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[joe_zazen]

Do you really feel it when you kill them? As games get more advanced, I wonder if we will come to a point where even killing NPCs becomes a little too realistic for comfort. It's hard to imagine anyone getting really upset about killing a dog in a 16-bit game, but I could understand it being upsetting for some people in TLOU2. Ween't some IGN people upset about the new Call of Duty? Maybe next gen could be a turning point in that regard.

Yeah, it is getting close to that point for me in regular games and i can see next gen being a tipping point. Some neuroscience has been done wrt empathy by showing images of real humans in various degrees of pain and using neural imaging to map areas of activity. Images do affects brains of humans with working consciences (we should test politicians this way before electing them).

So getting super realistic games that involve pain and death could definitely be a turn off for non-psychopaths + non-sociopaths. It could theoretically damage early childhood development of empathy. And then you have to wonder about the developers who will spend 40+ hours a week surrounded by this materials. We’ll see what happens.

 

[Shagger]

I have no problem killing digital dogs.
It’s only a matter of time before they join forces like real dogs and come after us.
Actual news:

Clearly we need tougher gun laws for dogs.

If I die because I was shot by a dog, I'd request to go to hell because I would be to embarrassed to walk up the the pearly gates with that story.

 

[DeepEnigma]

If I die because I was shot by a dog, I'd request to go to hell because I would be to embarrassed to walk up the the pearly gates with that story.

What is dog spelled backwards though?

 

[flashfire926]

Killing thousands of people is perfectly fine, but killing a dog is crossing the line.

I dont get it.

 

[Shagger]

What is dog spelled backwards though?

Good point. Makes sence that D-O-G is man's best friend, flip it round the opposite way and G-O-D becomes man's greatest crime.

 

[alabtrosMyster]

Is funny as hell tho, all these naysayers will be jumping like lil girls once they see UPS truck pull up with a copy

I'm already jumping

We’ll see.

He also tweeted it.

Here is my mentality. Dogs have been constant companions since 12 years old. I have been with 4 dogs as they died, and it fucking broke my heart each time.

Sorry for your dogs, I lost one when I was around 5 and it still saddens me to think about it, I am also saddened when I think of my grand father who died when I was 14... I still don't get flashbacks when killing ennemies in video games, either humans or animals.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Good point. Makes sence that D-O-G is man's best friend, flip it round the opposite way and G-O-D becomes man's greatest crime.

Or, man are loyal servants to G-O-D; above us on the hierarchy scale, and some sinister senses of humor labeled this animal D-O-G since they are loyal servants to man; higher on a hierarchy scale.

 

[Clear]

Yeah, it is getting close to that point for me in regular games and i can see next gen being a tipping point. Some neuroscience has been done wrt empathy by showing images of real humans in various degrees of pain and using neural imaging to map areas of activity. Images do affects brains of humans with working consciences (we should test politicians this way before electing them).

So getting super realistic games that involve pain and death could definitely be a turn off for non-psychopaths + non-sociopaths. It could theoretically damage early childhood development of empathy. And then you have to wonder about the developers who will spend 40+ hours a week surrounded by this materials. We’ll see what happens.

Devs are the people least likely to be affected. Graphics are an illusionary facade which you are constantly aware of being unreal and just being there to provoke an appropriate response. The big lie with this sort of verisimilitude is that it requires imagery and footage of actual crimes and atrocities to accurately model. This is of course utter horseshit. The goal is always "cinematic realism", because frankly the reality is much less visually and aesthetically impacting. People do not pop like blood-filled balloons when they get shot, they simply and undramatically fall over. Still. Leaking claret.

On the other hand "cinematic realism" should be welcomed, because if you dehumanize targets past the point of empathy they become much easier to kill regardless of whether they are fake or real. Essentially its the difference between killing an enemy, and "killing" an abstracted cut-out of that enemy in combat training. Both represent the same target but its entirely self evident that one thing is much higher stakes than the other.

If that target was begging for its life. or crying out in pain when winged its a whole other ball-game.

Sanitizing violence makes it more perniciously appealing than if there is some sort of aversive component. Which is essentially what they are doing here. Objectively you shouldn't feel really bad about it, as all you've done is interacted with a digital figment of somebody else's imagination, built exclusively for the purpose of being a target. However if this same fiction evokes an emotional response in the moment, that's ethically and artistically the sweet spot.

 

[Ar¢tos]

Killing thousands of people is perfectly fine, but killing a dog is crossing the line.

