Support NeoGAF

[robertsan21]

Agreed. They're all fucking stupid.

"Aw, I'm mad for some reason. I'm going to go storming away in the woods." This happened TWICE in this episode. It's a FUCKING ZOMBIE APOCALYPSE. Stay the fuck in camp with the others, you idiots.

At this point, are the writers just fucking with their audience? The amount of idiocy that is written into this season is insulting.

I cant help but to feel the same way, its kind of getting out of hand.
The farm is the not good for the show, they need to find ways for people to get into trouble and that hurts the way the write this stuff it seems.

Thats why they need to burn that fucking farm and get on with the show.

 

[Divius]

This thread is going the way of so many TV threads on GAF. Shit loads of people saying the show is terrible and has been since basically the start, but they'll come back season after season. Melts my chops.

I'm still hoping for it to get better. The source material is great, the show has potential.

 

[andycapps]

People having a hard time with a zombie ripping open person? This the first time any of you has seen any zombie fiction?

Apparently.

This episode was not as good as the others since the break, but I enjoyed the end. Dale needed to go, and it was obvious that he didn't have the necessary cajones to live in the zombie apocalypse. You can't leave the guy alive (Randall?) when he knows where you and your family are. Nobody else at this point will be there to challenge Rick and the calls he makes, with the prodding of Shane and Lori.

As far as why Andrea reversed roles, she had a discussion earlier in the episode with Shane that she was with him. Then I think she talked with Dale in the RV. Then Dale gave that big speech in Herschel's house and attempted to win over some people, during which he won Andrea back over. I didn't think it was out of place.

Why Rick hesitated shooting the kid. It's one thing when you're being faced by someone with a gun that has the intent to kill you. When you rescued a kid, put him in a car trunk, brought him to your place, tortured him, and then have him tied up and not presenting an immediate threat to you.. That's a bit harder to pull the trigger, I imagine. At that point, it's not self defense, it's an execution. Plus, Carl walked in, and I don't think he wanted his son to see him execute the guy.

The quicksand zombie sequence with Carl seemed to be really contrived, but I think it's going to lead to some interesting character development with him. Kid was already messed up from Sophie dying, and now he directly lead to Dale having his guts ripped out.

 

[Valravn]

I wonder how Robert Kirkman really feels about this show.

 

[Lonestar]

I cant help but to feel the same way, its kind of getting out of hand.
The farm is the not good for the show, they need to find ways for people to get into trouble and that hurts the way the write this stuff it seems.

Thats why they need to burn that fucking farm and get on with the show.

They kind of can't burn it down. It's kind of someone's real house.

Come to find out, my Sister lives 15 minutes away from most of the places they shoot most of the show at. So, Walking Dead tour next time I visit

 

[gdt]

Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat? Damn, that was great. Interesting to see where we go from here.

Can't stop won't stop.

I wonder how Robert Kirkman really feels about this show.

He's one of the writers and executive producers. He's very involved.

 

[ultron87]

I hate how cheap Dale's death was. It feels like a death that an angry fan who doesn't like the character would write: "Man, I hate character X. I wish a zombie would come out of nowhere and eat him."

 

[andycapps]

I hate how cheap Dale's death was. It feels like a death that an angry fan who doesn't like the character would write: "Man, I hate character X. I wish a zombie would come out of nowhere and eat him."

Happens in the comic all the time.

 

[Lonestar]

Happens in the comic all the time.

Yep. The rough Outline of the Comic series is: Characters find a place to stay. They make it safe. Have some drama between themselves. Start to believe they're safe. One small thing happens, which snowballs into chaos. Someone dies. Survivors move on. Repeat.


Maybe not exactly like that, but that feels close to being right.

 

[BFIB]

It seemed the writers had an ending in mind, but they just didn't know how to get there. Which led to some extremely sloppy handling of the characters on this episode. Carl two episodes ago telling Lori that they should name the baby Sophia, then this episode telling Carol that her child "isn't in heaven". Andrea, who has not sided with Dale from Day 1, decides to all the sudden side with Dale. As mentioned before, Rick has no issue shooting the two guys in the bar to "protect whats his", but then can't execute the guy they voted on to be killed?

