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[Zoro7]

I think you're trying too hard to make one evil and the other a fabulous option offered out of love.

Series S is a budget entry point for people who want a cheaper alternative, much like the digital PS5, though likely much cheaper. The digital PS5 will attract some people who have a collection of discs but opt to go digital from now on, just as the Series S will.

If you have a large disc collection that you want to keep using, then neither the Series S nor the PS5 digital is the console for you.

It’s not about being evil, it’s about marketing. Microsoft has heavily marked backwards compatibility. That’s my issue.

 

[Thicc Enigma]

I think you're trying too hard to make one evil and the other a fabulous option offered out of love.

Series S is a budget entry point for people who want a cheaper alternative, much like the digital PS5, though likely much cheaper. The digital PS5 will attract some people who have a collection of discs but opt to go digital from now on, just as the Series S will.

If you have a large disc collection that you want to keep using, then neither the Series S nor the PS5 digital is the console for you.

I'll dumb this down for you.

Xbox Series X: All the bells and whistles and with a disc drive. Let's say $499

Xbox Series S: Less bells and whistles, no disc drive. Let's say $299.

PS5 Thicc: All the bells and whistles and with a disc drive. Let's say $499

PS5 Digital: All the bells and whistles, no disc drive. Let's say $399

With the PS5 you're getting everything next gen has to offer no matter if you get the version with the disc drive or not. With Xbox you have have to pay significantly more just to get all the bells and whistles and a disc drive.

I think it would be best if the Series S came with a disc drive and one without let's say at $249 and $299 to secure each respective market.

Personally, I could care less about disc drives as all my games are digital but I can see how this would be a difficult decision for people.

 

[BluRayHiDef]

I thought it was 62% more transistors, not 62% more efficient? It’s more efficient for sure though.

Semantics.

 

[DarkMage619]

I'll dumb this down for you.

Xbox Series X: All the bells and whistles and with a disc drive. Let's say $499

Xbox Series S: Less bells and whistles, no disc drive. Let's say $299.

PS5 Thicc: All the bells and whistles and with a disc drive. Let's say $499

PS5 Digital: All the bells and whistles, no disc drive. Let's say $399

With the PS5 you're getting everything next gen has to offer no matter if you get the version with the disc drive or not. With Xbox you have have to pay significantly more just to get all the bells and whistles and a disc drive.

I think it would be best if the Series S came with a disc drive and one without let's say at $249 and $299 to secure each respective market.

Personally, I could care less about disc drives as all my games are digital but I can see how this would be a difficult decision for people.

Is there a budget PS5 option or do non-elites need not apply?

 

[Silent Viper]

I still dont see how this wont hinder series x games after halo infinite disaster.

CpU same and ssd same. Any work which involves gpu n all can be scaled up and down. Gpu also based on rdna 2 navi. Everything based on next gen architecture just less power.


Navi way more efficient and faster than One X gpu. Don't read much inti 4TFs. That shit gonna destroy One X

 

[mrBarrelNut]

I'll dumb this down for you.

Xbox Series X: All the bells and whistles and with a disc drive. Let's say $499

Xbox Series S: Less bells and whistles, no disc drive. Let's say $299.

PS5 Thicc: All the bells and whistles and with a disc drive. Let's say $499

PS5 Digital: All the bells and whistles, no disc drive. Let's say $399

With the PS5 you're getting everything next gen has to offer no matter if you get the version with the disc drive or not. With Xbox you have have to pay significantly more just to get all the bells and whistles and a disc drive.

All those price numbers are imaginary at this point, and choosing different imaginary numbers will change the equation.

For example, following scenario is also possible:

PS5: $599
PS5 digital: $499
XSX: $499
XSS: $299

Here the XSS would be quite desirable based on price alone.