I dont get it.

It's the next stage of the snowflake syndrome evolution. This is just the start. Next step, remove all violent actions from games. Games will all be walking simulators like Ether One or side quest simulators like Doki-Doki Universe.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Devs are the people least likely to be affected. Graphics are an illusionary facade which you are constantly aware of being unreal and just being there to provoke an appropriate response. The big lie with this sort of verisimilitude is that it requires imagery and footage of actual crimes and atrocities to accurately model. This is of course utter horseshit. The goal is always "cinematic realism", because frankly the reality is much less visually and aesthetically impacting. People do not pop like blood-filled balloons when they get shot, they simply and undramatically fall over. Still. Leaking claret.

On the other hand "cinematic realism" should be welcomed, because if you dehumanize targets past the point of empathy they become much easier to kill regardless of whether they are fake or real. Essentially its the difference between killing an enemy, and "killing" an abstracted cut-out of that enemy in combat training. Both represent the same target but its entirely self evident that one thing is much higher stakes than the other.

If that target was begging for its life. or crying out in pain when winged its a whole other ball-game.

Sanitizing violence makes it more perniciously appealing than if there is some sort of aversive component. Which is essentially what they are doing here. Objectively you shouldn't feel really bad about it, as all you've done is interacted with a digital figment of somebody else's imagination, built exclusively for the purpose of being a target. However if this same fiction evokes an emotional response in the moment, that's ethically and artistically the sweet spot.

It is the research that impacts some of them.

'I'd Have These Extremely Graphic Dreams': What It's Like To Work On …

archived 14 May 2019 22:44:20 UTC

archive.is

 

[mcjmetroid]

I am look if it bothers you that much then don't play it but it's not a real dog obviously.

I'd go into this further but plenty of people have said it already.

It's your own personal choice and in fairness you weren't being a dick about it so some replies are being a tad bit harsh.

 

[Visualift]

It is more a case of me not finding it entertaining or enjoyable.

But killing humans is entertaining and enjoyable. LOL

 

[SmoothRunningGun]

They aren't real dogs. Also simulated people murder is ok, but not doggies?

 

[Shifty1897]

I didn't go through the whole thread to see if this was already mentioned but the latest Easy Allies video about TLOU2 said the person showing them the demo said you could get through the whole level without killing a dog.

 

[SmoothRunningGun]

I guess everyone beat me to this point but this seems really silly. Plus these dogs are trying to chew your face off.

 

[TwilightPrincess]

..... and how your dog gets killed.

I thought that was her girlfriend.

 

[Come On Tars]

Just beat the shit out of a horse in Ass Creed origins and the rag doll was tremendous. Now I don't trust horses irl, but I would never hurt one.

 

[thanosg]

well the dogs are attacking you, so it's just self defense. if they don't attack I'll avoid them for sure

 

[raduque]

I don't have a problem killing attacking guard dogs, but I would probably just try to avoid them instead.

In Wolfenstein II, the dog was your pet. You raised him and it was supposed to feel terrible killing him. That was the ENTIRE POINT of that scene.

I don't think I shot the dog in WolfII. I can't remember what happened afterward.

But then, I am pretty sure I didn't even shoot anybody during "No Russian", either.

Blair Witch fucked with my head though Let dying dogs lie

And will it be possible to use a dog as a silencer for my murdering-arsenal ?
After all, Postal 2 already achieved peak realism in 2003...


... and we shouldn't accept less in 2020 !

Huh... beware cat-being-used-as-a-silencer-for-a-shotgun-trigger-warning...

IIRC, the cat was fine after you removed it! Cracked me up! Postal 2 was great.

 

[Shakka43]

I'll make sure to double tap them in your honor.

 

[brian0057]

 

[stickkidsam]

But killing humans is entertaining and enjoyable. LOL

As a dude who feels bad killing monsters in a game called Monster Hunter and who would spend hours in games I'm bad at attempting a no kill run against human NPC's, I can relate.

Killing fake people provokes a weird empathy as it is. Brutally killing a fake dog feels the same way, if not "worse" because this fake dog has no fake stake in this fake fight. He's just doing what good bois do. You feel kinda bad being the one to pull the trigger.

All that said, at the end of the day I will mow down thousands of Shadows in the name of a good time. Just gotta get in the right groove.

*DOOM theme intensifies*

 

[Gun Animal]

say what you will but this is at least the correct use of trigger warnings

 

[Bryank75]

COD has had you killing dogs for years.... a big deal was never made about it.
Is it the context or fidelity that makes it seem different?