Then Dale, the entire episode. They made him so annoying, that I really didn't even care that he died. If they truly intended to kill Dale, then they should have pushed the "I believe Shane killed Otis" angle, and Shane, knowing that Dale holds the truth, set up Dale to be killed. Either by Walker, or accident. Instead, somehow it went from no one knowing what Shane did, to everyone knowing what Shane did. And the only one who had any sort of proof to the assumption was Darryl, when he pointed out that Shane had Otis' gun when he returned.

 

[ultron87]

Happens in the comic all the time.

Honestly, it is kind of shitty writing in the comics too.

And even then I feel like most of those deaths at least happen when the characters are doing something with a clearly defined goal (clearing the location, looking for supples, etc) instead of just wandering randomly in a field for the sole reason of getting attacked by a zombie.

 

[dave is ok]

Now if the writers knew what they were doing - the events of this episode would lead to

Spoiler

Carl killing the prisoner

.


Reasoning:

Spoiler

The stuck zombie was such a painfully obvious, on-the-nose metaphor for that situation. The zombie was restrained and tortured. When it got free it killed a member of the group

This probably won't happen though because even though the set up is so obvious - the writers have no clue what they are doing.

 

[Lonestar]

It seemed the writers had an ending in mind, but they just didn't know how to get there. Which led to some extremely sloppy handling of the characters on this episode. Carl two episodes ago telling Lori that they should name the baby Sophia, then this episode telling Carol that her child "isn't in heaven". Andrea, who has not sided with Dale from Day 1, decides to all the sudden side with Dale.

Yep

As mentioned before, Rick has no issue shooting the two guys in the bar to "protect whats his", but then can't execute the guy they voted on to be killed?

Attempt to show the difference between taking a life when in imminent danger of being killed, and killing a locked up, unarmed prisoner. Killing him "should" present a moral problem.

Then Dale, the entire episode. They made him so annoying, that I really didn't even care that he died. If they truly intended to kill Dale, then they should have pushed the "I believe Shane killed Otis" angle, and Rick, knowing that Dale holds the truth, set up Dale to be killed. Either by Walker, or accident. Instead, somehow it went from no one knowing what Shane did, to everyone knowing what Shane did.

Yep. Acting wise I think it was ok. The last gasps of civilization, via the spoken word of an old man. But he should have known it was going to happen after talking to 2 or 3 people, and that the meeting at sunset wouldn't make a difference.

And the only one who had any sort of proof to the assumption was Darryl, when he pointed out that Shane had Otis' gun when he returned.

Rick's Gun. Rick gave it to Otis to use when they went out. I remember wondering why no one noticed that Shane brought the gun back, as his story didn't really take into account of how he got that gun back.

 

[andycapps]

Honestly, it is kind of shitty writing in the comics too.

And even then I feel like most of those deaths at least happen when the characters are doing something with a clearly defined goal (clearing the location, looking for supples, etc) instead of just wandering randomly in a field for the sole reason of getting attacked by a zombie.

Dale was investigating what seemed to be a weird sound. No zombies had come that close in to the farm thus far, and it sounded like a cow. And it obviously was one, so it didn't seem like he felt like he was in much danger. One of the recurring themes in the comic is that the survivors are lulled into a false sense of security, Dale seemed to be there as well.

And yeah, is it shitty writing? Yeah, probably, but to act like the comic is a bastion of logic and sound writing is short sighted. Dale dying that suddenly is probably one of the most faithful things that the show has done.

 

[luxarific]

Hilarious. It still stuns me that they're in the South (Georgia, presumably) and there's only one black person in this group. In the last census, people who identify as black made up 20% of the population of the region. Besides T-dog and Jacqui (the lady who went up with the CDC), that's been it for black people (I think we've seen black zombies, but nothing like 20%).

Spoiler

And yes, I know, Michonne, but there should still be more black people (with things to say, even). My bet is that they off T-dog and start fresh with new black actors next season. Maybe Michonne will not be alone.

 

[Crazylegs]

My son and I are really enjoying this Season. We had not really read the comic series coming into the TV series (knew a bit about it, but not really too aware of the major story arcs, etc.). I'm guessing our lack of background with TWD storyline means we're enjoying the TV series in a different way. I'll concede that there have been some dumb-ass developments in the TV series - i.e. Lori's car crash - but on the whole, I just don't feel like the writing is bad. Like I say, my son and I are enjoying the hell out of the TV series.

So I'm curious: Is the hate in this thread more a case of knowing the comic series too well and, therefore, not enjoying that the writing and plot points are simply different? Is the writing really that bad, or is it just different?