 

[Calverz]

Yeah, let's revisit this and remember that the person who spread the news was demodded because he wanted to even things up because he felt things were "one sided"

Let's also remember that game development, no matter if your machine is 20tf or 10tf, devs encounter issues/hiccups/bumps whatever you wanna call it along the line of creating something. This was already squashed so bringing it up makes no sense.

He actually said that devs, at this moment in time, were struggling to hit 1080p 60fps in re8 but would expect them to have it running a lot better for launch. Ie. 4k60 or whatever. He then said that he had heard from others the xsx was more powerful the ps5 and differences would be noticeable on 3rd party titles.
Just because he was demodded from what has effectively become a Sony fanclub site, doesnt mean he is wrong or debunked. Its obvious he was misinterpreted by what would appear mostly by blind fanboys.
The proof will be in the pudding as they say.

 

[Panajev2001a]

CpU same and ssd same. Any work which involves gpu n all can be scaled up and down. Gpu also based on rdna 2 navi. Everything based on next gen architecture just less power.


Navi way more efficient and faster than One X gpu. Don't read much inti 4TFs. That shit gonna destroy One X

It is interesting as it will have a RAM deficiency against the One X, likely only 8 GB of RAM available to games and if you see a game pushing very strongly for RT and other expensive techniques bringing to native 1440p on XSX, should we expect sub 1080p native on XSS or less?

Also, it apparently is not just CU count being reduced, but clockspeed too (we do not know if they go with 3 DCU per Shader Array and this still keep the same amount of ROP’s and Geometry Engine resources as XSX).

Reducing the clockspeed does lower fill rate, triangle processing, and the performance of other fixed components that are outside of the CU’s: before CU’s can transform and shade those vertices and fragments you need the geometry to go through a processing phase (clip, setup, rasterise, etc...) that has a lower ceiling limit on XSS. Essentially: if you try to maximise the geometry throughput (think UE5’s micro polygons based engine) of XSX you will have a resolution independent problem on XSS (meaning that lowering resolution does not help you much, you need to focus more on rejecting tiny triangles with little screen coverage).

 

[anothertech]

Oh shit! SeS is a handheld isn't it!?

 

[Panajev2001a]

Oh shit! SeS is a handheld isn't it!?

200+ Watts... not likely...

 

[Phrixotrichus]

What do developers do on pc?

Port console games or target low end level crap hardware to reach the broadest possible audience, for the most part.

 

[Black_Stride]

Are you dense? Why promote 1000s of backward compatible games if you have to re buy them digitally?? Buy my new console so you can pay for old games again!

Thanks for laugh. You have award for dumbest post of generation.

You see why I said we have to protect these concerned parties.
They are too precious to let go of.
Hehehehe
Dont report this guy.

If you think the digital future isnt already here I feel for you.
As we approach end of life something like 70% of game sales are digital, so your games are more than likely digital already.
Add in Gamepass and you are getting a hell of a deal for whatever the Series S costs.

If the game you are bringing forward isnt on GP and/or you didnt buy it digitally, maybe you didnt really like the game that much you wont miss it.
You could of course buy a Series X since you are such a huge Xbox Fan and have a huge library of Physical disks you still want to play.

Series S = Cheap entry to nextgen and a Gamepass Box
Series X = Nextgen Xbox for the enthusiast.

A person with a huge physical library of OG X, X360 and XB1 games is likely to buy the Series X.
People the Series S is for arent exactly crying because they cant play that OG X game on their new console..........your concern while admirable is mistaken.

I like you, im going to call you fluffy.

 

[Thicc Enigma]

Is there a budget PS5 option or do non-elites need not apply?

Ask Sony

 

[Thicc Enigma]

All those price numbers are imaginary at this point, and choosing different imaginary numbers will change the equation.

For example, following scenario is also possible:

PS5: $599
PS5 digital: $499
XSX: $499
XSS: $299

Here the XSS would be quite desirable based on price alone.

I think the Series S is desirable regardless of other consoles prices. I just think that they should also make a disc version Series S for that market that is still alive and well, even if the digital market is doing better.

