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[Big Shirtless Ron]

I'm still in shock and awe that people think DMC3 is a better game than Ninja Gaiden :lol .

What? Is there an unwritten rule that says you're not allowed to? Not that I think it is, but still.

 

[duckroll]

Look, everyone bashing DoA is being really hypocritical. It has TITS and ASS, tons of female characters, a shitload of costumes and awesome nonsensical pre-fight dialogue. I don't know why anyone would play silly fighting games for any other reasons than those? :lol

 

[Zaptruder]

Look, everyone bashing DoA is being really hypocritical. It has TITS and ASS, tons of female characters, a shitload of costumes and awesome nonsensical pre-fight dialogue. I don't know why anyone would play silly fighting games for any other reasons than those? :lol

I should point you to a game called Battle Raper. Google it; if that's what you enjoy from fighting games, then that game is the fufillment of your fantasy. Or PM me for a link to it, but only if you're duckroll.

 

[capslock]

I have been playing DMC3 for the last week or so and I just finished Mission 7, and I have to admit that the game IS hard.


But you know what, that's fine, although I have died a bunch of times, once I really sat down and thought a little bit about what I was doing wrong I was able to figure out how to get through the mission or beat that pesky boss. At no point during the game did I throw the controller down and swore not to play it again. I also played and finished Ninja Gaiden and loved it, although in retrospect NG seems a bit easy now compared to DMC3. It's nice to play a game that gives you sense of accomplishment for a change once you complete a level or beat a boss, lately games have been getting way too easy.

 

[Zaptruder]

You guys make all this fancy talk of linking combos and shit but still fail to remember that it amounts to rapidly mashing triangle and X , fine you can throw in a weapon switch here and there. I was capable while playing of getting A's and S's during fights with enemies when I still had the difficulty on normal but it'd wear out my wrists in about 10 minutes so when I got the next enemies I simply couldn't keep up. I will admit killing that first enemy with an A and mantaining an S throughout the remainder of a fight is where this games entertainment lies I 'm just no longer physically capable of keeping up with it. Even the first game come to think of it had this problem I could never play more then 1 stage every 2 days or so becuase I'd get awful carpal tunnel and thumb pain. Sure it's my own perogitive to want to mash X to fire my guns instead of holding it down and that's the leading cuase but still...

If mashing was the only way you could find success playing the game, then you deserve all the thumb and wrist pain in the world.

Others have found success playing with quick wits, reaction and strategy, without wearing out their wrists.

 

[duckroll]

I should point you to a game called Battle Raper. Google it; if that's what you enjoy from fighting games, then that game is the fufillment of your fantasy. Or PM me for a link to it, but only if you're duckroll.

I've played it, but it doesn't have the same intense experience that Itagaki brings to his games! Battle Raper feels cheap and slutty while DoA is like a professional model shoot because Itagaki treats the characters like his own daughters! :lol

 

[anotheriori]

You say that, but Soul Calibur 2 also caters to the casual crowd, without compromising the hardcore elements.

It's just a deep game that's easily accessible and it gets deeper.

Tekken also caters to the casual crowd to an extent, so again, DOA loses out heavily when you compare it to what it doesn't have.

More often then not adding any kind of depth in a fighting game is adding complexity. I would probably say that SC2/T5 is more complex then DOA no guard impacts, or low parrying or just frames. There's a counter, throw and attack. Personally i'd like them to remove the auto counter damage by letting you do your own combo.

 

[WHOAguitarninja]

You guys make all this fancy talk of linking combos and shit but still fail to remember that it amounts to rapidly mashing triangle and X , fine you can throw in a weapon switch here and there. I was capable while playing of getting A's and S's during fights with enemies when I still had the difficulty on normal but it'd wear out my wrists in about 10 minutes so when I got the next enemies I simply couldn't keep up. I will admit killing that first enemy with an A and mantaining an S throughout the remainder of a fight is where this games entertainment lies I 'm just no longer physically capable of keeping up with it. Even the first game come to think of it had this problem I could never play more then 1 stage every 2 days or so becuase I'd get awful carpal tunnel and thumb pain. Sure it's my own perogitive to want to mash X to fire my guns instead of holding it down and that's the leading cuase but still...

