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[patsu]

You and others want something that was not planned at the start and they have no interest in doing it, and you're all crying about it and begging like 7 year old children when their parents say no to them. It's not happening, move on.

It sounded like the faintest Move thought hasn't even floated in their mind at all. XD

I remember inFamous 2 was in the same situation. The developers didn't consider it in 2009 (during development). They added a superb implementation in 2010.

TTP is just giving them a firm tug to nudge them along. As for what comes out of it, I think it's all up to ND.

 

[Evolved1]

Well... I was trying to catch up with this new thread after taking my finals today. Super excited to learn if I'd missed anything.

Have to say though those first 5 - 6 pages are a huge downer... this forum kind of sucks sometimes.

Might as well start media blackout..... now.


edit: I have compelte faith in ND. Good luck guys! and pssst.... dont compromise to please people who are never happy anyway.

 

[Grakl]

Can't wait, really want gaming to progress as an art form. This doesn't need motion controls.

 

[Amir0x]

The team they have put together for this and the quote that they basically thought hey lets make a whole game around the section of UC2 that is drake and Tenzin(Best part of the whole series for me) makes me extremely hopeful that were looking at a lot of potential. Plus even in UC3 when ND want to create a serious moment

Spoiler

Drake is a orphan ect.

they handled it better than almost any other developer I have seen.

I don't see it. Uncharted story is D-tier movie fodder; it's got a script that would probably make the Tomb Raider movie seem competent by comparison. They do amazing things with the way characters move and look that give it the appearance of compelling emotion, but the actual meat of the story is shallow garbage. Characters drop in and out with no real relevance; Uncharted 3 is spent half the game with Chloe and Jason Statham and then they disappear and almost never appear for the rest of the game. The sense of character progression is truly awful in the series. Sully just was like "nah dude I'm too old" in U2 and then he's back in the fray in U3, no problem. The old lady had zero characterization whatsoever in U3. She seemed menacing in the videos, but there was nothing there there.

Stories in games are naturally difficult to tell because there's an incongruity between who these characters are and the game you have to play in between. And few games ever can beat the odds with completely refocusing on story, usually to the detriment of gameplay.

So far Naughty Dog has written 3 extremely pulpy serials that were enormously inconsistent at best and if I'm being generous, were about as quality as King Solomon's Mines - and I mean the 2004 TV show, not even the 80's flick.

This is like when David Cage from Quantum Dream said that they want to make videogame stories on par with Stanley Kubrick and David Fincher. I mean they can say it, but I'll believe it when I see it.

 

[Emwitus]

I don't see it. Uncharted story is D-tier movie fodder; it's got a script that would probably make the Tomb Raider movie seem competent by comparison. They do amazing things with the way characters move and look that give it the appearance of compelling emotion, but the actual meat of the story is shallow garbage. Characters drop in and out with no real relevance; Uncharted 3 is spent half the game with Chloe and Jason Statham and then they disappear and almost never appear for the rest of the game. The sense of character progression is truly awful in the series. Sully just was like "nah dude I'm too old" in U2 and then he's back in the fray in U3, no problem. The old lady had zero characterization whatsoever in U3. She seemed menacing in the videos, but there was nothing there there.

Stories in games are naturally difficult to tell because there's an incongruity between whose these characters are and the game you have to play in between. And few games ever can beat the odds with completely refocusing on story, usually to the detriment of gameplay.

So far Naughty Dog has written 3 extremely pulpy serials that were enormously inconsistent at best and if I'm being generous, were about as quality as King Solomon's Mines - and I mean the 2004 TV show, not even the 80's flick.

This is like when David Cage from Quantum Dream said that they want to make videogame stories on par with Stanley Kubrick and David Fincher. I mean they can say it, but I'll believe it when I see it.

Atleast they try. Videogame scripts remind of 80s cinema. I dont know why people hate on David cage for what he did with heavy rain. He never hid anything from his audience, you know what you got when you bought heavy rain.

EDIT: And for what it's worth, their aint no shame in imitating kubrick and David fincher.

 

[Chuck Norris]

They write characters brilliantly IMO... They don't seem to put much effort on the actual plot of their games though, but I see them making a bigger effort in this one.

However, if this game relies a lot on their relationship (like ND has said) then it should be pretty interesting to see how they develop that writing between them and the story.

