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Visions of Mana not coming to Game Pass, Xbox confirms
- Thread starter Thick Thighs Save Lives
- Start date
- News
Variahunter
Member
Yeah right. 20$ for a finally new episode of a renowned A-RPG series that seems to have put much more care and budget than the last remake (Trials of Mana) is absolutely right... These takes are something.
You are absolutely unable to recognize passion and care in a project, won't support japanese devs, and then proceed to whine about being cast aside when it comes to your favorite platform.
I swear you Xbots deserves to be forgotten by japanese developpers, and I seriously hope this game is the nail in the coffin for Xbox regarding japanese support, or at least Square Enix.
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VitoNotVito
Member
So no xbox players will play it?
Punished Miku
Gold Member
I just think it looks mid. I'm fine with a mid price. I haven't even started Palworld. Playing Persona 3 soon. For sure buying Dragon's Dogma 2. Likely buying Metaphor. The year is young, it's January.
Enjoy your game day 1 if you want it. I can decide what I like to buy without you badgering me. My backlog is so big that even if I did buy this on day 1, it would likely sit unplayed until 2025. SQEX needs to make more compelling stuff that I'm excited to play, or don't. Not my problem.
I buy almost all their AA games actually. This looks less compelling to me than Octopath, Live A Live, Star Ocean remake, Triangle Strategy, and on and on. This is like a C-tier game. $20 is being generous since I could skip this entirely and not care.
Kilau
Member
Gambit2483
Member
This is photoshopped, yes?....Yes??
Deerock71
Member
Most definitely. She wouldn't be so grumpy if she looked like that.
James Sawyer Ford
Member
No GamePass no Sale
Deerock71
Member
True regardless.
Variahunter
Member
Palworld = Gamepass
Persona 3 = Gamepass
Dragon's Dogma = not exactly a JRPG, it's like saying Dark Souls or Elden Ring are JRPG.
Metaphor = "likely buying"
It just shows you don't support JRPG with your money. It's an expandable genre for you. So don't act suprised if the genre keeps avoiding Xbox.
Once again, comparing Visions with these games just show how you're absolutely unable to recognize care and effort in a project. The investment and development time for Visions is much higher than those games.
Once again, your opinion is representative of Xbox players and you guys will get treated by japanese devs accordingly.
I bet Xbox had to pay to get an appearance on their show. It was a marketing operation for Xbox, giving the message that "they care about japanese games".
I also bet those shows are part of the deal that MS has done with SE. SE develops more of those games for Xbox, and in counterpart they receive a lot of money and free marketing for those titles, even if not on gamepass. So yes, MS paid for having the game developped on their platform (no doubt about that considering they previously dropped MS before) and the deal also included free marketing on their biggest shows.
yazenov
Member
My crystal balls tell me not very much.
Chukhopops
Member
Trials of Mana was actually really good and you don’t need a large budget to remake a SNES game.
I’m not sold on Visions because of the open world and combat feeling spammy and floaty but they haven’t shown anything else so far.
The rest is just your imagination of what « Xbots » buy and don’t buy, which is no concern of mine. I know which JP games I bought last year and aside from FFXVI they were all on Xbox.
Fabieter
Member
It might not be for you but to call it mid is something yes. Dude this is a passion project and you can tell from the trailers. It reads like you are just mad it isn't on gamepass after all.
Punished Miku
Gold Member
I see you're truly dedicated to your mission to prove some bullshit you are completely making up. Don't let me interrupt then. Carry on.
Any game that has to try and rely on random disgruntled internet fanatics to browbeat others into buying it from guilt or shame is probably not all that compelling. They still have like 4 months to sell me on the game, so I didn't rule it out completely. My opinion has always been consistent since I saw the direct. My interest went from 0 to about 25%. I think they'd be smart to put it on GP because the game is going to get buried under multiple other, better looking RPGs this year and GP would help promote it. I'll buy it on sale.
And honestly, this is probably the first time I've ever been lectured for not buying enough Japanese games lol. If only I could transplant my posting history into your brain. Life is funny.
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Gold Member
Yeah but you make up like 50% of the total people who fervently buy JRPGs on Xbox. Whereas if you were on PlayStation or Nintendo, you'd make up less than 1% of everyone else who does the same.
