Support NeoGAF

[jarrod]

Yeah, by not putting up with the BS.

Yes, saying things like "Nintendo Defense League" does wonders for encouraging elevated discussion around here. True colors and all that.

I did get some good GBA game recommendations out of it, at least.

An olive branch? Very well then, bff.

 

[Crankenstein]

Sorry, I didn't read all 11 pages. I didn't have the time. Maybe someone could sum up for me who does have the time.

Two different versions:

1. "Drinky: "Hey, DS Sucks"
First victim: "I love these PSP fanboys"
Drinky: "Banned!"
Speevy: "You guys aren't funny"
Drinky: "Banned"
*lots of drivel and nonsense*
Drinky: "I've always been an admin"
*Everyone nervously chuckles at the punch line*"

2. "It's funny how clearly the line between "gets it" and "doesn't get it" can be drawn in a thread titled "The Nintendo DS: Still a Piece of Shit" made by an agitator admin at precisely the time the board comes back online after a relatively minor "hack" by a bored Nintendo fanboy."

 

[Chipopo]

Drinky Crow was essentially crippled under the weight of logical, moralistic concepts on how to run a forum, and promptly handed back his administrative duties realizing his errs.

He found a nice insulated cottage in Nova Scotia where he'll spend the next few months in deep meditative reflection.

 

[MetalAlien]

It's like crack, I feel compelled to read every post in this thread! Ever see a slow motion motorcycle crash? It has the same effect...absolute attention

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

Yes, saying things like "Nintendo Defense League" does wonders for encouraging elevated discussion around here. True colors and all that.



An olive branch? Very well then, bff.

I was pretty diplomatic when I broached the topic in that thread. Nintendo Defense League came later.

What's bff?

 

[JackFrost2012]

What's bff?

Buy Final Fantasy (III DS).
(actually, best friends forever.)
(I think he was being sarcastic.)

Sorry, I didn't read all 11 pages. I didn't have the time. Maybe someone could sum up for me who does have the time.

I like my summary: GAF isn't a conversation, it's participatory drama and/or improv comedy. You can accept that, or you can rail against it, but you sure as hell can't change it.

 

[Chipopo]

...but you sure as hell can't change it

Unless you try REALLY REALLY hard.

R U /\ 4 it, Cogent?

 

[Drinky Crow]

Isn't this thread about why the DS is, and I quote "still a piece of shit"?

If you guys can't get back on topic, I'm donating this thread to the Drinky Puppy Club, a group of right bastards who know exactly how to deal with jagoffs like me.

 

[jarrod]

I was pretty diplomatic when I broached the topic in that thread. Nintendo Defense League came later.

I'm fully aware when it came, hence the term "like". "Snake in the bushes" might work too if you wanted something more timely.

What's bff?

 

[Crankenstein]

Back on topic:

At this point, GBAsp> DS + PSP
Library, size, battery life, price> Touch + 2 screens +polygons+ movies not on DVD + expensive memory sticks for MP3 playback

 

[Dr_Cogent]

Unless you try REALLY REALLY hard.

R U /\ 4 it, Cogent?

No, I've come to realize over the years that you can't change anyone. People have to change themselves.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

I'm fully aware when it came, hence the term "like". "Snake in the bushes" might work too if you wanted something more timely.

????

 

[Dr_Cogent]

I think GAF needs to get in a group and smokem peace pipe (packed with the chronic).

 

[Drinky Crow]

I do dearly love the GBA SP, but after playing the PSP with its competent 3D graphics, medium resolution, high-quality audio, and incredible screen, it's hard to go back. Fortunately, the GBA SP has one of the best libraries out there, but there *is* a reason we upgrade in SPITE of the great libraries available in previous generations. The PSP still has a lot to prove, though.

Nowadays, I think of my GBA the way I think of my PSOne or SNES: the whole "man, that system had some great games; I oughtta play through a couple of 'em some time" internal monologue. The PSP is what sits in my laptop bag now, though.

Not that the PSP doesn't have issues: while I find the battery life to be a complete non-problem (surprisingly), the ghosting on 60 fps games aggravates me a bit, as do the load times in a few of the initial games (namely: Darkstalkers and Untold Legends).

The DS is just a cruel joke played on Nintendo fans, though.

