tkscz
Member
Ok That I can agree with. With XBX still being a focus (but XBO being the base) won't see much out of the XSS until the XBX /O are out.
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Tom Warren: XSS specs (20CU at 1.55Ghz ≈ 3.97TF, similar CPU to XSX, PCIe4 SSD ,, >250W, 10GB of ram and no disk drive)
Ok That I can agree with. With XBX still being a focus (but XBO being the base) won't see much out of the XSS until the XBX /O are out.
recursive
Member
Are you dense? Why promote 1000s of backward compatible games if you have to re buy them digitally?? Buy my new console so you can pay for old games again!
Thanks for laugh. You have award for dumbest post of generation.
Kuranghi
Member
Agree however. Disk and Disc drive is fucking my brain. I cannot search for that, because in Czech everything is "disk". So that is not helpful, is it a thing in English. Because "c" is read as "k", based on what were are teached, so dunno. I am re-learning English and certain this were/are troubling
Here you go: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spelling_of_disc
edit - https://grammarist.com/spelling/disc-disk/
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THE DUCK
Banned
You might want to rethink your position, there is a very large percentage of us gamers who already have an extensive digital collection that ms is charging nothing to bring along and even enhance.
Not only that, they are easily shareable between mutiple users of the household, even playing simultaneously. Try that with a disc.
recursive
Member
What a stupid reply. That is exactly what they are doing to consumers that supported them through extensive disc based libraries. Try to crtitically think.
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recursive
Member
What is there to rethink? I am not saying digital is not OK, just pointing out that there are also those that have extensive 360 and OG disc based libraries too.
Thicc Enigma
Member
It is sarcasm after all
THE DUCK
Banned
If your library is extensive, and you really don't want to rebuy, get an x. (Probably getting one anyhow if u own a ton of xbox games)
If not, I bet you could rebuy all the best games in your collection for very little if you get them on sale. Hardly the end of the world that it doesn't have an optical drive.
Thicc Enigma
Member
Ok Don Mattrick
recursive
Member
Let's not make excuses. Either MS is consumer friendly or not. I have probably a couple hundred games on disc.
I am fortunate enough to be in a position to be able to do that but many others are not.
fighterman101
Banned
We call them playstation owners.
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THE DUCK
Banned
Seriously, out of those 200 games, how many will you go back and replay? If its more than 20% I'd be surprised.
Thicc Enigma
Member
It's probably less but I feel people want this just to have it and say they have it and not use it extensively.
Personally I prefer to play the new shit and on a random occasion play an older game.
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DarkMage619
$MSFT
I think Phil was talking about excluding XB1 not XSS. This is something MS marketing need to make crystal clear.
TLZ
Banned
Usually disc is used for CDs, DVDs, Blurays. Disk is used for floppy disk, hard disk.
sainraja
Member
SO, backwards compatibility isn't really that important, after all? hmm?
TLZ
Banned
I'm unsure whether this is correct or not, but iirc I think MS said you'll be able to exchange your discs for digital versions. Or maybe your account detects you have the game on disc therefore you can download the digital version for free.
Let's see.
PS5 digital edition doesn’t have a disc drive either whats your point? There is a disc and discless version for both Playstation and Xbox. Why is it so hard to comprehend? Playstation is marketing backwards compatibility also.
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Kumomeme
Member
so this console competitor probably all digital version of PS5. but still depend on how much the range of the price Sony decided to put on PS5 and PS5 digital. This could benefit them, or backfire hard which is probably why both company still didnt want to reveal their price yet.
long term, Sony probably gonna release smaller and cheaper slim version of both too coupled with exclusives line up and bundle which is could sway the market again.
this idea of 'game pass machine' might more successfull if they somehow can make the console sit on its 'own market' even compared to its superior brother.
but on other aspect considering xbox's next gen exclusives also must scalable to this xbox series s weaker specs also probably mean 'lower' and scalable minimum requirement for pc version counterpart too, assuming their games indeed all come to pc which is, benefit low and midrange user pc users. But dont know how it would be for 3rd party. How much price and performance of low and midrange pc in coming future also is question, considering their game also available there. This could affected the consoles sales too but assuming MS doesnt care people buy their console or not as long people subs to their services so it should be not much of a worry. Ofcourse, how this console end up perform especially long term is important too.
eitherway, gamepass is attractive but a good, interesting exclusives is still important to 'seal' the deal completely. Lot of advantages if they can build mindshare from that while assuming there no other competitor emerges. It is important too for them to secure lot of day 1 timed exclusives, since if the rumors of Sony throwing money for them, assuming they can 'snatched away' casuals favourite game like GTA or COD, those casuals perception of value surely will affected if MS want them to buy these 'casuals targetted' console.
long term, Sony probably gonna release smaller and cheaper slim version of both too coupled with exclusives line up and bundle which is could sway the market again.
