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Star Trek: Strange New Worlds

Claus Grimhildyr

Vincit qui se vincit
There is a very good reason why there is a "hate parade" for Discovery (and Picard). It is terribly written and insults the franchise/fanbase to such an extent that you are wondering if they even care about Star Trek at all.

This could be good. Hell, I *want* it to be good. I want to see Star Trek come back as a pioneering show. However, at this point South Park has more reverence and better writing for progressive ideals and stronger morals than anything Trek released since the end of Enterprise.
 
There is a very good reason why there is a "hate parade" for Discovery (and Picard). It is terribly written and insults the franchise/fanbase to such an extent that you are wondering if they even care about Star Trek at all.

This could be good. Hell, I *want* it to be good. I want to see Star Trek come back as a pioneering show. However, at this point South Park has more reverence and better writing for progressive ideals and stronger morals than anything Trek released since the end of Enterprise.
I just recently subscribed to Paramount and have only seen the first few episodes of Discovery, so I can't really comment on this. All I can say is so far it isn't that bad, although I can tell they are stuffing it with unnecessary action set pieces to appeal to a dumber audience. I really want Picard to be good. I've heard bad things though.
 

strange headache

Fluctuat nec mergitur
I know hope dies last, but at this point people are willfully setting themselves up for disappointment.

 

Ulysses 31

Member
There is a very good reason why there is a "hate parade" for Discovery (and Picard). It is terribly written and insults the franchise/fanbase to such an extent that you are wondering if they even care about Star Trek at all.
There's a video of Kurtzman(the writer) on the SDCC panel saying that ST is a platform for certain messages and less so to promote ST.

 
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Sosokrates

Report me if I continue to console war
I find the kirk era (or just before, pike) and TNG era, are the best trek time periods.

I enjoyed Discovery but the stark trek identity is most recognised in the 2 periods mentioned above. Why make all that extra work starting from scratch?

I dont mind if they try to inject woke stuff, as long as the story, acting and direction is good.
 

Claus Grimhildyr

Vincit qui se vincit
I find the kirk era (or just before, pike) and TNG era, are the best trek time periods.

I enjoyed Discovery but the stark trek identity is most recognised in the 2 periods mentioned above. Why make all that extra work starting from scratch?

I dont mind if they try to inject woke stuff, as long as the story, acting and direction is good.

Slacktivist writing literally means that there is no good story, acting, or direction. That is the definition of "woke" (Slacktivist writing).
 

Sosokrates

Report me if I continue to console war
There's a video of Kurtzman(the writer) on the SDCC panel saying that ST is a platform for certain messages and less so to promote ST.


It doesn't include Kurtzman full quote, he doesn't say that star treks main goal is to promote BLM etc.

Also TNG was a vessel for political issues, such as an attack on religion and genders.
 
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Jennings

Member
I want this show to be the best thing possible. I have low expectations, but it's got potential and I want it to succeed. What I don't want is another serial format. Give me stand alone exploration-of-the-week episodes.
 

Sosokrates

Report me if I continue to console war
I want this show to be the best thing possible. I have low expectations, but it's got potential and I want it to succeed. What I don't want is another serial format. Give me stand alone exploration-of-the-week episodes.
I prefer stand alone episodes too.

Which is funny because a lotof people praised DS9 for its serial story.
 

BadBurger

Is 'That Pure Potato'
It feels like they've been talking about this show for years and yet it's not even due to release until May?

Anyway, I am looking forward to it. Discovery has too much dumb action for my taste, and while I could only bear three episodes of Picard, it felt like they were aggressively trying to chase away TNG fans with the poor writing and Discovery-like tone. Word is this is supposed to be more like TNG so fingers are crossed.
 

Andyliini

Member
It doesn't include Kurtzman full quote, he doesn't say that star treks main goal is to promote BLM etc.

Also TNG was a vessel for political issues, such as an attack on religion and genders.
I have not seen this video, and don't plan to, but I know this channel, and I can't expect anything less. This is a similar channel as Fandom Menace and Midnight's Edge, who share lies and clickbait's as facts and insider info. All for clicks, because they know they'll catch people who want to believe this stuff. And it's working still.
 

ManaByte

Member
What I don't want is another serial format
They’ve already said it’s episodic. It’s like the middle DS9 seasons where there is an overall story in the background but the show is still episodic with individual stories as each episode and not just 10 hours broken into episodes.
 
