was shot on sight. Meanwhile open carry is legal in that state.

Or the Black boy carrying a bb gun and was gunned down.

None of them got a chance to surrender. And by "chance" I mean more than 1 second. There is a bigoted fear of Black males that many people have and in law enforcement that bias, that prejudice can have lethal consequences. If police are so scared they can't give people time to properly surrender then they should not be cops. They should quit. Go be a mechanic. A baker. Toy store clerk. Anything other than being empowered to enforce the law. We shouldn't b email tolerating such bias in our public servants.

Because meanwhile in America: http://www.alternet.org/civil-liber...ns-police-officers-and-managed-not-get-killed

As my parents reminded me over and over growing up that I'm a big scary black male and I can't ever put myself in a situation where law enforcement even gets an incling that I'm up to no good cause my friends who ain't black will get the benefit of the doubt but my black ass will take a trip downtown. I vehemently disagreed with them as a kid. As an adult it's heartbreaking to realize again and again how right they were.

 

[aeolist]

so the victim admitted some level of fault while being rushed to the hospital with a critical neck injury

that doesn't seem like the kind of scenario where he can really evaluate whether he reacted properly or not

 

[Subpar Spatula]

Open and shut case, Johnson.

Maybe they think we are like black holes. Watched that McCounaghy movie too much. There's a time dilation effect around black bodies, where 2 seconds is really like 2 years. So in essence, he should have dropped the weapon, at least, 2 months ago.

Just handcuff and beat yourself before the cops get there and save both you and them the time...

I know these range from Dave Chappelle to bizarre but why the need to imply he acted with malice? Yes. This is a white cop and a black cop. Yes. Statistics show institutional racism. Yes. These events do occur. Are you sure he's acting with malice?

We know the place had armed intruders. The home owner defended himself with his gun. He appeared before a police officer with his gun. The officer gave the shortest warning ever and fired during the warning. I understand the cop shot quickly, but why are you confident he shot him because he was black?

 

[ItIsOkBro]

Man I couldn't even process what was happening in the video before the gunshots sounded. That's no time to give someone a chance to react. Hell that's no time to even see if someone is actually putting their hands up before you decide to shoot. That's just you screaming something right before you gun them down.

 

[Kaladin]

Only thing we need to know about this one is how long the cop waited before shooting.

Otherwise, it was a clear case of the guy not dropping his gun as the cop asked and identifying himself as the person who called. This kind of thing has happened before, and will happen again.

I seriously doubt race had anything to do with the shooting, however the thread title and article insert this story into that issue.

My only thing is....how bad of a shot is that cop if he's hitting this guy in the neck? Isn't he supposed to shoot to disarm, not kill?

 

[Mammoth Jones]

I know these range from Dave Chappelle to bizarre but why the need to imply he acted with malice? Yes. This is a white cop and a black cop. Yes. Statistics show institutional racism. Yes. These events do occur. Are you sure he's acting with malice?

We know the place had armed intruders. The home owner defended himself with his gun. He appeared before a police officer with his gun. The officer gave the shortest warning ever and fired during the warning. I understand the cop shot quickly, but why are you confident he shot him because he was black?

Not malice. Bias.

There is a difference. But that doesn't make it any more acceptable, does it?

 

[aeolist]

I know these range from Dave Chappelle to bizarre but why the need to imply he acted with malice? Yes. This is a white cop and a black cop. Yes. Statistics show institutional racism. Yes. These events do occur. Are you sure he's acting with malice?

We know the place had armed intruders. The home owner defended himself with his gun. He appeared before a police officer with his gun. The officer gave the shortest warning ever and fired during the warning. I understand the cop shot quickly, but why are you confident he shot him because he was black?

in your mind is it actually possible to prove any kind of bias? does the cop have to be shouting "IMA KILL THIS NIGGER" at the top of his lungs while opening fire?

 

[commedieu]

Cops shoot quick cause in their minds there is no such thing as a law abiding Black man with a gun.

Someone remind me of the Black male that was in a car accident and was running towards the officer for help and got gunned down.

Or the Black male reaching for his wallet as instructed that got gunned down.

Or the Black make that was legally carrying a toy gun in Walmart when he was shot on sight. Meanwhile open carry is legal in that state.

Or the Black boy carrying a bb gun and was gunned down.

