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The Tomb Raider Reboot trilogy sold 38 million copies in total, with the franchise totaling 88 million copies sold.

Belthazar

Member
How the hell did Square made it seem like the franchise was always underperforming? That's an average of 12,6 million copies sold per game in the reboot trilogy... That's more than the recent Final Fantasy games could pull off.

What kind of insane expectations did they put into the games?



Source: https://www.ign.com/articles/tomb-raider-sales-1996
 

Bragr

Member
The numbers that are there put the first game at around 15, the second game at around 8, and the third game at around 4 or 5.

But these are older numbers, so I guess they sold a few million on cheap sales over the years.
 

Bragr

Member
How the hell did Square made it seem like the franchise was always underperforming?
That's been skewed by the media a bit, what they were saying was not that the sales were weak, but that Square was in a bad spot and needed and expected a massive boost from Tomb Raider to help the company. And it didn't do that as much as they hoped, they wanted it to be like Elden Ring or something, some massive worldwide success, they thought Tomb Raider was so big it was gonna boost Square as a whole. But while it was big, it was never THAT big, that's what they were talking about. They were happy with the sales overall.
 

Stuart360

Member
That's been skewed by the media a bit, what they were saying was not that the sales were weak, but that Square was in a bad spot and needed and expected a massive boost from Tomb Raider to help the company. And it didn't do that as much as they hoped, they wanted it to be like Elden Ring or something, some massive worldwide success, they thought Tomb Raider was so big it was gonna boost Square as a whole. But while it was big, it was never THAT big, that's what they were talking about. They were happy with the sales overall.
That may be true but they did also say that they had set a target of 5mil sales for the first TR reboot, and it hadnt reached that number after like 2 years. It made people assume a sequel wasnt going to come and i remember quite a few people were surprised when Rise was announced.
The person above saying the first game sold 15mil, well i dont know if they are including when the game was free on the Epic Shitstore but i dont see how it reached 15mil unless the game sold a ton on the cheap. Also maybe Square were just lying or somehting.
 
I'm pretty sure that SE was just breaking even with these games. It wasn't worth the overhead.

If they could have sold it for more, they would have. Tomb Raider isn't worth what many of you believed.

Also, think for how many years these Tomb Raider games have been selling for a few bucks. All those count as sales.
 
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EDMIX

Member
The numbers that are there put the first game at around 15, the second game at around 8, and the third game at around 4 or 5.

But these are older numbers, so I guess they sold a few million on cheap sales over the years.

The fact that it continued to sell less and less makes sense on why the IP was sold.
 
Tomb Raider and a bunch of other IPs and Devs Studio got sold for cheap so that Square can focus on making more Blockchain lol
 
From what I gathered

Actually Shadow sold 8.9 Million copies.

https://tombraider25.square-enix-games.com/en-us/sottr/blog/treasure-hunters/

Finally on September 12th, 2018 Shadow of the Tomb Raider was put on sale for PS4, PC and Xbox One competing in the launch that same month with Spider-man (September, 2018) obtaining a total of 8.9 million units sold to date and reaching diverse scores by professionals and players ranging between 76, 77 and 83 (for PS4, PC and Xbox One respectively) in Metacritic which led to it being nominated for best action game in the awards of reference of the sector, The Game Awards although it was finally won by God of War (2018).

And yes each sequel sold less than the previous one.
 
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I will never understand why Square-Enix was always a lot more demanding in terms of sales for their western studios but were always so "soft" when talking about japanese projects like Final Fantasy XV. I can't even imagine how much money they threw into that project.

Have they mentioned how disappointed they were at all the AA projects they released recently? I mean those games barely charted...if they even charted at all.
 

kiphalfton

Member
I'm dreading seeing the new Lara Croft, which way will the tone/design go? Will check be sassy, cool, Hooty McBoob again or will she be a 15-stone, side-shaved haircut, surfboard "realistic woman"?

