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The 89th Academy Awards |OT| La La Land up 3-1, they got this

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Q

Quick

Banned
LionPride said:
Now this is likely it, but I understand why some feel like it's white-splaining
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I can definitely see where it can be seen as whitesplaining. I think, in the end, we're all going to have our different takes on how the scene plays out. It's worth having these discussions.

cj_iwakura said:
I'm not sure what it IS saying then.
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That it doesn't sit right when a white person explains how jazz "should be" to a black person, whose people started and popularized the genre.

Not saying white people can't like jazz because it's black music. But don't try to explain it like you started the genre.
 
B

BlastProcessing

Member
stupei said:
So how do you feel about the people who actually won and had their time cut short, their moment forever overshadowed by someone else's mistake, the segue into their victory introduced through bitterness instead of respect? That's all good and we should just be overly concerned with this one dude who only a handful of people are even commenting on?

Look, being a producer is a stressful job that sometimes requires a lot of quick thinking on the spot with literally millions on the line. One of the producers demonstrated just how good he is at his job by reacting quickly, taking control, and keeping his head. The other one really didn't.
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I think that the entire clusterfuck was lamentable. I also think it sucks that more people are talking about and dunking on a La La Land producer rather than talking about the actual Best Picture winner. I have no idea how Berger is becoming the fall guy for all of this and it's insane to me to watch it happen in real time.

The idea that you would use this single, insane, event to pass judgement on how well Berger is at his job seems like a bit of a knee jerk reaction no?
 
B

Bobby Roberts

Banned
RootCause said:
Guys! There are two bald dudes. One gave the speech, the other took the envelope from Warren. :p
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Fred Berger = bald dude who ended his speech with "We lost by the way"
Jordan Horowitz = bald dude who made sure everyone knew Moonlight were the rightful winners.

Fantastical said:
I think heavily scrutinizing everyone's reactions on a stage with a lot of confusion and millions watching is not a great idea.
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I don't even know that Berger's actions are being all that heavily scrutinized as much as they are just being observed.

To clarify: I don't think the dude is some sort of heinous piece of shit. Just that it was a bad call that made things appear a little shady.
 
P

petethepanda

Member
Man is it a fucking bummer that Moonlight didn't get to have its moment without incident. Imagine how incredible that would have been. (The way it did play out was certainly memorable, but not the kind of memorable that it deserved.)
 
L

LionPride

Banned
Quick said:
I can definitely see where it can be seen as whitesplaining. I think, in the end, we're all going to have our different takes on how the scene plays out. It's worth having these discussions.



That it doesn't sit right when a white person explains how jazz "should be" to a black person, whose people started and popularized the genre.

Not saying white people can't like jazz because it's black music. But don't try to explain it like you started the genre.
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You, you I like. Like, personally, I felt some type of way because it was weird, but I disregarded it as Seb being a weird traditionalist who didn't actually follow the spirit of Jazz, much like how Keith mentioned it. I understand why some view it as white-splaining though
 
M

Maengun1

Member
Feel kinda bad for the La La Land people for that moment but ultimately both are good movies, both won big awards, and both will get more views now and be more remembered in pop culture history

Congrats to Moonlight
 
T

Tagg9

Member
TheFlow said:
"One of the first people who taught me how to act was Denzel Washington, and I just met him tonight for the first time. Thank you," he said."

coming from Affleck and then the camera going to Washington did not give it that type of vibe js.

will be interesting to see Denzel talk about it later.
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I must be missing something. What is the controversy here?
 
cj_iwakura

cj_iwakura

Member
Quick said:
I can definitely see where it can be seen as whitesplaining. I think, in the end, we're all going to have our different takes on how the scene plays out. It's worth having these discussions.



That it doesn't sit right when a white person explains how jazz "should be" to a black person, whose people started and popularized the genre.

Not saying white people can't like jazz because it's black music. But don't try to explain it like you started the genre.
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Legend's character has a wildly different take on jazz that Sebastian doesn't agree with.
 
K

kevin1025

Banned
boring accountant said:
In this fake news and viral video era, I think it was an amazing maneuver to make tv relevant again. I'm honestly impressed if it is indeed the case.
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Being honest, I can certainly see this being a possibility. But in my personal opinion, it was just an honest mistake at the worst possible moment.
 
F

Fallout-with-swords

Banned
gutter_trash said:
yup, I agree.

the losers should not have been allowed to touch anything after it was clear that is was a mistake.

He disrespected Warren Beaty IMO, it wasn't Warren's fault

fuck that bald guy
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The first bald guy who spoke after hearing they didn't win was lame, the second guy who pulled the card from Betty salvaged it. No offense to Betty, he was given the wrong card, but someone needed to speak up and decisively say who won and he did that. And that should have been the end of it Warren explaining the situation was awkward he should have just been letting the Moonlight producers speak. Bald guy #2 may have rudly grabbed the card but he had a right to be mad.

Really though that accountant new straight away he took the wrong card and was too shy to stop the trainwreck. I'm not going to judge a group of people who were told they achieved something they dreamed of their entire lives and then had it taken away.
 