None of them got a chance to surrender. And by "chance" I mean more than 1 second. There is a bigoted fear of Black males that many people have and in law enforcement that bias, that prejudice can have lethal consequences. If police are so scared they can't give people time to properly surrender then they should not be cops. They should quit. Go be a mechanic. A baker. Toy store clerk. Anything other than being empowered to enforce the law. We shouldn't b email tolerating such bias in our public servants.

Because meanwhile in America: http://www.alternet.org/civil-liber...ns-police-officers-and-managed-not-get-killed

As my parents reminded me over and over growing up that I'm a big scary black male and I can't ever put myself in a situation where law enforcement even gets an incling that I'm up to no good cause my friends who ain't black will get the benefit of the doubt but my black ass will take a trip downtown. I vehemently disagreed with them as a kid. As an adult it's heartbreaking to realize again and again how right they were.

Ill always say it, You're my superman.

all things considered. You are the hope, neo.. BE SAFE.

 

[shem935]

Only thing we need to know about this one is how long the cop waited before shooting.

Otherwise, it was a clear case of the guy not dropping his gun as the cop asked and identifying himself as the person who called. This kind of thing has happened before, and will happen again.

I seriously doubt race had anything to do with the shooting, however the thread title and article insert this story into that issue.

My only thing is....how bad of a shot is that cop if he's hitting this guy in the neck? Isn't he supposed to shoot to disarm, not kill?

No he is not. Center mass is the target.

 

[Mook1e]

Everyone saying the victim says he made a mistake so it's all good. Have you not seen the video of the black kid being shot while trying to get his ID under order of a policeman immediately begin apologizing for "whatever it was he did" to be shot?
Doesn't excuse anything.

 

[Subpar Spatula]

Not malice. Bias.

There is a difference. But that doesn't make it any more acceptable, does it?

Doesn't make the shooting acceptable. I'm curious as to how you're certain his bias played a part in the shooting. Isn't another alternative he was aware of intruders, doesn't know what they look like, and shot a person who had a gun?

 

[Raistlin]

The only way that amount of time is reasonable is if he was unfortunately pointing the gun at the office or was in the process of doing that.

If that's not the case, this is either a procedural violation or the procedures dictating this need to be revised.

 

[Kaladin]

No he is not. Center mass is the target.

Even still, the neck is a little off center.

 

[Pepiope]

Cops are obviously at fault, but did the victim tell the cops he also had a gun when he called? That is valuable information when you tell dispatch that armed men are on your property.

That officer had no idea how to deal with a high pressure situation. He should be reassigned to a desk for a bit.

Only thing we need to know about this one is how long the cop waited before shooting.

Otherwise, it was a clear case of the guy not dropping his gun as the cop asked and identifying himself as the person who called. This kind of thing has happened before, and will happen again.

I seriously doubt race had anything to do with the shooting, however the thread title and article insert this story into that issue.

My only thing is....how bad of a shot is that cop if he's hitting this guy in the neck? Isn't he supposed to shoot to disarm, not kill?

You always shoot to kill.

Even still, the neck is a little off center.

Ever fire a gun? It's not a peashooter.

 

[shem935]

Even still, the neck is a little off center.

Yeah he was off. Gun's as I understand from many threads, are used only with the intent to incapacitate or kill. Incapacitate as in stop someone from being a threat. That means that this officer gave someone about 1 second to comply and then attempted to kill them. Now what his motivations were for doing, be it innate bias, inexperience, or being to quick to pull a trigger, are up for debate and most likely an internal review from the department. What is clear however is that he should not be policing the streets.

Also yeah gun's are a bit unpredictable. That's why they aim for center mass. Biggest target. Gun probably climbed while he pulled the trigger.

 

[Kaladin]

Yeah he was off. Gun's as I understand from many threads, are used only with the intent to incapacitate or kill. Incapacitate as in stop someone from being a threat. That means that this officer gave someone about 1 second to comply and then attempted to kill them. Now what his motivations were for doing, be it innate bias, inexperience, or being to quick to pull a trigger, are up for debate and most likely an internal review from the department. What is clear however is that he should not be policing the streets.

Also yeah gun's are a bit unpredictable. That's why they aim for center mass. Biggest target. Gun probably climbed while he pulled the trigger.

If I were a betting man, I'd go with inexperience.

 

[JDSN]

I know these range from Dave Chappelle to bizarre but why the need to imply he acted with malice? Yes. This is a white cop and a black cop. Yes. Statistics show institutional racism. Yes. These events do occur. Are you sure he's acting with malice?

We know the place had armed intruders. The home owner defended himself with his gun. He appeared before a police officer with his gun. The officer gave the shortest warning ever and fired during the warning. I understand the cop shot quickly, but why are you confident he shot him because he was black?