Awkward Nervous Wreck GIF by DeRay Davis

We’ve gotten a lot of iterations, except. Return to Boobville Laura, in the new rebooted series.

On a side note are there no mods for the PC port making this a reality? Or are the rebooted games that difficult to mod?
 
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AX8

Banned
We’ve gotten a lot of iterations, except. Return to Boobville Laura, in the new rebooted series.

On a side note are there no mods for the PC port making this a reality? Or are the rebooted games that difficult to mod?
Ayo?
 

EDMIX

Member
I will never understand why Square-Enix was always a lot more demanding in terms of sales for their western studios but were always so "soft" when talking about japanese projects like Final Fantasy XV. I can't even imagine how much money they threw into that project.

Have they mentioned how disappointed they were at all the AA projects they released recently? I mean those games barely charted...if they even charted at all.

1. Those games likely generally cost less and have a deeper install base. We don't even know the final budget of FFXV tbh, we know it was in development hell for some time, how much was actually FULL development is debatable, that doesn't mean they wish to continue with IP moving lessor units or something, FFXV also broke records for them.

2. FF series is a concept where they are all different, Tomb Raider is a set concept. Any FF can move record units, any FF can bring in new consumers, Tomb Raider is about 1 set person, big difference in terms of turn arounds with new entries, any FF has a chance at bringing in new consumers.

3. They are AA projects for a reason, we don't know how much Square is expecting from those projects compared to a AAA IP like Tomb Raider.
 

Belthazar

Member
1. We don't even know the final budget of FFXV tbh, we know it was in development hell for some time, how much was actually FULL development is debatable, that doesn't mean they wish to continue with IP moving lessor units or something, FFXV also broke records for them.
Regardless of anything the 9 million+ FF XV sold aren't that far ahead from Shadow's 8.9 million. And I remember FF XV going on deeper sales way quicker. And about budget... I can't imagine that very expensive movie they made made a lot of bank.
 
1. Those games likely generally cost less and have a deeper install base. We don't even know the final budget of FFXV tbh, we know it was in development hell for some time, how much was actually FULL development is debatable, that doesn't mean they wish to continue with IP moving lessor units or something, FFXV also broke records for them.

2. FF series is a concept where they are all different, Tomb Raider is a set concept. Any FF can move record units, any FF can bring in new consumers, Tomb Raider is about 1 set person, big difference in terms of turn arounds with new entries, any FF has a chance at bringing in new consumers.

3. They are AA projects for a reason, we don't know how much Square is expecting from those projects compared to a AAA IP like Tomb Raider.
Both the reboot and Rise sold more than every final fantasy game in history.
And Shadow of the tomb raider wasn't far from FFXV in sales and that's like the 3rd biggest final fantasy in history.
 

M16

Member
People keep saying 300 mill is cheap, but the question is why nobody else wanted to pay even that. I'm sure there was bidding and counters and all that. Maybe because the days of single player games are gone/ going away. You know, online, metaverse,NFT,etc.. That's what gaming companies are going to focus on. These franchises don't line up with this vision.
 
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EDMIX

Member
Regardless of anything the 9 million+ FF XV sold aren't that far ahead from Shadow's 8.9 million. And I remember FF XV going on deeper sales way quicker. And about budget... I can't imagine that very expensive movie they made made a lot of bank.

Yet the Tomb Raider games selling less over time doesn't show a sign of changing, any FF can move units as its a new concept every time....

Both the reboot and Rise sold more than every final fantasy game in history.
And Shadow of the tomb raider wasn't far from FFXV in sales and that's like the 3rd biggest final fantasy in history.

"sold" not fucking CONTINUED to sell, more Final Fantasy titles moved past 10 million then Tomb Raider titles and the series can continue to get such sales regardless of how shit 1 title was from the next as they bring in new consumers.

I mean, dear god listen to what you are saying "wasn't far from FFXV in sales and thats like the 3rd biggest Final Fantasy" yea, not 1st, not 2nd, 3rd, as in they fucking moved those units many times before, yet Tomb Raider has only seen past that figure once....