I

_Isaac

Member
Bobby Roberts said:
ALSO: if you rewatch, you can see that the show's producers are filling in the recipients while the speeches are going on. Horowitz & the other bald guy absolutely know they did not win. Watch 'em in the background.

Here's some shady shit: The other bald guy goes up and starts delivering his speech ANYWAY. He starts his speech knowing they didn't win, that the wrong envelope got read, and it's only after Horowitz starts taking control that he gives it up and is like "We lost, by the way."

Crazy. Like, he was just sorta gambling that... what, the Academy would just let it rock?
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Actually the haired producer was like "Go Fred. Go ahead, Fred!" and you can see bald Fred shake his head like no he shouldn't, but that peer pressure and that once in a lifetime chance to say hi to your parents in French got to him.
 
A

aadiboy

Member
I feel like you could make a full hour long documentary about the mistake, and replay the footage over and over again from different angles like the Kennedy assassination.
 
M

MMarston

Was getting caught part of your plan?
uncredited male said:
He had the shot but couldn't pull the trigger.
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Here's how I think it played out:

Beaty's head

"Well, Best pic here we g--wait, that? Best actress? That can't"

(checks again)

"Am I just going senile or.."

(checks again)

"Okay this is uh what do I do... I'm on stage on the biggest movie event of the year hmm. Well, maybe Dunaway can check if I'm not just being an idiot or somethng."

(shows Dunaway the puzzling card)

Dunaway's head:

"Oh Warren, you're so silly! Sure, I'll do the honors."
 
K

Klocker

Member
Johnny Cage In The Shower said:
You guys who are going hard on the second Bald Producer for giving a "speech" after knowing well that they lost... Have you guys ever been up on stage? gave a speech at a wedding maybe?

That guy is totally in a different world, time is moving at a different pace for him than us the audience, he probably rehearsed his "acceptance" speech million times in his head like a robot... And even though he saw the actual "Moonlight" 'Best Picture' Envelope his mind was still racing, he saw the lights, the open mic and he like a zombie to a human brain went for it... maybe halfway through his speech, reality started to seep through the cracks, he snapped out of it, and that's when he added "We Lost By The Way"

Seriously, give the guy a break, it's mix of stage fright, rush, adrenaline, confusion, disappointment and realization, all in one...
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Yep.... it is unfolding behind him as he is speaking, turns around as he is finishing and catches what is going on and as quickly as he realizes what happens.. says we lost...

So yea not intentional at all, just the way the information propagated. I see no malice there, wouldn't make sense anyway. Its not like he's going to keep the Oscar. Guy probably feels like an ass for speaking as it was happening
 
M

Memento

Member
sleepwalkcapsules said:
Adrenaline from being on stage at the oscars
+
Adrenaline from being told you won the most prestigious award of all
+
Adrenaline from being told you actually didn't win, in an unprecedented fuck up

It's beyond justified. And no big deal in the grand scheme of things
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MMarston said:
I would've done it the same way in his position, tbh.

It's a ship that needed to be righted ASAP.
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STILLethal said:
Not really - he took action while Warren was in the back cheesing, holding on to the enevelope and waiting for the crowd to settle down or something - but there was no time for that
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Roland_Gunner said:
What seriously? That guy handled the situation as well as humanly possible. People were confused and thought it was some terrible parody of the Steve Harvey deal. Someone needed to make it very clear what was going on and get the Moonlight crew on stage. Bald guy for President 2020.
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Rhaknar said:
Yes a colossal fuck up live on tv in front of billions, his movie announced as the wrong winner, him trying to set things whilst making sure people dont think its a joke... totally unnecessary reaction :p
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HardRojo said:
He actually handled it all pretty well, considering how fast it all was and the emotions involved. He had to gather around his crew to let them know what had happened, process the fact that they had not won, correct the mistake and keep his cool while making sure it all happened quickly.
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Are you guys seriously defending him?

I mean, yeah yeah, stage pressure I know. He was probably very nervous. But that doesnt excuse him for being so rude. It wasnt Warren's fault. It wasnt anybody's fault there.

The way he took the envelope from Warren's hand was ridiculous, rude and stupid. No excuses.
 
S

stupei

Member
jack_package_200 said:
In the Seb and Keith scene, didn't Keith call out Seb for his "jazz traditionalism" since its a contradiction not actually following in the spirit of jazz?
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He does and you might even think Keith seems correct (he does), but then later on the film makes it clear we're supposed to dislike Keith and his perspective on art. Even if you're enjoying his music, every single escalation as he plays and each reaction shot of Emma Stone's character makes it clear we're supposed to be horrified by how much they're sell outs.

Stone is so repulsed by what she sees in that scene that she is actually pushed away from the stage physically. While the writing in the earlier scene allowed for some nuance in who you might agree with, the camerawork and editing in this performance leaves no doubt about who the film is saying is right.

cj_iwakura said:
I think you're reading way too much into it. It's a character who's passionate about music, it doesn't have to be a race thing.
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In a scene where the film explains the history and origins of jazz, only white people speak in a room surrounded entirely by black people, and they never once mention blackness or jazz existing as a black art form.

That's super awkward and feels incredibly self-conscious.
 