 

[SyNapSe]

:lol @ the pic of MAF/Drinky stabbing and shooting at the Hive of Bee's! What a great thread. If Speevy was banned for life it would suck as he's a pretty good poster, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

 

[Dr_Cogent]

Not that the PSP doesn't have issues: while I find the battery life to be a complete non-problem (surprisingly), the ghosting on 60 fps games aggravates me a bit, as do the load times in a few of the initial games (namely: Darkstalkers and Untold Legends).

I wonder if Sony even had the technical capability to actually circumvent that.

 

[Drinky Crow]

Speevy will be back in less than a week, exactly the time that this little manufactured furor will have died (and been archived). At that time, he can resume his duties whoring the incomprehensibly inane Jungle Beat without feeling compromised by his need to crusade on behalf of the forum's invisible populist movement.

 

[Matlock]

random bullshit and ego stroking

 

[kaching]

Sleep Mode > Library, size, battery life, price> Touch + 2 screens +polygons+ movies not on DVD + expensive memory sticks for MP3 playback

Looks about right.

 

[RevenantKioku]

The DS is just a cruel joke played on Nintendo fans, though.

The PSP is a great techie thing, but as someone who spent time developing games (merely a hobby mind you) the DS proves to be far more interesting. How can't it not tickle your brain with interesting new ways of doing things? Hell not even doing things, just a few seconds of thinking what could be done to FF3 has me eagerly anticipating the title. The concept is brilliant. But it probably won't work that well. The exact problem is, everybody is dropping the fucking ball. Consistently. Its always, "If you just added this" or "If you just tweaked this a little." then the games would move out of the pool of mediocre shit they're wading through. The PSP is just an upgraded GBA from a bastardized standpoint. I look at the library and don't see titles that I want to play mobile. The DS is too radical, and the PSP is too much like my home consoles.

 

[Drinky Crow]

Cogent, probably not. Well, I think the load times can be circumvented -- I'd venture that most games were designed around the time that the amount of RAM was still in flux. Darkstalkers, for example, has no visible load times on the Saturn with 2+4 MB RAM; the PSP has 24+ MB available -and- a marginally faster drive. I think most of the load times are the result of early dev kits and churning specs -- I expect better performance in that area in the next go-round of releases.

 

[Matlock]

!

Ian Hutchinson
<me@aol.com> to staff
More options 2:23 pm (16 minutes ago)
I'm just speaking as a lurker here, but your forum moderators blow. What I
once enjoyed about this site and the forums was getting actual news and now
I'm no longer getting that from Gaming Age, at least on the forum side. What
I am getting is a bunch of shit to sift through to find real news and real
dicussions.

Why you actually tolerate having moderators, like Drinky Cow, who post
blatant flamebait is beyond mem because they only serve to give your site a
BAD name. Really, even the GameFAQs forums are looking like a viable, sane
alternative to your forums at this time. Hell, even I don't even feel so bad
that I post over at IGN now.

Really, clean up that shit of a forum.

 

[Dr_Cogent]

Cogent, probably not. Well, I think the load times can be circumvented -- I'd venture that most games were designed around the time that the amount of RAM was still in flux. Darkstalkers, for example, has no visible load times on the Saturn with 2+4 MB RAM; the PSP has 24+ MB available -and- a marginally faster drive. I think most of the load times are the result of early dev kits and churning specs -- I expect better performance in that area in the next go-round of releases.

Oh sorry, I wasn't specific enough. I was only referring to the ghosting on the LCD.

Dunno what the load times are like on the PSP. I can't afford that (and I'm not big into portable gaming anyway - maybe it's cause I am a graphics whore).

 

[Shouta]

Remember when Ninja Gaiden got a C- Matlock? Same thing =P.

 

[Matlock]

Remember when Ninja Gaiden got a C- Matlock? Same thing =P.

Ya, but I didn't see this back in the Jim-Gives-C- days.

 

[number386]

I'm disapointed at this topic, and their are several posters who'se respect meter have been pegged down a notch, and their are a couple of posters with whom I'm thoroughly disgusted with, as their useless asinine posts have littered this entire topic. And I'm not talking about the nintendo fans. I know what this topic is about and it's the point is rather dull and juvanile.

