What's insulting? I sincerely doubt she's played most of the games in this second video, meaning she probably didn't use capture equipment.
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Tropes Vs. Women Episode 2 - Damsels In Distress Part [spoiler warning]
- Thread starter Mesoian
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What's insulting? I sincerely doubt she's played most of the games in this second video, meaning she probably didn't use capture equipment.
Well that's the point right? Not to have a discussion with her? The point is to put all the "evidence" on the table so we can come together and discuss what makes sense, what doesn't, if it'll ever change, and how it can change for the better. Because THAT'S the point of these videos, to build discussions whether you agree or not. Think she's full of shit? Say why, articulate it, don't just say "LOL FEMINISMS DUMB! WHAT A DUMB BITCH", which is what happens when youtube comments are on.
The point is that we're talking about this stuff at all, because we normally don't. Ever.
You do realize she has 7 or 8 people working with her right?
You do know how stuff like this is made, don't you? It's not just her.
That's not how it works. I don't know why you think that's how it works, but it's not.
DragonSworne
Banned
That's exactly what I said. Feminism can't be the subject of someone's work. It's merely a point of view, which a poster early objected to.
So people can't claim that feminism can be held to rigor and analysis when feminism itself is just a point of view. It will just be a trivial analysis.
A Link to the Past
Banned
1. The argument was that TWW abandoned tropes. I responded by pointing out that it didn't because in the end, Tetra becomes the exact same character Zelda always is - in fact, she's weaker as Zelda than she was in OoT. It's a step backwards.
Say these words, please, if you believe in your argument:
Tetra is just as capable as Aragorn to make these major life and personality decisions.
Further, if you are to, please explain the evidence that even remotely suggests that.
2. She lost the Zelda exterior, and was in the game for five minutes before she fell into the DiD trope so quickly and handily. Yeah, Tetra's back alright.
Steve Youngblood
Member
There's no mechanism within Kickstarter for capping contributions or issuing refunds.
Sure, most youtube comments are bad. But not every single one of them.
Why can't she just enable comments and ignore them personally?
Would troll comments hurt her video in some way or another? I don't think so.
Fine, then criticize her because her work doesn't reflect the $26000, but that's it. I agree that more money could help fund the project, but that's her call, not ours. What she wants to do with the rest is up to her entirely. It doesn't make her selfish, doesn't make her less capable, doesn't tell anything other than the fact that she took money she didn't ask for, but people gave it to her anyway.
Yes it is, and you won't be able to refute it.
two can play this game
terribletwo
Member
Great Video. I thought she should have started here rather than way back in the first video, as more recent games are more relevant to the topic IMO. But feels like she's hitting a stride now, can't wait for the next one
Completely disagree.
Link is weaker too. He's a scared kid who has to sneak around for the first time ever in the series.
Right.
Optimus Lime
(L3) + (R3) | Spartan rage activated
I asked you before, and you didn't reply.
You're not an academic, are you? Your misunderstanding of how analytical frames operate is telling.
partyphone
Banned
What? You can't be more wrong.
I'm glad we have these threads to let us know who the crazy misogynists are.
Delusibeta
Banned
Seven or eight? I take back the disclaimer of my previous post, Extra Credits' output makes an absolute mockery out of FremFreq's quantity of videos released.
DragonSworne
Banned
I was an academic. Graduated from a four year university in 2007.
Now THAT i'll agree with. Scheduling wise, even with just two videos out, this project is a travesty. Why this is being done linerally and not in blocks makes no sense to me, it means that there can be no defined release dates. If she had a publisher, she probably would have been cited or sued by now.
A Link to the Past
Banned
Tetra is stronger than Zelda in OoT because she's a pirate. She went from being more capable than OoT Zelda, to being less so.
Link went from being weaker than OoT Link, to the same strength. One took a step backwards, one took a step forward.
Optimus Lime
(L3) + (R3) | Spartan rage activated
No, no. You misunderstand. I didn't ask you if you were a student.
I asked you if you were an academic. You don't really need me to explain the difference between those two things, do you?
oneils
Member
Fair enough. Too many discussions going on at once for me.
