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[nominedomine]

Are you telling me you're using some random piracy site or torrent to know the numbers? That is not a trustworthy source of information.

So, if you believe the numbers can't be tracked how do you know that piracy isn't an issue? Anyway, I'm done with this subject, you can believe whatever you want.

 

[Guilty_AI]

So, if you believe the numbers can't be tracked how do you know that piracy isn't an issue?

Because pc games under fair conditions sell similar to their console counterparts, piracy clearly isn't hampering expected sales.

Anyway, I'm done with this subject, you can believe whatever you want.

You could've just said you were speaking out of your buttocks from the start and saved us both the trouble.

 

[SmokedMeat]

Sony’s making money and that’s all that matters. Day and date releases will obviously sell better than old titles at full price.
Sony’s doing a great job with their definitive editions on PC, and it will only get better.

 

[ANIMAL1975]

You couldn’t be more wrong and different taste does not clean days gone.
But anyway. I also do not agree that their games are all the same. It’s nonsense

Ok mate, you the man _ i will try to enjoy the cutscenes from now on, and not dig into boring games like days gone because you say so.... Thanks

 

[Guilty_AI]

Come on you two, take it to dm's or soemthing lol.

Can't help it, since for a moment i thought there was actually a good way to track piracy numbers i wasn't aware of, which is a goldmine of information i'd be missing. Turns out it was just bollocks.

 

[Stuart360]

Can't help it, since for a moment i thought there was actually a good way to track piracy numbers i wasn't aware of, which is a goldmine of information i'd be missing. Turns it was just bollocks.

Well like i said earlier, some of the biggest selling games on Steam have had zero drm. And publishers take into account piracy anyway when they do their projections etc.
Its also somthing every DRM free game has to put up with so anyone using piracy as some kind of excuse for something simply doesnt understand how it works.

 

[MScarpa]

Why don't you find the link yourself and post here so you can get banned instead of me?

Dude just let it go and move on. This isn't worth ANYONE getting banned.

 

[DeaDPo0L84]

Won't be much longer before Sony realizes releasing their first-party games day and date on PC isn't a bad thing.

At this point it feels like it's purely a timing thing more than anything. They probably want to ensure their developers can work alongside the PC port team to get the game out at the same time without the product suffering quality wise. They've already said LOU remake will release very shortly on PC after the console release so they're narrowing that gap already.

The idea that they don't want to upset the console warriors is laughable. They're a business, they want to make money and releasing day and date on both platforms just simply makes business sense.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Won't be much longer before Sony realizes releasing their first-party games day and date on PC isn't a bad thing.

And miss a second wind of basically free marketing/PR win/Sales? Nah.

Is like movies.

Theatrical window = Console release.
VOD/Digital Buy/Rental = Game in your subscription service.
Ancillary market = PC and even other platforms.

 

[BlackTron]

I don't think it will hurt them at all. Pcs and consoles are two different things, many people don't want to have a pc. And i bet those who have a gaming rig, would only buy a console + some exclusives, but no 3rd party games and no subscriptions, but that's what Sony wants. So they keep the pc guys on the pc, won't lose many people to pc, but gain the pc gamers that hate consoles. I think Sony will profit permanently from this move. Games are getting more and more expensive and this will help.

Thank you for your opinion.

My advice to you is to not manage a game company.

 

[BlackTron]

It really hasn't hurt MS as far as I can tell. The majority buy a console because they want a console. And if people are willing to buy their own hardware rather than having Sony subsidize it for them then that is almost a plus for Sony. Couple that with what must be ridiculous mark-ups on controllers and the push towards MTX and PC is likely where a significant portion of their long term gains will be.

It's bizarre to me that we should draw comparisons to Microsoft who has been playing catch up to Sony since before Xbox One was even released, and even this gen has only sold half PS5 numbers. What gains MS have made, have basically come from shedding money to subsidize customers. I suppose Sony should be taking as many notes from MS as possible on how to sell less hardware and get people to play games with no profit margin.