Its pretty obvious they have kept the Uncharted games rather shallow in many ways to keep to the genre they identify with

EDIT:

I don't see it. Uncharted story is D-tier movie fodder; it's got a script that would probably make the Tomb Raider movie seem competent by comparison. They do amazing things with the way characters move and look that give it the appearance of compelling emotion, but the actual meat of the story is shallow garbage. Characters drop in and out with no real relevance; Uncharted 3 is spent half the game with Chloe and Jason Statham and then they disappear and almost never appear for the rest of the game. The sense of character progression is truly awful in the series. Sully just was like "nah dude I'm too old" in U2 and then he's back in the fray in U3, no problem. The old lady had zero characterization whatsoever in U3. She seemed menacing in the videos, but there was nothing there there.

Stories in games are naturally difficult to tell because there's an incongruity between whose these characters are and the game you have to play in between. And few games ever can beat the odds with completely refocusing on story, usually to the detriment of gameplay.

So far Naughty Dog has written 3 extremely pulpy serials that were enormously inconsistent at best and if I'm being generous, were about as quality as King Solomon's Mines - and I mean the 2004 TV show, not even the 80's flick.

This is like when David Cage from Quantum Dream said that they want to make videogame stories on par with Stanley Kubrick and David Fincher. I mean they can say it, but I'll believe it when I see it.

Again more tropes that Naughty Dog adhere to for the worse IMO. Or at least failures of their genre that Naughty Dog have identified as tropes. You watch an Indiana Jones movie and it features the same tropes, inconsistent secondary characters who just go in and out of the stories, a primary character who has a lot of unexplored depth and villains who have a menacing demeanour the whole way through but there isn't much to them. I really wish Amy Hannig would break free of the shackles of the genre and do something original and more compelling with it

Its almost like they are saying "if its good enough to be in a movie its good enough for us" but its not, it could be much better

 

[Amir0x]

Atleast they try. Videogame scripts remind of 80s cinema. I dont why people hate on David cage for what he did with heavy rain. He never hid anything from his audience, you know what you got when you bought heavy rain.

EDIT: And for what it's worth, their aint no shame in imitating kubrick and David fincher.

There's no shame in imitating Kubrick or David Fincher. Problem is David Cage "imitated" them like a rabid dog "imitates" painting the Mona Lisa. David Cage is a horrendous writer and has absolutely no clue about what makes good story arcs, and his games suffer for it. No need to go down the Heavy Rain train in this topic, though. Everyone knows its near endless problems

 

[pvpness]

Amir0x nails it. While they're trying to make a movie, I hope they remember that it's a game first and foremost and should be treated as such. God help ya ND, many have attempted this path and failed miserably.

I'd much rather they focused on what they are really good at, which imo is action satisfaction. I'll hope for the best.

 

[GorillaJu]

Heavy Rain's story was passable for what he wanted to do. Please dont shit up another thread.

 

[Emwitus]

There's no shame in imitating Kubrick or David Fincher. Problem is David Cage "imitated" them like a rabid dog "imitates" painting the Mona Lisa. David Cage is a horrendous writer and has absolutely no clue about what makes good story arcs, and his games suffer for it. No need to go down the Heavy Rain train in this topic, though.

My point is, he tried. Who should he imitate? Infinity ward? It was a valid effort that was recognized by industry vets. My question to you? Who does a better job at what both david cage and naughty dog set out to do. And do not give me a set of parameters on what you think a game should be please.
@pvp
I think they do, uncharted 2 is a better video game movie than metal gear solid 4 is it not?

 

[ProfessorMoran]

My point is, he tried. Who should he imitate? Infinity ward? It was a valid effort that was recognized by industry vets. My question to you? Who does a better job at what both david cage and naughty dog set out to do. And do not give me a set of parameters on what you think a game should be please.
@pvp
I think they do, uncharted 2 is a better video game movie than metal gear solid 4 is it not?

Uncharted 2 is a better game than Metal Gear Solid 4.

 

[Amir0x]

Heavy Rain's story was passable for what he wanted to do. Please dont shit up another thread.

If you don't want to participate in the conversation, don't participate. Real simple.