I was making a joke, just cos people called out for making up arguments doesn't mean you have to resort to purposely misinterpret a comment to say you were right.

 

[Enzom21]

I know these range from Dave Chappelle to bizarre but why the need to imply he acted with malice? Yes. This is a white cop and a black cop. Yes. Statistics show institutional racism. Yes. These events do occur. Are you sure he's acting with malice?

We know the place had armed intruders. The home owner defended himself with his gun. He appeared before a police officer with his gun. The officer gave the shortest warning ever and fired during the warning. I understand the cop shot quickly, but why are you confident he shot him because he was black?

You're dead set on making this a thing aren't you?

 

[Figboy79]

So, is this number 25 on the list?


25) Calling the police while protecting your own home from home invaders.


I'm thinking of just selling all of my shit and moving to a cave. I know that we joke and make light of this kind of stuff here, but the truth is, it is fucking terrifying being a black male in the United States (my only frame of reference, as I have only lived here in the US). As I've stated numerous times before, my interactions with police I try to keep to a minimum, and the few times I've had to have been incredibly tense for me.

We are told to comply, but often, we aren't even given a chance to comply, such as the case here. There is a marked difference in how police officers respond to black suspects than non-black suspects. I don't know the numbers exactly, but it's clear as day to me that officers are quick to respond to black suspects with aggressive/deadly force compared to a non-black suspect. The proof is literally in the pudding (ok, not literally in a cup of pudding, but you know what I mean, dammit!).

The officers that killed John Crawford in that Walmart didn't even give him a chance to respond to their orders to drop the weapon. They burst into the scene, and Crawford started to turn and face them, but they were already opening fire on him.

It's fucking scary. I have family and friends in the police force, but that doesn't stop me from being uncomfortable around police when I see them. What we're seeing now is the result of a culture that has demonized and dehumanized blacks to the point that we see them as some superhuman, powerful beast at best, and a savage "thug" (coded language for the win!) at worst. It's seeped into our culture to a dangerous degree. That fear of us, even now, in 2015, is getting us seriously injured, and in many cases, killed.

It's going to take a massive, and I mean, massive, shift in our thinking, and our portrayal of minorities across the media (film, television, books, etc, etc), before we can sort this shit out. Seeing black people as actual human beings, worthy of our empathy and understanding, would be a nice start.

It's really fucked up that I hope my kids look more like my wife than me (she's white, and I'm black/samoan, leaning heavily toward the caramel spectrum of the color wheel. lol). But that's how I feel, because I see that not much has actually changed in the 36 years I've been on the planet in regards to how people see me and my people.

I really hope this guy recovers and no permanent damage has been done physically. Mentally, I hope he can pull through as well. He did the right thing, and still managed to get punished for it. What a mind fuck that is.

 

[Subpar Spatula]

I was making a joke, just cos people called out for making up arguments doesn't mean you have to resort to purposely misinterpret a comment to say you were right.

It implies the cop at participating in corruption and brutality against minorities: painting him badly because of statistics.

You're dead set on making this a thing aren't you?

Curious as to how someone can be that certain the victim's race played a factor in his shooting. Comments like that, to me, are troubling.

 

[Wolfe]

That is quite possible, won't deny that. I guess when it comes to motivation though, it doesn't seem like they set out to do that. I may have made the same mistake as the homeowner given the situation, but if the police arrived, leaving the gun on the table when going to greet them is ideal because they were coming in expecting trouble, and some subconscious bias probably did play a factor.

But again, the owner didn't have enough time to really react, despite the officers not intending to kill him. Really bad situation all around, as the cops were expecting a potential violent conflict from the call placed, so it's already a higher risk situation from the jump.

You don't even know they guy knew for sure it was the police, no where does it say he went to the back door to greet the police. For all we know he could have thought it was the burglars until he opened the door. Plus the bolded, yeah the officer was definitely trying to kill him at that moment. That's what they are trained to do, unlike the movies they don't shoot guns out of peoples hands or shoot them in the leg.

Just acknowledging where the conversation is most likely headed. The victim is still in intensive care and we know his thoughts (not current) on the situation. We should accept his judgment on the matter until he learns more. It's OK to acknowledge, outside of incident, that the officer fired too quickly and that's wrong; however, judging by the "joke" comments we can already see how this officer is being painted in that he shot with malice.

This is a horrible attitude to take, especially in a discussion like this. Can you not see how you're part of the problem you are making a stink about?