 

[Calverz]

Port console games or target low end level crap hardware to reach the broadest possible audience, for the most part.

Exactly. And what results do we see? Flight simulator 2020. End of story.

 

[Phrixotrichus]

Exactly. And what results do we see? Flight simulator 2020. End of story.

You`re a simple fella, aren`t you?

 

[John254]

Higher the prices of "high-end consoles" would be, the more popular Xbox Series S will be.

I can imagine, that if Microsoft and Sony will go for 599$ price tag, Series S will fly of the shelves.

Xbox Series X/PS5 - 599$
PS5 DE - 549/499$
Xbox Series S - 399/349$

And you have your great Game Pass machine.

 

[Black_Stride]

Higher the prices of "high-end consoles" would be, the more popular Xbox Series S will be.

I can imagine, that if Microsoft and Sony will go for 599$ price tag, Series S will fly of the shelves.

Xbox Series X/PS5 - 599$
PS5 DE - 549/499$
Xbox Series S - 399/349$

And you have your great Game Pass machine.

If Sony make the DE 100 dollars cheaper and in the ~400 range they are in the money.
The Series S will have to heavily undercut that to make sense.....100 less might not even be enough.

 

[Oddspeak]

That graph is misleading. The "Digital" figure includes subscriptions, add-ons/DLC, and mobile and social network gaming -- essentially, a metric ton of stuff that can only be obtained digitally.

A more effective comparison would be digital vs. physical figures of games that have physical releases, because that would actually show how many people choose digital over physical when both are available.

 

[T-Cake]

Isn't this just a Xbox one X with a stronger cpu and weaker gpu? Why are people excited?

I can't believe people are still not realising just how much difference an SSD makes to your computing/gaming experience.

 

[Phrixotrichus]

I like you, im going to call you fluffy.

On the other hand we have official Sony financial reports from 2019 claiming digital amounted to about 53%...when it should already be near the 90% according to your graph.
I´ve seen that graph before but since the span was so wide and there is no free access to the sources I call bs...at least for consoles.

 

[John254]

If Sony make the DE 100 dollars cheaper and in the ~400 range they are in the money.
The Series S will have to heavily undercut that to make sense.....100 less might not even be enough.

Thing is. Series S is targeted for the customers who don't give a damn about TFLOPs numbers and stuff like that and their only questions are
Will it be able to play next-gen games?
How much it costs?

 

[SSfox]

Microsoft will be the only brand that managed to make more consoles than games.

 

[Redlight]

I'll dumb this down for you.

Xbox Series X: All the bells and whistles and with a disc drive. Let's say $499

Xbox Series S: Less bells and whistles, no disc drive. Let's say $299.

PS5 Thicc: All the bells and whistles and with a disc drive. Let's say $499

PS5 Digital: All the bells and whistles, no disc drive. Let's say $399

With the PS5 you're getting everything next gen has to offer no matter if you get the version with the disc drive or not. With Xbox you have have to pay significantly more just to get all the bells and whistles and a disc drive.

I think it would be best if the Series S came with a disc drive and one without let's say at $249 and $299 to secure each respective market.

Personally, I could care less about disc drives as all my games are digital but I can see how this would be a difficult decision for people.

Well, while we're dumbing it down.

The original issue was people with large disc libraries they they want to keep using. Those people cannot purchase the PS5 digital or Series S.

Those customers will need to 'pay significantly more just to get all the bells and whistles and a disc drive' in both cases.

 

[MastaKiiLA]

That graph is misleading. The "Digital" figure includes subscriptions, add-ons/DLC, and mobile and social network gaming -- essentially, a metric ton of stuff that can only be obtained digitally.

A more effective comparison would be digital vs. physical figures of games that have physical releases, because that would actually show how many people choose digital over physical when both are available.

On the other hand we have official Sony financial reports from 2019 claiming digital amounted to about 53%...when it should already be near the 90% according to your graph.
I´ve seen that graph before but since the span was so wide and there is no free access to the sources I call bs...at least for consoles.