It is a point of view, but you seem to dismiss it very easily. Politics is politics. But I don't think feminism or feminist theory is something that can be so easily dismissed. Unless, that is, you don't actually agree with its stated goals/outcomes/whatever.
A Link to the Past
Banned
So your opinion is that Tetra is not defined by her personality, but her appearance.
Of course your stance is that women are better seen and not heard.
By the way, I'm confused why you seem so intent to not utter the words that would confirm your stance to be that Tetra is capable of making the decisions to change her personality as much as Aragorn.
So did this team play a bunch of games and go through a writing process and how to present stuff? Do they use capture equipment and record moments in games that get their assertion across?
I have no clue how she produces this series, a smaller scope would definitely help contextually and debate wise.
I actually think WW Link is much stronger than OoT Link.
OoT Link is just a mindless drone, WW Link is a kid with feelings. It takes real strength of character / courage to do what he does.
How is she weaker? She was never strong enough to go head to head with Ganon by herself. That's why she was hiding her identity.
We're so deep into small details that you'd need a microscope to find the sexism in this game.
Gutsy Frog
Banned
I wasn't accusing you of that, I was attempting to explain why many people don't call her out on the stuff you pointed out. They want to distance themselves from the people who spammed 'edgy' bullshit so they don't criticize her at all, when her videos are full of flawed points.
TheBaronOfNA
Banned
And she is not doing a great doing presenting the evidence or her point. Is like a lawyer being snarky and condescending with the jury
Eh... I didn't say that... like at all.
And is not doing a great job keeping it alive if the reaction abbove is some sort of sign. (no offense)
OverBlood 3
Banned
How meta.
I really do think she goes on too much about the 'definitions' of things, we get it we understand what the tropes are we don't need 20 examples of it.
TryHardShounen
Banned
Is this GAF's official "white knight" thread?
Didn't find this episode as good as the first one. A lot of the examples were shitty games with obvious reliance on the trope. And I thought the example of Borderlands 2 made no sense given you can be a female character in that game.
Still, this is good stuff. Makes me uncomfortable, which is good.
Still, this is good stuff. Makes me uncomfortable, which is good.
A Link to the Past
Banned
Ganondorf did not have the Triforce in TWW.
FACT: TWW Zelda goes against OoT Ganondorf. TWW Zelda instantly captured.
OoT Zelda goes against TWW Ganondorf. Not instantly captured. OoT Ganondorf uses magic to capture her, while TWW Zelda is captured w/ brute force.
DragonSworne
Banned
I would like to hear your definition of an academic. Since students are generally included in the noun.
Gold_Loot
Member
ICO-
"An easy way for writers to trigger an emotional reaction in male players" *shuts the video off right here* Way to miss the whole point of that game.
I think I had about enough of this- this-... person
Get off your high horse. You're not some female holier than thou white knight for women.
"An easy way for writers to trigger an emotional reaction in male players" *shuts the video off right here* Way to miss the whole point of that game.
I think I had about enough of this- this-... person
Get off your high horse. You're not some female holier than thou white knight for women.
I went back and edited for clarity rather than because of you, but sure, I should have said so, apologies. (The usual forum I use has a 'last edited' time stamp at the bottom of a post).
My original post was never against violence in its entirity, even the bit you quoted makes that clear, (note that I said 'lots of' and not 'all games') so I'm not sure where you get that from, or why you thought it was 'APPARENT'. Thats why I responded to you- you seemed to take 'all games' from somewhere and spin it to a bizarre conclusion when I clearly said 'lots of AAA games', which clearly isn't 'all games of all types'. That was the reason for my response, it was a qualifier you missed and went off on a tangent based on what you thought I'd said, and why I thought you got the wrong end of the stick, although the edit you point out in your post is indeed clearly another slightly different qualifier.
Anyway, Apologies again for poor ettiquette towards you, but there will be hundreds of posts in the next few hours and I wanted to make sure I didn't end up having to make the same response over and over again.