Only thing we need to know about this one is how long the cop waited before shooting.

Otherwise, it was a clear case of the guy not dropping his gun as the cop asked and identifying himself as the person who called. This kind of thing has happened before, and will happen again.

I seriously doubt race had anything to do with the shooting, however the thread title and article insert this story into that issue.

My only thing is....how bad of a shot is that cop if he's hitting this guy in the neck? Isn't he supposed to shoot to disarm, not kill?

Again, no, this isn't the movies

Curious as to how someone can be that certain the victim's race played a factor in his shooting. Comments like that, to me, are troubling.

Uhhh, it's logic dude.

 

[Javaman]

You always shoot to kill.

Man, I hate that phrase. You never shoot to kill, It's ALWAYS shoot to stop. Unfortunately death sometimes occurs.

 

[TheJLC]

If the report does say that he did not point or move toward the officers with the weapon, then the officers are in the wrong. Otherwise, police do not have to give warnings if someone indeed points a weapon toward them.

But if Heyward came out, gun in hand, not pointing it toward police then depending on the totality of circumstances the officers could have taken cover or ordered him to put it down. Depends on a lot of factors.

 

[JDSN]

It implies the cop at participating in corruption and brutality against minorities: painting him badly because of statistics..

Or a joke from a popular stand off, no wonder you have this attitude in this kind of threads, you start from the imaginary point that people have ill will.

 

[Subpar Spatula]

Uhhh, it's logic dude.

Can someone articulate this logic with information from this situation? Not statistics. This situation. Where was the point where we could say with confidence, "May as well beat myself before the police arrive to save some time"? I'm actually super curious as to where. I know this could be said about institutional racism, but where is it here?

Or a joke from a popular stand off, no wonder you have this attitude in this kind of threads, you start from the imaginary point that people have ill will.

I'm asking why start it at the racist angle? You can agree this case isn't as clear cut as a man getting shot with his hands up, on the ground, running away, little kid, man in a store with a fake gun, etc. With the information available to this situation, what details are you using to come to this conclusion?

The joke refers to corrupt and racist cops. When said here it's implying the cop is the same. Joking about it doesn't remove the harm it does.

 

[Dryk]

Man I couldn't even process what was happening in the video before the gunshots sounded. That's no time to give someone a chance to react. Hell that's no time to even see if someone is actually putting their hands up before you decide to shoot. That's just you screaming something right before you gun them down.

Yep, not enough time for the victim to process who is yelling at him or why. Nowhere near enough time for the shooter to process any response.

 

[Gotdatmoney]

Can someone articulate this logic with information from this situation? Not statistics. This situation. Where was the point where we could say with confidence, "May as well beat myself before the police arrive to save some time"? I'm actually super curious as to where. I know this could be said about institutional racism, but where is it here?

The fact that he was shot within 1.1 seconds of the first command? He didn't even have time to respond.

I'm asking why start it at the racist angle? You can agree this case isn't as clear cut as a man getting shot with his hands up, on the ground, running away, little kid, man in a store with a fake gun, etc. With the information available to this situation, what details are you using to come to this conclusion?

The joke refers to corrupt and racist cops. When said here it's implying the cop is the same. Joking about it doesn't remove the harm it does.

I mean, it's not that the cop is inherently racist. It's that black people are demonstrably considered more dangerous than people of other races and that leaks into all interactions between them and the police. When one wants to prove a point you don't use individual cases where you can explain away parts of it, you look at trends and draw conclusions. The officer very well could have been scared but considering that a black male is 21 times more likely to be shot by the police than a white male, how can you not look at a situation like this and see some sort of discrimination in it?

 

[Subpar Spatula]

The fact that he was shot within 1.1 seconds of the first command? He didn't even have time to respond.

You attribute none of that to the the type of situation? I can understand if it's a kid with a toy gun, a man with a toy gun in a toy store, a guy running away, arrested for "dehumanizing stares", but there is to legitimacy to the threat at that call? I say it's very hard to say if the shooting was racially motivated because you have this very real and very dangerous call the officer responded to.

I mean, it's not that the cop is inherently racist. It's that black people are demonstrably considered more dangerous than people of other races and that leaks into all interactions between them and the police. When one wants to prove a point you don't use individual cases where you can explain away parts of it, you look at trends and draw conclusions. The officer very well could have been scared but considering that a black male is 21 times more likely to be shot by the police than a white male, how can you not look at a situation like this and see some sort of discrimination in it?