As a reletivly new member of this site I'm on the outside looking in, I came when new junior membership bashing was at an all time high we couldn't even create topics, I should of known then GAF was full of itself then. Their even was a giant thread outlining why junior members suck. With the old boys club, people getting banned over puzzling reasons, and Elitism going on, GAF has definetly bought into their own hype.

I'll miss folder say what you will about spong, or his posts but he was earnest and enthusiatic his love of gaming was quite evident. This thread seems to have backfired it exposed the more immature members of GAF, and once again I'm not talking about the Nintendo fans.

 

[Shouta]

This sort of thing? You mean this thread? We've had this for ages, just in a Tang form.

 

[Tritroid]

!

^Agreed :|

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

I'll miss folder say what you will about spong, or his posts but he was earnest and enthusiatic his love of gaming was quite evident. This thread seems to have backfired it exposed the more immature members of GAF, and once again I'm not talking about the Nintendo fans.

If you're going to complain, at least name names.

 

[Drinky Crow]

Kioku, because in the end, two screens and a stylus aren't really a significant innovation. The reason the devs have dropped the ball is because there really isn't THAT much you can do with them that can't be replicated in an equally intuitive (albeit different) form with standard controls, or without going the tiresome mini-game route. (Really, while scratching the screen or blowing into the mic might be cute as a once-off task ala Wario Ware, it'd be absolutely wearisome for anything beyond a few gimmicky games like that.) That relegates the use of the stylus and two screens to those sorts of novelty-centered scenarios.

Just because you can think of countless (bad) ideas for the use of the twin screens and touch pad doesn't actually VET them in real-world game designs. I remember reading through all of the ludicrously silly UI nightmare scenarios concocted by Nintendo fanboys during the announcement of the marvelous third pillar, and I didn't find a single one outside of a few RTS suggestions to be something that might become eminently playable.

Also, the Nintendo DS itself limits the use of its own innovations: why develop a TBS or RTS type title when you have inadequate resolution and only half of the real estate "touchable"? In the end, the PSP with its laptop-styled analog nub may ultimately be a better "mouse-type" solution for developers.

It's a rushed piece of hardware that while having a little surface ingenuity is ultimately compromised by Nintendo's conservative development strategy. To truly innovate, you need to pay a price -- giving us a high-resolution screen that was completely touch sensitive (rather than split into two), even coupled with the current DS "3D" hardware, would've been a nice little leap forward. Instead, we get Nintendo's cheap-ass and panicked attempt to try to compete with the PSP without paying a similar R&D + manufacture price. That might pan out for Nintendo, but it's bad for gamers.

 

[JasoNsider]

Kioku, because in the end, two screens and a stylus aren't really a significant innovation. The reason the devs have dropped the ball is because there really isn't THAT much you can do with them that can't be replicated in an equally intuitive (albeit different) form with standard controls, or without going the tiresome mini-game route. (Really, while scratching the screen or blowing into the mic might be cute as a once-off task ala Wario Ware, it'd be absolutely wearisome for anything beyond a few gimmicky games like that.) That relegates the use of the stylus and two screens to those sorts of novelty-centered scenarios.

Just because you can think of countless (bad) ideas for the use of the twin screens and touch pad doesn't actually VET them in real-world game designs. I remember reading through all of the ludicrously silly UI nightmare scenarios concocted by Nintendo fanboys during the announcement of the marvelous third pillar, and I didn't find a single one outside of a few RTS suggestions to be something that might become eminently playable.

Also, the Nintendo DS itself limits the use of its own innovations: why develop a TBS or RTS type title when you have inadequate resolution and only half of the real estate "touchable"? In the end, the PSP with its laptop-styled analog nub may ultimately be a better "mouse-type" solution for developers.

It's a rushed piece of hardware that while having a little surface ingenuity is ultimately compromised by Nintendo's conservative development strategy. To truly innovate, you need to pay a price -- giving us a high-resolution screen that was completely touch sensitive (rather than split into two), even coupled with the current DS "3D" hardware, would've been a nice little leap forward. Instead, we get Nintendo's cheap-ass and panicked attempt to try to compete with the PSP without paying a similar R&D + manufacture price. That might pan out for Nintendo, but it's bad for gamers.

Jesus christ, I think you just became the brunt of your own joke :\

 

[Drinky Crow]

The joke itself has nothing to do with the DS. Really. Seriously!