 

[Clear]

It is the research that impacts some of them.

'I'd Have These Extremely Graphic Dreams': What It's Like To Work On …

archived 14 May 2019 22:44:20 UTC

archive.is

Typical Kotaku bullshit. Don't believe a word of it. Seriously.

If doing research for a video game gives you PTSD you are either (1) doing it really wrong, or more likely (2) have less spine than a jellyfish and are so pathetically fragile that reality is too much for you.

Not to say that creating digital gore is going to be in everyone's wheelhouse, but that being the case why in the Christing fuck would you choose to work at a studio that specializes in that sort of entertainment?

 

[Chris23]

 

[alabtrosMyster]

So getting super realistic games that involve pain and death could definitely be a turn off for non-psychopaths + non-sociopaths. It could theoretically damage early childhood development of empathy. And then you have to wonder about the developers who will spend 40+ hours a week surrounded by this materials. We’ll see what happens.

Some of that stuff is genuinely horrible, I'm sure that when it gets too realistic it could cause actual problems. A lot of people like actual gory stuff, but some of these images of dismembered people, or people getting beaten, can mess you up, or at the very least they stay in your mind for a long time.

I would say God of War 3 is the first video game that made me feel uncomfortable with the level (more how it's depicted) of violence in some areas... otherwise, some images I saw on an early website still aunt me 20 years later.

I don't let my kids near the games I play, they get the cartoony or pixel art stuff.

If doing research for a video game gives you PTSD you are either (1) doing it really wrong, or more likely (2) have less spine than a jellyfish and are so pathetically fragile that reality is too much for you.

Not to say that creating digital gore is going to be in everyone's wheelhouse, but that being the case why in the Christing fuck would you choose to work at a studio that specializes in that sort of entertainment?

It's not a question of spine, it's about having some level of empathy, The stuff people who design games like the recent mortal kombat games, and very likely The Last of Us probably have to see is very disturbing, assuming they found some videos and images of actual people being killed and/or dismembered in different ways (no props), you're supposed to react to this.

I'm not sure about PTSD, but there is definitely something there.

 

[Wolfgang Jr]

 

[Explosive Zombie]

I love dogs more than people, I get upset when dogs get killed in horror movies and shit like that, a recent horror movie legit got extra points from me just for not killing the damn dog which movie in spoilers...

Spoiler

Crawl

... all of that said, if the dogs attack me in Dark Souls or Resident Evil or whatever the fuck I will lay down all the gun fire, sword throws, magic spells and napalm upon them. They will wish they had never made it out of a kennel. And Honestly, not playing one of the most hype games ever over doggy deaths is just ridiculous, it upsets me in silly horror flicks but even those I won't sacrifice to avoid seeing a dog die.

Btw, got 3 dogs currently, just for fun... here's some pics!!

 

[xrnzaaas]

Naw, to many people are getting pet pigs.
Giant rats will be the only enemy.

Hey man, that's not cool, I used to own (dumbo) rats as pets.

 

[mcz117chief]

Naw, to many people are getting pet pigs.
Giant rats will be the only enemy.

Rats are cool. Besides we gotta honor the Desert Rats and The Rat Patrol.

 

[Ar¢tos]

 

[Clear]

It's not a question of spine, it's about having some level of empathy, The stuff people who design games like the recent mortal kombat games, and very likely The Last of Us probably have to see is very disturbing, assuming they found some videos and images of actual people being killed and/or dismembered in different ways (no props), you're supposed to react to this.

Bullshit. So paramedics, or OR nurses, or firefighters, or hell, even cops and military personnel have no empathy now, despite being put in situations far more stressful and unpleasant SIMPLY DURING TRAINING than looking at reference materials for a fucking game.

I'm so sick of people blaming their environment for their own fragility and weakness. You can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen, because if you can't hack it, I assure you there are plenty of people who can, and would relish the opportunity.

 

[Fahdis]

I'm killing rats, dogs, horses, people or whatever the game requires me to do. It's not real life, so I'm fine. Bringing morals up in video games is akin to agreeing with people who agree that "vIdEo GAmEs PrOmOTE vIoLENce". Follow the narrative, have fun. Some people didn't play "No Russian" in MW2, I'm like I guess the developer wants to set a narrative and wants me to feel something... I felt nothing. And I would have felt nothing even if I hadn't played that mission.