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DeafTourette

Older than air but younger than the foundations of the earth
I just recently subscribed to Paramount and have only seen the first few episodes of Discovery, so I can't really comment on this. All I can say is so far it isn't that bad, although I can tell they are stuffing it with unnecessary action set pieces to appeal to a dumber audience. I really want Picard to be good. I've heard bad things though.

Why not make up your own mind? You're doing what so many say not to: following people who have their own opinions or don't even watch something and STILL have an opinion on that something they haven't seen.

If you haven't been turned off from the first few episodes of Discovery... Why do you let others influence you? Are you not an independent thinker?

I only saw the 3rd season in total and now on season 4... I'll eventually wrap back around to the first 2 seasons...

Picard was actually good. Just don't expect TNG part 2... It's Picard later in life and not about discovering strange new Worlds and new civilizations. It's more a personal story with a fair amount of action. A lot of Picard reminded me of First Contact (horror) and some of the lighter TNG/DS9 episodes. A big mystery must be solved...

Just don't go in expecting TNG... It's its own thing.
 

6502

Member
I prefer stand alone episodes too.

Which is funny because a lotof people praised DS9 for its serial story.
Ds9 had a decent story, cast and characters.

To be fair, they are the only 3 things modern trek gets wrong.

(To be fair, lower decks is good).
 
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AJUMP23

Gold Member
I watched the first episode of the new season of Discovery yesterday. Season 4. It was boring, and just uninteresting.
 

SJRB

Gold Member
I hope they put more thought and effort into this show than they did in this poster.
 

Claus Grimhildyr

Vincit qui se vincit
It doesn't include Kurtzman full quote, he doesn't say that star treks main goal is to promote BLM etc.

Also TNG was a vessel for political issues, such as an attack on religion and genders.

TNG (and Trek as a whole prior to the end of Enterprise) was about telling a story first with morals. Not preaching. Meanwhile modern day Trek is about soap box preaching first and foremost with some action set pieces. They don’t give a toss about making well defined characters. That is typical of any “slacktivist” bent writing.
Whos writing are you referring to?

Because Alex Kurtzman has written plenty of good stuff, including the Abrams treks, mi3 and the island.

I think we are having a misunderstanding here. You stated that you don’t mind if they inject “woke” stuff into something as long as they have good characters, story, direction. Any writer, any director who tries to do that always fails. Even if they are amazingly talented, they will fail because Slacktivist writing immediately ruins any story. It ruins characters. It ruins direction. It is literally impossible to have a “woke” show be good.

Some mental midgets like to claim that Trek has always been “woke”, but that isn’t true. It was progressive, it had morals, and it focused on telling good, engaging stories with a few missteps (Spock’s Brain for example). “Woke” means it is slacktivist writing. It is inherently, at its core, not progressive. It is regressive. That is the point I am making.
 

jason10mm

Member
I hope they put more thought and effort into this show than they did in this poster.
Agreed, that poster is taking the "Wagon Train in spaaaaaaaace" thing a bit too far.

Is it really so hard to recapture TOS and TNG? I don't see what is so difficult about an episodic ensemble show discovering new worlds that are thinly veiled current social/scientific concepts. Has Orville scared them that badly they don't even want to try to compete?
 

Sosokrates

Report me if I continue to console war
TNG (and Trek as a whole prior to the end of Enterprise) was about telling a story first with morals. Not preaching. Meanwhile modern day Trek is about soap box preaching first and foremost with some action set pieces. They don’t give a toss about making well defined characters. That is typical of any “slacktivist” bent writing.


I think we are having a misunderstanding here. You stated that you don’t mind if they inject “woke” stuff into something as long as they have good characters, story, direction. Any writer, any director who tries to do that always fails. Even if they are amazingly talented, they will fail because Slacktivist writing immediately ruins any story. It ruins characters. It ruins direction. It is literally impossible to have a “woke” show be good.

Some mental midgets like to claim that Trek has always been “woke”, but that isn’t true. It was progressive, it had morals, and it focused on telling good, engaging stories with a few missteps (Spock’s Brain for example). “Woke” means it is slacktivist writing. It is inherently, at its core, not progressive. It is regressive. That is the point I am making.

It Depends on what you consider woke.