Xbox as a platform simply isn't associated with JRPGs and that's perfectly fine. It does mean you're better off buying the system(s) where those games DO come, than port-begging or screaming "anti-consumer!" when they don't come to Xbox. Not saying this of you specifically, but people who like to "represent" Xbox online and constantly do this type of thing like Jez Corden with Final Fantasy.
Sales data in NPD/Circana, UK charts, Famitsu/Media Create, Spain, France etc. charts tell a different story, especially when you start to look at the software splits.
And adding digital doesn't really change much for Xbox in those comparisons; we know in the UK for example PS5 still accounts for more of the digital software sales between the two on average (~ 37% vs 18%) when it comes to total digital software sold in that market annually.
Software sales for Xbox on average are pitiful compared to PlayStation and that's reflected in what market data we get and even from the fiscal reports of certain big 3P publishers. Game Pass wouldn't exist at least in part, if software sales were strong on the platform (particularly for 1P games at the time).
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Punished Miku
Gold Member
Well I wouldn't give up your day job if you fancy yourself a mind reader, or a detective.
The fact that I have to even prove this to you like any of this matters is embarrassing, for you. But here you go. That's my impression after seeing the game, before it was ever hinted at GP. It hasn't changed at all, almost like I'm telling the truth or something.
News - Hype - Visions of Mana Releases on Summer 2024, New Footage Revealed Xbox Direct 2024
Visions of Mana is a game of many firsts. It’s the first entirely new mainline Mana game for more than 15 years. It’s the first game to offer such sprawling 3D worlds and freedom to explore them. And – perhaps most excitingly for the readers of this blog – it’s the first Mana game to release on...
Fabieter
Member
Well I wouldn't give up your day job if you fancy yourself a mind reader, or a detective.
The fact that I have to even prove this to you like any of this matters is embarrassing, for you. But here you go. That's my impression after seeing the game, before it was ever hinted at GP. It hasn't changed at all, almost like I'm telling the truth or something.
News - Hype - Visions of Mana Releases on Summer 2024, New Footage Revealed Xbox Direct 2024
Visions of Mana is a game of many firsts. It’s the first entirely new mainline Mana game for more than 15 years. It’s the first game to offer such sprawling 3D worlds and freedom to explore them. And – perhaps most excitingly for the readers of this blog – it’s the first Mana game to release on...www.neogaf.com
It changed from looks decent to it looks mid. Never said I meant the "buy on sale part".
Punished Miku
Gold Member
Decent and mid are fairly interchangeable. Just take the L dude.
Variahunter
Member
Seiken Densetsu is my favorite ARPG series, and I love SD2 and SD3 in particular, but Trials of mana remake was just ok.
It was good given the budget constraints, for sure. SE didn't believe in the series up until they saw Trials sales exceeded by far their expectations. Hence why we have Visions now with a much higher budget.
But combat was very repetitive, AI (foes and allies) was bad, battle system wasn't deep at all, very mashy, animation were stiff, and the hit feeling was pretty poor to be honest.
Again, they did what they could given their experience and the budget constraints.
Combat in Visions already seems to have more impact, animations are reaaaally good this time, with a good emphasis on moving materials (fur, capes). The main char is swinging a big Sword and it's correctly conveyed with the slow feeling and hit stop animation. Other chars are faster like the cat samurai with its katana. Saying that Visions feels spammy but saying Trials was very good ? I mean did we play the same game ? Trials was very spammy, Idk how you can draw a line between the two given that Visions seems to already have more varied aspects to it.
The game is not open world but semi open world, with large zones interconnected between each other. Rewarding exploration will be a big focus in that game.
Not my imagination, it has been verifiable numerous times that JRPGs do not sell on Xbox, wether it's exclusive or not, on gamepass or not.
Which JRPG games did you buy last year on Xbox ?
Fabieter
Member
Well it isn't for me but if its the same for you than I stand corrected.
Variahunter
Member
Man I don't care if you buy the game or not. But don't act suprised when Xbox have way less support from japanese RPG devs than Sony, Nintendo or PC.
Punished Miku
Gold Member
I can act however I want. There's a dozen games they could put on Xbox that would all sell better than this. They could do the Pixel Remasters for one.
Skifi28
Member
This is the first time I'm hearing this argument. Who says that? All you ever her is "best deal in gaming."
Fabieter
Member
The whole pixel remastered serirs sold like 3m on 3 platforms split into 6 games. If the pixel remastered would sell somehow more on xbox than visions yea damn they would be in the right to release all games just on pc, ps and switch going forward.