this idea of 'game pass machine' might more successfull if they somehow can make the console sit on its 'own market' even compared to its superior brother.
but on other aspect considering xbox's next gen exclusives also must scalable to this xbox series s weaker specs also probably mean 'lower' and scalable minimum requirement for pc version counterpart too, assuming their games indeed all come to pc which is, benefit low and midrange user pc users. But dont know how it would be for 3rd party. How much price and performance of low and midrange pc in coming future also is question, considering their game also available there. This could affected the consoles sales too but assuming MS doesnt care people buy their console or not as long people subs to their services so it should be not much of a worry. Ofcourse, how this console end up perform especially long term is important too.
eitherway, gamepass is attractive but a good, interesting exclusives is still important to 'seal' the deal completely. Lot of advantages if they can build mindshare from that while assuming there no other competitor emerges. It is important too for them to secure lot of day 1 timed exclusives, since if the rumors of Sony throwing money for them, assuming they can 'snatched away' casuals favourite game like GTA or COD, those casuals perception of value surely will affected if MS want them to buy these 'casuals targetted' console.
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Good points, The good thing about Series S they can be agile on price because it seems with the Spec downgrade they wont take as much as a hit to their bottom line as Sony might with the Digital edition.
MrFunSocks
Banned
Not in any way, shape, or form.
MrFunSocks
Banned
Next gen console at possibly the price of the existing gen consoles is extremely consumer friendly though.
Sir Vilhelm
Member
Fact is disks are dead and have been for a generation. Nice troll though
If you're an enthusiast that buys disks then you're not eyeing the series S anyway.
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JTCx
Member
Yo Don good to know youre still around with your pro consumer hot takes.
Kumomeme
Member
not really. Physical disc still alive and there huge used market for it especially at those asians countries.
also he mean that he already has old 360 disc lying around so it wasted if cant be inserted to this new console despite actually having bc compability.
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Oddspeak
Member
Even Microsoft disagrees with this, considering they've chosen to discontinue the Xbox One S All-Digital, which has only been out for little over a year.
Aladin
Member
There are lot of old game disc in circulation, One S with disc drive seems logical choice.
BluRayHiDef
Banned
A teraflop of RDNA2 is said to be 62% more efficient than a teraflop of GCN. Hence, 3.97 teraflops translates to 6.4314 teraflops of GCN.
Kamina
Golden Boy
What he failed to tell you though is that you get your own shame thread if you report too much.
MrFunSocks
Banned
Why do you think that is? Could it have anything to do with the diskless Series XS coming out maybe?
digital sales make up over 50% of all game sales now. With this next generation it’ll be over 75% within 2-3 years most likely. Disks are going the way of the dodo like they did with music and movies.
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Entroyp
Member
I thought it was 62% more transistors, not 62% more efficient? It’s more efficient for sure though.
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PistolGrip
sex vacation in Guam
This is a bold move on the part of MS. I applaud them. It's a high risk move, and they had to take risk this generation.
My business gut tells me it's too aggressive, and likely going to be a disaster. The underdog supporter inside me wants to believe that MS could redefine consoles by creating the top streaming service for gaming. They likely want to sell as many XSS boxes as possible with GamePass and then take over with streaming services similar to the original Netflix with discs. This would end console generations as we know them. I have no doubt this is their strategy, given everything we have heard and seen.
The problem with MS is underestimating the need for early adopters. The target for XSS is happy with their XBOne and PS4. A true disruptive product must be uniquely great in one dimension relative to price. Price by itself is an easy dimension to target but that doesnt work when there are alternative options at even cheaper costs. Stadia really would have been a disruptive product but it requires you to buy games so it's dead in the water. Stadia should have offered hardcore games that it offer for a low streaming price and avoided the big franchises.
Anyway this is fascinating.
My business gut tells me it's too aggressive, and likely going to be a disaster. The underdog supporter inside me wants to believe that MS could redefine consoles by creating the top streaming service for gaming. They likely want to sell as many XSS boxes as possible with GamePass and then take over with streaming services similar to the original Netflix with discs. This would end console generations as we know them. I have no doubt this is their strategy, given everything we have heard and seen.
The problem with MS is underestimating the need for early adopters. The target for XSS is happy with their XBOne and PS4. A true disruptive product must be uniquely great in one dimension relative to price. Price by itself is an easy dimension to target but that doesnt work when there are alternative options at even cheaper costs. Stadia really would have been a disruptive product but it requires you to buy games so it's dead in the water. Stadia should have offered hardcore games that it offer for a low streaming price and avoided the big franchises.
Anyway this is fascinating.
THE DUCK
Banned
Just because I am only interested in backwards compatibility of the best games for each generation? That makes no sense.