If the ONLY games Sony had were first party games, then maybe. But Sony wants you to choose Playstation over Xbox or PC because they also want you to buy all the third party games on their platform. That's money they make by leaning back and doing nothing. First party games are not made just for sales of that game. They're made to lead from the front and secure the strength of the platform so ALL THAT OTHER money can roll in too.

That's why I think it's reasonable to offer old ass PS games on PC. By that time, most people who were going to get it on a console have done it already. It means extra revenue and exposure for the IP that may be getting a new game on PS. For example Horizon. But to offer the new games day and date is complete insanity. If I was the CEO that did that to PS I would commit seppeku. TOTAL brand-destroying insanity.

 

[Ozriel]

The more they sell the higher the possibility of launching same day as the console versions in future?

They will likely keep the gap for single player games, but it'll shrink.

Most likely they'll launch day and date for most of their upcoming GaaS MP games

 

[Ozriel]

It's bizarre to me that we should draw comparisons to Microsoft who has been playing catch up to Sony since before Xbox One was even released, and even this gen has only sold half PS5 numbers. What gains MS have made, have basically come from shedding money to subsidize customers. I suppose Sony should be taking as many notes from MS as possible on how to sell less hardware and get people to play games with no profit margin.

If the ONLY games Sony had were first party games, then maybe. But Sony wants you to choose Playstation over Xbox or PC because they also want you to buy all the third party games on their platform. That's money they make by leaning back and doing nothing. First party games are not made just for sales of that game. They're made to lead from the front and secure the strength of the platform so ALL THAT OTHER money can roll in too.

That's why I think it's reasonable to offer old ass PS games on PC. By that time, most people who were going to get it on a console have done it already. It means extra revenue and exposure for the IP that may be getting a new game on PS. For example Horizon. But to offer the new games day and date is complete insanity. If I was the CEO that did that to PS I would commit seppeku. TOTAL brand-destroying insanity.

Thank you for your opinion.

My advice to you is to not manage a game company.

 

[BlackTron]

Thank you for your opinion.

My advice to you is to not manage a game company.

Say what you want, but Nintendo is wiping the floor because of their absolutely meticulous brand management that treats their IP like the Disney Vault.

If you didn't need to buy Nintendo for BOTW, you wouldn't have bought 15 other third party games on Switch too, games that big N don't even need to make, they just take the cut.

The picture is bigger than the total aggregate sales of an individual first party game. Imagine if BOTW released day and date on PC. JFC that's their most valuable asset, just given away. It would have been great for gamers....that afternoon, and then terrible for them later when Nintendo can't fund making as many games anymore because they screwed up.

You're expecting Sony to take this kind of damage and like it.

 

[ArtHands]

Sony expects to increase their amount of PC ports released per year, but also to increase even more their amount of brand new PS only games released per year, which implies that they don't plan to bring all their games to PC. And well, they don't plan to release games day one on PC at least for the current year and the one that ends in 2026.

Releasing more brand new PS only games than PC ports of old games, the amount of Sony exclusives not available on PC will grow over time instead of decreasing. So in the future there will be more reasons to buy a PS5 console than now, not less even if some titles will be released on PC. So yes, a few players may wait for years to see if they are lucky and the game they want gets ported. But many games won't be ported or will have to wait a lot.

Doubt that will be the case after what transpired so far.

 

[GreatnessRD]

If they do go down this path, I think that's the beginning of the end for their brand.

I say this as someone who would be happy not to have to get a PS5 and have no allegiance as a "die hard Sony fan" whatsoever. I grew up on Nintendo/Sega and despised Sony while they plowed Dreamcast.

So it would not piss me off personally at all if their games went to PC day one. But objectively this is a terrible move trading short term gains for long term problems.

What makes you have this thought process? I know a lot of people say this, but no one every explains to me why they believe it'll be the end for Sony. It's way more people in this world scared of anything PC and will always go for consoles. Especially for its convenience. Sony will be getting money from a segment of gamers (PC) that was once a closed market for them so I fail to see the downsides here.

 

[poppabk]

Say what you want, but Nintendo is wiping the floor because of their absolutely meticulous brand management that treats their IP like the Disney Vault.

