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[COCKLES]

Interview with Larry Wachowski (from a longer audio interview) where he post some intresting stuff.

http://www.integralnaked.org/talk.aspx?id=205

As Ken points out, the first movie is fairly easy to grok: everything in the Matrix is bad, everything outside of the Matrix is good. Everyone inside the Matrix is trapped, everyone outside the Matrix is free, and so on. But twenty minutes into part 2, Reloaded, and the audience discovers that the Oracle is a machine program, at which point most people go: um, what?

What had begun as a simple good guy/bad guy movie had just become a complex piece of literature, with different levels of interpretation and a very sophisticated model of reality. Ken suggests that it's not until the last twenty minutes of part 3, Revolutions, that the key to the trilogy is revealed: although—and perhaps because—Neo is physically blind, he sees the machines as luminous, golden light—not quite how the "bad guys" are seen in most movies. And yet Neo is unmistakable in what he says to Trinity: "If you could see them as I see them, they are all made of Light...." Indeed, the machines represent Spirit, but Spirit as alienated and therefore attacking....


Good read for Matrixlogians.

 

[Desperado]

OMGWTF TEH MATRICKS I DON'T UNDERSTANNND

 

[Ninja Scooter]

he's a hack and his movies suck.

 

[sc0la]

What had begun as a simple good guy/bad guy movie had just become a complex piece of literature, with different levels of interpretation and a very sophisticated model of reality.
[/b]

I am not here to argue whether the movies are good or bad. But this is simply hyperbole at its finest. complex piece of literature? no wtf.

 

[LakeEarth]

Oh wait, I see, the movies weren't boring pieces of trash that made no sense, they were boring pieces of trash with depth!!!!

 

[neptunes]

he should go-over their sex change fiasco and Marilyn monroe obsession

 

[Wolfy]

I love the matrix series

 

[ConfusingJazz]

And yet Neo is unmistakable in what he says to Trinity: "If you could see them as I see them, they are all made of Light...." Indeed, the machines represent Spirit, but Spirit as alienated and therefore attacking....

Any time I see this in a movie, I see it as a cop out. Just like another movie that I was eagerly awaiting for until I finally saw it, Final Fantasy: The Spirit Within. Its annoying as hell and totally unbelievable. What a crappy way to make a machine seem sympathetic.

 

[DarienA]

I love the matrix series

IAWTP

 

[Escape Goat]

Christ, its a movie thats meant to be enjoyed. If you have criticisms at least present them in a respectable manner otherwise shut the fuck up.

 

[evil ways]

he's a hack and his movies suck.

Oh wait, I see, the movies weren't boring pieces of trash that made no sense, they were boring pieces of trash with depth!!!!

And that's the truth.

 

[=W=]

Hmmm... all of you make interesting arguments... oh wait, no, none of you do.

This is all we need, another "OMG MATRIX SUCKS" thread.

 

[karasu]

How pretentious :roll

 

[Incognito]

I actually left the theater an hour into Matrix 2, or whatever the hell its subtitle was. Terrible, terrible, terrible.

 

[MrCheez]

Every time I think about the Matrix sequels I am instantly filled with a variety of negative emotions... but mostly anger. If it was possible for me to Hulk-out, I would.

 

[Templar Wizard]

he? surely you mean she.
and as to providing a 'valid' argument to the fact that the matrix sequels were bullshit?
surely you jest?

 

[The Promised One]

Every time I think about the Matrix sequels I am instantly filled with a variety of negative emotions... but mostly anger. If it was possible for me to Hulk-out, I would.

I second that motion.

It seems as if they started out with a good idea, and then decided to turn it into philosophy 101, with no explanation of how Neo could do things outside of the Matrix.

 

[Wolfy]

with no explanation of how Neo could do things outside of the Matrix.

I DO NOT PAY ATTENTION TO MOVEEZ

 

[jecclr2003]

You know, I've only been posting here a short time...

HalfPastNoon, you seem to hate EVERYTHING. Not a knock or anything, just an observation.

Is it possible for some people to just shut down and enjoy a movie for what it is, mindless 2 hours of entertainment. Let's face things folks, these are just movies. Nothing more, nothing less. Not like they are meant to be life altering experiences.

Sometime you just have to get off your high horses and enjoy life.

 

[Kabuki Waq]

"it possible for some people to just shut down and enjoy a movie for what it is, mindless 2 hours of entertainment. Let's face things folks, these are just movies. Nothing more, nothing less. Not like they are meant to be life altering experiences."

The problem with the matirx movies was that the directors wanted it to be some sort of deep involving life changing movie. In the end it just turned out to be boring heavy handed trash.

 

[nomoment]

Is Larry the one that's a chick, now? Or is that the other one?

Either way, anything beyond the first Matrix was an embarassment.

 

[Kabuki Waq]

they are both chicks now.

 

[The Promised One]

I DO NOT PAY ATTENTION TO MOVEEZ

Ok then, please explain to me exactly how he was able to do miraculous things in the real world.