Thoughts, GAF?

 

[.GqueB.]

.............Also, my biggest pet peeve was Angela being written as a dumb fuck for 50 minutes of this episode. Who apparently completely forgot about the concepts of justice, mores, norms and societal laws elevating and checking our immoral behavior despite being a fucking civil lawyer? It just irks me how stupid they write these characters at times. It's like the writers deliberately watch old horror movies and are determined to role every eye rolling cliche into this series.

I'm honestly starting to agree with the writer of that article damning serial television when he stated he thinks that this shows staff is unable to execute this format properly.

I hate to say this but I kind of wish the LOST writers were handling this. As shitty as that ending was, they knew how to handle mixing character drama in with the action happening on screen.

When they went wandering into the woods, there was always a reason and it was always intentional. The conversations were always relevant and the situations always had weight. Watching Carl wander into the woods was so awkward to watch. Why is no one watching this kid? Why was Darryl randomly gone? Where was he in relation to the camp and why did he go there? It all seemed so random and disjointed. The characters have no point of view and they change their minds every ep.

At least in LOST I was always generally aware of a characters point of view and why they did what they did. I don't get that feeling here. It's so moment to moment:

"Let's name the baby Sophia's NOT IN HEAVEN!@!!!!@"

So out of nowhere.

 

[Cornballer]

Content roundup:

Reviews:
- Sepinwall
- Onion A|V Club

AMC Content:
- Inside Episode 2.11 "Judge, Jury, Executioner"
- Sneak peek at next week's episode (please spoiler tag any discussion)
- Sneak peek #2 that aired during Comicbook Men (please spoiler tag any discussion)
- Promo for next week's episode (please spoiler tag any discussion)
- IronE Singleton interview with AMC

Other:
- THR interview with Kirkman about tonight's episode *some spoilers for later this season*
- EW.com talks to Kirkman about tonight's episode


Please remember to spoiler tag any preview or sneak peek discussion. If you'd like to talk about leaks or comic books, use the spoiler thread.

 

[Go_Ly_Dow]

Holy shit, Dale!!!! =(((


Noooooo!!!!

 

[Lonestar]

I hate to say this but I kind of wish the LOST writers were handling this. As shitty as that ending was, they knew how to handle mixing character drama in with the action happening on screen.

When they went wandering into the woods, there was always a reason and it was always intentional. The conversations were always relevant and the situations always had weight. Watching Carl wander into the woods was so awkward to watch. Why is no one watching this kid? Why was Darryl randomly gone? Where was he in relation to the camp and why did he go there? It all seemed so random and disjointed. The characters have no point of view and they change their minds every ep.

At least in LOST I was always generally aware of a characters point of view and why they did what they did. I don't get that feeling here. It's so moment to moment:

"Let's name the baby Sophia's NOT IN HEAVEN!@!!!!@"

So out of nowhere.

Well....WAAAAAAALLLLLLLLLTTTTTTTTTTT did some stupid shit too. Lori is totally trying to be like Kate, but failing miserably.

And about the "where's the Black People" comment, how can you forget the guy Herschel Shot (then had his face eaten off). But you have to think, they haven't really went out looking for other people. They came across this family's farm. That's been pretty much it.

 

[Imm0rt4l]

I don't know why Carls acting like a punk all of a sudden.

 

[Lonestar]

I don't know why Carls acting like a punk all of a sudden.

It's the hat.

 

[backflip10019]

This thread is going the way of so many TV threads on GAF. Shit loads of people saying the show is terrible and has been since basically the start, but they'll come back season after season. Melts my chops.

Yeah, but isn't it better to be critical of the shows that you watch rather than to sit back and allow bullshit to happen? The potential is definitely there... it's just been so poorly executed and unrealistic thus far.

 

[.GqueB.]

Well....WAAAAAAALLLLLLLLLTTTTTTTTTTT did some stupid shit too. Lori is totally trying to be like Kate, but failing miserably.

And about the "where's the Black People" comment, how can you forget the guy Herschel Shot (then had his face eaten off). But you have to think, they haven't really went out looking for other people. They came across this family's farm. That's been pretty much it.

Well I'm not saying that there weren't any dumb moments on Lost. Every show has them. But for the most part, I could understand characters motivations and knew why certain things were happening the way they were.