Q

Quick

Banned
cj_iwakura said:
Legend's character has a wildly different take on jazz that Sebastian doesn't agree with.
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I JUST explained how the scene played out. What I explained was fact, but interpretations and feelings towards it are subjective.

I don't think it's whitesplaining, but I'm not about to tell other people they're wrong if they think this is how it is.
 
T

Trigonometrize.

Member
petethepanda said:
Man is it a fucking bummer that Moonlight didn't get to have its moment without incident. Imagine how incredible that would have been. (The way it did play out was certainly memorable, but not the kind of memorable that it deserved.)
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I bet for the people accepting the award, it wasn't even so much that they missed out on spotlight time, but the fact that they literally had to take the trophy from La La Land.
 
B

BlastProcessing

Member
Bobby Roberts said:
No, you can see it happen in real time. He knows what's happened. He reads the card himself, and he knows enough to attempt denying the mic at first.



"Hot take culture" isn't dunking on the dude. I get that you're empathizing with the guy because you've been in a similar situation and it was really overwhelming for you, but in the end, he knowingly gave an acceptance speech for an award he understood was no longer his. That's kinda shady. And he seems to understand as he's doing it that he shouldn't be doing it.
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Again, you just throw out "knowingly" and "shady" like they are objective things. Neither of those things are clear to me. What I see is someone who is slowly deflating on national television. I also see people in this thread saying that he is disrespectful, shady and bad at his job. All because of how he acted for a few seconds in a highly chaotic environment. I'm not sure how that's not dunking on a dude.
 
R

riskybusinesstomcruise

Member
Quick said:
I can definitely see where it can be seen as whitesplaining. I think, in the end, we're all going to have our different takes on how the scene plays out. It's worth having these discussions.



That it doesn't sit right when a white person explains how jazz "should be" to a black person, whose people started and popularized the genre.

Not saying white people can't like jazz because it's black music. But don't try to explain it like you started the genre.
Click to expand...

The scene is pretty much:

*Ryan Gosling looking uncomfortable*

John Legend: Hey man, I know this isn't your traditional style of jazz, but jazz is about experimentation and progress so quit being such a ding dong about it

Ryan Gosling: Yeah you're probably right

Also being black=understanding jazz ?
 
P

polyh3dron

Banned
Bobby Roberts said:
No, you can see it happen in real time. He knows what's happened. He reads the card himself, and he knows enough to attempt denying the mic at first.



"Hot take culture" isn't dunking on the dude. I get that you're empathizing with the guy because you've been in a similar situation and it was really overwhelming for you, but in the end, he knowingly gave an acceptance speech for an award he understood was no longer his. That's kinda shady. And he seems to understand as he's doing it that he shouldn't be doing it.
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Are you seriously saying the La La Land producer didn't handle this well? Am I reading this right?
 
F

Fantastical

Death Prophet
Memento said:
Are you guys seriously defending him?

I mean, yeah yeah, stage pressure I know. He was probably very nervous. But that doesnt excuse him for being so rude. It wasnt Warren's fault. It wasnt anybody's fault there.

The way he took the envelope from Warren's hand was ridiculous, rude and stupid. No excuses.
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I definitely excuse him in that moment, yes. I'm sure if he could do it all again differently he would bit he handled it very well imo
 
M

mjp2417

Banned
boring accountant said:
This incredibly simple mistake only happens at the very last and important moment? And in a post-Harvey world? It's tv clickbait and done masterfully.
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Yes, for the same reason that the Atlanta Falcons decide to throw the ball and risk a sack when they are already in field goal range for a game-clinching kick, or for the same reason that Steph Curry lazily tosses a backwards pass out of bounds in the final minutes of a tight game 7. Human error happens all the time, regardless of how many are watching on television. The people inside your television are still actually fallible human beings who frequently fuck up like all of us do.
 
Grizzlyjin

Grizzlyjin

Supersonic, idiotic, disconnecting, not respecting, who would really ever wanna go and top that
petethepanda said:
Man is it a fucking bummer that Moonlight didn't get to have its moment without incident. Imagine how incredible that would have been. (The way it did play out was certainly memorable, but not the kind of memorable that it deserved.)
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That would have been nice, but I actually like that it went down this way. Instead of just being another Oscar winner that's a trivia question in a decade, this pretty much immortalized it. At next year's Oscars this'll probably be a joke to start off the night.
 
G

gutter_trash

Banned
Fallout-with-swords said:
The first bald guy who spoke after hearing they didn't win was lame, the second guy who pulled the card from Betty salvaged it. No offense to Betty, he was given the wrong card, but someone needed to speak up and decisively say who won and he did that. And that should have been the end of it Warren explaining the situation was awkward he should have just been letting the Moonlight producers speak. Bald guy #2 may have rudly grabbed the card but he had a right to be mad.

Really though that accountant new straight away he took the wrong card and was too shy to stop the trainwreck. I'm not going to judge a group of people who were told they achieved something they dreamed of their entire lives and then had it taken away.
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have calm and respect for a Hollywood legend before yanking the card out of his hand,
angry bald dude deserves to lose for taking it out on Warren Beaty
 
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