So if they continued to move 13, 14 million etc then maybe I can see that point, but the reality is FF moving those figures is normal, Tomb Raider moving them is rare to the point of it only happening once... If someone doesn't like some direction Tomb Raider is going, they need not give a shit about the next 4 entries, but if someone doesn't like a Final Fantasy, they can just wait til the next one or a remake, remaster etc of a past one. So FF likely has a smoother budget overall, ability to have return fans, new fans every entry and generally moves massive units vs once in a while.

If the budget doesn't make sense, the series is moving lessor even with a massive budget and they can't just make some new fucking concept of it as it is a set person, they are right to let it go and focus their budgets on new ideas and established concepts. I don't think Square just fucking hates money man, if those projects didn't work out for them...who am I to tell them to keep doing something that doesn't make sense on their end? Why sell if its sooooooo good for them? Clearly something isn't working out for them to do this and for them to cut their loses.
 
I just want to point out that creating a new IP and figuring out how to market that new IP is significantly more expensive than an existing IP.

SE values Forspoken a brand new IP over established/beloved Tomb Raider and Deus Ex. Absolutely mind blowing.
 
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Magic Carpet

Gold Member
I have all the new Tomb Raider games even though I did not actually buy any of them. They were all given away either as PS+, xbox gold, or epic store free games.
I guess they made whatever money was good enough and just gave away the rest.
 

Zeroing

Banned
I just want to point out that creating a new IP and figuring out how to market that new IP is significantly more expensive than an existing IP.

SE values Forspoken a brand new IP over established/beloved Tomb Raider and Deus Ex. Absolutely mind blowing.
It is more than obvious that Square Enix has been a mess of managing things. Some years ago they got rid of the studio and IP of Hitman.
I am impressed Square Enix are still around, those deals they made seem more about trying to survive.
 

Saber

Member
Yeah its easy to believe that those are not worth the trouple(according to SE), judging the amount of money they were sold. Also, most are westerns.

I just hope whoever gets them make remaster of these old gems. Original Tomb Raider and Deus Ex HR are the games I'm looking foward for a good remaster.
 
Yeah its easy to believe that those are not worth the trouple(according to SE), judging the amount of money they were sold. Also, most are westerns.

I just hope whoever gets them make remaster of these old gems. Original Tomb Raider and Deus Ex HR are the games I'm looking foward for a good remaster.

I would love Human Revolution/Mankind Divided remasters (one game collection). Definitely would buy them and help support future releases.
 
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I quite like the neo-Raider trilogy, but I guess the declining sales are (maybe??) a reflection of the declining quality of the games in the trilogy.

The first game came out with a bang. The characters universally sucked (Lara probably worst of all) and the plot was dumb, but the main gameplay loop was very satisfying.
The second game had even dumber characters and an even dumber plot than the first, with a location that wasn't as fun, but the gameplay was still pretty fun.
I just started playing the third game and, while it sure looks pretty, it seems like it won't be as good as the first two. (Which would line up with pretty much the universal opinion I've read and have been told by IRL friends.)
 

Belthazar

Member
Yet the Tomb Raider games selling less over time doesn't show a sign of changing, any FF can move units as its a new concept every time....



"sold" not fucking CONTINUED to sell, more Final Fantasy titles moved past 10 million then Tomb Raider titles and the series can continue to get such sales regardless of how shit 1 title was from the next as they bring in new consumers.

I mean, dear god listen to what you are saying "wasn't far from FFXV in sales and thats like the 3rd biggest Final Fantasy" yea, not 1st, not 2nd, 3rd, as in they fucking moved those units many times before, yet Tomb Raider has only seen past that figure once....

So if they continued to move 13, 14 million etc then maybe I can see that point, but the reality is FF moving those figures is normal, Tomb Raider moving them is rare to the point of it only happening once... If someone doesn't like some direction Tomb Raider is going, they need not give a shit about the next 4 entries, but if someone doesn't like a Final Fantasy, they can just wait til the next one or a remake, remaster etc of a past one. So FF likely has a smoother budget overall, ability to have return fans, new fans every entry and generally moves massive units vs once in a while.