 

[nitewulf]

What had begun as a simple good guy/bad guy movie had just become a complex piece of literature, with different levels of interpretation and a very sophisticated model of reality.

no. dante's "inferno" is a complex piece of literature.

 

[Willco]

The Matrix sequels are so bad that they exist in another plane of existence with the likes of Episode I and Jaws: The Revenge, and other sequels I forget existed.

 

[=W=]

and as to providing a 'valid' argument to the fact that the matrix sequels were bullshit?
surely you jest?

I never said anything about a 'valid' argument. Any argument at all would be nice instead of repeating the same "Matrix 2 and 3 suck" line over and over. It's been done in about 50-60 threads before this one.

And Larry Wachowski is fully entitled to think whatever he wants about his own movies and nothing any of you say will make it untrue. You people are being more pretentious than he is by thinking your opinion of the movie is any more valid than his.

 

[belgurdo]

This is all we need, another "OMG MATRIX SUCKS" thread.

Honestly. Fucking get over it and move on, people.

 

[Lil' Dice]

Honestly. Fucking get over it and move on, people.

Dude, "Hell hath no wrath like a geek scorned"....

 

[Incognito]

You know, I've only been posting here a short time...

HalfPastNoon, you seem to hate EVERYTHING. Not a knock or anything, just an observation.

Is it possible for some people to just shut down and enjoy a movie for what it is, mindless 2 hours of entertainment. Let's face things folks, these are just movies. Nothing more, nothing less. Not like they are meant to be life altering experiences.

Sometime you just have to get off your high horses and enjoy life.

What? I enjoy tons of things, it's just this forum is centered around the hating of games, movies, shows, songs, actors, sports teams...etc.

Things I like?

Beatles
Kayne West
Sopranos
CYE
The Wire
Entorauge
Sex and the City
Six Feet Under
Good Will Hunting
Braveheart
Three Kings
Eyes Wide Shut
80's Music
Women
Sonics
Redskins
Reds
Seminoles
Tar Heels
School
Mortons
Wendys
Mac & Cheese
Intelligent people
Thin crust pizza

and the list goes on...

Guess what? I DID enjoy the first Matrix, and a lot. I have the DVD, however, the following two sequels reeked in my eyes, and I have the right to express that opinion.

 

[SFA_AOK]

What? I enjoy tons of things, it's just this forum is centered around the hating of games, movies, shows, songs, actors, sports teams...etc.

Things I like?

Beatles
Kayne West
Sopranos
CYE
The Wire
Entorauge
Sex and the City
Six Feet Under
Good Will Hunting
Braveheart
Three Kings
Eyes Wide Shut
80's Music
Women
Sonics
Redskins
Reds
Seminoles
Tar Heels
School
Mortons
Wendys
Mac & Cheese
Intelligent people
Thin crust pizza

and the list goes on...

Guess what? I DID enjoy the first Matrix, and a lot. I have the DVD, however, the following two sequels reeked in my eyes, and I have the right to express that opinion.

Yeah but a lot of your posts here seem to be complaining about something or other, I think that's what he was getting at.

 

[Gantz]

Wow people nowadays must have very poor analytical skills. I didn't find Matrix Reloaded/Revolutions deep or thought provoking at all.

 

[sprsk]

the matrix sequels arent hard to understand. Totally blatant christian allegory is played out though. My main problem was the focus on the christian overtones over a focus on character exposition at the end. Everyone that was interesting in the first movie just became part of the crowd and neo just turned into a vessel for the wachowskis hairbrained iconography.

I like this quote btw

this forum is centered around the hating of games, movies, shows, songs, actors, sports teams...etc.

So true, but when you get a bunch of people together with strong beliefs (be it educated beliefs or just going on random thoughts) without any sort of physical restraints (punchin folks) you're gonna get alot of verbal fisticuffs.

 

[Scrow]

The Martix rocks and the sequels suck. End of story.

 

[XS+]

Ok then, please explain to me exactly how he was able to do miraculous things in the real world.

What was so miraculous about what he did in the real world? He wasn't flying and healing people or anything. He couldn't save his eyes or save Trinity from a retarded dying scene, could he? All Neo could do was see and control the machines that were connected to the Source.

I do find it odd that Neo had no power whatsoever in the train station. Why not just model the entire Matrix off of whatever's making the train station 'Anomaly-proof?'

 

[Lyte Edge]

The Martix rocks and the sequels suck. End of story.

MARTIX SUPER AWESOME NUMBAH ONE111111111!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11

Scrow's right. I like to think that there's only been one Matrix film created.

 

[Willco]

The Martix rocks and the sequels suck. End of story.

Amen. Now let us never speak of this again.

 

[Vibri]

Does anyone have a link to the full sound file? I'm curious to hear it.

 

[Phoenix]

I hope he's not trying to pass this off as some piece of literature above the comprehension of the average movie goer. We understood exactly what was going on - it just sucked ass. All of these wack-ass literature types try to explain their suck by saying 'its cool, you just don't understand'.