I don't think I should apologize for not caring if Leisure Suit Larry: Box Office Bust plays on recursive's lockheart machine that he was never going to buy in the first place. (if he's really the hardcore gamer he says he is he was going to buy an series X anyhow)
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THE DUCK
Banned
I love having a case and all, but disks suck in terms of convenience, it will be even more obvious when games load in one second from SSD. Being able to play any game in my collection in any room without moving disks.
Being able to have multiple members of the family play the same game at the same time with one copy. This generation will be even more digital, Sony launching a digital version is being heralded as a good idea, MS does it any it's anti-consumer.
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Justin9mm
Member
Yeah 1440p 60fps is a good gamepass machine at the right price. I can just see the 'S' making the X an unfavourable buy to some.
The less plastic used the better.
Justin9mm
Member
From what I understand, shouldn't it just be the res downgraded to 1440p to achieve framerate, its still the same tech as Series X. Series S is faster than the One X and the One X was able to do 1800p 60fps.Microsoft wants to have the most powerful console (X), and also the cheapest console (S).
My question is .... Series S will be a problem for Series X? their games will have to be optimized for Series S as well and could be a problem for developers wanting to exploit Series X?
It's the Xbox One S that is the problem.
Are you equally concerned about the digital only version of the PS5?
MrFunSocks
Banned
The One S isn’t a problem though because it’s being phased out already. No one is being forced to make games for it.
All the leaks and rumours said the S would be a 1080p version of the X, so these 1440p ones are a bit weird. What’s the point in doing 1440p? Just because it might have enough power to do it? I’d rather they focus on 1080p max for it instead of having devs try stretch it to a res barely anyone uses.
MastaKiiLA
Member
XSS must be fairly cheap to make, because I don't see how economies of scale work to your advantage with 2 SKUs. One or both products stands to lose out in that race.
Sleepwalker
Member
It really is. I don't have a 4k TV or Monitor, and don't really care about anything higher than 60 FPS as I don't really play fighting games or online shooters that much if at all. If the price is really tempting I might just grab one of these and forget the X.
Zoro7
Banned
The PS5 digital edition isn’t the same thing as the series S.
Its there for those who predominantly purchased digital games on PS4 and will continue to do so on PS5. It’s the same console in 2 versions.
Series S is not the same version as Series X. Microsoft has been heavily publicising backwards compatible. Sony hasn’t. With the series S you can’t play your discs and you will have to spend double the price to do so.
Texture streaming from the SSD may help and better compression techniques will mean the same textures in ram use less space.
Elog
Member
From a distance it seems to me as if MS has painted themselves into a corner.
Gamepass is a fantastic value for us gamers but a loss-leader product that is used as a customer acquisition tool.
If MS then chooses to both make a loss on XSX and XSS due to low prices, it would mean that the gaming division would be bleeding money like a shot pig.
In such a scenario, Phil would be under the gun to turn things around over the next 24 months or so. And given the lack of first party titles, it is hard to see that happening without price adjustments of gamepass and/or hardware.
I think the most likely scenario, is that MS continues to take a loss on gamepass to acquire customers into their eco-system but for sustainability not be willing to bleed heavily on the hardware. If that is correct, XSX and XSS will be priced higher than people expect.
The last paragraph would be logical. "We do not care how many consoles we sell". "We do not care what players play on as long as they play with us". It also explains the XSS - in that context that console makes sense.
Playstation is extremely profitable on software and subscriptions so they can take quite a hit on the PS5.
This will be interesting.
This brings up a good point. I have been using RDNA vs GCN scaling to estimate actual performance for series S but Cerny already gave us the answer which as you say is 62% more performance per flop.
That means that RDNA2 has around a 20% IPC increase which is inline with expectations because AMD are advertising a 50% perr/watt increase and to achieve that some will come from power saving that can be used to boost clock speeds and the rest will come from better utilisation.
prinz_valium
Member
Microsoft will have 2 SKUs with a disk drive
The Xbox One and Series X
Just the Series S will be disk less.
So if you really need to play your disks and won't use a digital trade in program, you have to use either one of those and can't use the Series S.
That's not consumer unfriendly, it's decision making. You can have it ALL
I also would like a disk less Series X. Do I get it? No!
Fucking consumer unfriendly company.
The Xbox One and Series X
Just the Series S will be disk less.
So if you really need to play your disks and won't use a digital trade in program, you have to use either one of those and can't use the Series S.
That's not consumer unfriendly, it's decision making. You can have it ALL
I also would like a disk less Series X. Do I get it? No!
Fucking consumer unfriendly company.
I think you're trying too hard to make one evil and the other a fabulous option offered out of love.
Series S is a budget entry point for people who want a cheaper alternative, much like the digital PS5, though likely much cheaper. The digital PS5 will attract some people who have a collection of discs but opt to go digital from now on, just as the Series S will.
If you have a large disc collection that you want to keep using, then neither the Series S nor the PS5 digital is the console for you.
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