Explosive Zombie
Banned
I live in a world where people think the Last Jedi is cynical and nihilistic probably the same people who praised films like rogue one and revenge of the sith last
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Star Wars IX Open Spoilers, Leaks, Trash Talk, etc. (***Warning SPOILERS***)
- Thread starter #Phonepunk#
- Start date
- Spoilers
Darkmakaimura
Can You Imagine What SureAI Is Going To Do With Garfield?
Got the Visual Dictionary in the mail today. Really weird how they kept Palpatine out. No info at all on him.
They mention aliens from the old West End Games Darkstryder campaign btw. The Gree and Aing-Tii.
Also somebody asked about the Death Star wreckage and they provide.
They mention aliens from the old West End Games Darkstryder campaign btw. The Gree and Aing-Tii.
Also somebody asked about the Death Star wreckage and they provide.
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MacReady13
Member
I've always liked the prequels. The hate for them was and continues to be over blown.
mcjmetroid
Member
Ya that trilogy was the shits overall.
Force awakens: Polished movie but does nothing new
The last jedi: very messy movie, whoever edited it should be shot
Rise of the Skywalker: an entire film of damage control. It was far more polished than what came before it though.
This was very badly mismanaged and I do believe it's purely a management issue with this one.
Force awakens: Polished movie but does nothing new
The last jedi: very messy movie, whoever edited it should be shot
Rise of the Skywalker: an entire film of damage control. It was far more polished than what came before it though.
This was very badly mismanaged and I do believe it's purely a management issue with this one.
Shizumapower
Member
Yoda, is that you?
prag16
Banned
I would think your series of posts in here are an elaborate troll if I didn't know better. You are trying way too hard. The lengths and mental gymnastics some people will go through to justify to themselves the idea of "TLJ as a masterpiece" are absolutely unreal.
Yeeeep.
This is the perfect way to put it. I wouldn't say I absolutely "LOVED" the prequels when they came out. But I liked them, and I still like them now.
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
I assume that's direct at me, but I'm not much of a fan of either of those films, to be honest.
How was The Last Jedi not cynical and nihilistic? It was a cinematic exercise in critically deconstructing the genuine sincerity that was core to the feeling of Star Wars.
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Gp1
Member
It's just me or thats clearly a case were bullying made the bullied improve? lol
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PanzerAzel
Member
sol_bad
Member
Much like the ST.
The new movies are more expertly crafted, shot well, has great actors and have great themes. They are better made films than the PT in every conceivable way.
Vicetrailia
Member
It's supposed to be hidden in a rare and exclusive artifact, not practical.
It's just your average Rosetta Stone unlocking the key to a hidden dungeon or whatever. It's cliche but makes sense.
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Doczu
Member
Strunk i was, sober i am now.
Doczu
Member
No, that would be Revenge of the Sith. No joke.
VertigoOA
Banned
They criticized the prequel lightsaber duels as being overly choreographed...
Man fuck that... they were fun as hell to watch. The sequel trilogy battles sucked. The OT has them built around dialogue and it worked because Vader carried that shit easily.
George’s criticism about them about “not doing anything new” is valid. The fact that it’s true he gave them the book of the whills story is kinda blowing my mind right now. I remember when that was just some myth... but it’s real. Sigh.
Man fuck that... they were fun as hell to watch. The sequel trilogy battles sucked. The OT has them built around dialogue and it worked because Vader carried that shit easily.
George’s criticism about them about “not doing anything new” is valid. The fact that it’s true he gave them the book of the whills story is kinda blowing my mind right now. I remember when that was just some myth... but it’s real. Sigh.
NeoGiffer
Member
Explosive Zombie
Banned
The themes of the film are about how anyone can be special, learning from your past failures and becoming a better person, self-reliance, finding something to believe in and winning a war by protecting what's important as opposed to destroying and of course that your deeds are what inspires a new generation. These are not cynical or nihilistic themes for a movie to have.
decisions
Member
I believe yesterday you claimed that everyone understands TLJ (while personally insulting me too but I’ll continue to ignore that). If you think the message of the movie is cynicism and nihilism (???) then guess what, you don’t understand the movie. The movie is about humility, the power of people to inspire others, the potential for anyone to be great, and most of all, hope.