If you didn't need to buy Nintendo for BOTW, you wouldn't have bought 15 other third party games on Switch too, games that big N don't even need to make, they just take the cut.

The picture is bigger than the total aggregate sales of an individual first party game. Imagine if BOTW released day and date on PC. JFC that's their most valuable asset, just given away. It would have been great for gamers....that afternoon, and then terrible for them later when Nintendo can't fund making as many games anymore because they screwed up.

You're expecting Sony to take this kind of damage and like it.

Remember when the WiiU walked all over the other consoles because of Nintendos IP? Did we forget that Mario Kart 8 sold 8 million on WiiU and 40 million on Switch.
You are operating under the idea that no-one actually wants a console and the only reason they own one is because they have to if they want to play certain games. But most people own a console because they want a console. Same as with the Switch, people didn't want a WiiU even if it had MK8 but they want a Switch and when they have one they will buy MK8 for it. People will still want the PS6 even if every game is on PC.

 

[BlackTron]

What makes you have this thought process? I know a lot of people say this, but no one every explains to me why they believe it'll be the end for Sony. It's way more people in this world scared of anything PC and will always go for consoles. Especially for its convenience. Sony will be getting money from a segment of gamers (PC) that was once a closed market for them so I fail to see the downsides here.

I've been explaining it in a few posts in this thread, tbh I feel like if I kept going it would be overkill lol.

 

[Midn1ght]

GOW translated into less than a million sales in 5 months.

Factually wrong.

It’s for FY21 (literally on the chart you posted) meaning GOW sold 971k In roughly 75 days and not 5 months like you and many others are trying to convey.

Horizon peaked at 56,557 and sold 2,398,000 copies in a year and a half.

Spiderman peaked at 66,446. 10k above Horizon.

It’s selling decently but you guys go ahead and keep conveniently spreading misinformations to feed your broken argumentation against PC.

 

[Tiago Rodrigues]

Factually wrong.

It’s for FY21 (literally on the chart you posted “As of March 22”) meaning GOW sold 971k In roughly 75 days and not 5 months like you and many others are trying to convey.

Horizon peaked at 56,557 and sold 2,398,000 copies in a year and a half.

Spiderman peaked at 66,446. 10k above Horizon.

It’s selling decently but you guys go ahead and keep conveniently spreading misinformations to feed your broken argumentation against PC.

Not only that but all of those games had already sold over 20M copies on Playstation consoles by the time they were released on PC. Spider-Man probably over 25M. We need to stop treating these PC releases like day one releases because they aren't.

This is Sony making some extra bucks with old games and testing the waters basically. They are barely serious about PC releases for now.

 

[SmokedMeat]

Say what you want, but Nintendo is wiping the floor because of their absolutely meticulous brand management that treats their IP like the Disney Vault.

If you didn't need to buy Nintendo for BOTW, you wouldn't have bought 15 other third party games on Switch too, games that big N don't even need to make, they just take the cut.

The picture is bigger than the total aggregate sales of an individual first party game. Imagine if BOTW released day and date on PC. JFC that's their most valuable asset, just given away. It would have been great for gamers....that afternoon, and then terrible for them later when Nintendo can't fund making as many games anymore because they screwed up.

You're expecting Sony to take this kind of damage and like it.

I can’t tell if this is master class trolling or sheer Sony fanboy stupidity.

 

[GreatnessRD]

I've been explaining it in a few posts in this thread, tbh I feel like if I kept going it would be overkill lol.

I'll go take a look see.

 

[BlackTron]

I can’t tell if this is master class trolling or sheer Sony fanboy stupidity.

Thanks for your nuanced counter opinions.

I'm not a Sony fanboy though. As I've said elsewhere in this thread, I grew up on Nintendo/Sega and hated Sony when my beloved Dreamcast got destroyed lol. I also hate its controller so that turned me off on using mine any more than I had to for games I REALLY wanted to play (until lately I finally got an Astro).

I have a Series X and don't want a PS5 until after a hardware refresh. So I'm the smallest Sony fanboy here.