My point is, he tried. Who should he imitate? Infinity ward? It was a valid effort that was recognized by industry vets. My question to you? Who does a better job at what both david cage and naughty dog set out to do. And do not give me a set of parameters on what you think a game should be please.

Hey if you want to award brownie points for "trying" be my guest. But for me it's not the trying that matters. At the end of the day people spend $60 on these games and there better be an awful lot more than trying - there has to be success.

As for who does a better job at what Naughty Dog and David Cage set out to do, I suspect you probably have a different idea of what you think they "set out to do." If what they "set out to do" was make a story that was well written, they failed. And if that failed, I'm not sure what else I'm supposed to look for exactly. Bad writing, shit story. The end as far as I'm concerned.

Uncharted games have some good gameplay (in between the platforming bits anyway), and that's what I try to focus on when I play them. And the graphics. They're amazing.

 

[KingK]

Wow, this thread got pretty big fast. I bailed at like page 6 last night. Anything I miss since then other than the big Eurogamer article in the OP?

 

[Amir0x]

Wow, this thread got pretty big fast. I bailed at like page 6 last night. Anything I miss since then other than the big Eurogamer article in the OP?

just seems like mostly pages and pages of people lamenting lack of MOVE support and others making fun of those people for doing that

 

[GorillaJu]

My point is, he tried. Who should he imitate? Infinity ward? It was a valid effort that was recognized by industry vets. My question to you? Who does a better job at what both david cage and naughty dog set out to do. And do not give me a set of parameters on what you think a game should be please.
@pvp
I think they do, uncharted 2 is a better video game movie than metal gear solid 4 is it not?

Uncharted 2 is one of the best video games
I've ever played period. Mgs4 not so much.

There isn't a seperate category for "movie games." I'm not going to automatically undermine the quality of some excellent work by putting them in a sub category because they use non-interactive cut scenes to do the storytelling.

Nearly every game does this, and a lot of games that don't just stick you in a 1st person camera and the cut scenes happen just the same, you only get to look around while it's going on.

And the Uncharted 2 story/dialog is a lot better than what you get in a D-tier movie. It's not A-tier but it's edgier, funnier and subtler than the contemporary movies it most closely resembles (like National Treasure).

 

[Emwitus]

@Amirox

Would you agree that they set out to make the story a greater part of gameplay "experience" than most in the industry? The issue here is, the Last of Us, being built as an experience for us to enjoy would be determental to the game. Why? All i get from you is "IF THEY DO NOT HAVE AN OSCAR CALLIBUR STORY IN THE LAST OF US GET RID OF IT". How does that make sense? Uncharted has a 96 on its meta because most critics, and, im sure people here on gaf thought it succeeded in integrating cinema and gameplay. As long as the Last of us and the next david cage build on what they did i see know reason not to applaud their efforts.

 

[yurinka]

I don't know if this game will fit with Move, but I'm pretty sure Uncharted would work perfectly with it, just like Infamous does.

They added it later, so this proves that isn't that difficult nor needs a lot of resources.

 

[KingK]

just seems like mostly pages and pages of people lamenting lack of MOVE support and others making fun of those people for doing that

People are actually upset about lack of Move? I mean, I guess it'd be nice for people who like it to have it be an optional thing if they had the time, but I'm really relieved actually to hear that it's not a focus of theirs.

Anyway, I really like what I'm hearing in that Eurogamer article. Hilarious that he lost his iPad on a plane and it still wasn't leaked. Hopefully they do manage to get the game out next year, but it is definitely reassuring to hear that they will go to 2013 if they have to, and they aren't rushing the game.

 

[Chuck Norris]

If you don't want to participate in the conversation, don't participate. Real simple.



Hey if you want to award brownie points for "trying" be my guest. But for me it's not the trying that matters. At the end of the day people spend $60 on these games and there better be an awful lot more than trying - there has to be success.

As for who does a better job at what Naughty Dog and David Cage set out to do, I suspect you probably have a different idea of what you think they "set out to do." If what they "set out to do" was make a story that was well written, they failed. And if that failed, I'm not sure what else I'm supposed to look for exactly. Bad writing, shit story. The end as far as I'm concerned.

Uncharted games have some good gameplay (in between the platforming bits anyway), and that's what I try to focus on when I play them. And the graphics. They're amazing.

