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[Hezekiah]

Should we start taking bets on which game comes first:

Perfect Dark
Elder Scrolls 6
State of Decay 3

 

[DenchDeckard]

We all knew what this article was going to be before it was even published. What I don’t get is now they are saying the studio is too woke? So basically, it was a sexist misogynistic studio but then microsoft bought it and turned it into a fair even split studio with people of colour being hired and all the while microsoft kept a hands off approach and now that’s a bad thing and doesn’t work.

But, what we Kotaku are going to do is interview 12 people that don’t even work there anymore and base our opinion on the studio from their interviews….like what is game journalism now?

and the interviewers literally say the cancer came from within undead labs before microsoft purchased worked to fix it…..but they weren’t stern enough?

why not interview people who actually work there?

let’s wait for the next thrilling episode of games journalism with the next American game studio.
don’t get me wrong, it’s shit that this stuff goes on and it needs to be fixed to be fair…but it’s just becoming too easy for these journalists now. Just follow the Jason Schrier approach, find people that won’t be named and no longer work at a studio and just Believe every word…without really interviewing the current studio staff or try and find Out both sides.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

Are they still trying to turn this franchise into some MMO?

Not shocked they're having issues if so.

 

[Bernd Lauert]

But, what we Kotaku are going to do is interview 12 people that don’t even work there anymore and base our opinion on the studio from their interviews….like what is game journalism now?

and the interviewers literally say the cancer came from within undead labs before microsoft purchased worked to fix it…..but they weren’t stern enough?

why not interview people who actually work there?

Some of the interviewed people still work there. These are also more positive about what's going on at the company.

 

[Heisenberg007]

Too many negative XGS management news -- seems too much for Xbox executives to ignore now.

I hope Xbox changes its strategy soon and finds the right balance between being too hands-on (which stifles creativity) and too hands-off (which leads to management issues).

 

[Pedro Motta]

Microsoft from 2013 onwards.

 

[Interfectum]

This shouldn't be surprising. Microsoft bought all of these studios and basically said here is a ton of money and time to make your 'dream game.' That sounds like a good thing, right? But what is the thing that lights the fire under the developer's collective asses? It's usually money and strict deadlines. Microsoft has removed both and here we are.

Also, we are in a day and age where auteurs get shit on for being big old meanies so they even have less power to push for deadlines, results, crunch, etc.

Is it any wonder why these games are taking 5-7 years to make?

 

[Hezekiah]

Does anyone really trust that Starfield will release this year? And if it does release this year, will it be bug free or will it be another Fallout 76/Cyberpunk/Anthem/No Man's Sky situation?

Of course it won't be bug free. It will definitely come out this year though as there's not much else - except maybe Forza, and Redfall which no one seems to care about.

It's a new engine which is promising, but likely to mean teething problems. I'll sub to GP in November to try it out and see if I can finish it by the end of the year if it's playable.

 

[DenchDeckard]

Some of the interviewed people still work there. These are also more positive about what's going on at the company.

Sorry, I skimmed through. Ignore me lol.

i just got triggered by the usual headline comments, which we all expected. Thanks for the correction.

on another note. I really hope some of these Xbox games actually start to get released because it’s fast becoming a piss take.

 

[Bernd Lauert]

Microsoft from 2013 onwards.

I also hope they keep winning publisher of the year every year

 

[Heisenberg007]

Should we start taking bets on which game comes first:

Perfect Dark
Elder Scrolls 6
State of Decay 3

My guess though:

1. Perfect Dark (2024/2025)
2. State of Decay 3 (2025/2026)
3. Elder Scrolls 6 (2026/2027)

 

[adamsapple]

The highlighted in red literally implies where that game is in terms of mechanics and systems. If you knew how games were made you would have caught that, but you would rather damage control.

The interview is from before the recent expose lol, there's no damage control ,there was no reason to believe when that original interview happened what the internal affairs at the undead labs studio were.

 

[NEbeast]

Just get Gamepass bro, no need to cope like this.

So you admit that gamepass reduces game quality.

 

[azertydu91]

It was Supermassive, not QD

Oh shit you're right my bad, I don't know why I always mix the two.Well since I have brought shame to my family time to hara kiri let me just get my sword real quick.
But yeah Supermassive is a studio that benefits from supervision but I'm sure there are other that do not need it.

 

[BbMajor7th]

MS could put out a press release this afternoon saying that they're closing down the XBOX division and selling off all the assets and there'd still be people in the thread saying 'they just won publisher of the year; they'll be fine.'

