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The Finals- true next gen multiplayer arrives

Black_Stride

do not tempt fate do not contrain Wonder Woman's thighs do not do not
Have people not realised that there is an opening in a game designed to try and emulate Team Fortress 2 in terms of genre rather than just try and create the exact same title that releases every other month in an oversaturated market of F2P competitive shooters with a WHACKY twist.

If the best the former Battlefield devs can come up with is Apex Legends mixed with Hyperscape I'm pretty sure the market is due anouther crash right about now.
Team Fortress 2 is a hero shooter with CTF, Control, Payload and KOTH?
So effectively Overwatch.

This from what we have seen is most similar to CTF or other heist modes, so im not really sure how you are seeing Apex Legends mixed with Hyperscape, when if anything id say its relatively unique in the current F2P landscape of popular shooters.
 

STARSBarry

Gold Member
Team Fortress 2 is a hero shooter with CTF, Control, Payload and KOTH?
So effectively Overwatch.

This from what we have seen is most similar to CTF or other heist modes, so im not really sure how you are seeing Apex Legends mixed with Hyperscape, when if anything id say its relatively unique in the current F2P landscape of popular shooters.

You lost pretty much everyone who is older than 25 in your first paragraph, I would suggest you actually play the game and come back.

People state there is no such thing as a wrong opinion, I think we can safely say that this is an example that proves this untrue.
 
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Black_Stride

do not tempt fate do not contrain Wonder Woman's thighs do not do not
You lost pretty much everyone who is older than 25 in your first paragraph, I would suggest you actually play the game and come back.

People state there is no such thing as a wrong opinion, I think we can safely say that this is an example that proves this untrue.
Wait what?
Team Fortress 2 is NOT a hero shooter with those game modes?
When TF2 came out, the whole idea of a hero shooter wasnt really a thing, they were just called classes or characters, its a new definition, but yes by todays terms TF2 is a hero shooter, each of those classes is a "hero" and yes TF2 has those game modes. I know they put some other gamemodes in every now and then, but im pretty sure the bread and butter game modes are still those core game modes.
I played TF when it was a mod, and TF2 when it came out for a very long time, cuz I was a broke student.


But, since im clearly so uninformed, pray tell what makes TF2 unique....unique enough that you figure other games need to replicate whatever it is you assume is so unique about it.
 

STARSBarry

Gold Member
Wait what?
Team Fortress 2 is NOT a hero shooter with those game modes?
When TF2 came out, the whole idea of a hero shooter wasnt really a thing, they were just called classes or characters, its a new definition, but yes by todays terms TF2 is a hero shooter, each of those classes is a "hero" and yes TF2 has those game modes. I know they put some other gamemodes in every now and then, but im pretty sure the bread and butter game modes are still those core game modes.
I played TF when it was a mod, and TF2 when it came out for a very long time, cuz I was a broke student.


But, since im clearly so uninformed, pray tell what makes TF2 unique....unique enough that you figure other games need to replicate whatever it is you assume is so unique about.

Anyone who has played TF2 and Overwatch should be able to understand that both games work completely differently. I assume when you say a mod you mean Quake Fortress, and yes Hero shooters which worked off infinite ammo, 2 recharging abilties and ultimates did not infact exist back in the 1990's because Aeon of Strife and its bastard child Defence of the Ancients had not yet been released which Hero shooters are the FPS evolution of.

Your essentially saying that Battlefield Bad Company 2 is a hero shooter or that Wolfenstien Enemy Territory is a hero shooter, Chivalry 2 is a hero shooter I guess now too, all of which given there class based objective gameplay fit much closer in playstyle to Quake Fortress, TFC and TF2 (especially Wolfenstien).

Just because you see some base similarities, if you effectively classify an entire genre because it has cart pushing all I can say is that RE4 remake is now also a hero shooter (LEON HELP!) Splatoon 3 is a hero shooter, I mean the weapons are just "classes" right with rechargeable abilties and in anarchy battles you have to push a tower... obviously a hero shooter.

Overwatch at best could be argued to be a very boring class based shooter
 
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Black_Stride

do not tempt fate do not contrain Wonder Woman's thighs do not do not
Anyone who has played TF2 and Overwatch should be able to understand that both games work completely differently. I assume when you say a mod you mean Quake Fortress, and yes Hero shooters which worked off infinite ammo, 2 recharging abilties and ultimates did not infact exist back in the 1990's because Aeon of Strife and its bastard child Defence of the Ancients had not yet been released which Hero shooters are the FPS evolution of.