I think revenue is the most important metric here, and the trend that's forming. The trendline pointing in the same direction as a majority share of revenue is the flashing red light to change strategy.

That said, the music industry is a case study in volume being a lead indicator. The amount of MP3 downloads was swelling, while music companies continued to push CDs. So naturally, people just started pirating. Only when they properly embraced digital sales did they recover financially. So maybe Sony and MS are reading the tea leaves, and seeing volume of digital sales increasing, and if Sony reported 53% revenue from digital, that's all the information they'd need to know that digital models are a smart decision this generation. Future systems might only offer limited run SKUs with drives. The almost-vestigial remnants of an ancient past.

 

[John254]

Microsoft will be the only brand that managed to make more consoles than games.

Yeah?
Because as far as I know, Microsoft will have less consoles on the shelves the moment next-gen releases
Microsoft - Xbox One S, Xbox Series S, Xbox Series X
Sony - Playstation 4 Slim, Playstation 4 Pro, Playstation 5 DE, Playstation 5

 

[SSfox]

Yeah?
Because as far as I know, Microsoft will have less consoles on the shelves the moment next-gen releases
Microsoft - Xbox One S, Xbox Series S, Xbox Series X
Sony - Playstation 4 Slim, Playstation 4 Pro, Playstation 5 DE, Playstation 5

Huh? Your comparison is weird

PS4 and Pro aren't new consoles, and PS5 DE is just PS5 without disk player. Xbox series X and Series S are totally 2 different consoles in pretty much all aspects.

 

[Ascend]

>250w? I hope they mean <250W.

 

[Justin9mm]

No disk drive? They don't remember the Xbox One S digital only sold about 12 boxes worldwide?

Its seriously just a gamepass game console. It's what they want people to buy just to get on to Gamepass as a cheap next gen entry point. That's all it is. The Series X is for the serious gamer who will buy lots of multiplats and want best performance. There are probably so many casuals who probably fit the Series S criteria. Especially still being powerful enough to easily output everything at 1440p/60. If it's cheap enough it will be much more desirable then series X, its more powerful than One X and its going to be cheaper than the One X was, that's why they discontinued the One X, it doesn't fit in their business model.

 

[Malte]

While it is difficult to argue that the concept behind the Series S console is not consumer friendly, I wonder what impact this strategy will have on the developers and enthusiasts.
Microsoft strategy to push for having games run on as many platforms/consoles as possible leads to a level of fragmentation that is unprecedented. One should also consider that, if the Series S becomes Microsoft best-selling console, developers will shift resources to optimizing games for Series S rather maxxing out technological limits on the Series X.

It is also worth pointing out that never has Sony or Microsoft ever deliberately released a consoler that is substantially weaker (in some regards) than their flagship product. Will be interesting to see how this will all play out for Microsoft and the XBox brand.

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

>250w? I hope they mean <250W.

TweakTown don't know what they're talking about. The XSS will have a PSU rated between the Xbox One S (120W) and PS4 slim (165W) and consume around 120W or less at the wall given the proposed specs. IMO.

 

[TTOOLL]

All those price numbers are imaginary at this point, and choosing different imaginary numbers will change the equation.

For example, following scenario is also possible:

PS5: $599
PS5 digital: $499
XSX: $499
XSS: $299

Here the XSS would be quite desirable based on price alone.

So people would buy the XSS, what would happen to the XBX? lol

 

[mckmas8808]

All those price numbers are imaginary at this point, and choosing different imaginary numbers will change the equation.

For example, following scenario is also possible:

PS5: $599
PS5 digital: $499
XSX: $499
XSS: $299

Here the XSS would be quite desirable based on price alone.

Or I could say

PS5: $699
PS5 Digital: $399
XSX: $350
XSS: $199

Here the XSS would be extremely desirable and the XSX too. But that's us just throwing around silly numbers.