Punished Miku
Gold Member
If you say so. FF is 100x bigger than Mana. People want it but SQEX overpriced it at $75. It'll make it to 10 mill once they drop the price.
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Fabieter
Member
If you split the 3m/3 platforms/6 games that means that one game in the pixel remastered series sold around 170k. Dont you think visions has a chances to top that on xbox? I fucking hope it has.
Punished Miku
Gold Member
I would guess so. Guess I am assuming too highly of Pixel Remaster, so I take the correction on that one.
Mana is just small though. How much did the last one even sell? I don't follow sales threads honestly, but it looks like it barely broke 200k in Japan on PS and Switch combined. Google says around 1 million total, but I know most sources are bunk on sales so I'll default to whatever number you can find. It's a super niche series though.
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Chukhopops
Member
I don’t deny that JRPGs are less popular on Xbox, it is what it is.
I buy the rest on Switch mostly (Atelier Series, Ys, SMT V, other non-RPGs stuff like RainCode or AI).
It’s just weird to jump into « You don’t support Japanese developers » because someone is not sold on a specific game, that’s all. It’s the kind of dumb projecting that doesn’t bring anything to the discussion.
Agee to disagree about Trials of Mana. It’s at 92% positive reviews on Steam, higher than FFVIIR for example. The only recent game with better reviews is Star Ocean 2 Remake which is also excellent.
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Gold Member
Well there are dozens of games Microsoft could put on PlayStation that would sell better than they do on Xbox, or dozens of games Nintendo could put on PlayStation & Xbox that would sell very well, etc.
Point is just because a game could sell decent on another platform in theory, doesn't mean it's the best idea to actually port it to that platform in practice. Gaming's an entertainment industry driven by creativity. Creativity is inherent to identity, that extends to brands as well. And certain 3P brands may have identity with other larger brands, so they share in it together. That identity helps foster benefits between those involved and also helps promote sales, recognition, and the such for involved brands.
I also find the idea that Japanese game support on Xbox is bad ridiculous when outside of some mainline Final Fantasy games, a few random 3P titles and Nintendo & Sony's own Japanese 1P titles, Xbox gets like 90% of the same Japanese 3P support PlayStation has nowadays. Generations ago it was lucky to get 20%, but people like Jez Corden would make you think it's still 2004 with Xbox Japanese support compared to PlayStation, the way he goes on about it endlessly.
When again, it generally just boils down to some mainline Final Fantasy games. But I think in the case of people like him it boils down to a more nefarious idea, that PlayStation isn't allowed to have any unique, or big Japanese 3P exclusives because they feel Xbox is "owed" parity on those titles simply for existing this long as a brand and not selling as many units. And they hide behind the "pro-consumer" sentiment to push this idea.
I never bought into it because I knew what it was really about especially since it coincided heavily with propaganda in the ABK trail to paint Sony as conspiring with Japan to lock out Japanese 3P from Xbox (something that has never been the case).
Well I can agree to a point that it is weird a thing to say. However, it's also based in some truth, because we have market analytics and sales data to support claims that on average, such and such genre maybe just isn't that appealing to a given console demographic.
Again, you're the exception when it comes to Xbox owners and JRPGs, but it also means you're in the minority. There simply aren't anywhere near enough people like you on Xbox to make the platform a priority for every single JRPG-style game that comes out.
Although again, if you look at it a certain way, Xbox gets virtually all the JRPGs PlayStation gets these days aside new mainline FF titles and one-off stuff like Granblue Fantasy: Relink (that might be a Chinese or Korean game tho not Japanese). Tho from what I understand, Microsoft has been paying for a lot of those ports, something they actually did for FF XIII back in the 360 days.
Topher
Gold Member
They can't make up their mind.
No one will buy the game because it's not on GamePass and that's all they play. But no one subs to GamePass because it's not worth it.
In this case, few will buy the game on Xbox simply because historically these games rarely do well on Xbox. But yes, this game would probably have received a lot more traction had it been on Game Pass. Applying that logic to the entirety of Xbox games doesn't make sense as others have pointed out, Game Pass isn't the dominant method of obtaining games on the platform. Not sure what is controversial about making that statement about this game though.