It seems to me that a LOT of people really think first party games are made ONLY for the sales of that game. That there is no bigger strategy at work. If they really wanted to they could have new games day and date now, it's not a resource bottleneck, I think the games were carefully chosen for a reason and they know that straying from their current strategy would be a mistake.

 

[Torrent of Pork]

You might as well launch them day and date. A large number of PC gamers won't play literal free games on a free platform if it isn't Steam, nobody is going to drop $500 to play games on a PS5 when they have equivalent or superior hardware.

 

[quest]

You might as well launch them day and date. A large number of PC gamers won't play literal free games on a free platform if it isn't Steam, nobody is going to drop $500 to play games on a PS5 when they have equivalent or superior hardware.

Considering we are seeing less than 1% of the 120 plus million steam users buying these games near launch. I see no reason to delay the version that actually sells at full price to wait on a port. Call me when we start seeing sales in the several million month one on steam. Until then it is like the phone market users who love to spend on hardware not so much on software.

 

[sol_bad]

You might as well launch them day and date. A large number of PC gamers won't play literal free games on a free platform if it isn't Steam, nobody is going to drop $500 to play games on a PS5 when they have equivalent or superior hardware.

Sony still need a reason to buy their hardware. Day and date on PC would undermine that requirement.

 

[Graciaus]

Considering we are seeing less than 1% of the 120 plus million steam users buying these games near launch. I see no reason to delay the version that actually sells at full price to wait on a port. Call me when we start seeing sales in the several million month one on steam. Until then it is like the phone market users who love to spend on hardware not so much on software.

They also haven't released a single game I would buy yet.

 

[Icymanipulator]

6 months is too short. 1-2 years would be the smart move. The console needs time to soak up the majority of its lifetime sales. Honestly think 6 months would be foolish and hurt Sony.

 

[Panajev2001a]

If they do go down this path, I think that's the beginning of the end for their brand.

I say this as someone who would be happy not to have to get a PS5 and have no allegiance as a "die hard Sony fan" whatsoever. I grew up on Nintendo/Sega and despised Sony while they plowed Dreamcast.

So it would not piss me off personally at all if their games went to PC day one. But objectively this is a terrible move trading short term gains for long term problems.

Their current plan is not stopping to sell hardware and get all third party providers in a giant subscription plan so removing incentives to own their consoles would remove a lot of revenue streams (how much money they make not just from HW overall but mostly on third party software and DLC’s). Now if you were looking forward to stopping selling consoles HW or deprioritise it while betting the farm of a cable TV like/Netflix like subscription service then well…

 

[DenchDeckard]

As soon as Sony does the math and sees that PC is gaining traction to the point that not launching games sooner on PC is affecting the overall number they could sell, they will move the launch dates closer or day and date.

I personally believe there isn't a lot of overlap of fans that double dip. I'm a huge god of war fan but I haven't bought it on PC yet, same for spiderman. I buy all my playstation exclusives on disk and trade them in after completion, then I'll rebuy digitally in a sale if I really loved them or have the urge to play a game again, which is rare for me.

Spiderman was massive and I don't think that playstation number would have really been affected by PC...but I do think the PC version sales would have been huge too if it launched within say 6 months of the ps version.

 

[Wohc]

Thank you for your opinion.

My advice to you is to not manage a game company.

Day1 will happen and the decicion makers are smarter than you and me.

 

[tusharngf]

started the game and finished the fisk tower mission. Amazing game ! i missed this game on ps pro.

 

[Wohc]

Sony makes their money off 3rd party licensing. They make games themselves to have more exclusives, so people buy their console and 3rd party games on their system.

I literally said that in the quoted post.

It doesn't make sense to release games day 1 on PC because it's a short term outlook on profit and it hurts their brand. Especially considering they can't market the game as "Playstation exclusive".

Like i said, consoles and pcs are two pair of shoes. There are millions of gamers who don't want a pc or don't have the space or money for it. The pc gamers that are willing to buy a console for an exclusive game are not good customers to Sony, because they usually don't buy 3rd party games or want to pay for online gaming when they already have online gaming for free and can get 3rd party games much cheaper and play them in better quality on their pc. It's actually better for Sony to keep them on the pc.