I don't think Naughty Dog failed at all in what it has tried to do in writing the Uncharted games

Unfortunately what they've tried to do is not very ambitious . And like a popcorn movie they've developed their script around the set pieces, which means all the highs and lows of the story are evoked by the explosions and such rather than any story developments. Its unfortunate they go this way because the quality of writing and acting within the context of the game is very high.

 

[Cartman86]

From the Eurogamer article the game sounds like exactly what it needs to be. The post apocalyptic "zombie" idea is overplayed sure, but no one in video games is doing it like film/comics etc have done it. Hope they can pull it off.

 

[Emwitus]

I don't think Naughty Dog failed at all in what it has tried to do in writing the Uncharted games

Unfortunately what they've tried to do is not very ambitious . And like a popcorn movie they've developed their script around the set pieces, which means all the highs and lows of the story are evoked by the explosions and such rather than any story developments. Its unfortunate they go this way because the quality of writing and acting within the context of the game is very high.

Hollywood does almost the same thing just so you know. The director always has a vision on what kind of set pieces they want in the movie.

 

[Amir0x]

@Amirox

Would you agree that they set out to make the story a greater part of gameplay "experience" than most in the industry? The issue here is, the Last of Us, being built as an experience for us to enjoy would be determental to the game. Why? All i get from you is "IF THEY DO NOT HAVE AN OSCAR CALLIBUR STORY IN THE LAST OF US GET RID OF IT". How does that make sense? Uncharted has a 96 on its meta because most critics and im sure people here on gaf thought it was clearly succeeded in integrating cinema and gameplay. As long as the Last of us and the next david cage build on what they did i see know reason not to applaud their efforts.

I'm not sure I'd agree they're any better at that then most devs. Uncharted had a story which was really badly written and really poorly integrated into the gameplay. The only real 'story integrated' moments were, like, when you get that breather at the Village in U2 and

Spoiler

Drake as a boy

part in U3. And even though the Village was brilliant to me (because it was an astoundingly effective 'breather' from the intense gameplay sequences you participated in prior), I didn't think they enhanced at all what was simply a really poor script, plot and story. It's arguable that moments like that are 'story integrated with gameplay', but the actual story and writing surrounding it is simply not good at all. At best, the banter between Sully and Drake or his other occasional companions constitutes "story integration", but all it amounted to is basically a series of non-stop one liners (extremely hit-or-miss, although Sully tends to hit more than he misses) and location acknowledgment ("that's a switch! Try to hit it Drake!" Nathan: "Not this shit again!" LOL) What they DID do well, however, contrary to most big games is they used the story as an excuse to make really awesome set piece scenes which WERE impressive. The train sequence and the collapsing building sequence, stuff like that which is generally separate from the writing but from a gameplay perspective was novel.

What you get from me is that this game sounds like they're doubling down on the "tell an engrossing story" aspect, and since Uncharted so far show that they're not really capable of that, I can only be skeptical. I'm not built on faith. You may be, but that's just not how I work.


We'll see. It's too early to know. Maybe this will be their story break out hit. I'm just a skeptic by heart until I see evidence of the potential to do more.

People are actually upset about lack of Move? I mean, I guess it'd be nice for people who like it to have it be an optional thing if they had the time, but I'm really relieved actually to hear that it's not a focus of theirs.

Anyway, I really like what I'm hearing in that Eurogamer article. Hilarious that he lost his iPad on a plane and it still wasn't leaked. Hopefully they do manage to get the game out next year, but it is definitely reassuring to hear that they will go to 2013 if they have to, and they aren't rushing the game.

I'm not upset at all. As far as I'm concerned that's a hype+1 for me

 

[Ravidrath]

So apparently Viacom owns The Last of Us?

...Because they made a DMCA request to have the trailer taken off of Naughty Dog's own channel.

http://www.youtube.com/user/NaughtyDog

 

[NotTheGuyYouKill]

So apparently Viacom owns The Last of Us?

...Because they made a DMCA request to have the trailer taken off of Naughty Dog's own channel.

http://www.youtube.com/user/NaughtyDog

That's... crazy? Viacom (owners of Spike, right?) made the same demand of Alan Wake: American Nightmare trailers apparently cause they wanted people to watch the GT VGAs for the footage.

That's what I read, anyways.