First of all, I'm going to assume you mean the Cool! Awesome! and Stylish things that come up when you're in a combo when you refer to S and A class. And class is determined at the end of the level. You don't get an A class on an enemy or group of enemies, you get style points from keeping a combo going. That contributes to your class at the end of a level.

Second...if you have the option to hold X, you're not playing on normal, you're playing on easy.

Third...it's not X, it's square, but I'll let that slide.

Fourth, button mashing is not the act of pressing a button. It's the act of randomly pushing buttons. I guarantee you, if you're saying that you were button mashing and got good combos that way, you're full of shit. Or playing on easy...which we've already discussed.

You're right that doing a combo involves the pushing of buttons. Guess what...it's the same way in Ninja Gaiden. Ninja Gaiden pre-bakes all your combos into the game for you. This is fine, and theres nothing wrong with this, but it's inherently somewhat limiting. DMC3 requires you to actually create your own combos through experimentation and actual knowledge of the way the different weapons work and work with each other. This is essential to being able to play well.

As far as your claims of the game being somehow tiring...I have no idea where that is coming from. You really don't need to push the shoot button all that fast to fire at top speed. I don't know why you would need to push the physical or special buttons very fast ever. The game is all about timing, and observation. It's almost zen like in a way...you need to know when an enemy is about to hit you before it actually really registers in your brain that it's about to happen. None of the enemies attack all that terribly fast, so this really isn't THAT hard to do. And you need to be able to time your attacks. If you actually time things properly, you really don't have to push buttons all that fast. No faster than in ninja gaiden.

So we're back to the same place. Your criticisms of the game simply come from the fact that you don't know how to play it.

I'm still in shock and awe that people think DMC3 is a better game than Ninja Gaiden .

I'll admit that DoA isn't nearly as good as VF4 if you're really into fighters. But I don't really see how Tekken or SC are so much better.

I'll only say this: DMC3's greatness is not quite as easy to see as Ninja Gaiden's at first glance, but it is asbolutely, beyond question its equal, and in many ways it's superior. This becomes apparent with time and experience.

This is coming from someone who, prior to DMC3, would've told you that NG had the most finely crafted gameplay this gen. It now sits in the #2 slot. I should add however, that if it weren't for NG, I doubt DMC3 would've been as good as it is.

About DoA, as I mentioned in a previous post, there are aspects of the game that are just fundamentally broken that really have no reason to be. Look back to my previous post for a couple examples.

 

[Zaptruder]

I've played it, but it doesn't have the same intense experience that Itagaki brings to his games! Battle Raper feels cheap and slutty while DoA is like a professional model shoot because Itagaki treats the characters like his own daughters! :lol

Oh, so there's more to fighting games then just tits and ass and costumes?

Regardless, SC3 will have all that and more... so you just can't win with DOA.

 

[jett]

I'll admit that DoA isn't nearly as good as VF4 if you're really into fighters. But I don't really see how Tekken or SC are so much better.

:lol "nearly as good"? It's nowhere near, fanboi.

 

[Zaptruder]

More often then not adding any kind of depth in a fighting game is adding complexity. I would probably say that SC2/T5 is more complex then DOA no guard impacts, or low parrying or just frames. There's a counter, throw and attack. Personally i'd like them to remove the auto counter damage by letting you do your own combo.

The catch is, although it has that stuff, two casual players don't need to know it to enjoy the game.

But two hardcore players can exploit all that and also enjoy the game.

 

[capslock]

I found that changing the controls to the following made an enormous difference in DMC3:


Lock-on to L3, and Change Target to R1, basically switching the original configuration.


What this meant for me was that by simply pressing down on the left analog I could lock on to enemies, making shooting much easier since my right index no longer had to be planted on R1, sword moves like Stinger and High Time were also a lot more intuitive and easier to pull off.


Something to try if you're having trouble.

 

[WHOAguitarninja]

:lol "nearly as good"? It's nowhere near, fanboi.

Thats what he said...

 

[duckroll]

Oh, so there's more to fighting games then just tits and ass and costumes?