NO - you suck, deal with it!

Just go ahead and explain it like it is. In the Matrix we made a cool movie and we didn't REALLY think that Time Warner was going to make a trilogy out of it but it made mad money but we'd blown our best ideas on the first movie. Time Warner pressed us for a film quickly to take advantage of the new franchise since profits were down across the company so we quickly came up with a trilogy concept. Unfortunately we had no idea where we were going to go with the story and just took what people said was cool about the first one, gathered what we knew about the demographic and went to the extreme with it. Well, we just couldn't hold the story together because we aren't that good and the short time frame prevented us from getting the help we had with the first movie. On top of that our ego had become larger than the sun so we actually believed we could do it alone. Looking back on it the people who we thought we were going to reach thought it was stupid, but its easier to say something stupid like 'you couldn't understand it'. Its true that you wouldn't spend over 100 million dollars on a movie that you wouldn't expect your audience to understand immediately, but .... look and the monkey, look at the silly little monkey...

and your head explodes.

 

[MetatronM]

I hope he's not trying to pass this off as some piece of literature above the comprehension of the average movie goer. We understood exactly what was going on - it just sucked ass. All of these wack-ass literature types try to explain their suck by saying 'its cool, you just don't understand'.

NO - you suck, deal with it!

Just go ahead and explain it like it is. In the Matrix we made a cool movie and we didn't REALLY think that Time Warner was going to make a trilogy out of it but it made mad money but we'd blown our best ideas on the first movie. Time Warner pressed us for a film quickly to take advantage of the new franchise since profits were down across the company so we quickly came up with a trilogy concept. Unfortunately we had no idea where we were going to go with the story and just took what people said was cool about the first one, gathered what we knew about the demographic and went to the extreme with it. Well, we just couldn't hold the story together because we aren't that good and the short time frame prevented us from getting the help we had with the first movie. On top of that our ego had become larger than the sun so we actually believed we could do it alone. Looking back on it the people who we thought we were going to reach thought it was stupid, but its easier to say something stupid like 'you couldn't understand it'. Its true that you wouldn't spend over 100 million dollars on a movie that you wouldn't expect your audience to understand immediately, but .... look and the monkey, look at the silly little monkey...

and your head explodes.

IAWTP. 100%

 

[carbonbased]

So is this one the "girl"?

 

[DaCocoBrova]

Revolutions was laughably bad.

 

[Dan]

I'm interested in seeing if these guys ever work again. Not interested as in I want to see more from them, but interested to see if studios hire these guys when they managed to turn a huge success into a relative failure complete with hateful backlashes.

 

[etiolate]

Eyes Wide Shut

And then you lost.


I liked the first two Matrix movies a lot, but if the machines are spirits why do they feed off the body? A spirit/soul doesn't need a body. Yet the machines harvest humans in order to survive.

 

[demon]

Eyes Wide Shut is a pretty damn interesting movie.

As for The Matrix series, the first was what I call a "good popcorn flick". As opposed to most popcorn flicks that come out today, it actually had some kind of interesting plot, character development, and decent pacing. The second movie sucked shit, and I didn't even bother with the third one. I don't give a rat's ass how complex and philosophical the story supposedly is, the script is SHIT regardless. The fight scenes are so ridiculously outrageous that I couldn't even find them exciting because they simply had no foundation in any reality I can relate to, and the plot development was fucking WEAK. 15 minutes before the movie ends and "OH SHIT, forgot about the plot!", so who else but Colonel Sanders makes a cameo to spew out a bunch of horseshit about god knows what, and......I get a stomach ache even thinking about how bad this movie is. I'm through.

 

[Bizarro Sun Yat-sen]

Not that I like the Matrix (never saw the sequels; the first one was bad enough) but if you actually read the article, Cockles' quotes come from the Integral Naked writer, not the Wachowskis. And if you strip away the hyperbole, all he's saying is that the first movie was a simplistic good-versus-evil story (which it was, and that's one of the reasons it sucked) and things are a bit more ambiguous in the sequels (from what I've heard they are, which makes me a little more interested in the sequels, but not enough to bother seeing them)

 

[Leon]

The Matrix series made me confused and got me thinking for a good while. Until I realized they weren't worth getting confused about, that is. An unnecessary mindfuck if I ever saw one.

Still the best trilogy ever, though.

 

[ManaByte]

Still the best trilogy ever, though.

Crack does wonderful things to the perception, doesn't it?

 

[Leon]

Well...that's just, like, your opinion, man..

 

[ManaByte]

Well...that's just, like, your opinion, man..

Shut the fuck up Donny.

This is what happens when you find a stranger in the alps!

 

[FortNinety]

I could go on and on why I hate the Matrix film, but most here have done a great job of covering most of the bases. All I can say is that the biggest fault of the films is the need to explain everything. I was willing to "go with the flow" till the lame ass need to "explain" the origin of vampires. That was the deal killer for me. Oh, that and the orgasm cake scene.