I don't see it as discrimination (yet) due to the call the officer responded to. The officer was even remorseful for what he did (something officers who've murdered will rarely do). We can look at statistics and draw a conclusion. That is absolutely true. How can you apply aggregate data to this cop and this situation? We have to be careful how we approach situations like that. We can compare it to date rape: it's OK for women to cover their drink, not accept, etc. because there's a chance they could have something slipped in their drink. It's a different situation when you declare a person who buys you a drink a rapist because of statistics.

I could look like a fool if the cop does turn out to be racist. I'll accept that. I don't think it's a good idea to determine one's character because of statistics.

 

[Gotdatmoney]

You attribute none of that to the the type of situation? I can understand if it's a kid with a toy gun, a man with a toy gun in a toy store, a guy running away, arrested for "dehumanizing stares", but there is to legitimacy to the threat at that call? I say it's very hard to say if the shooting was racially motivated because you have this very real and very dangerous call the officer responded to.

No the situation was dangerous and that plays a part I agree but ultimately it's still not valid as a defense. He wasn't shot at "because he was black", he was shot at because he was "perceived as a threat" which black people are extraordinarily more likely to be identified as such. That's why this is so troubling. He wasn't a threat but because of the perception around black males he was taken out before he could even react to what was said.

I don't see it as discrimination (yet) due to the call the officer responded to. The officer was even remorseful for what he did (something officers who've murdered will rarely do). We can look at statistics and draw a conclusion. That is absolutely true. How can you apply aggregate data to this cop and this situation? We have to be careful how we approach situations like that. We can compare it to date rape: it's OK for women to cover their drink, not accept, etc. because there's a chance they could have something slipped in their drink. It's a different situation when you declare a person who buys you a drink a rapist because of statistics.

I could look like a fool if the cop does turn out to be racist. I'll accept that. I don't think it's a good idea to determine one's character because of statistics.

I don't think this was malicious at all personally, it's more the issue that regardless of whether it was or it wasn't we're left with another black male shot at by the police. You can't treat them as isolated incidents.

 

[wanderingprostheyltite]

Dave Chappell strikes again.

"He's still here!"

"This guy broke in and hung up pictures of all his friends and family! Open and shut case, Johnson. Now sprinkle some crack on him and let's get out of here".

Spoiler

Yes I paraphrased that bit for obvious reasons

 

[YoungHav]

That is quite possible, won't deny that. I guess when it comes to motivation though, it doesn't seem like they set out to do that. I may have made the same mistake as the homeowner given the situation, but if the police arrived, leaving the gun on the table when going to greet them is ideal because they were coming in expecting trouble, and some subconscious bias probably did play a factor.

But again, the owner didn't have enough time to really react, despite the officers not intending to kill him. Really bad situation all around, as the cops were expecting a potential violent conflict from the call placed, so it's already a higher risk situation from the jump.

yeah, this wasn't malicious imo. But it's that palpable fear of blacks I bet was involved. The same psyche that got Tamir Rice and John Crawford killed within 2 seconds. It's really fucked up that it looks like police are trained to say the victim didn't comply, each time. Yet when video/audio evidence comes out we see the guns pop off within seconds.

 

[Subpar Spatula]

No the situation was dangerous and that plays a part I agree but ultimately it's still not valid as a defense. He wasn't shot at "because he was black", he was shot at because he was "perceived as a threat" which black people are extraordinarily more likely to be identified as such. That's why this is so troubling. He wasn't a threat but because of the perception around black males he was taken out before he could even react to what was said.

Yes. He was perceived as a threat because the call to the house was about armed intruders. Any non-cop there with a gun will be perceived as a threat. The shots were fired too quickly but do we attribute that to racism or nervousness? I'm on the side of it's nervousness because the officer actually seems remorseful for his actions.

I don't think this was malicious at all personally, it's more the issue that regardless of whether it was or it wasn't we're left with another black male shot at by the police. You can't treat them as isolated incidents.

You don't treat them as isolated incidents but you do treat them case by case.

It's just odd he would be thrown in and given joke comments as if he was arresting a black child on a beach for "dehumanizing stares". This is a case where you have to wait and see what comes from it. The situation was chaotic--even if the officer shot way too fast--because it's hard to attribute his reasoning to racism at this point.

 

[BigDug13]

Yes. He was perceived as a threat because the call to the house was about armed intruders. Any non-cop there with a gun will be perceived as a threat. The shots were fired too quickly but do we attribute that to racism or nervousness? I'm on the side of it's nervousness because the officer actually seems remorseful for his actions.