Regardless, SC3 will have all that and more... so you just can't win with DOA.

I don't know, I'll like to have proof that SC3 will feature more costumes, more multi-tier breakable stages, more female characters, and more nudity in FMVs than DoA4 will have. Any takers? I'm willing to be converted!

 

[anotheriori]

The catch is, although it has that stuff, two casual players don't need to know it to enjoy the game.

But two hardcore players can exploit all that and also enjoy the game.

but that immediately puts the newcomers at a disadvantage, which obviously makes sense because of experience. A big problem with fighting games like these is that getting more exposure is difficult when the task of learning to play becomes daunting. Like VF4 sure some casual will see and be impressed but find it very difficult to play i dont' really know how to play sc2 but doa is simpler in that reguard that when you mash a sequence of buttons randomly doesn't appear to execute different sets of moves alot of the times, atleast it seems like that.

I mean why is the reason doa and mk are somewhat popular? it dumbs down the combat to peon level probably..

 

[Zaptruder]

I don't know, I'll like to have proof that SC3 will feature more costumes, more multi-tier breakable stages, more female characters, and more nudity in FMVs than DoA4 will have. Any takers? I'm willing to be converted!

AnotherIori; if you put 2 like level players (i.e. casual players) together, then their experience of SC is going to be pretty good. That can't necessarily be said about DOA; if you put 2 high level players together, they'll likely end up playing another game!

And duck, you'll be able to make your own characters in SC.

The only part I'll concede is that, Hitomi > most fighting game females.

 

[WHOAguitarninja]

I mean why is the reason doa and mk are somewhat popular? it dumbs down the combat to peon level probably..

(o)(o)

and

...^^^^^\
..( x )
../ /
...\__ |
...(__ |
........| |
....... ^^^
.........o o
........o o o
........o o

Respectively.

EDIT - This is more trouble than it's worth...the second one is supposed to be a severed head.

 

[Pachinko]

Idono, I'm not outright going to give up on devil may cry 3. Every time I die in it though I get a sort of mental loss , instead of blaming myself and wanting to jump back in I just go and use the internet or play an easier game.

Also if morbidaza paid a bit more attention the rantings that he seems to enjoy dissecting so much , I'd admitted to playing on easy in my first post. I started the game in normal though, got up to stage 4. When I say S rank I am in fact only refering to the word Stlyish used to describe your combos.

I have to say though that a game with apparent hidden depth and or enjoyment should atleast give me some sort of tutorial to figure out the way to play it if I'm doing it all wrong, I didnt' need one in Ninja Gaiden becuase yes, it had canned situation based combos. I'm sure DMC3 gets basically the same thing you just have to figure them out yourself.

 

[Bebpo]

Bah, the DMC3 and NG fight is stupid.

Both games play pretty differently and both have their strengths and weaknesses. They are the two best action titles this generation by far and are both 9.5/10 quality games.

NG = DMC3 >> Shinobi >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everything else this gen in terms of action games.

 

[duckroll]

And duck, you'll be able to make your own characters in SC.

Yeah I know, I'm actually somewhat looking forward to that. Hopefully it's actually something deep and I can create a cool characters that play well, but knowing it's from Namco I'm somewhat wary that it might end up half-assed.

The only part I'll concede is that, Hitomi > most fighting game females.

Yay! Hitomi for life! She should guest-star in SC3 with a baseball bat as a weapon and wear a schoolgirl outfit. It'll be like Rival Schools x DoA x SC! Perfection!

 

[WHOAguitarninja]

Also if morbidaza paid a bit more attention the rantings that he seems to enjoy dissecting so much , I'd admitted to playing on easy in my first post. I started the game in normal though, got up to stage 4. When I say S rank I am in fact only refering to the word Stlyish used to describe your combos.

You said the game was too hard even on easy. I did not interpret that as you playing the game on easy, perhaps I should have though.

I have to say though that a game with apparent hidden depth and or enjoyment should atleast give me some sort of tutorial to figure out the way to play it if I'm doing it all wrong, I didnt' need one in Ninja Gaiden becuase yes, it had canned situation based combos. I'm sure DMC3 gets basically the same thing you just have to figure them out yourself.