I dont consider promoting racial equality to be woke.
Its not like they gonna have characters chanting "black lives matter"
 

ManaByte

Member
TNG (and Trek as a whole prior to the end of Enterprise) was about telling a story first with morals. Not preaching. Meanwhile modern day Trek is about soap box preaching first and foremost with some action set pieces. They don’t give a toss about making well defined characters. That is typical of any “slacktivist” bent writing.
Plato’s Stepchildren was so preachy when it aired in 1968 whole areas of the country refused to air the episode.
 

Claus Grimhildyr

Vincit qui se vincit
It Depends on what you consider woke.

I dont consider promoting racial equality to be woke.
Its not like they gonna have characters chanting "black lives matter"

”Woke” literally means Slacktivist. There is no debate on that.

Racial equality is not being “woke”. That is just being a normal human being. That is a normal thing that 99% of the world already believes.
 

Sosokrates

Report me if I continue to console war
”Woke” literally means Slacktivist. There is no debate on that.

Racial equality is not being “woke”. That is just being a normal human being. That is a normal thing that 99% of the world already believes.
You could say a lot of tv shows and films is "slacktivist", its a pretty broad term.

I mean the federation puts in a considerable amounts of resources into weapon development. Does that mean its trying to push the military industrial complex cause?

If your going to say star trek is pushing woke things, some examples would be helpful.

I know discovery had slavery and even worse then slavery, because they would eat the slaves (Kelpien).

There was also homosexuality shown more so then ever before in trek.

And I think was even the story of trill symbiosis which seemed like a parellel to transexuals.

The slavery thing is pretty conclusive amogst both political spectrums.

The worry about the gay and trans stuff is if the creators are putting it in there just to try and make a political statement. Maybe they were, but it was done quite well and the overall story didnt suffer.

It has also happend before when riker wanted to bone that asexual alien 😆
 
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Claus Grimhildyr

Vincit qui se vincit
Why have we got all this reductive, prequel, ret-con shit, when they could be making Star Trek: The Third Generation?

That would require them to have some form of originality and we can see what they consider "original" with Discovery. A fucking disaster.
 

Pagusas

Elden Member
Anyone else HATE how these new series are filmed? I liked the look of DS9/TNG/TNG Movies, I wish we'd see a modern rendition of that, instead of this cheap basterdization of the 2009 Star Trek look. I thought 2009 looked amazing for what it was, but that look should stay in that universe, all these TV directors are just making cheap imitations of it without the Hollywood budget or skill.

Give me more wide shots, less shallow focus, more steady handed film making and less music video zero attention span editing.

I also hate the constantly sterile bright white ship environments, like they've never been lived in and never were meant to be lived in.
 
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Rest

All these years later I still chuckle at what a fucking moron that guy is.
I find the kirk era (or just before, pike) and TNG era, are the best trek time periods.

I enjoyed Discovery but the stark trek identity is most recognised in the 2 periods mentioned above. Why make all that extra work starting from scratch?

I dont mind if they try to inject woke stuff, as long as the story, acting and direction is good.
"Inject?" Star Trek has always been woke. Kirk kissed a black woman on TV in the 60's. Riker fucked an alien tranny. Dax had an open lesbian romance. Star Trek has always pointed at taboos and asked society why it doesn't accept people who are different.

There's no injection needed, this has always been a part of Star Trek. Gene Roddenberry even addressed cultural biases as insipid as male baldness, when an interviewer asked him why Picard hadn't been treated with a cure for baldness, Roddenberry told him people in the future wouldn't care about insignificant differences like that.

There is no Star Trek without "woke stuff."
 
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strange headache

Fluctuat nec mergitur
"Inject?" Star Trek has always been woke. Kirk kissed a black woman on TV in the 60's. Riker fucked an alien tranny. Dax had an open lesbian romance. Star Trek has always pointed at taboos and asked society why it doesn't accept people who are different.

There's no injection needed, this has always been a part of Star Trek. Gene Roddenberry even addressed cultural biases as insipid as male baldness, when an interviewer asked him why Picard hadn't been treated with a cure for baldness, Roddenberry told him people in the future wouldn't care about insignificant differences like that.

There is no Star Trek without "woke stuff."

Dumbest comment I've read in a long time. Trek has always been about universal humanistic values and enlightenment, which are pretty much the opposite of being woke.
Kindly f*ck off with this revisionist bullcrap!
 
"Inject?" Star Trek has always been woke. Kirk kissed a black woman on TV in the 60's. Riker fucked an alien tranny. Dax had an open lesbian romance. Star Trek has always pointed at taboos and asked society why it doesn't accept people who are different.