Your essentially saying that Battlefield Bad Company 2 is a hero shooter or that Wolfenstien Enemy Territory is a hero shooter, Chivalry 2 is a hero shooter I guess now too, all of which given there class based objective gameplay fit much closer in playstyle to Quake Fortress, TFC and TF2 (especially Wolfenstien).

Just because you see some base similarities, if you effectively classify an entire genre because it has cart pushing all I can say is that RE4 remake is now also a hero shooter (LEON HELP!) Splatoon 3 is a hero shooter, I mean the weapons are just "classes" right with rechargeable abilties and in anarchy battles you have to push a tower... obviously a hero shooter.

Overwatch at best could be argued to be a very boring class based shooter
Fine.
Lets ignore the "hero shooter" comment since you are fully hung up on that.

Why replicate Team Fortress 2.....what makes it unique in the current gaming landscape?
 

STARSBarry

Gold Member
Fine.
Lets ignore the "hero shooter" comment since you are fully hung up on that.

Why replicate Team Fortress 2.....what makes it unique in the current gaming landscape?

"Relatively" large scale objective based gameplay (16v16) with a focus on "casual" over "competitive". While TF2 does have a competitive scene and even a competitive mode an overwhelming majority of the playerbase don't touch it. Because the game was never designed for it, this means the balancing is off there is a huge list or "banned" weapons in competitive because they make serious play impossible, the game was never made to be taken seriously, however they did the best they could to jerry rig in a mode to shut them up.


Has overwatch ever banned a hero from competitive play for years because it breaks the balance? Thats a huge diffrence in design and balance philosophy and its why TF2 allows matches with 12 pyros on the team not just one (unless is snorefest highlander competitive that no one plays) they are however allowed in the main game because they are insanely stupid/fun to fuck around with.

People still play the objective of course, but there's always this knowledge that your engaging because it's fun and at any time you could drop that and fuck around with the enemy team. You get this in Chivalry 2 funnily enough, where players will just randomly stop in the middle of a sword fight to do stupid shit, because there are enough players to allow for this to happen and still win a game, casual over competitive makes a huge diffrence in the design of the rest of the game, from the weapons to the map design and loadouts of each class, you can be far less restrictive.

That push for hyper competitive design is why hero shooters work the way they do, that's why there is infinite ammo only reloads, because the game is designed so you can constantly move forward, it's why abilties have cooldowns instead of being a limited supply item, they took anything that had the potential to slow the game down and removed and stream lined it. Hero shooters are unique because they take the design philosophy of a MOBA which looked at the RTS genre and trimmed all the fat off it to the Class based shooter. It's not the same game because its a completely diffrent genre when playing it, its why a MOBA is not an RTS.

TF2 is still unique and played to this day because it hasn't really had a competitor, everyone has focussed on trying to make their title the next big esport for so long now that the old class based shooter has essentially been replaced. TF2 is only unique because its compatriots in the genre just are not there anymore and everyone else is creating hyper competitive F2P games to try and attract the sweatlords.

As for this game in question... 3 v 3 v 3 v 3... well that's just screaming competitive once again, small teams, big plays, just like everything else. There are so many many games that are begging for the attention of these players, its like they don't realise that there's a huge opening for a game that let's you fuck around now and again. The large scale casual class shooter has an opening, but no one seems to be interested in taking it.



I'd rather be seeing more of this... its far more rare.
 
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Black_Stride

do not tempt fate do not contrain Wonder Woman's thighs do not do not
"Relatively" large scale objective based gameplay (16v16) with a focus on "casual" over "competitive". While TF2 does have a competitive scene and even a competitive mode an overwhelming majority of the playerbase don't touch it. Because the game was never designed for it, this means the balancing is off there is a huge list or "banned" weapons in competitive because they make serious play impossible, the game was never made to be taken seriously, however they did the best they could to jerry rig in a mode to shut them up.


Has overwatch ever banned a hero from competitive play for years because it breaks the balance? Thats a huge diffrence in design and balance philosophy and its why TF2 allows matches with 12 pyros on the team not just one (unless is snorefest highlander competitive that no one plays) they are however allowed in the main game because they are insanely stupid/fun to fuck around with.