I can sortof agree with the first part, although it's tough to have a tutorial on how to observe multiple enemies at a time though. The game really just is all about experimentation, though. Thats where the depth comes in...pushing the combat engine to do things it doesn't specifically tell you that you can do. That's part of the fun. It would take alot of the fun factor away if they straight up told you "when equipped with rebellion and angy&rudra, you can susped an opponent in the air with physical attacks by first knocking them up into the air, and then switching between the two weapons every 2 hits and using consistent physical attacks with rebellion and special attacks with agni&rudra. Note: This is only possible in swordmaster style". It's far more rewarding to figure that out for yourself.

I can't really agree that DMC combos come down to canned combos once you "figure them out" because theres really a near infinite number of combos to figure out once you realise that you create the combos in order to accomplish something that you want to accomplish. My previous example(the one with rebellion and agni&rudra) came from me trying to figure out a way to suspend an enemy in the air with physical attacks. I knew I could do it with E&R, but that wasn't very damaging and left me in harms way on the ground. Similarly with the same combination you can keep an infinitely long combo going, as well as various other things that aren't coming to mind at the moment. It's not really a matter of "oh..wow, with this button combo and this weapon I can do this X thing." The combos come from "well...I want to do X, so I know that I can do Y and Z with such and such weapons...if I put the two together, maybe I can change between the two and do X". Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesnt. Usually there is a way to do what you want to do though, and it's a matter of you building up a way to do that.

Bah, the DMC3 and NG fight is stupid.

Both games play pretty differently and both have their strengths and weaknesses. They are the two best action titles this generation by far and are both 9.5/10 quality games.

NG = DMC3 >> Shinobi >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everything else this gen in terms of action games.

This I agree with pretty much entirely. DMC3 and NG are both absolutely phenomenal games in pretty much every way that counts in an action game, and quality wise they are so close that neither is really a clear victor overall. Each one does some things better than the other, and they are, as you said, so vastly different that which you prefer really comes down to personal preference. They do stand head and shoulders above every other action game this gen, God of War included.

I think the whole reason this argument started was because Pachinko said a few things about DMC3 that I felt simply weren't true.

And to Pachinko, sorry if I came off a bit agressive. I interpreted your original post as simply being an outright bash of DMC3, which got me a bit angry (I tend to get angry rather easily at 2 in the morning). Going back to your original post, I can give you some tips on the 3 trials room. It's quite easy once you know what to do. I think you only even have to do 2 of them. If you do all 3 you get (in my opinion) the most useless gun in the game(I haven't bothered to play with it much though, so take that as you will). Send me a PM if you want any help on that one. You really should give DMC3 another shot as given time and a little bit of effort the game absolutely maddeningly fun.

 

[anotheriori]

(o)(o)

and

...^^^^^\
..( x )
../ /
...\__ |
...(__ |
........| |
....... ^^^
.........o o
........o o o
........o o

Respectively.

EDIT - This is more trouble than it's worth...the second one is supposed to be a severed head.

lol i'll concede winnar, btw the only reason (character i use) is hitomi so it is the (o)(o)

 

[Zaptruder]

Yay! Hitomi for life! She should guest-star in SC3 with a baseball bat as a weapon and wear a schoolgirl outfit. It'll be like Rival Schools x DoA x SC! Perfection!

*blows load*

 

[C- Warrior]

Haha, this thread is da great.

Few things to say:

1) Sly, I'm still a Ninja Gaiden fanboy. But I'll admit defeat, DMC3 is better than Ninja Gaiden. BUT...BUT, Ninja Gaiden still shits over God of Button Mash :lol :lol

2) Panhicko, you'r an idiot. DMC3 is not a button masher. It's extremely varied, fast, and twitch based. Have you ever thought of this... The reason you think the game is soooo hard, so hard as in your wrists hurt type of hard is BECAUSE you are button mashing? Have you ever thought about that? Have you ever waited and thought, "wait, hmmm, if I take advantage of the style system, the 90+ combos (all manual might I add, none of that Ninja Gaiden XYXY XYYXXYX XYYXXYXYXY stuff) you'd realize that DMC3 is extremely balanced. Sure, bosses are hard, enemies are ruthless, and the levels are long. But Dante is a fuckin war machine.