Are you only capable of discussing POSTERS and not THEIR POSTS for some bizarre reason? Are you incapable of discussing why the DS is a piece of shit?

 

[Tritroid]

I'm disapointed at this topic, and their are several posters who'se respect meter have been pegged down a notch, and their are a couple of posters with whom I'm thoroughly disgusted with, as their useless asinine posts have littered this entire topic. And I'm not talking about the nintendo fans. I know what this topic is about and it's the point is rather dull and juvanile.

As a reletivly new member of this site I'm on the outside looking in, I came when new junior membership bashing was at an all time high we couldn't even create topics, I should of known then GAF was full of itself then. Their even was a giant thread outlining why junior members suck. With the old boys club, people getting banned over puzzling reasons, and Elitism going on, GAF has definetly bought into their own hype.

I'll miss folder say what you will about spong, or his posts but he was earnest and enthusiatic his love of gaming was quite evident. This thread seems to have backfired it exposed the more immature members of GAF, and once again I'm not talking about the Nintendo fans.

Yeah, I've been lurking/posting off and on for about 4-5 years now because GAF used to be a great source for news with somewhat intelligent discussions, but in the past year I haven't hardly visited GAF because of stuff like this.

I mean Ian is right. Having to sift through this shit, especially when it's stuff created by mods, is just mind numbing at times.

 

[Matlock]

Jesus christ, I think you just became the brunt of your own joke :\

 

[soundwave05]

Well you could say the same thing about the analog stick.

There's nothing really a d-pad can't replicate more or less that an analog stick can do.

I notice a lot of gamers even today when given a choice will chose the d-pad almost without fail.

Touchscreen is a good addition I think, especailly for non-gamers. I think in this respect Nintendo is beginning to succeed, because everyone is taught to draw/use crayons/write starting from as early as age 3-4.

Unless you're a gamer (and generally a young boy), you're not neccessarily naturally attuned to holding a video game controller.

It doesn't mean there aren't problems with the DS (there certainly are), but the touchscreen itself is a good idea and can create new play experiences. In the future I expect it to become a standard on portable devices.

 

[RevenantKioku]

...

Eh, that's not even the point I'm arguing. A few games now have shown the benefits (Zookeeper and Meteos play much smoother with stylus) and having constant map access in a Castlevania isn't something I exactly have beef with either. In the end though, its all stuff that's just "pretty neat" and the $50 I paid for my DS made it a nice replacement of my beat-up SP. I still say my biggest beef with the PSP is that it doesn't play GBA games. If that was the case, the DS would probably never leave my house. My point is, well, Mario 64 multiplayer case in point. Why are there no extensive multiplayer options? Time limit, different modes. Why has the internet play taken so goddamned long? Where are games that aren't shoving the stylus down my throat?

 

[Blackace]

Ya, but I didn't see this back in the Jim-Gives-C- days.

am really outraged and disappointed at your mediocre review of Ninja Gaiden. How could you possibly give this game a C-, when everyone else considers it &quot; the best action/adventure game of our time;&quot? I know you shouldn't always follow what other people think, but your review is really weighing in on the few negatives of the actual game, when just about EVERY other person on this planet hardly even thinks of these negatives as a deterrent to the actual game. Paul mentions that the camera is terrible. I don't know what games you have been playing, but I think the camera is pretty damn manageable, since you can EASILY adjust it any time necessary. A quick tap of the trigger and it's perfect. I can partially see why you're a bit disappointed with the camera, but it really isn't that big of a deal. What really got me angered by your "review" is when you said &quot; 3 or 4 canned combos;&quot. Have you EVEN thought about looking at the move list? If you actually DID take the time to do so, you would notice that there are DOZENS of combos to master, each unique to the different weapons. Maybe you, Paul, button-mash because you didn't even CARE to take the time to master these combos. You must think that Soul Calibur II is a button-masher, or any fighting game for that matter.
You also say that the gameplay gets very repetitive after a while. How is that possible? What keeps the game fresh is the constantly changing enemies that you encounter, for you have to acquire various new skills in order to defeat their different fighting-styles. Their tenaciousness also keeps things fresh and challenging. Since you consider this game button-mashing, obviously your going to get your ass kicked in this game multiple times. As I said before, you should memorize the combos and actually use some strategy. When you say that you are constantly pounded away by enemies on all sides..there is a way to dodge them..by rolling? You know..evasion? It really is implemented very well in this game. Take the time to learn it, and your opinion may change about the cheapness of the game.
I'm sorry, Paul, but your review really angered many people on various forums throughout the country. This will be the LAST time that people, such as myself, will visit your site. I'll stick with IGN and Gamespot..they truly know what they're talking about.

with love,

TeamNinja (just kidding but I love this mail)

 

[Shouta]

The posters themselves are the only ones to blame if you ask me.