People still play the objective of course, but there's always this knowledge that your engaging because it's fun and at any time you could drop that and fuck around with the enemy team. You get this in Chivalry 2 funnily enough, where players will just randomly stop in the middle of a sword fight to do stupid shit, because there are enough players to allow for this to happen and still win a game, casual over competitive makes a huge diffrence in the design of the rest of the game, from the weapons to the map design and loadouts of each class, you can be far less restrictive.

That push for hyper competitive design is why hero shooters work the way they do, that's why there is infinite ammo only reloads, because the game is designed so you can constantly move forward, it's why abilties have cooldowns instead of being a limited supply item, they took anything that had the potential to slow the game down and removed and stream lined it. Hero shooters are unique because they take the design philosophy of a MOBA which looked at the RTS genre and trimmed all the fat off it to the Class based shooter. It's not the same game because its a completely diffrent genre when playing it, its why a MOBA is not an RTS.

TF2 is still unique and played to this day because it hasn't really had a competitor, everyone has focussed on trying to make their title the next big esport for so long now that the old class based shooter has essentially been replaced. TF2 is only unique because its compatriots in the genre just are not there anymore and everyone else is creating hyper competitive F2P games to try and attract the sweatlords.

As for this game in question... 3 v 3 v 3 v 3... well that's just screaming competitive once again, small teams, big plays, just like everything else. There are so many many games that are begging for the attention of these players, its like they don't realise that there's a huge opening for a game that let's you fuck around now and again. The large scale casual class shooter has an opening, but no one seems to be interested in taking it.



I'd rather be seeing more of this... its far more rare.


You are comparing it to Apex Legends....which I still dont see, and HyperScape....which I see even less of.
And want more TF2 like games, but your description of why TF2 is unique is effectively that its "more casual" and can have 16v16(which is less than BFs 32v32) so you can NOT PTFO and muck about because someone else on the team with PTFO?


3 v 3 v 3 v 3 for a game thats mixing heist/ctf/control into one game mode with massive destruction sounds like an absolute blast and actually unique.
Are there many other games that have a 3 v 3 v 3 v 3 heist/control mode?
I cant even think of one off head, im sure someone will mention that one obscure game on steam thats actually super popular or whatever.
 

Klik

Member
After this fiasco, he has trust issues.

Not to give excuses but Watchogs was crossgen game(game that is made for PS3/X360) and well honestly back then even midrange 400$ was more powerful than PS4/X1.

This time its completely different story.
 

Arachnid

Member
Lol. What makes you think this is pre-rendered? This is as close to gameplay as its gonna get. It even has a disclaimer saying it's Alpha Footage. Have some faith dude jesus...
The closed alpha starts tomorrow, so they will be no shortage of gameplay to put those fears to rest (hopefully) pretty soon.

If there is anyone I trust to build a beautiful destruction and physics engine like that, it's former DICE devs.

You should probably post script that with he was EA GAMES head when DICE made Battlefield 4 and Battlefield 1.
Also, greenlit TitanFall, TitanFall 2, Star Wars Battlefront, Unravel and Mirrors Edge Catalyst.

He wasnt CEO of DICE when Battlefield V came out.......but Ill preface that BFV was actually awesome to play.
No one shouted woke at Battlefield 1, which also had women, black people and weird customization but the trailers werent "messy" so people who dont actually play Battlefield didnt have anything to bitch about.
BFV played great, though they did a kinda shit job supporting it until the pacific update (which was too late and too little). The QOL changes like sprinting while crouched and the buildable fortifications were fantastic too. Also the best feeling gunplay in a BF game.

Still not a fan of this guy. I don't think most fans really care about wokeness (BF1 like you said), vs this guys attitude and the god awful BFV trailer that set everyone off.
 
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Men_in_Boxes

Snake Oil Salesman
If the best the former Battlefield devs can come up with is Apex Legends mixed with Hyperscape I'm pretty sure the market is due anouther crash right about now.
This isn't a Battle Royale. It's 4 teams of 3 grabbing boxes and taking them to control points to bank score.

I don't have high hopes for it as it feels more arena shootery to me and those games have been crashing for a decade. Maybe there's more to the game than the trailer suggests though.
 
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Arachnid

Member
Bleh more bland military shooters? No thanks

This is visually so much more interesting than any battlefield game. I’d be fine with CoD becoming the sole big military shooter from this point forward. Leave taht shit in the ps3/360 era
Nothing bland about BF. There was nothing like it before Squad. Still nothing that compares on console. This reads like you've never played a BF game.

I love arena shooters like this and CoD to a point, but they aren't substitutes for BF style mass warfare with tanks, artillery, helis, and jets.
 