As I said earlier, I don't really understand what the writers were getting at with Dales death. It would've made a lot more sense if Shane was the only person to find him and chose to allow him to die as someone suggested in this thread. At least then there is some tie in. But they seem to be relating that to Carl and that seems foolish. The kid is a horrible actor for one. And he's completely unlikeable.

If they were gonna use him, I would've preferred he be the one to kill the guy. I expected to see him sneak into the barn with the gun and take him out. At least then, it wouldn't be about Carl the character but more about how the characters as a whole are changing and how Dale was right in the end about them losing their humanity. But now they seem to be going after some "if I had killed the zombie earlier Dale wouldn't be dead angle" which that kid won't be able to carry because he's so horrible and uninteresting to watch.

 

[Grisby]

I've seen a lot of character deaths on television. That was the only one that evicted a visceral reaction from me. It was completely random, and so sudden.

I know. I felt my stomach turning. Dale died in a horribly way. A gut wound, ugh.

For anybody that was saying the zombie getting at him with his fingers was stupid, that's classic Romero zombie death man. In fact, near the end of Day of the Dead there is a particular gruesome scene kind of like Dale's.

 

[Lonestar]

I know. I felt my stomach turning. Dale died in a horribly way. A gut wound, ugh.

For anybody that was saying the zombie getting at him with his fingers was stupid, that's classic Romero zombie death man. In fact, near the end of Day of the Dead there is a particular gruesome scene kind of like Dale's.

Shaun of the Dead, friend through the window.

 

[BFIB]

This thread is going the way of so many TV threads on GAF. Shit loads of people saying the show is terrible and has been since basically the start, but they'll come back season after season. Melts my chops.

I've really liked the show from the beginning. But this episode really did fall flat. I still have high hopes. They just need to get off the farm, and get the story moving forward.

 

[Davedough]

I don't know why Carls acting like a punk all of a sudden.

Very minor comic spoilers that I dont even think would be spoilers but putting it up just in case...

Carl's behavior in the comic

Spoiler

begins early on to get very cold and removed from the rest of the group. Its one of Rick's struggles to keep the "kid" inside Carl just that. He tries to grow up entirely too fast, sees a lot of death and heartache around him and just because a cold emotionless child.

Because of this, I think the writers are trying to write that little dynamic into the show and starting out kind of awkwardly as you have seen the last couple of eps.

 

[Martian]

I kinda liked this episode! Good and powerful, unlike other episodes without much action, this one did it right with a surprising ending.

But the only thing that has been bothering me since season 2 is, and it has been mentioned before: the sheer retardedness of people.
I want to punch that Carl kid in the fucking face, I mean wtf: Disrespecting, oblivious and thinking he's old enough to do whatever he pleases. Lori isn't much better, and I think its stupid that Carl is allowed to do so much stuff.
I mean it's a fucking Zombie infested land, and all people do is wander off alone and think it's helping people.

BTW I like the sneakpeak/teaser, it looks like stuff is finally going down. They need to leave that bloody barn already and get back on the road.

 

[Davedough]

I kinda liked this episode! Good and powerful, unlike other episodes without much action, this one did it right with a surprising ending.

But the only thing that has been bothering me since season 2 is, and it has been mentioned before: the sheer retardedness of people.
I want to punch that Carl kid in the fucking face, I mean wtf: Disrespecting, oblivious and thinking he's old enough to do whatever he pleases. Lori isn't much better, and I think its stupid that Carl is allowed to do so much stuff.
I mean it's a fucking Zombie infested land, and all people do is wander off alone and think it's helping people.

BTW I like the sneakpeak/teaser, it looks like stuff is finally going down. They need to leave that bloody barn already and get back on the road.

Judging by who they've said thats already been cast for Season 3, they really DONT want to do that. =)

 

[SpeedingUptoStop]

I was pretty gutted by Dale's death, but what else could they do? it was an all star episode for him:

• He debated every character individually
• He debated them all at ONCE (what's left after that, I mean, really)
• He ended with the greatest Dale face of all time

I mean, the fuck else is there to it he had to die, he fulfilled his destiny of achieving the ultimate Daleface, the show would only go down from there. RIP to one of the only two characters on this show worth watching ( I thought Shane was the one who was gona bite it this ep) even though GRIMES is kind of stepping up his game. RIP to my homie Dale and his face.