You don't treat them as isolated incidents but you do treat them case by case.

It's just odd he would be thrown in and given joke comments as if he was arresting a black child on a beach for "dehumanizing stares". This is a case where you have to wait and see what comes from it. The situation was chaotic--even if the officer shot way too fast--because it's hard to attribute his reasoning to racism at this point.

You can't treat systemic problems on a case by case basis. Trends are not squashed that way.

 

[Subpar Spatula]

You can't treat systemic problems on a case by case basis. Trends are not squashed that way.

True, but we're not discussing trends. My question was how can you declare or imply the officer in question is racist or biased towards black people? You can't because you're projecting statistics on a single person without weighing the other factors. We can determine the officer who shot Mike Brown is racist because of his actions before, during, and after the incident. This officer appears remorseful. I'm curious as to what details available allow for a conclusion of, "May as well beat ourselves up to save the police some time"? We can say that in general but it's being said about this specific incident.

 

[YoungHav]

True, but we're not discussing trends. My question was how can you declare or imply the officer in question is racist or biased towards black people? You can't because you're projecting statistics on a single person without weighing the other factors. We can determine the officer who shot Mike Brown is racist because of his actions before, during, and after the incident. This officer appears remorseful. I'm curious as to what details available allow for a conclusion of, "May as well beat ourselves up to save the police some time"? We can say that in general but it's being said about this specific incident.

He can be remorseful and have subconscious biases. They aren't mutually exclusive. I can't definitively prove it, but I would bet $500 that implicit biases were probable.

 

[Subpar Spatula]

He can be remorseful and have subconscious biases. They aren't mutually exclusive. I can't definitively prove it, but I would bet $500 that implicit biases were probable.

Is that enough to say he's racist and make comments about how you should beat yourself up to save yourself and the police time?

 

[hipbabboom]

Is that enough to say he's racist and make comments about how you should beat yourself up to save yourself and the police time?

Yes. Yes it is because both inferences highlight the same core issue systematic racism that effects peoples judgment and the actions they taken due to those effects on judgment. It's a satirical remark rooted in the reality of what people fear may happen to them and the absurd thought that maybe if they properly do the polices job (which is to assault them) and can pull it off without dying or being shot then they can gain favorable treatment for saving the police time and also increase their own survivability. Lets beat a joke into the ground by explaining it.

If you want to see a recent real world example of this, refer to the "Violent thug who shot someone in a diner." Poor guy even elected to assume the position in wait of the cops arrival even though he was the victim just for the sole purpose of increasing his survival.

 

[Subpar Spatula]

Yes. Yes it is because both inferences highlight the same core issue systematic racism that effects peoples judgment and the actions they taken due to those effects on judgment. It's a satirical remark rooted in the reality of what people fear may happen to them and the absurd thought that maybe if they properly do the polices job (which is to assault them) and can pull it off without dying or being shot then they can gain favorable treatment for saving the police time and also increase their own survivability. Lets beat a joke into the ground by explaining it.

If you want to see a recent real world example of this, refer to the "Violent thug who shot someone in a diner." Poor guy even elected to assume the position in wait of the cops arrival even though he was the victim just for the sole purpose of increasing his survival.

You're OK with people judging other people based on statistics?

If this thread was about institutional racism I would not care the comment was said, but this thread is about one officer who (very quickly) shot a black person during a call that's arguably very stressful and dangerous. I don't doubt people have bias in them but was that the determining factor in the victim being shot? I don't see it here, I see it in the aggregate but I don't think it's fair to any one to say you're X because you belong to the Y statistic. I doubt you would want people to think about you that way.

 

[The Adder]

You're OK with people judging other people based on statistics?

If this thread was about institutional racism I would not care the comment was said, but this thread is about one officer who (very quickly) shot a black person during a call that's arguably very stressful and dangerous. I don't doubt people have bias in them but was that the determining factor in the victim being shot? I don't see it here, I see it in the aggregate but I don't think it's fair to any one to say you're X because you belong to the Y statistic. I doubt you would want people to think about you that way.

Racism:

Everyone knows it exists, but it's never responsible for this specific situation.

 

[Siegcram]

Racism:

Everyone knows it exists, but it's never responsible for this specific situation.

It's like religion that way.

But it's entirely unsurprising to see the usual goobers do their song and dance in here anyway.

 

[commedieu]

You're OK with people judging other people based on statistics?