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Explosive Zombie
Banned
Yeah, people can hate TLJ all they want but if anything the themes were too plain, it engaged in literal theme speak with Rose and Yoda, for instance. These ideas aren't deep or hard to find in it, in fact you can easily use the way it treats the audience like they're dumb as an argument against it, it's just weird when people can't even see what it's saying still... maybe audiences are dumb?
LaughingStock
Member
Rogue one is well made, but boring as fuck.
Sequel trilogy has shit story, no planning but a good cast. Its biggest sin was wasting this cast and the chance to reunite the old guard one last time.
Prequel trilogy is garbage. But it's so cringe it's fun and at least George had a vision. Revenge of the sith ain't that bad.
Sequel trilogy has shit story, no planning but a good cast. Its biggest sin was wasting this cast and the chance to reunite the old guard one last time.
Prequel trilogy is garbage. But it's so cringe it's fun and at least George had a vision. Revenge of the sith ain't that bad.
Doczu
Member
People bitching about the lightsaber battles in the prequels can't fathom the fact that you have a 1000+ years old Order that spend their whole life perfecting their force use and lightsaber techniques - one lightsaber, two, double bladed. Many styles to boot.
After that you have ony green dude on his death bed, one burned black leather fetishist with prosthetics, a uncle type geriatric dude and a dude whos better in magic than saber combat. Who can teach you all those flashy jumps and techniques?
Or maybe the movie is just crap, and inventing themes to excuse it lack of quality is depressing and sad.
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
I understand that it was Rian Johnson's intent to make the movie all about learning from past failures, but I also believe he himself failed spectacularly at doing so in a convincing or believable way. I call it cynical and nihilistic because I believe that characterizes the approach that Johnson took. To me it was like he had an idea for an original movie that explored the themes you mentioned and decided to simply apply it all to the 8th Star Wars movie without a care in the world (or perhaps an active disdain) for the characters, lore, and internal logic that had been established up to that point.
Honestly, The Last Jedi may have worked as the introductory film to this new trilogy (with some changes, of course), but it made little sense as the sequel to TFA and what we knew about our characters by the end of that film. In the end, TLJ came across as a kind of vanity project for Johnson to explore some themes he had banging around in his mind with little care for where the story was going before he came on board or where it might go after his film ended. With how ROS turned out, I suspect even more that this is the truth of things.
Sorry, I didn't mean to insult you personally. I just thought what you were saying was ridiculous: namely that people generally don't understand storytelling or themes, don't want to accept Star Wars progressing beyond the OT, or that the deconstruction of Star Wars in TLJ was necessary for the franchise to be meaningful beyond the OT.
I know what the film's intended themes were. What I'm saying is that the director's approach and what actually transpired on screen in service of his attempt to convey those themes ultimately came across as cynical and nihilistic.
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Darkmakaimura
Can You Imagine What SureAI Is Going To Do With Garfield?
O
It's my least favorite SW movie. Decent flick but not a good SW movie.
I haven't seen Solo. Is that any better?
It really was a dull movie except for the final battle.
It's my least favorite SW movie. Decent flick but not a good SW movie.
I haven't seen Solo. Is that any better?
prag16
Banned
I was about to type a long winded response, but then saw this one, which covers just about everything.
Yeah, he had the themes he was going for. In fact he bludgeoned us with them. The problem is it just didn't work for a lot of people. Because the way it all came together showed no regard for the established world building and internal consistency of not just the first 6 movies, but also 7.
All in all, we basically got Star Wars: RJ's Narcissistic and Pretentious (but still somehow ham-fisted) Art House of Self Indulgence.