 

[IJoel]

DAMN RIGHT!

You're lucky Mr. Itagaki didn't come himself and beheaded all of you reviewer fools!

C- scheeeminus...

 

[btrboyev]

in other news the psp analog nub is utterly worthless...

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

in other news the psp analog nub is utterly worthless...

???

I can't imagine playing Wipeout or Twisted Metal without it.

 

[Drinky Crow]

Or mousing through the equip screens in Untold Legends. Works pretty good with Dynasty Warriors, too.

 

[RevenantKioku]

???

I can't imagine playing Wipeout or Twisted Metal without it.

I can't imagine playing Wipeout or Twisted Metal! ... (Actually, I can't imagine playing Twisted Metal with a stick, now that I think about it. Then again, I only played TM pre-dual shock.) Anyway, I don't find that the nub really is that great, or at least, its no Neo Geo Pocket Color stick. Now that's a stick. That much said, my only experience with the stick was Ape Escape and that soccer game, and neither of them really felt "right" with the nub.

 

[soundwave05]

I think the touchscreen is actually probably a more fundamental leap forward than even the analog stick (certainly moreso than the Rumble Pak). You can still play just about game without analog, its just more of a pain in the ass. But I dunno if Yoshi's Touch N' Go or Touch Kirby really could function without the touchscreen unless they slowed down the gameplay dramatically to allow the player to draw with a joystick instead. It'd be like playing a lightgun shooter without the lightgun, only worse.

It's a good feature. It can change the way games are played and how games appeal to certain people (specifically girls I think).

Right now though, unfoutunately there are other issues with the DS -- definitely its a rushed product (then again they've also sold 6 million of them, which makes it the fastest selling game system ever I believe) so the software is lagging behind and sure, yeah, I would have loved if they had a bigger screen and better graphics and MP3/MP4 and all that stuff.

But the flipside of that is at $150, I think the DS is probably a bit too expensive as is, especailly for the non-gamers that Nintendo wishes to attract. $150 is a ton of money for people who are only mildly interested in video games right now but like the DS.

The touchscreen itself is a great idea. Its the other stuff that's questionable, but more than anything DS is getting (deservedly so) shit for having a lackluster software lineup, which really more than anything is due to the fact that Nintendo was lazy in the portable market and then rushed this product to the market when they heard about PSP.

I think honestly Nintendo has bad time management/planning skills. The GameCube, DS, and N64 launches have all been lacking.

 

[jarrod]

It's a real shame Sony wasn't forward thinking enough to bother with a 2nd analog stick. Going backwards to Goldeneye/Dreamcast controls isn't exactly inspiring.

 

[chespace]

I can't imagine playing Wipeout or Twisted Metal! ... (Actually, I can't imagine playing Twisted Metal with a stick, now that I think about it. Then again, I only played TM pre-dual shock.) Anyway, I don't find that the nub really is that great, or at least, its no Neo Geo Pocket Color stick. Now that's a stick. That much said, my only experience with the stick was Ape Escape and that soccer game, and neither of them really felt "right" with the nub.

NGPC stick is not analog.

 

[RevenantKioku]

NGPC stick is not analog.

I know, but it felt so right.

Which reminds, me, first of the two handhelds to get a Magical Drop (although didn't the devs close down?) wins my heart.

 

[Lazy8s]

Nintendo should license Aurora from Sega Sammy to bring the portal gaming market a technologically proficient system.

 

[CloudNL]

24 pages? What is happening?

EDIT: Sh*t, watch to much 24. :lol 14 is the right number.

 

[jarrod]

Nintendo should license Aurora from Sega Sammy to bring the portal gaming market a technologically proficient system.

What's Aurora?