If this thread was about institutional racism I would not care the comment was said, but this thread is about one officer who (very quickly) shot a black person during a call that's arguably very stressful and dangerous. I don't doubt people have bias in them but was that the determining factor in the victim being shot? I don't see it here, I see it in the aggregate but I don't think it's fair to any one to say you're X because you belong to the Y statistic. I doubt you would want people to think about you that way.

You never think its evidence of the systemic problem in the USA. You always want to hinge your bet on the least-plausible scenario. Every thread you participate in, is always the fluke that isn't part of what we know about the corruption/racism of the justice system.

Even going with odds, say, 1 out of 4 "not all cops" posts you make in threads are part of the statistical demographic. We've got a severe problem. At this point, all your posts do is serve a reminder that people still want to obfuscate the issue with meaningless discussions that have nothing to do with the point that there is systematic racism in america, the justice system is corrupt and needs to be fixed, police training needs a re haul, as well as throwing police in jail for their crimes. "This one wasn't one thats part of the systemic problem!" is just your sole message, its the same opinion every thread. Its getting tiring because this lazy mindset just creates the current system where we can blame everything besides the known, corrupt justice system. They deserve to be scrutinized above and beyond, due to their responsibilities to uphold the law. This is a deserved criticism.

There are known problems, and known issues. Generalizing is hardly the problem in these threads, yet, it seems to be the most important thing to discuss. As if people who want change in the justice system, don't know good apples. As if its impossible for good apples to also understand the system is a bit broken.

Every day, is another opportunity for you to imagine a scenario where systematic racism isn't a problem, in x instance. Well, it is a problem. We need to solve it, today. Its a problem that affects the good officers. Whether or not its 100% racist, who cares, its a trend, and it falls right in line with the shoot-on-sight mentality that police officers have with black people. Thats the problem.

With the sheer volume of incidents, its getting ridiculous to see people persisting to avoid condemning the system as a whole, and starting from there. This shouldn't be a message that the black community needs to get out, this is happening in your own back yard. Yet, here we are again, with another person gunned down like an animal, and the game of "maybe this one was different because that means reasons to me."

edit;

Going on a limb, I imagine you want to use "judging people by statistics" as a springboard to discuss crime rates and statistics. That discussion can be had as long as you understand the underlying factors of why crime rates are the way they are, and what caused a population to be stagnant due to CIA intervention with drugs, and a justice system, for profit, targeting a specific type of individual, and overall laws and legislation to prevent upward mobility.

So its perfectly fine to deem things what they are based on statistics, as long as you are being intellectually honest with the statistics, and with what agenda you have behind quoting them.

 

[Subpar Spatula]

You never think its evidence of the systemic problem in the USA. You always want to hinge your bet on the least-plausible scenario. Every thread you participate in, is always the fluke that isn't part of what we know about the corruption/racism of the justice system.

I already acknowledge events like these belong in the aggregate.

Even going with odds, say, 1 out of 4 "not all cops" posts you make in threads are part of the statistical demographic. We've got a severe problem. At this point, all your posts do is serve a reminder that people still want to obfuscate the issue with meaningless discussions that have nothing to do with the point that there is systematic racism in america, the justice system is corrupt and needs to be fixed, police training needs a re haul, as well as throwing police in jail for their crimes. "This one wasn't one thats part of the systemic problem!" is just your sole message, its the same opinion every thread. Its getting tiring because this lazy mindset just creates the current system where we can blame everything besides the known, corrupt justice system. They deserve to be scrutinized above and beyond, due to their responsibilities to uphold the law. This is a deserved criticism.

Deserved criticism? You know what I was originally quoting for this string, right? "May as well beat yourself up to save the police and myself time." It's a joke that's directed at this police officer. That's not criticism. I am asking what besides the person being shot too fast makes this matter racially motivated? We can all agree dehumanizing stares, shot while hands up, thrown in a van and tossed around, etc. are racially motivated.

There are known problems, and known issues. Generalizing is hardly the problem in these threads, yet, it seems to be the most important thing to discuss. As if people who want change in the justice system, don't know good apples. As if its impossible for good apples to also understand the system is a bit broken.

The argument of, "this topic isn't about generalizing, we have more important things to discuss" while nice always seems like a way to allow generalizations to be said without any criticism against them. Yes. The man being shot is horrible, should we really be saying the things I originally quoted?