3) Dead or Alive sucks....

4) see number 3

5) For finality:

DMC3>>Ninja Gaiden>>DMC1>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>God of Casual Shit

So thank you, good day. I'm done with this thread. And fuck you weaksauce gamers. Learn to play a challenging game for once.

 

[SomeDude]

He's annoying.

 

[OpinionatedCyborg]

You guys make all this fancy talk of linking combos and shit but still fail to remember that it amounts to rapidly mashing triangle and X , fine you can throw in a weapon switch here and there. I was capable while playing of getting A's and S's during fights with enemies when I still had the difficulty on normal but it'd wear out my wrists in about 10 minutes so when I got the next enemies I simply couldn't keep up. I will admit killing that first enemy with an A and mantaining an S throughout the remainder of a fight is where this games entertainment lies I 'm just no longer physically capable of keeping up with it. Even the first game come to think of it had this problem I could never play more then 1 stage every 2 days or so becuase I'd get awful carpal tunnel and thumb pain. Sure it's my own perogitive to want to mash X to fire my guns instead of holding it down and that's the leading cuase but still...

One Letter: Y. Or more accurately, A + Y + ->

 

[Shouta]

If you check out some of the extra vids found after you beat DMC3, you can see some of the much more elaborate and controlled combos by people have that have played the game for quite awhile. They're quite a sihgt. One of my favorite tricks involving Trickster style was baiting an enemy near a wall, launching them up and landing a few hits, land on the ground again, and wall run to jump off and rain shots down on them from Ebony and ivory. Very look looking.

This whole custom combo spiel was one of my favorite things about DMC2's second character (I can't remember her name). You could do massive Devil Trigger Cancel Combos that basically killed larger enemies in one string of death if done properly, was such an awesome thing to do in that game.

 

[JavyOO7]

I did'nt like Ninja Gaiden.

I prefer Shinobi way better, actually.

 

[sly]

Haha, this thread is da great.

Few things to say:

1) Sly, I'm still a Ninja Gaiden fanboy. But I'll admit defeat, DMC3 is better than Ninja Gaiden. BUT...BUT, Ninja Gaiden still shits over God of Button Mash :lol :lol

:lol

2) Panhicko, you'r an idiot. DMC3 is not a button masher. It's extremely varied, fast, and twitch based. Have you ever thought of this... The reason you think the game is soooo hard, so hard as in your wrists hurt type of hard is BECAUSE you are button mashing? Have you ever thought about that? Have you ever waited and thought, "wait, hmmm, if I take advantage of the style system, the 90+ combos (all manual might I add, none of that Ninja Gaiden XYXY XYYXXYX XYYXXYXYXY stuff) you'd realize that DMC3 is extremely balanced. Sure, bosses are hard, enemies are ruthless, and the levels are long. But Dante is a fuckin war machine

Quoted for truth. I can't see how he can call DMC3 a button masher, I guess he's mashing out of frustration(and it still doesn't work for him :lol)

I can't believe he's playing easy and still complaining. Weaksauce.

You said the game was too hard even on easy. I did not interpret that as you playing the game on easy, perhaps I should have though.

I can sortof agree with the first part, although it's tough to have a tutorial on how to observe multiple enemies at a time though. The game really just is all about experimentation, though. Thats where the depth comes in...pushing the combat engine to do things it doesn't specifically tell you that you can do. That's part of the fun. It would take alot of the fun factor away if they straight up told you "when equipped with rebellion and angy&rudra, you can susped an opponent in the air with physical attacks by first knocking them up into the air, and then switching between the two weapons every 2 hits and using consistent physical attacks with rebellion and special attacks with agni&rudra. Note: This is only possible in swordmaster style". It's far more rewarding to figure that out for yourself.