 

[mckmas8808]

Matt Booty's team has been pretty hands off. And unfortunately all the issues we are seeing come from E3 2018. Everwild from RARE is still not a game, Initiative has literally been gutted and CD is taking over PD and now that game is easily 2-3 years away.

Basically newly founded studios, and ones who were questionable in their ability's to take on larger projects all having nothing but issues.

And it all stems from Internally Microsoft not having a great team that has it's owns studio structure/identity.

Which they have never had because of the ever evolving door of Enterprise/Software people who end up running the division. Now everything is starting to come to a head. Why do you think they were looking recently at Activision after the news broke of the scandal? It was all within same time period Microsoft was viewing progress across all their studios, specifically Initiative and Undead labs. It's time stamped in the article when Microsoft was going into panic mode. Buying Activision was them needing content quick knowing none of the projects in the pipeline would be ready in a 12-24 month time frame. They know that for what they want from Gamepass growth wise you need content.

So buying Activision/Blizzard fits that need.

I'm not going to front..........this post reads perfectly. It makes more sense than MS buying Activision Blizzard just for GamePass. $70 Billion is just too much money to spend, just to have content on GamePass.

 

[Bernd Lauert]

I'm not going to front..........this post reads perfectly. It makes more sense than MS buying Activision Blizzard just for GamePass. $70 Billion is just too much money to spend, just to have content on GamePass.

The inofficial version is that MS bought AB mostly because of the mobile division and because the price tumbled after the sexual harassment allegations.

 

[ANDS]

If even half of what is in the Kotaku article is accurate, that sounds like a jerry-rigged studio with a good germ of a game and zero leadership able to make it happen.

Oh no, women felt overlooked.

Oh shut up. Did you even bother reading the article, or did you just "read" the article you've imagined in your head. You can argue with the headline but the article itself is more than just "Oh them wimminz is at it agains. . ."

 

[ByWatterson]

Here's my HOT TAKE:

I'm gonna play the games I like, and a free labor market plus sensible employment laws will take care of the rest.

 

[Bernd Lauert]

Oh shut up. Did you even bother reading the article, or did you just "read" the article you've imagined in your head. You can argue with the headline but the article itself is more than just "Oh them wimminz is at it agains. . ."

I read the entire article. It's a mix of complaining about "white cishet men" (direct quote), QA being treated as the bottom tier workers they are (sad but it is what it is), and some turmoil with vision and leadership.

 

[Ozriel]

So you admit that gamepass reduces game quality.

Publisher of the year 2021. Most of those games were on Gamepass.

The evidence on ground doesn’t support your hypothesis.

I'm not going to front..........this post reads perfectly. It makes more sense than MS buying Activision Blizzard just for GamePass. $70 Billion is just too much money to spend, just to have content on GamePass.

You…think MS paid $70bn for Activision because Initiative and Undead Labs games might be experiencing delays ?

 

[arvfab]

time to hara kiri

I'm Italian, your pinky is sufficient.

 

[azertydu91]

I'm Italian, your pinky is sufficient.

Believe me to say something like that you haven't seen my pinky.

 

[arvfab]

Believe me to say something like that you haven't seen my pinky.

We are still talking about fingers, right?

 

[NickFire]

Matt Booty's team has been pretty hands off. And unfortunately all the issues we are seeing come from E3 2018. Everwild from RARE is still not a game, Initiative has literally been gutted and CD is taking over PD and now that game is easily 2-3 years away.

Basically newly founded studios, and ones who were questionable in their ability's to take on larger projects all having nothing but issues.

And it all stems from Internally Microsoft not having a great team that has it's owns studio structure/identity.

Which they have never had because of the ever evolving door of Enterprise/Software people who end up running the division. Now everything is starting to come to a head. Why do you think they were looking recently at Activision after the news broke of the scandal? It was all within same time period Microsoft was viewing progress across all their studios, specifically Initiative and Undead labs. It's time stamped in the article when Microsoft was going into panic mode. Buying Activision was them needing content quick knowing none of the projects in the pipeline would be ready in a 12-24 month time frame. They know that for what they want from Gamepass growth wise you need content.

So buying Activision/Blizzard fits that need.

Considering how badly 343 blew the platform‘s opportunity to launch Series X and Halo at the same time, I would bet the issue comes down to one simple mistake. Instead of giving creative freedom to the best people when they went hands off on development, they gave it to the right people.

 

[Papacheeks]

The interview is from before the recent expose lol, there's no damage control ,there was no reason to believe when that original interview happened what the internal affairs at the undead labs studio were.