If the budget doesn't make sense, the series is moving lessor even with a massive budget and they can't just make some new fucking concept of it as it is a set person, they are right to let it go and focus their budgets on new ideas and established concepts. I don't think Square just fucking hates money man, if those projects didn't work out for them...who am I to tell them to keep doing something that doesn't make sense on their end? Why sell if its sooooooo good for them? Clearly something isn't working out for them to do this and for them to cut their loses.

Both Final Fantasy and Tomb Raider only passed the 10 million mark twice. Tomb Raider did with more recent titles though... As one of the two Final Fantasies that sold more than 10 million copies is literally from the 90s. Heck, even Shadow is probably at more than 10 million, with the new total Crystal Dynamics provided.
 

Belthazar

Member
I quite like the neo-Raider trilogy, but I guess the declining sales are (maybe??) a reflection of the declining quality of the games in the trilogy.

The first game came out with a bang. The characters universally sucked (Lara probably worst of all) and the plot was dumb, but the main gameplay loop was very satisfying.
The second game had even dumber characters and an even dumber plot than the first, with a location that wasn't as fun, but the gameplay was still pretty fun.
I just started playing the third game and, while it sure looks pretty, it seems like it won't be as good as the first two. (Which would line up with pretty much the universal opinion I've read and have been told by IRL friends.)

The third one is my favorite, but it did take shift in direction. The story is very stupid and Lara is in her most insufferable iteration yet... But the heavy focus on Tombs and puzzles and very little combat was what I was needing from the series for a long time.
 
The third one is my favorite, but it did take shift in direction. The story is very stupid and Lara is in her most insufferable iteration yet... But the heavy focus on Tombs and puzzles and very little combat was what I was needing from the series for a long time.
"Insufferable" is the perfect word to describe neo-Lara.

I would love a Tomb Raider with the shooting and platforming of the new ones, with puzzles and exploration from the old games, and the attitude of the classic Lara. The whiny (and, as you say, insufferable) shit really needs to go.
 

EDMIX

Member
Both Final Fantasy and Tomb Raider only passed the 10 million mark twice. Tomb Raider did with more recent titles though... As one of the two Final Fantasies that sold more than 10 million copies is literally from the 90s. Heck, even Shadow is probably at more than 10 million, with the new total Crystal Dynamics provided.

you could say the same thing for FFXV ie probably at more then 10 million. Of the top 10 best selling Square titles, Final Fantasy is on there 7 times, Tomb Raider twice....

They have a solid reason to support that IP over Tomb Raider.
 

fatmarco

Member
These numbers mean a lot less than they used to I feel.

Games are sold for longer periods (essentially in perpetuity) versus the pre digital age where you'd maybe have an initial launch print plus a couple "gold/ platinum/classic/goty etc" re-releases. Then you also have the fact that games these days reach crater bottom prices due to digital to the point they are almost being handed out.

When a game reaches 10 million sold I feel like it'd be good to at least have some stats that place it into context e.g. How many were sold within the first 3 months of release, and then the first year too.
 

DukeNukem00

Banned
These numbers mean a lot less than they used to I feel.

Games are sold for longer periods (essentially in perpetuity) versus the pre digital age where you'd maybe have an initial launch print plus a couple "gold/ platinum/classic/goty etc" re-releases. Then you also have the fact that games these days reach crater bottom prices due to digital to the point they are almost being handed out.

When a game reaches 10 million sold I feel like it'd be good to at least have some stats that place it into context e.g. How many were sold within the first 3 months of release, and then the first year too.


yeah, i'd say after the 1st year on the market the numbers dont really mean much anymore. Certainly not after half a decade or more, like we get some figures that game x sold 10 or 20 million after 5 years. Yeah, it sold them at 5$ a piece.
 
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