Carl is terrible now too, the kid is a completely psycho, schizophrenic mania taking over his brain. Seriously, what is this kid? He's all fucking blood thirsty like a demon baby but he can only toss rocks at a zombie? He's all "let's name the kid sophia" and now it's "SOPHIA IS DONE, YO"? Why the fuck is he wandering in the woods by himself or doing anything by himself? Why is Shane teaching him out to live his life? GRIMES, get a hold of your shit, for the love of fucking God.

Lori, Andrea, Carol, and Carl need to take a car ride off a fucking cliff and never come back.


Also, for the love of god, T-DAWG, I feel so bad for this guy. Herschel's worthlesss kids have had more screen time than him in the past couple episodes. Thankfully the preview featured more of him than all the episodes he's been in this season, so he'll probably be mercifully be put out of existence in the next ep. I feel bad for the chracter, but atleast the actor is getting mad money to say one line per episode. Probably spent most of his shooting days living it up at the casino.



In any case, Glen Mazzarra is delivering a higher ratio of good to piss poor fucking dumb shit than the Darabont era, so props to him for that. Hopefuly he just keeps killing off characters like I prayed when this season started.

 

[Finalow]

damn. =(
I want the last Dale face please.

 

[terrdactycalsrock]

Agreed. They're all fucking stupid.

"Aw, I'm mad for some reason. I'm going to go storming away in the woods." This happened TWICE in this episode. It's a FUCKING ZOMBIE APOCALYPSE. Stay the fuck in camp with the others, you idiots.

People are still going to be people even in a fucking zombie apocalypse. Sometimes people are going to get mad and storm out just like in real life, why? Because we need to be alone after we have had a fight with someone or if your a little kid and you had just been scolded at in front of a bunch of other people.

 

[Slurpy2k20]

Thoughts:

So happy Dale is dead. He's been laying it on way too thick lately, and was just unbearable during that episode. I don't think I could have stood another 'IF WE DO THIS WE WILL LOSE OUR SOULS' speech, and attempting to guilt trip anyone who didn't share his view. That plot point was getting tired, it was time for him to go. It's one think to have a strong opinion, it's another to impose it on everyone and have a fucking fit when it doesn't go your way, especially when you're unable to articulate a viable solution. Probably 99.9% of humanity is zombified, there's a few people left over. Killing someone if he endangers the safety of the whole group is necessary, even if difficult. Not like they're all relishing the thought of doing it out of bloodlust. Oh, and I'll just go run into the woods at night, cause I'm mad and stuff.

Oh, and Carl deserved to die too, what a little shit. 'Hey, I'm just gonna go dance around with this Zombie thats only stuck in this half a foot of mud, and wave a gun at him for a long as time until he decides to come after me. Oh, then I'll completely neglect to mention to anyone the small fact that there's a fucking zombie, who can pretty much walk onto the farm at anytime and kill people in their sleep.'

Can't stand when people act in utterly irrational ways in shows just to establish a plot device. Both these characters deserved to die for their sheer idiocy. Also, the 'everyone acts like an idiot' meme is making this show a joke and annoying to watch. The last episode was even worse, the amount of utter irrationality exhibited by both Shane and Rick was off the charts. HEY THIS IS A PERFECT PLACE TO HAVE A BRAWL, IN THE MIDDLE OF FUCKING NOWHERE!

 

[backflip10019]

People are still going to be people even in a fucking zombie apocalypse. Sometimes people are going to get mad and storm out just like in real life, why? Because we need to be alone after we have had a fight with someone or if your a little kid and you had just been scolded at in front of a bunch of other people.

I understand having to be alone after having your feelings hurt, but don't go into the fucking woods or the dark alone when there are zombies lurking. They've seen this time and time again with other characters and yet still make the mistake.

Here's an idea: That house looks pretty fucking big. Go sulk in a room in a dark corner alone by yourself, see if I give a shit. But don't go out in the fucking woods without telling anyone and then be surprised that a zombie rips your fucking innards out of your belly button.

 

[Lord Snow]

ripynwa dale.

How many episodes are left?

 

[Cornballer]

How many episodes are left?

Two

 

[SamuraiX-]

Specific spoilers for ep 12 are out there. Guy says he won't spoil the finale. "It's just too awesome to spoil."

FFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU

Can't wait. It's gonna suck having to wait a whole 'nother half a year for more TWD after the next two weeks though. :'(

 

[Combine]

Thinking back on it it really shouldn't have been a surprised Dale would get offed at the end of the episode. The focus on him and his speeches were clearly a swan song for the character, especially when he admitted to the whole group that he'd not live in such a world, and what do you know, the world agreed.