It's like you didn't read the original article? In summer/fall of 2021 Microsoft was checking in on studios like Intiaitve, Undead labs. Which is noted in the article, they saw what disaray the studio was in project and leadership wise and went into panic mode to get the studio in a better place leadership wise so their project could continue in a proper state.

"

“We fall short when we fail to provide a safe and inclusive environment for every person who works in our industry,” he said. “We fall short when we tolerate abuse. We fall short every single time someone feels unwelcome in our industry and our communities.”

Spencer’s comments could apply to a lot of game studios. One of them is Undead Labs, the maker of the survival base-building series State of Decay. Spencer helped Microsoft acquire the studio almost four years ago. Housed in an old brick building in downtown Seattle 20 minutes from Microsoft’s sprawling 500-acre headquarters, “the Lab” has undergone a massive transformation from lean indie to first-party studio with triple-A ambitions in the years since it was sold.

"According to a Microsoft spokesperson, those positive changes have included “an entirely new leadership team,” diverse hires in 2021 that were 42% female or non-binary, and 29% from a racial or ethnic minority group, and a March 2022 health survey with 84% of respondents willing to recommend working at Undead Labs. But current and former developers say those numbers don’t tell the full story of the painful last couple of years, or of how committed the studio or Microsoft will be to supporting its latest wave of hires when the going gets tough.

“The culture the studio had up until recently was not the most hospitable for anyone that was not a white cishet man,” said one current developer. “It’s improved in the last six months or so. But the studio hired a lot of diverse talent that it did not adequately support [in the past].”

So here below is basically the timeline of what went down and where the project was when Microsoft saw it was in disarray:

The dam eventually broke in an August 2021 meeting, three sources told Kotaku, in which a series of raw testimonials were shared that helped members realize they weren’t alone in feeling the ways they did.

It’s not exactly clear what happened next. Some current and former developers suspect enough people finally complained directly to Xbox to force the issue. One current developer said Schlosser requested a morale review by Microsoft. Whatever the reason, Microsoft HR got involved, interviewed dozens of employees, and in September Schlosser quietly left on a Friday without so much as a farewell message, current and former developers said.

Schlosser denied this in a phone call with Kotaku, and said her departure was part of a planned reorganization at the studio, but declined to go into further detail because of her existing separation agreement with Microsoft. Microsoft declined to comment on what unfolded.

An internal demo went terribly later that year, and management began to panic in 2021 when there still wasn’t a coherent slice of the game to show Microsoft. “The leadership team claimed that we were ‘prototyping,’ and yet we were attempting to make playable demos to show off to external stakeholders,” said one former developer. “There were contradictions everywhere.”

“They kept piling on more features for more demos,” said another. “It was a complete mess. People left and were replaced by juniors. To quote a producer, ‘I’m not an expert at the code or anything, but our systems should be past the prototype stage.’ Even when the experts at code told him, ‘no it’s not even working at all yet,’ they ignored that comment and added more features to the deadline.”

State of Decay 3 was supposed to have two internal demos last fall, according to three sources familiar with the plan. The first in September would primarily be a presentation composed of images of GIFs followed by a second in December featuring gameplay. Holt decided in late summer he wanted both to show gameplay, a move that would have put a lot of pressure on teams to work overtime to meet the new milestone.

Ultimately, the team revolted and Holt relented. A more limited version of what the team planned to show in December was moved up for the September demo, and the second one was canceled altogether. Even so, some developers said the last-minute scrambling was still disruptive.

Throughout the end of the year the studio burned through more of its experienced developers, sources said. “If this was what pre-production was like there was no way I was sticking around for full production,” one former developer told Kotaku. Another felt State of Decay 3 could still be stuck in pre-production for a year or more. “They’re still at square one with a lot of stuff.”

If that doesn't paint a timeline for where the game is, then you truly did not read the article nor did you pay attention to what was being said on things happening from 2020-2022.


Please don't comment unless you really want to try and dissect this. Because its very clear cut the project was min-managed from within, and mismanaged altogether by Microsoft not acting sooner. And here we are April 2022. WIth a studio that seems happier, seems to have better direction somewhat. But in terms of project completion is still a long ways off.

 

[azertydu91]

We are still talking about fingers, right?

Well it depends did you buy me flowers?

 

[adamsapple]

If that doesn't paint a timeline for where the game is, then you truly did not read the article nor did you pay attention to what was being said on things happening from 2020-2022.