Then there are pc players who are only interested in the lastest games and don't want to play a 3 years old game. With day1 releases and Sony's massive marketing they could sell millions of copies like they do on their consoles.

Who cares about "PlayStation exclusive"? That's just a fanboy thing and those are the minority. Ask 1000 casual players to name 5 PlayStation exclusives and more than 90% couldn't answer that.

Sony wouild lose a few people to pc for sure, but the sales on pc would make up for it easily and it wouldn't hurt the brand, it would help it growing. A day1 pc Spider-Man with Sony's marketing would have sold 25-30 million copies on PS+Pc and more sold games = good for the brand.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Sony wouild lose a few people to pc for sure, but the sales on pc would make up for it easily and it wouldn't hurt the brand, it would help it growing. A day1 pc Spider-Man with Sony's marketing would have sold 25-30 million copies on PS+Pc and more sold games = good for the brand.

No, it would not replace lost sales of third parties on their platform and they know it. They will care about brand only that way as you say if and only if they are ready to stop HW manufacturing or deprioritise it. They made gazillions more through their walled garden than they would be making extending to PC and their strategy so far is working: let the studio work on console exclusives and then take some time with one of their expert PC porting teams to take it to PC and take advantage of the ecosystem there.

Good luck getting PC players subbed to PS+ while the PC players buying a PS5 for its games and/or form factor may.

You will see some people even double dip.

 

[Wohc]

No, it would not replace lost sales of third parties on their platform and they know it. They will care about brand only that way as you say if and only if they are ready to stop HW manufacturing or deprioritise it. They made gazillions more through their walled garden than they would be making extending to PC and their strategy so far is working: let the studio work on console exclusives and then take some time with one of their expert PC porting teams to take it to PC and take advantage of the ecosystem there.

Good luck getting PC players subbed to PS+ while the PC players buying a PS5 for its games and/or form factor may.

You will see some people even double dip.

The big question is, how many people would buy a pc instead of a console? I don't think too many. Look at Microsoft, they are still selling a good amount of consoles consoles with day1 pc games since years and coming from a disastrous gen. And like i said, they will permanently sell much more games that make out for the lost console buyers.
Guess we have to wait, but i'm 99,999% sure we will see day1 pc releases, they are just doing it slowly and it will take a couple of years.

 

[Panajev2001a]

The big question is, how many people would buy a pc instead of a console? I don't think too many. Look at Microsoft, they are still selling a good amount of consoles consoles with day1 pc games since years and coming from a disastrous gen.

MS fundamentally has stopped caring about selling many or few consoles or games in the long term and to be fair, I think they decided to spend their way out of having to compete on the same terms (the $100+ Billion they have been bringing in is not console money).

It is in MS’s best interest gamers’ perceived games value continues to drop, games accelerate to a F2P/GaaS model, and for games becoming a TV like thingy they feed off of a subscription they control and they get DLC royalty cuts from. They believe in it strongly enough to essentially open the company warchest and outspend the competition till they drop out of the race (ironically this is defended as a success of free market competition, David vs Goliath, incumbent vs new comer, etc… ).

And like i said, they will permanently sell much more games that make out for the lost console buyers.

I disagree… PS+ revenue + third party game royalties on full games and DLC’s/MTX are a lot of money. Also, I doubt the PC audience (mobile phone audience is even worse) would welcome or accept game prices as high as the console gamers do (and that is actually a bad thing for a whole lot of games as it pushes further and further in the direction mobile gaming went in where customers stopped giving games or apps value… apps are mostly all subscription based too now, but Apple not allowing app developers to sell major version updates helped make something bad worse).

 

[ChoosableOne]

Bloodborne would break 150k concurrent players easily even at 60 USD

Nah, I don't think so.

 

[rofif]

Nah, I don't think so.

Are you kidding me? After Elden Ring success, Bloodborne would break the records of sony games on steam easily

 

[yazenov]

I'm still surprised Sony is fine with their single player games being cracked day 1, seems very out of character for them, given their past.