Here you are for clarity. As you said, here is my pre-edit post that you quoted. The first sentence never says 'all games'. The second sentence gives the reason I understand for its use and the last sentence adds a condition for my argument (that I thought also wasn't that clear), and I just thought you seemed to offer a knee-jerk response to the first sentence in isolation, assuming i wanted to ban all violence in all fps games, without even reading the last bit anyway. Anyway, we seem to broadly agree, so apologies again, I'll make sure I'm happy with my argument before posting in a fast-moving thread next time.
Yes. Remember that image of her sitting on the giant block of video games she bought and people rolled their eyes and scoffed and said, "No way she's going to play all of those". They were partially right. Those games were collected to form a media pool. If you're making a movie for money, you can't just go on youtube and download shit. You need your own resources to get the moments that prove your points. It takes a shit load of time, especially if you don't know everything that's going to happen, have to make notes, then go back and capture that scene again. It's one of the reasons why people hate doing video reviews on review sites; you have to parse scenes you want to show, and it's time consuming.
She didn't play all those games, she probably knew of key points she wanted to talk about, and had certain people on her pay roll play through them, then capture those points, and keep an eye out for more moments that bolster the points she's making. A lot of those clips in this video were from endings. That means someone working for her played through those games fully, if she didn't do it herself (I bet she played some of them).
Royale We. Didn't mean you were personally doing that, sorry.
No they aren't.
You have to be a white knight in order to be interested in a feminist analysis of something?
I mean, ignoring that there would be women interested (and participating) in such a thread. Because that's impossible.
Ah, I see.
A Link to the Past
Banned
Ico by itself is not sexist. The fact that every game he's made has a lot of the same elements is.
Optimus Lime
(L3) + (R3) | Spartan rage activated
No, they aren't. They're students. And, you're being completely and utterly disingenuous. You know as well as I do that you have never been a professional academic involved in postgraduate research.
What you are, however, is a person who is attempting to portray himself as an expert on things he doesn't understand. Your non-understanding of how feminist theory is applied as an analytical instrument demonstrates staggering levels of ignorance and hubris.
cicero
Member
Whatever point you were trying to make is being somewhat lost with your apparent efforts to give him the high hat.
There is no need for the condescending tone. you've pushed him enough for one thread. Either you explain to him or don't reply. Focusing on him rather than what he's saying is immature.
Delusibeta
Banned
And Extra Credits has half of the work force, two of the people on the 4 person team focus on the art, and they all have full time jobs!
As I said before, I really don't see where the time was spent, especially considering the first episode something along the lines of eight months to get released after funding. I mean, we are about four weeks away from the first anniversary of the end of the Kickstarter, and she's only finished two thirds of what she has to say about the first topic of 12. I would genuinely be concerned about the money running out, if she's going to take this long to get through this topic.
Wrestlemania
Banned
It's more like whatever the opposite of a white knight thread is. Black knight thread?
Optimus Lime
(L3) + (R3) | Spartan rage activated
I think my point is fairly obvious, friend. Read the thread.
I think that as game tech advanced, the ability to express emotion in game characters got better, making us feel that the characters are more emotional, alive, etc.
You can see in OoT that Link gets scared when the door closes behind him, looking around anxiously. Perhaps the creators always imagined Link in this way, although there's no way to prove this. Imagine LttP with a Link that can show emotion on his face... would he look scared when he's picking up his Uncle's sword?
The better way to look at the game narrative is to see what events transpire. A girl struggling when she is kidnapped versus looking helpless, sure it shows a different, perhaps stronger personality, but the point is that the girl is getting kidnapped, and this event is the catalyst for the player's quest.
It's an interesting discussion to be sure... and I think more and more modern games are starting to think differently. The sexualized character in Bayonetta is still a strong character and (end game spoiler)
she kind of gets kidnapped anyway, right?
Exploding8
Member
There's a couple games in there that I might want to play at some point in the future 
namely Dishonored and Pandora's Tower...
Guess I won't get to see this episode.
namely Dishonored and Pandora's Tower...
Guess I won't get to see this episode.
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