I guess that worked for some people. Cool. But it didn't work for Star Wars, and apparently most long time fans. It's not necessarily an awful movie despite some of its internal issues, but it's an awful Star Wars movie.
#Phonepunk#
Banned
been thinking back on this third film and it really grows on me.
even the idea of a lot of people not liking it and saying it is a bad movie, that i kind of like tbh. there once was a time when reading comic books and watching sci fi movies would get you a side eye from normies. TLJ promoted the idea that it was Actually Good Art and in the process took itself a bit too seriously. a decade+ ago i was watching Attack of the Clones in a theater and absolutely loving it and in spite seeing that movie getting shat on every day for the past 15 years i still do.
ROS as a fun, stupid pulp movie, one that may accidentally end up being someone's favorite, is kind of fitting. almost takes me back to playground arguments about Ewoks and ROTJ being the bad one. i think in a lot of ways it is important for a lot of kids to be able to celebrate and enjoy for themselves something that everyone considers "bad". it is a demonstration of individuality and the ability to think for oneself. i think any fan of pulp or sci fi has some kind of similar relationship to media.
also the more i think about it, the more i feel like Leia living on through Rey is the secret ending that a lot of people aren't picking up on. granted it may be my head canon but i think that's fine. head canon is cool, nobody should be ashamed or afraid to engage with a movie via their own imagination.
even the idea of a lot of people not liking it and saying it is a bad movie, that i kind of like tbh. there once was a time when reading comic books and watching sci fi movies would get you a side eye from normies. TLJ promoted the idea that it was Actually Good Art and in the process took itself a bit too seriously. a decade+ ago i was watching Attack of the Clones in a theater and absolutely loving it and in spite seeing that movie getting shat on every day for the past 15 years i still do.
ROS as a fun, stupid pulp movie, one that may accidentally end up being someone's favorite, is kind of fitting. almost takes me back to playground arguments about Ewoks and ROTJ being the bad one. i think in a lot of ways it is important for a lot of kids to be able to celebrate and enjoy for themselves something that everyone considers "bad". it is a demonstration of individuality and the ability to think for oneself. i think any fan of pulp or sci fi has some kind of similar relationship to media.
also the more i think about it, the more i feel like Leia living on through Rey is the secret ending that a lot of people aren't picking up on. granted it may be my head canon but i think that's fine. head canon is cool, nobody should be ashamed or afraid to engage with a movie via their own imagination.
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Grinchy
Banned
I was ready to think it was, and honestly maybe it is, but I found it very boring as well. And things like, "Oh you came to this transportation terminal alone and your first name is Han? Well, I'll just call you Han Solo then!" are very fucking stupid. It's a tiny thing that passes quickly, but it really hammers home the stupid reasons they are making with the movies.
And the fact that The Last Jedi shows Luke holding onto some mirror dice as if any of us were supposed to know wtf they were just because the next movie (Solo) would be introducing them as being important to Han makes me hate it even more. It's just all been so mishandled.
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Ulysses 31
Member
And then it turns out the dice belong to Solo's ex girlfriend thus making it more weird to give it to Leia...
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Celcius
°Temp. member
The kiss between Rey and Ben didn’t make sense to me. She was with Finn. In my mind, Finn was trying to say he loved her, not that he was force sensitive. Also, the kiss between Finn and Rose at the end of TLJ didn’t make sense either and they never followed up on that either.
Also, the prequel series had the best light saber fights by far.
I still don’t get how they were riding horses in space and how they could breathe. I didn’t like Palestine being brought back... having Snoke just be an unimportant clone makes rewatching the previous two movies less impactful. It was also kinda strange that the first two movies mention being aligned to the dark side but never Sith, and then the third movie is all about the Sith. I didn’t think Kylo should have been redeemed either. I still enjoyed seeing how it all ended and it had some great scenes but I feel 7 > 8> 9.
Also, the prequel series had the best light saber fights by far.