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Fart Knight

Al Pachinko, Konami President
GIF by Giphy QA
 

Dr_Salt

Member
The closed alpha starts tomorrow, so they will be no shortage of gameplay to put those fears to rest (hopefully) pretty soon.

If there is anyone I trust to build a beautiful destruction and physics engine like that, it's former DICE devs.
They aren't gonna allow any streaming or video capture of the game.
 

Arachnid

Member
The same way all the other games do it for their alphas on steam.

https://www.hitc.com/en-gb/2022/09/27/the-finals-alpha-release-date-start-time-steam/
Is there not ways around that though? Sounds like expecting people to not leak when under NDA, which I've seen multiple times completely disregarded (of course NDAs are more of a lawful trust system, but it seems unrealistic to think no one of all the alpha players will launch gameplay.


Sorry if this is still kind of stupid on my part. I've never actually taken part in an alpha so I'm unaware if there really isn't a work around. There are work arounds for the kind of people who like to pirate stuff, so why would something like screen recording be off the table? Whats to stop someone from using a camera, or casting to another device, or just straight up using a cord to put the image on another comp and record from there?
 

Klik

Member
Did anyone got some email confirmation about closed alpha playtest? I applied but didn't got any respons or confirmation.
Alpha should start today, 29.09
 
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saintjules

Member
I want to try this out considering who the studio is made up of even though i'm more interested in the ARC Raiders game being made by them. Sadly this is PC only at least for the beta right now and I don't currently game on PC.

It would be a big disservice if it's PC only. I think it will come to Console as well.
 

EverydayBeast

thinks Halo Infinite is a new graphical benchmark
Just bring freakin’ cod 2-4 back shooters at this point are lost given the choice give me battlefield, widely reported much improved not these overly emotional pc inspired shooters that STINK.
 

clarky

Gold Member
Did anyone got some email confirmation about closed alpha playtest? I applied but didn't got any respons or confirmation.
Alpha should start today, 29.09
I got mine a couple of hours ago, stuck at work just now but i'll be having a bash at some point later on. Only registered the other day. They have warned that this is definitely a proper alpha so expect lots of bug glitches and unbalanced stuff.
 

MiguelItUp

Gold Member
Anything that's not a BR at this point will get my attention no matter what. Or shows some kind of creativity. There's stuff about this that looks really interesting, but I'm gonna wait until I see full on footage myself.
 

StueyDuck

Member
apart from the dumb love death and robots ripoff trailer style, this actually looks pretty interesting.

plus you can 100% see where all those Ex DICE employees went, those sprint animations are almost 1 to 1 from BFV
 

clarky

Gold Member
Still no impressions..lol from anyone
Looks alright not had time other than a quick go. Only on a 2080 laptop as im away from home just now but i can imagine on my 3080 desktop it would look pretty much as it did in that trailer. I'll have a proper bash later and report back.

First impressions are it seems decent enough for an alpha. Worth checking out, its only a 5gb download. The usual FTP trimmings like them or not. Battle pass skins etc etc (its all free here).
 
Looks alright not had time other than a quick go. Only on a 2080 laptop as im away from home just now but i can imagine on my 3080 desktop it would look pretty much as it did in that trailer. I'll have a proper bash later and report back.

First impressions are it seems decent enough for an alpha. Worth checking out, its only a 5gb download. The usual FTP trimmings like them or not. Battle pass skins etc etc (its all free here).
Yesssss thank you for the impressions bro. How's the combat feel is it similar to BF or? I got a 3090 i wanna crank this game up loll
 

nikos

Member
Game is fun and actually runs really well for an alpha. Feels good when you're playing as a team. Concept is fresh. Destructibility is pretty insane. Lots of environmental stuff placed around the map. Gunplay is good and I'm sure will improve over time. Time to kill feels good. Movement could use some improvement but isn't bad at all. Looking forward to seeing where the game goes.
 

Men_in_Boxes

Snake Oil Salesman
Game is fun and actually runs really well for an alpha. Feels good when you're playing as a team. Concept is fresh. Destructibility is pretty insane. Lots of environmental stuff placed around the map. Gunplay is good and I'm sure will improve over time. Time to kill feels good. Movement could use some improvement but isn't bad at all. Looking forward to seeing where the game goes.

What's the gameplay loop? What are you actually doing from match start to end of match screen?
 

Closer

Member
I thought this name was fitting for a VR horror game where you are locked in a class trying to pass an exam of something, not this.
 
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