 

[Amir0x]

da fug? I guess they want to get viewers for their non-stop repeat viewings of the VGA's

 

[Raitosaito]

So apparently Viacom owns The Last of Us?

...Because they made a DMCA request to have the trailer taken off of Naughty Dog's own channel.

http://www.youtube.com/user/NaughtyDog

Spike and Viacom needs to just be blown to bits.

 

[Ravidrath]

da fug? I guess they want to get viewers for their non-stop repeat viewings of the VGA's

What was ND thinking, recording their own trailer off of the TV like that?

 

[KingK]

So apparently Viacom owns The Last of Us?

...Because they made a DMCA request to have the trailer taken off of Naughty Dog's own channel.

http://www.youtube.com/user/NaughtyDog

Tha fuck? Fucking viacom...

 

[nelsonroyale]

I don't see it. Uncharted story is D-tier movie fodder; it's got a script that would probably make the Tomb Raider movie seem competent by comparison. They do amazing things with the way characters move and look that give it the appearance of compelling emotion, but the actual meat of the story is shallow garbage. Characters drop in and out with no real relevance; Uncharted 3 is spent half the game with Chloe and Jason Statham and then they disappear and almost never appear for the rest of the game. The sense of character progression is truly awful in the series. Sully just was like "nah dude I'm too old" in U2 and then he's back in the fray in U3, no problem. The old lady had zero characterization whatsoever in U3. She seemed menacing in the videos, but there was nothing there there.

Stories in games are naturally difficult to tell because there's an incongruity between who these characters are and the game you have to play in between. And few games ever can beat the odds with completely refocusing on story, usually to the detriment of gameplay.

So far Naughty Dog has written 3 extremely pulpy serials that were enormously inconsistent at best and if I'm being generous, were about as quality as King Solomon's Mines - and I mean the 2004 TV show, not even the 80's flick.

This is like when David Cage from Quantum Dream said that they want to make videogame stories on par with Stanley Kubrick and David Fincher. I mean they can say it, but I'll believe it when I see it.

I think you are being far, far to generous to most of the trite that Hollywood is outputting these days.... Perhaps it is because I have different expectations when it comes to plots in games and in films. Certainly the interactivity often enables me to connect with characters in games such as Uncharted, which I would never to do in a film with the same plot and characters. I personally feel most current hollywood blockbusters deal with most complex issues in the shallowest way possible...ie when you factor in that you have an invested in a games story via interactivity, I find that I care more about where the story goes in many games over your average shitty hollywood blockbuster.

Having said that, I generally prefer films which have social comment, or are smaller budget and less focus group driven. However, one thing I do believe is that games should not look to hollywood for too much inspiration...it has been creatively bankrupt for years

 

[inky]

So apparently Viacom owns The Last of Us?

...Because they made a DMCA request to have the trailer taken off of Naughty Dog's own channel.

http://www.youtube.com/user/NaughtyDog

LOL, what a bunch of idiots.

 

[nib95]

@Amirox

Would you agree that they set out to make the story a greater part of gameplay "experience" than most in the industry? The issue here is, the Last of Us, being built as an experience for us to enjoy would be determental to the game. Why? All i get from you is "IF THEY DO NOT HAVE AN OSCAR CALLIBUR STORY IN THE LAST OF US GET RID OF IT". How does that make sense? Uncharted has a 96 on its meta because most critics, and, im sure people here on gaf thought it succeeded in integrating cinema and gameplay. As long as the Last of us and the next david cage build on what they did i see know reason not to applaud their efforts.

Uncharted absolutely integrated cinema and game. Amir0x can bang on all he wants about bad stories and characters or whatever, but the fact is UC2/3 have some of the best characters, dialogue and VA available in games today. It's one of the few games that has truly had me so engrossed in the characters and actually respond to their actions or dialogue with real emotion, generally with humour but others too.

Uncharted games have serviceable stories but nothing great, but that's not a huge problem since the focus is on the characters themselves. It's a character driven narrative. But there's no point comparing the narrative or script of Uncharted to something like Citzen Kane or A Clockwork Orange because that's not what it's trying to be. You compare it with something like Indiana Jones and in that regard its quite comparable.

 

[KingK]

Sweet shit, has the theme song been posted in here yet? I just found it on youtube.

So fuggin good. Should be added to the OP.