There's no injection needed, this has always been a part of Star Trek. Gene Roddenberry even addressed cultural biases as insipid as male baldness, when an interviewer asked him why Picard hadn't been treated with a cure for baldness, Roddenberry told him people in the future wouldn't care about insignificant differences like that.

There is no Star Trek without "woke stuff."

Woke is regressive, not progressive.

 

Batiman

Member
Dumbest comment I've read in a long time. Trek has always been about universal humanistic values and enlightenment, which are pretty much the opposite of being woke.
Kindly f*ck off with this revisionist bullcrap!
What’s actually wrong about his comment though?
 

Claus Grimhildyr

Vincit qui se vincit
What’s actually wrong about his comment though?

"Woke" writing, aka slacktivist-bent writing, is *not* progressive. Classic Trek was about carrying morals, pushing progressive ideals while still maintaining strong characters, memorable story lines, and multi-faceted personalities. None of this exists in slacktivist-bent writing. No matter how much folks like Mana and Rest try to delude themselves into thinking otherwise.

The writers in today's Trek don't want to tell stories or have characters that are three dimensional. They want to stand on their soapboxes, preaching to the audience with, if we are lucky, heavy-handed symbolism. Most of the times it's just blatant and blunt screeching. Treating the audience as if they are the ones in the wrong. That they are stupid, that they need to "be better". Its infantile writing at its finest.
 

Batiman

Member
"Woke" writing, aka slacktivist-bent writing, is *not* progressive. Classic Trek was about carrying morals, pushing progressive ideals while still maintaining strong characters, memorable story lines, and multi-faceted personalities. None of this exists in slacktivist-bent writing. No matter how much folks like Mana and Rest try to delude themselves into thinking otherwise.

The writers in today's Trek don't want to tell stories or have characters that are three dimensional. They want to stand on their soapboxes, preaching to the audience with, if we are lucky, heavy-handed symbolism. Most of the times it's just blatant and blunt screeching. Treating the audience as if they are the ones in the wrong. That they are stupid, that they need to "be better". Its infantile writing at its finest.
I see what you’re saying but it was what people would describe as woke nowadays. I’m not saying that’s what classic trek as “about” though. I haven’t watched any of the newer shows though so I have nk say in them
 
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strange headache

Fluctuat nec mergitur
What’s actually wrong about his comment though?
Promoting values and ideals is not woke. Promoting woke values and ideals is woke.
People don't take issue with Trek touching on societal issues, what is being criticized are the kind of values that are being advanced in NUtrek.

For example:
Classic Trek teaches you to value people no matter their identity. NUtrek puts identity above all. Classic Trek is all about color-blindness, NUtrek is all about race. Classic Trek puts reason above emotion, NUtrek pretty much does the opposite. Classic Trek values merit, discipline, professional self-control and reasoned decision-making. NUtrek on the other hand is overtly hysterical, nothing is earned, everybody is entitled.

Classic Trek promoted universalistic ideals, touching on sensitive topics without cultivating an 'us vs. them' mentality. NUtrek is all about antagonistic virtue signaling through the creation of clichéd bogeymen.
 

Corrik

Member
I just recently subscribed to Paramount and have only seen the first few episodes of Discovery, so I can't really comment on this. All I can say is so far it isn't that bad, although I can tell they are stuffing it with unnecessary action set pieces to appeal to a dumber audience. I really want Picard to be good. I've heard bad things though.
As someone who just got through the 1st season, at times I thought it was good and at times bad. But, wow, the finale was awful. Like, extremely awful.
 

Claus Grimhildyr

Vincit qui se vincit
Promoting values and ideals is not woke. Promoting woke values and ideals is woke.
People don't take issue with Trek touching on societal issues, what is being criticized are the kind of values that are being advanced in NUtrek.

For example:
Classic Trek teaches you to value people no matter their identity. NUtrek puts identity above all. Classic Trek is all about color-blindness, NUtrek is all about race. Classic Trek puts reason above emotion, NUtrek pretty much does the opposite. Classic Trek values merit, discipline, professional self-control and reasoned decision-making. NUtrek on the other hand is overtly hysterical, nothing is earned, everybody is entitled.

Classic Trek promoted universalistic ideals, touching on sensitive topics without cultivating an 'us vs. them' mentality. NUtrek is all about antagonistic virtue signaling through the creation of clichéd bogeymen.
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