Please don't comment unless you really want to try and dissect this. Because its very clear cut the project was min-managed from within, and mismanaged altogether by Microsoft not acting sooner. And here we are April 2022. WIth a studio that seems happier, seems to have better direction somewhat. But in terms of project completion is still a long ways off.

My dude you're using the article that just came out a day ago to ask me to paint a picture of the timeline in 2020/2021.

Unless I'm secretly a time traveler, it wouldn't have been possible to know all this *UNTIL* that expose from Kotaku came out.

We (Forum goers) wouldn't have had knowledge like this when that Phil Spencer interview came out earlier this year.

You're taking this way too seriously lol.

 

[Aion002]

 

[ANDS]

I read the entire article. It's a mix of complaining about "white cishet men" (direct quote), QA being treated as the bottom tier workers they are (sad but it is what it is), and some turmoil with vision and leadership.

You "read" the article and the best response you could come up with, "the women, they be complainin'!" If I wasn't old and senile this would be the perfect spot for a "Sure Jan. . ." image of some sort.

 

[Bonfires Down]

Matt Booty's team has been pretty hands off. And unfortunately all the issues we are seeing come from E3 2018. Everwild from RARE is still not a game, Initiative has literally been gutted and CD is taking over PD and now that game is easily 2-3 years away.

Basically newly founded studios, and ones who were questionable in their ability's to take on larger projects all having nothing but issues.

And it all stems from Internally Microsoft not having a great team that has it's owns studio structure/identity.

Which they have never had because of the ever evolving door of Enterprise/Software people who end up running the division. Now everything is starting to come to a head. Why do you think they were looking recently at Activision after the news broke of the scandal? It was all within same time period Microsoft was viewing progress across all their studios, specifically Initiative and Undead labs. It's time stamped in the article when Microsoft was going into panic mode. Buying Activision was them needing content quick knowing none of the projects in the pipeline would be ready in a 12-24 month time frame. They know that for what they want from Gamepass growth wise you need content.

So buying Activision/Blizzard fits that need.

I agree they are having problem getting stuff out in a timely manner, but I highly doubt that's why they bought Actiblizz. More likely it was because they wanted to get rid of a lot of cash before inflation takes it.

What exclusives will even be ready from Actiblizz in the next 24 months? CoD is multiplat, as is Warzone 2. Overwatch 2 is multiplat I assume. Diablo is likely still years away. Candy Crush is mobile. If they wanted big games quick Activision is the worst purchase they could have made.

If they just wanted more Game Pass stuff they could have slipped Kotick a billion or two rather than spend 70 billion buying the whole thing.

 

[Papacheeks]

My dude you're using the article that just came out a day ago to ask me to paint a picture of the timeline in 2020/2021.

Unless I'm secretly a time traveler, it wouldn't have been possible to know all this *UNTIL* that expose from Kotaku came out.

We (Forum goers) wouldn't have had knowledge like this when that Phil Spencer interview came out earlier this year.

You're taking this way too seriously lol.

When all you have from a developer in 2020 2 years ago is a CGI trailer and you hear nothing, then in 2022 Phil Spencer talks about Undead labs pre article and he's talking about systems that he can't wait for them to implement that means they are literally still building the systems that will be implemented in your game code. Aka not full Production.

I agree they are having problem getting stuff out in a timely manner, but I highly doubt that's why they bought Actiblizz. More likely it was because they wanted to get rid of a lot of cash before inflation takes it.

What exclusives will even be ready from Actiblizz in the next 24 months? CoD is multiplat, as is Warzone 2. Overwatch 2 is multiplat I assume. Diablo is likely still years away. WoW, Apex are multiplat. Candy Crush is mobile. If they wanted big games quick Activision is the worst purchase they could have made.

Your not thinking in terms Gamepass content. For them to have the growth they want, they will need a steady stream of content every couple months. Activision/Blizzard purchase makes that a more attainable goal.

 

[Bonfires Down]

Your not thinking in terms Gamepass content. For them to have the growth they want, they will need a steady stream of content every couple months. Activision/Blizzard purchase makes that a more attainable goal.

Or they could have bought Take Two+Ubi+Capcom+Square or something which would have made much more sense if they just wanted regular Game Pass releases. Sure, they get a CoD each year with Activision but other than that it's just a Blizzard game every couple years or whatever.