I can't really agree that DMC combos come down to canned combos once you "figure them out" because theres really a near infinite number of combos to figure out once you realise that you create the combos in order to accomplish something that you want to accomplish. My previous example(the one with rebellion and agni&rudra) came from me trying to figure out a way to suspend an enemy in the air with physical attacks. I knew I could do it with E&R, but that wasn't very damaging and left me in harms way on the ground. Similarly with the same combination you can keep an infinitely long combo going, as well as various other things that aren't coming to mind at the moment. It's not really a matter of "oh..wow, with this button combo and this weapon I can do this X thing." The combos come from "well...I want to do X, so I know that I can do Y and Z with such and such weapons...if I put the two together, maybe I can change between the two and do X". Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesnt. Usually there is a way to do what you want to do though, and it's a matter of you building up a way to do that.


Both games play pretty differently and both have their strengths and weaknesses. They are the two best action titles this generation by far and are both 9.5/10 quality games.

NG = DMC3 >> Shinobi >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everything else this gen in terms of action games.


This I agree with pretty much entirely. DMC3 and NG are both absolutely phenomenal games in pretty much every way that counts in an action game, and quality wise they are so close that neither is really a clear victor overall. Each one does some things better than the other, and they are, as you said, so vastly different that which you prefer really comes down to personal preference. They do stand head and shoulders above every other action game this gen, God of War included.

I think the whole reason this argument started was because Pachinko said a few things about DMC3 that I felt simply weren't true.

And to Pachinko, sorry if I came off a bit agressive. I interpreted your original post as simply being an outright bash of DMC3, which got me a bit angry (I tend to get angry rather easily at 2 in the morning). Going back to your original post, I can give you some tips on the 3 trials room. It's quite easy once you know what to do. I think you only even have to do 2 of them. If you do all 3 you get (in my opinion) the most useless gun in the game(I haven't bothered to play with it much though, so take that as you will). Send me a PM if you want any help on that one. You really should give DMC3 another shot as given time and a little bit of effort the game absolutely maddeningly fun.

Excellent post Morbidaza! I couldn't have said it any better

Spoiler

Except for the NG = DMC3 part, we both know DMC3 is better :lol

 

[C- Warrior]

:lol



Quoted for truth. I can't see how he can call DMC3 a button masher, I guess he's mashing out of frustration(and it still doesn't work for him :lol)

I can't believe he's playing easy and still complaining. Weaksauce.



Excellent post Morbidaza! I couldn't have said it any better ..Except for the NG = DMC3 part, we both know DMC3 is better

Careful now Sly, anymore declrative statements like that we're gonna have to make a DMC3 versus NG thread to seal the deal for best action game of all time.

Although I do agree that DMC3 is better than Ninja Gaiden.

...but just wait for the xbox 360, bitches...itagaki will own you!

 

[IJoel]

Careful now Sly, anymore declrative statements like that we're gonna have to make a DMC3 versus NG thread to seal the deal for best action game of all time.

Although I do agree that DMC3 is better than Ninja Gaiden.

...but just wait for the xbox 360, bitches...itagaki will own you!

And I disagree. Ryu owns that pansy Dante.

 

[Monk]

I hope itagaki makes a decent camera this time. If not for that I might even play the damn game*


*I generally don't play action games.

 

[IJoel]

I hope itagaki makes a decent camera this time. If not for that I might even play the damn game*


*I generally don't play action games.

The camera is fine. Itagaki even included the option to control the camera with the right stick in one of the hurricane packs. NG Black will include that, in case you didn't have a chance to download it.

 

[Zaptruder]

The camera is fine. Itagaki even included the option to control the camera with the right stick in one of the hurricane packs. NG Black will include that, in case you didn't have a chance to download it.

only a very miniscule amount of NG players have been able to play with the improved camera.

NG black better be a better game, it's gonna be a while till anyone gets it.

As for Ryu > Dante?

I think you're only hating coz you could never even approach the kind of cool he has (ok, so his character is over the top, I don't see how that equates to pansy?)

 

[jet1911]

Ninjas > half white hair demons

 

[Monk]

The camera is fine. Itagaki even included the option to control the camera with the right stick in one of the hurricane packs. NG Black will include that, in case you didn't have a chance to download it.

I don't have XBL , it will cause too much trouble with my family.

 

[DarkGiygas]

The only fighter that's better than DoA is VF4. I don't see how that's "most" of the competition. Tekken is and always will be shit.

I fear for the human race.