 

[Amir0x]

If there's one thing I'm pretty sure of, it's that this game is going to have a fucking astounding soundtrack. Gustavo Santaolalla is goddamn amazing.

 

[Ra1den]

The UC games have never excelled in the storyline department, which is why I've always been annoyed when people talk about the UC series "saving videogame stories" or other nonsense. Especially when compared to something like the MGS series which is far, far beyond anything UC has done.

The area they do excel in is some specific aspects of storytelling, namely convincing animation and enjoyable dialogue. This makes cutscenes a pleasure to watch.

And even though the stories themselves are nothing special, they are fine for the type of experience ND is going for.

 

[Emwitus]

@Amirox
Then your argument should be NAUGHTY DOG SHOULD GET A BETTER WRITER! Again, my angle is on how good their integration was. Stuff like the Collapsing building, the opening scene of uncharted 2, Desert scene in 3, End fight in 3 and , etc etc are all instances that would have been cutscenes in a game like MGS4 naughty dog integrated them into gameplay. So, going by your argument, if naughty dog have a better writer on The last of us they are safe?
EDIT: How do you put spoiler tags? ((((

 

[Amir0x]

The UC games have never excelled in the storyline department, which is why I've always been annoyed when people talk about the UC series "saving videogame stories" or other nonsense.

Hey I agree with this why don't we be fri--

Especially when compared to something like the MGS series which is far, far beyond anything UC has done.

--oh my god what!? *escapes*

 

[Ra1den]

--oh my god what!? *escapes*

People seem to forget that MGS existed before MGS4. And even MGS4 did a lot of things right, which made up for the things it did wrong.

 

[nib95]

The actual story in MGS is pretty awesome, it's just a bit messily put together and in need of some finer editing.

 

[inky]

MGS did a lot of things first, I wouldn't go as far as saying it did them well. I did enjoy MGS1's campy take on the Cold War era, but that's about it.

Yeah... no, not a discussion I'm prepared to have.

 

[Deleted member 30609]

Someone needed to tell Kojima back in the 90s that there's no award for most story.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

Sweet shit, has the theme song been posted in here yet? I just found it on youtube.

So fuggin good. Should be added to the OP.

That is already setting the tone right there. I cannot wait to have a hear to how his work accompanies the game.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

If you can understand him (Spanish), here is an interview about his (Gustavo Santaolalla) involvement in The Last of Us.

FML I didn't edit this in to my last post.

 

[UrbanRats]

The actual story in MGS is pretty awesome, it's just a bit messily put together and in need of some finer editing.

Well, when you throw a thousand apples, one or two are bound to end up in the basket.
MGS had basically a diarrhea of informations, ideas and themes, but it ended up just being a mess in the end, exactly because it was going nowhere.

 

[AranhaHunter]

So apparently Viacom owns The Last of Us?

...Because they made a DMCA request to have the trailer taken off of Naughty Dog's own channel.

http://www.youtube.com/user/NaughtyDog

LOL WTF? What are they saying? The original creators of the video showed the video first on our Spike TV channel so now we own it? I guess google temporarily takes down anything from one of its big youtube partners until it can be investigated or whatever.

EDIT: That's a good way for people to NOT want to premiere their games at the VGAs

 

[Globox_82]

So what now, they will have to change the name?!

 

[evolution]

I love what ND did with the characters in the uncharted franchise, I feel like I understand them more than characters in any other game i've played this generation. The games were about the characters anyways the story always played second fiddle. Now they want to go deeper and i'm all for that.

 

[Enco]

So what now, they will have to change the name?!

That would be ridiculous.

The name isn't that important but I like it.

 

[Deleted member 30609]

So what now, they will have to change the name?!

No, I suspect it's just for the trailer, and just a weird accidental legal shenanigan.

 

[Ravidrath]

I was being sarcastic about Viacom owning the rights to the game - this just seems like overzealous ContentID'ing.

...Clearly they just own the rights to the trailer, and Naughty Dog was irresponsible to make a game based on it. ;P

 

[KingK]

If you can understand him (Spanish), here is an interview about his (Gustavo Santaolalla) involvement in The Last of Us.

FML I didn't edit this in to my last post.

Would be nice to have a translation. I just discovered the dude yesterday when we learned he was doing this soundtrack.