 

[TheGodfather07]

how many of the studio's and publishers microsoft aquired even released a game yet? i know we had deathloop from bethesda but that was a PS5 exclusive. how ironic. maybe microsoft's issue is that they are too lenient and the fact that they have so much money that there is no urgency or incentive to ensure things go smoothly. its really just pocket change for them. where as sony and nintendo are under pressure to deliver because they have a lot at stake.

gaming is all nintendo have and is a big part of sony's business. what is it to microsoft in comparison? sony and nintendo need gaming and they cant just throw billions around either without needng a return on that investment. none of that exists for microsoft and you can see it in how they operate compared to the other 2.

 

[Pedro Motta]

I also hope they keep paying for publisher of the year every year

Fixed it for you.

 

[Bernd Lauert]

how many of the studio's and publishers microsoft aquired even released a game yet?

Double Fine released Psychonauts 2. Inxile released Wasteland 3. Obsidian released Outer Worlds. Playground released Forza Horizon 5.

(Something tells me this wasn't a genuine question )

 

[yurinka]

Should we start taking bets on which game comes first:

Perfect Dark
Elder Scrolls 6
State of Decay 3

Same can be said with these ones:
Everwild
Fable
Forza Motorsport
Indiana Jones
Hellblade 2

Out of these 8 games the only one I see getting released before 2024 is Forza Motorsport, that I see its release as their big H2 2023 game, being their main H1 2023 one Starfield.

 

[Papacheeks]

Double Fine released Psychonauts 2. Inxile released Wasteland 3. Obsidian released Outer Worlds. Playground released Forza Horizon 5.

(Something tells me this wasn't a genuine question )

Double fine is an already proven studio with a giant track record. And Psychonauts 2 was already in development way before MS purchase. None of the those developers need help, well besides Playground who is having issues with Fable it seems.

But it also is their first non-car game.

Keep damage controlling you just make everyone look more like the clowns you are.

 

[remember_spinal]

Kind of scary to think where xbox studios would be if they didn’t acquire bethesda.

 

[Papacheeks]

Kind of scary to think where xbox studios would be if they didn’t acquire bethesda.

Yup.

They are super happy with Obsidian who cranks out stuff in a timely manner. And they are not even that big.

 

[jaysius]

April Fools right? The game is at least in production stage now?

If it's true then hopefully they work on OPTIMIZATIONS and BUG fixes longer in this development than the last 2, these games are incredibly fun, but god damn they're full of bugs and run like shit.

 

[Sentenza]

"When I interviewed at the Lab, I was sold [the idea of] a studio in transition that was making [diversity, equity, and inclusion] a top priority," said one former developer. "What it was in actuality was studio leadership painting a DEI face for Microsoft, while women were consistently ignored, dismissed, interrupted, talked over, and blamed."

Jesus Christ, this reads like a parody.
These people deluded themselves into thinking their working environment is a place where they should be coddled and nurtured to chase their social activism.

 

[Captain Toad]

I doubt anyone is losing any sleep over this one.

 

[TheGodfather07]

Double Fine released Psychonauts 2. Inxile released Wasteland 3. Obsidian released Outer Worlds. Playground released Forza Horizon 5.

(Something tells me this wasn't a genuine question )

than i stand corrected. you have to admit though, its still not good. i mean, werent 2 of those games multiplat and in development long before the microsoft aquisition? you can disagree but i think microsoft are way too slow and disorganised with game development. how long ago was everwild announced? yet we have yet to see any footage of the game. they dont even know what the game is!!? to be fair to microsoft, the summer show is just round the corner and it could change everything.

 

[Papacheeks]

than i stand corrected. you have to admit though, its still not good. i mean, werent 2 of those games multiplat and in development long before the microsoft aquisition? you can disagree but i think microsoft are way too slow and disorganised with game development.

BINGO!

Tell him what he's won Johnny!!

 

[GymWolf]

State of Decay, Perfect Dark and Everwild are pretty much the only ones that are probably a way out.

They’ve got a lot of studios….




I’m not sure how you think ‘implementing new things’ is incompatible with a game in active development

Fable and avowed don't look like 2022 games at all aswell.

 

[Ozriel]

Fable and avowed don't look like 2022 games at all aswell.

They've never been pitched as 2022 games. Most likely 2023.

 

[Ozriel]

how long ago was everwild announced? yet we have yet to see any footage of the game. they dont even know what the game is!!?

Source?

 

[cormack12]

April Fools right? The game is at least in production stage now?

I thought that but dated yesterday. Shame if true as I was looking forward to this. If that's the stage it's in then I'm expecting a jump like from UC1 to UC2 when it releases tbh.

 

[GymWolf]

They've never been pitched as 2022 games. Most likely 2023.

Was state of decay 3 ever pitched for 2022? I though we were talking broadly, my bad.