I still don’t get how they were riding horses in space and how they could breathe. I didn’t like Palestine being brought back... having Snoke just be an unimportant clone makes rewatching the previous two movies less impactful. It was also kinda strange that the first two movies mention being aligned to the dark side but never Sith, and then the third movie is all about the Sith. I didn’t think Kylo should have been redeemed either. I still enjoyed seeing how it all ended and it had some great scenes but I feel 7 > 8> 9.
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PanzerAzel
Member
Yeah, definitely had a romantic subtext between Finn and Rey. She even alluded to it after they emerged in the tunnels from the coffee beans, immediately asking him what he was going to say, implying that she was looking for him to take some initiative to show feelings she felt mutually on.
It also didn’t make sense in context. Who, believing they’re about to die and never see this person again, feels the sudden urge to inform them they are force sensitive? He thinks he’s going to die and he feels that suddenly must be expressed to her?
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#Phonepunk#
Banned
when? all last movie she spent crying and being all over Ben. she gave Finn a hug only at the very end.
IMO (1) the actors have too much chemistry that isn't reflected in the writing but leads people to see more than is intended and (2) the writers obviously want to throw shippers & romance lovers a bone w a line here but have too much on their plate to develop anything sustained or coherent w all the fucking balls JJ is juggling in the air.
mostly ppl are reading too deeply into things, ie "she was with Finn". Rey is basically obsessed with Ben.
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BouncyFrag
Member
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
They were actually in the mid atmosphere... that's why they could breathe
I agree with you on the rest.
S
Shodan09
Unconfirmed Member
I mean, Ben had literally just brought her back to life. Also she friendzones Finn at the end of 7, I don't think there was ever any romantic intent.
buizel
Banned
I love psycho analyzing people as much as the next guy but this is quite a short clip and hard to judge. He might just be twitching nose/eyes. My face often pulls expressions I dont mean to.
Thaedolus
Gold Member
About to go see this today with full spoiler knowledge, but I gotta ask: why is it so hard to fathom that piece of wreckage would land on Endor and not its moon? But wait, was the battle of Endor around a moon called Endor or was it the moon of planet Endor?
Anyway should be fun. I’m glad Rose got hot.
Anyway should be fun. I’m glad Rose got hot.
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Shodan09
Unconfirmed Member
I understand storytelling and themes and I think the last jedi was absolute wank.
S
Shodan09
Unconfirmed Member
Every word you just said was spot on.yeah, no one understands themes and storytelling except you and Rian Johnson.
wow, you're really doubling down on being an elitist douchebag.
Is childish and unfunny
Meaningless
meanspirited and ultimately pointless
is ridiculous and immature. Something I expect from a high schooler, not a grizzled war veteran.
Then again, TLJ seems to be aimed precisely at people with a highschool level intellect. People who think cynicism is genius and nihilism deep.
Literally didn't happen
One of the dumbest moments in the film.
Absolutely not. The throne room scene was silly. Killing Snoke was a dumb move, and it made the knights of Ren . look weak and the first order incompetent
Maybe that scene is just a little to smart for you. Maybe you couldn't figure out Rian's genius.
The only people I've met who actually think the last jedi is anything but trash are a recent film school graduate and a first year a level literature teacher. Both of whom incidentally, come across as arrogant as certain people in this thread.
RiAnS tHeMeS tHo
Ulysses 31
Member
The first order didn't already look incompetent when they could've blown up a ship where rebels were evacuating to instead of a stationary base on some planet or only send 4 fighters to the Raddus when they have many more available? Or have a few ships hyperspace in front the rebels?
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Shodan09
Unconfirmed Member
The first order didn't already look incompetent when they could've blown up a ship where rebels were evacuating to instead of a stationary base on some planet or only send 4 fighters to the Raddus when they have many more available? Or have a few ships hyperspace in front the rebels?
To be fair to Rian, TLJ is a textbook example of how to emaciate your antagonists and render the film completely devoid of any tension at all. It's a masterclass in it.