Dammit, this got me. It's like he just randomly disappears and then shows up out of nowhere.

 

[-Plasma Reus-]

I audibly went ''What? T-dog was here all a long?".
Really a shame that the zombie didn't get Carl. Carl is such a horrible little shit lately. I wouldn't be surprised if Carl ran over to T-dog and shouted racial slurs at him now.

 

[Pachterballs]

I don't get the amount of love dale gets from you guys. He doesn't really do anything and goes from person to person preaching about this that.

but yeah, the carl + zombie bit with him prancing around like an idiot. For fuck sake....

also agree about the brawl in the last episode (but I was more put off by the fact that the guy can more or less walk... righhhhtt *BULLSHIT!*)

 

[SpeedingUptoStop]

also agree about the brawl in the last episode (but I was more put off by the fact that the guy can more or less walk... righhhhtt *BULLSHIT!*)

Hershel is an expert physician for only operating on animals.


Also, props to Daryl for wasting the stitch job by tearing them out again. Gotta use as many resources as possible!

 

[sooperkool]

Now if the writers knew what they were doing - the events of this episode would lead to

Spoiler

Carl killing the prisoner

.


I soo thought this was/is going to happen

 

[Saerk]

I'm thinking Randall will grab that gun Carl lost, and cause some shit.

 

[scosher]

I feel like the writers of this show work backwards. Instead of letting the characters actions drive the plot, they have some end point they want to reach but don't know exactly how to get from Point A to Point B.

So they conjure up some contrived circumstances or make characters do absolutely retarded, nonsensical things, just to get to the point where Dale dies, Carl's at fault, and the rest of the group feels guilty.

I'm sure other writers do the same too (Breaking Bad, Game of Thrones, etc.), but usually those showrunners have the sense to scrap their roadmap if it makes zero sense for the characters, or try to find a way to get to Point B without making it feel contrived.

 

[Pachterballs]

hershel also had super duper pain killers that lasted xzillionth hours. Drove about 18 miles out to that school and he wasn't bowled over in pain...

and then

They never show the guy in pain since.. (except when he's tortured)

 

[Chinner]

how many eps are there in this season? 12 ?

 

[SamuraiX-]

I don't get the amount of love dale gets from you guys. He doesn't really do anything and goes from person to person preaching about this that.

He was the only genuine moral compass left in the group (probably the only one that ever was). It'll be interesting to see what the group spirals into now after he's gone. It was pretty much inevitable for the main cast of survivors to become more and more ruthless with every new walker they killed and every new antagonistic survivor they meet, but now they have the potential to go full fucking retard because with Dale died the last humane/moral connection anyone in the group had with the old world. Plus, the guy was just the cool old dude and easily one of the best actors in this show.

And now that I think of it, the only real scene that irked me in this last episode was Herschel passing off his father's pocket watch to Glenn "because of what happened back at the bar"?? The scene seemed out of place in general, but I didn't understand how Glenn's actions in town convinced Herschel that he was right for Maggie.

Also, speculative spoiler?

Spoiler

I think the scene may signify that Herschel's death is imminent. Probably happening within the next couple of episodes.

how many eps are there in this season? 12 ?

13.

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

I think (well I know) that people here are quick to judge. I think people should watch the next 2 episodes before you start picking at everything the writers have chosen to do recently, because it's all leading to a few things. Important things.

 

[Emerson]

I feel like the writers of this show work backwards. Instead of letting the characters actions drive the plot, they have some end point they want to reach but don't know exactly how to get from Point A to Point B.

So they conjure up some contrived circumstances or make characters do absolutely retarded, nonsensical things, just to get to the point where Dale dies, Carl's at fault, and the rest of the group feels guilty.

I'm sure other writers do the same too (Breaking Bad, Game of Thrones, etc.), but usually those showrunners have the sense to scrap their roadmap if it makes zero sense for the characters, or try to find a way to get to Point B without making it feel contrived.

Absolutely. I was just saying this to my roommate last night. They know where they went to go but are horrible at getting there without forcing the characters to do ridiculous things. The writing on this show is atrocious the majority of the time. I like the new showrunner and the second half of the season has showed promise, but the show still shits the bed more often than not.

Even worse we have a lot of people who think these comic books are the pinnacle of literature or something. It's all pretty shoddy stuff from a real writing perspective.