 

[BLAUcopter]

Well, if you think about it, this way they no longer have to make games to run on the previous gen (lowest common denominator) machines which would and appears to be (see halo) impacting series X exclusives.

The little diskless 1440p machine might be a godsend for series x gamers over time, and we could finally leave that old xbone in the past where it belongs.

 

[teezzy]

If it's designed to run games at 1440p, that's a nice bit of downsampling for 1080p tv sets, without going overboard.

No disc drive seems a bit of a weird choice though. The budget conscious customers this is aimed at will be the same ones buying games on sale in supermarkets or second hand.

I know we're moving steadily to more and more digital sales, but I'm not sure this is going to be a great selling point to the budget constrained.

That might be exactly what they're looking to prevent. Sell you the cheaper console, then force you to buy games digitally from their store or sub to GP to keep your money within the ecosystem.

I mean, GamePass's sub model is about to be huge for the industry inevitably. How many lower income folk currently prefer Netflix over buying a second DVD copy of Alvin and the Chipmunks at their local Walgreen's? A lot.

If they price this thing right and market it as a next gen machine, itll do very well.

 

[Malte]

Well, if you think about it, this way they no longer have to make games to run on the previous gen (lowest common denominator) machines which would and appears to be (see halo) impacting series X exclusives.

The little diskless 1440p machine might be a godsend for series x gamers over time, and we could finally leave that old xbone in the past where it belongs.

Wouldn't the lowest common denominator for XBox games either be the XBox One (that is if Microsoft plans to release games on this platform in the long run), or the PC? Now calling the PC the lowest common denominator here may feel strange, but in some regards this is true. Not all PC users have their games run on SSDs or current-gen hardware, forcing game developers need to account for that.

 

[Lysandros]

Is there any info on ram bandwidth and ssd speed?

 

[MrFunSocks]

So people would buy the XSS, what would happen to the XBX? lol

That has already been discontinued....

 

[ultrazilla]

Xbox Series X and Playstation 5 disc versions-$600

Xbox Series S($400) and PS5 digital version-$450

 

[DarkMage619]

MS needs to match the price of the PS5 DE and the XSX. If they can do that the price of the rest of the consoles matters little.

 

[Jaybe]

People here listing price guesses by model seem to forget the X1S, PS4, and PS4 Pro aren't going anywhere. The XSS is DOA. For the price conscious consumer that has held back this long, they will go with the X1S or the PS4. People wanting the cheapest access to Xbox games and Game Pass will pick the X1S. Sony isn't going to forget the PS4 is a low price entry for consumers to join their ecosystem either.

 

[HE1NZ]

360 and OG games are only those available on XO right?

 

[Bogroll]

Will the XSS load considerably faster assuming its the same ssd as XSX 1080p/1440p textures etc v 1800p-4k ?

 

[EliTheIceMan]

What do you agree with?

$299 being the sweet spot for an underpowered nextgen console PS5 DE at 399$ is a steal vs 299$xss imo not facts people my opinion

 

[Sony]

Xbox Series X and Playstation 5 disc versions-$600

Xbox Series S($400) and PS5 digital version-$450

My predicion:

Xbox One S: 149-199
Xbox Series S: 349-399
Xbox Series X: 549-599

PS5: 599-649
PS5 DE: 549-599

 

[Knightime_X]

I still dont see how this wont hinder series x games after halo infinite disaster.

Does it hinder pc games?

 

[Ascend]

XSS = $299
XSX = $499
PS5D = $399
PS5 = $499

 

[Sir Vilhelm]

Even Microsoft disagrees with this, considering they've chosen to discontinue the Xbox One S All-Digital, which has only been out for little over a year.

Hardly the reason they stopped manufacturing that console but

 

[Hydroxy]

Lack of disc drive is a deal breaker.

 

[GamerEDM]

So people would buy the XSS, what would happen to the XBX? lol

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