To me this will obviously push them even more into the direction of GaaS games, pretty much the only thing I feared from all the PC ports.

I'm sure Sony are in the testing the water phase right now with their PC releases.

When their internal research comes out and if it shows that piracy significantly affected the sales numbers, they will implement some kind of anti piracy measure such as Denuvo.

 

[YeulEmeralda]

The number of people who have a high end gaming PC and a PS5 are a lot lower than neogaf thinks.

Steam doesn't canibalize console sales it is an extra revenue stream.

 

[SmokedMeat]

Considering we are seeing less than 1% of the 120 plus million steam users buying these games near launch. I see no reason to delay the version that actually sells at full price to wait on a port. Call me when we start seeing sales in the several million month one on steam. Until then it is like the phone market users who love to spend on hardware not so much on software.

I’m sure the stand alone McDonalds sells more Big Macs then the McDonalds surrounded by a Burger King, Wendy’s, Chik-Fila, and several highly rated restaurants.

 

[Spyxos]

Are you kidding me? After Elden Ring success, Bloodborne would break the records of sony games on steam easily

After all these years, Bloodborne only sold 2 million copies. No idea why you think it will be suddenly huge on PC.

 

[BlackTron]

Day1 will happen and the decicion makers are smarter than you and me.

Why haven't they done day 1 already?

The decision makers have selected their lineup and timing of releases very carefully -because they're smart people.

If they're so smart now, I don't understand why we should expect them to pivot to stupid later.

I think people just PERSONALLY want day one games on PC because it would benefit THEM. So that vantage point is blinding their objectivity completely.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Are you kidding me? After Elden Ring success, Bloodborne would break the records of sony games on steam easily

Yeah, it would not at that price. I see PC users as more prepared to pay for games than mobile users, but not as much as console users (it is not actually a good thing IMHO when the perceived value of game drops more and more).

 

[Guilty_AI]

Yeah, it would not at that price. I see PC users as more prepared to pay for games than mobile users, but not as much as console users (it is not actually a good thing IMHO when the perceived value of game drops more and more).

didn't elden ring broke records on steam while being full priced tho

 

[Wohc]

Why haven't they done day 1 already?

The decision makers have selected their lineup and timing of releases very carefully -because they're smart people.

If they're so smart now, I don't understand why we should expect them to pivot to stupid later.

I already said that. Because i think they want to have sold a solid number of PS5s first and they especially don't want to make it while PS5 is still rare, because they don't want too many people to switch to Pc. They also don't want to completely piss off the die hard fanboys, that's why i think we will see 12 months or 6 monts first. Time will tell, but i'm pretty damn sure we will see day1 in a few years.

 

[BlackTron]

I already said that. Because i think they want to have sold a solid number of PS5s first and they especially don't want to make it while PS5 is still rare, because they don't want too many people to switch to Pc. They also don't want to completely piss off the die hard fanboys, that's why i think we will see 12 months or 6 monts first. Time will tell, but i'm pretty damn sure we will see day1 in a few years.

So Sony wants to sell PS5s, and that's keeping them from Day 1. But that will change once they've sold "enough" PS5, then we will have day 1 games.

We're just going to have to agree that we apparently don't make ANY sense to each other. Sorry.

 

[SmokedMeat]

After all these years, Bloodborne only sold 2 million copies. No idea why you think it will be suddenly huge on PC.

Different audience. Souls games are big on PC.

 

[Wohc]

So Sony wants to sell PS5s, and that's keeping them from Day 1. But that will change once they've sold "enough" PS5, then we will have day 1 games.

We're just going to have to agree that we apparently don't make ANY sense to each other. Sorry.

Pretty simple. What is a huge reason to buy a specifitc hardware? People buy what their friends have, so a healthy pool of sold Ps5 is great. Sony wants to sell as many PS5 as possible and also the juicy and easy pc money.
We can agree that we disagree, but mark my words: Day1 in let's say 4 years.

 

[AlteredForms]

Sony is about to dump the entire PS5 catalogue on Steam and all the PC gamers are rejoicing. Plus Valve will be filling their pockets doing nothing lol.