Every day, is another opportunity for you to imagine a scenario where systematic racism isn't a problem, in x instance. Well, it is a problem. We need to solve it, today. Its a problem that affects the good officers. Whether or not its 100% racist, who cares, its a trend, and it falls right in line with the shoot-on-sight mentality that police officers have with black people. Thats the problem.

I have never said it was not a problem. I've never denied its existence. I agree it should be solved but I'm also pragmatic in that it won't be solved today but slowly over time. That's a different conversation if you want to PM on that.

With the sheer volume of incidents, its getting ridiculous to see people persisting to avoid condemning the system as a whole, and starting from there. This shouldn't be a message that the black community needs to get out, this is happening in your own back yard. Yet, here we are again, with another person gunned down like an animal, and the game of "maybe this one was different because that means reasons to me."

I have never not condemned the system. You act like the officer's statements after the incident are meaningless even when he appears remorseful. Does that not matter?

edit;

Going on a limb, I imagine you want to use "judging people by statistics" as a springboard to discuss crime rates and statistics. That discussion can be had as long as you understand the underlying factors of why crime rates are the way they are, and what caused a population to be stagnant due to CIA intervention with drugs, and a justice system, for profit, targeting a specific type of individual, and overall laws and legislation to prevent upward mobility.

So its perfectly fine to deem things what they are based on statistics, as long as you are being intellectually honest with the statistics, and with what agenda you have behind quoting them.

That's not my intention.

 

[A Link to the Past]

Dash cam footage released.
Two whole seconds before he fired.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/05/11/cop-shoots-homeowner-south-carolina_n_7260830.html

Ugh. This is inexcusable. Of course, people are going to just cite the victim's perspective on what happened and ignore that frankly, he did not have the opportunity to drop his weapon according to the actual facts.

 

[Siegcram]

I have never not condemned the system. You act like the officer's statements after the incident are meaningless even when he appears remorseful. Does that not matter?

Not really, no. What matters is the stunning, yet familiar display of incompetence, bias and trigger-happiness by yet another police officer and the repercussions (or lack thereof) it incurs.

His statement doesn't matter in the least.

 

[BigDug13]

I think the bottom line is that certain people are raised to be suspicious and fearful of black people and in certain regions, a lot of these people end up on the police force. Add to that a policing system that targets black people and black neighborhoods and it ends up reinforcing their false ideals about fear and distrust of black people.

It's a difficult thing to tackle at the level of police accountability without tackling the systemic problems in society that leads to these people being how they are on the police force.

Stiffer penalties and less blue shield would be a great band-aid though.

 

[JeanGrey]

So let me get this straight. Man calls the cops because someone was trying to break in his house. Cop get there sees black man with a gun so he decided that must be the perp so he shoots him.
Well omg why did the black man have a gun. How dare he DEFEND HIS own house!

 

[Subpar Spatula]

Not really, no. What matters is the stunning, yet familiar display of incompetence, bias and trigger-happiness by yet another police officer and the repercussions (or lack thereof) it incurs.

His statement doesn't matter in the least.

The officer does not choose his punishment. I agree there is a lack of accountability.

If statistical reasoning is to be used, is all interactions with minorties from officers stemmed from bias or racism?

 

[Siegcram]

If statistical reasoning is to be used, is all interactions with minorties from officers stemmed from bias or racism?

That's not how statistics work.

 

[FelixOrion]

Don't know if it's been mentioned or not, but the Charlston County Sheriff in the OP, James Alton Cannon Jr. (aka Al Cannon) pleaded no contest to third-degree assault and battery in 2012 for slapping a handcuffed suspect in the back of a patrol car. Even more ironic, he was booked and jailed at the very jail that bares his name. And yet he's still the Sheriff.

 

[Whom_Gods_Annoy]

This very unfortunate, but I'm a little skeptical that he was intending to shoot with malice. The cop admitted he was at fault so I'm going to go with inexperience and stupidity rather than bias and racism.

I'll agree though that holy shit 1.1 seconds is not nearly enough time and this incident is entirely the responsibility of the officer.

But I'm not sure if we could ever really know if the officer would have waited longer if the owner wasn't black. Can anyone provide a comparison with a similar incident where an officer was confronting a white man? I don't want to get off-topic but I feel it could shed a little light on the situation.

Why do police officers shoot to kill instead of shooting to disarm in these situations? Is a shot to the knee or arm not enough?

As others have pointed out, you always aim for the center of mass and shoot to kill, and due to inexperience/stupidity he aimed a little higher while shooting.

Not trying to diminish his responsibly in any way. He is still completely at fault.