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Punished Miku
Gold Member
I don't really have any complaints about Japanese games on Xbox aside from SQEX. It's gotten better recently. I don't feel I'm owed games. I feel SQEX is hurting themselves the more they limit their growth. They're going to get left behind while Sega and Capcom court an audience of tens of millions. SQEX used to sell 20% of their games on Xbox. I honestly can't think of a single business that wouldn't see a +20% as a gigantic opportunity to add to their business. Sony could buy SQEX and I wouldn't feel owed anything. The company can do what they like, and I'm free to call their strategy archaic and dated if I want.
I actually didn't complain at all. Virtually no Xbox owners in this thread did. I just said bummer, I'll pick this up on sale then.
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Gold Member
Are you sure about that 20%, and was it for all SE games? Or just some of the FF games when they came to Xbox Day 1 or titles like the Tomb Raider games? Even then I dunno if the 20% held up for the duration of the game's availability, or if it was just the launch period/first couple months.
The way I see it, given how XBO cratered the Xbox brand pretty hard last gen, a lot of what SE audience that was being built on Xbox during the 360 era (particularly with Final Fantasy), simply went to PlayStation when those games stopped coming to Xbox. Others went back to Nintendo and some went to PC/Steam. I'd reckon not very many stayed exclusively with Xbox after 2016.
Also FWIW both Sega & Capcom's main audience growth is happening on PC, not Xbox. Even there in some cases the growth is exaggerated. I remember when people were trying to say the main audience for Capcom games this gen, for example, was PC (they were saying this for Street Fighter 6 for example), but the actual words from Capcom when talking about PC as their fastest-growing audience was in reference to catalog (i.e legacy) software releases, not new releases. Granted, I'm sure PC is certainly accounting for a good chunk of total sales of new games, but if we were to get platform splits again, just like before, I'd imagine PlayStation is comprising the lion's share of their sales with PC and Nintendo jockeying for 2nd, and Xbox last among them.
And again with Sega, it's PC and Nintendo I'd say are their fastest-growing platforms, looking at Yakuza 8 performance on Steam combined with some early sales results (I think) where the game isn't doing very well on Xbox B2P. We actually have some sales splits for various Sega games and it looks like for titles like Sonic, Nintendo & PlayStation are about even in sales splits (a surprise to me; I thought Nintendo would take the majority easily and maybe they still do if digital is included but I doubt it) in markets like Spain. Imagine it's similar in at least a good deal of other global markets.
I'd say if anything, Square-Enix probably need to adjust their PC strategy and consider getting some of the smaller games like Ocotopath on mobile platforms like iOS. With PC isn't not the delayed porting window causing an issue, it's them potentially doing EGS exclusivity once the PC port comes that could be an interference to Steam growth. Which probably sucks for Epic, but it is what it is. They should prob consider Day 1 multi-storefront support on PC going forward for whenever the PC versions of Final Fantasy games are ready to release. And the mobile ports should be fairly obvious as to why that'd help with growth.
IMO, Xbox consoles aren't really a necessity or priority for 3P software sales growth, that's how bad the B2P situation has seemingly gotten with the platform nowadays. Sony'll probably have to contend with Nintendo more than Microsoft going forward for certain FF console preferences once the Switch 2 releases, if anything. It'd seem the only way for Microsoft to guarantee Day 1 availability for the big FF games or suchlike is if they pay for the ports themselves, and if they want them in Game Pass, pay for that in addition.
Though, considering the potential offsetting of B2P sales on other platforms for a Day 1 Game Pass get of those types of games, MS would be paying a premium for the privilege, and they've shown that just isn't their style for big 3P AAA releases at launch. It's a big reason they resorted to buying 3P publishers altogether, but that isn't going to be an option for them with publishers like SE (or any other big publisher, IMHO) for a very long time, given they've only just finished ABK (and still have to contend with the FTC on that) and need to start producing results with them and Zenimax, and the 2018 acquisitions too.
FoxMcChief
Gold Member
I’m good with less JRPG’s. Especially when they have an anime art style. I’m for the 2D-HD pixel art style though.
Punished Miku
Gold Member
I would never argue it's a necessity. But more is better than less. Like I said, they can do what they like. People will just play other games. Persona grows each entry and FF shrinks each entry lately. Persona should not be even close to FF, but here we are. Capcom's doing very well also with Monster Hunter. But what do I know.
Danjin44
The nicest person on this forum
And people say I'm "trying to create narrative" when I say most Xbox players are not in to JRPG.
Also These games are gorgeous!
Sushi_Combo
Member
"I'll wait for it to drop on gamepass" also "Why are devs not releasing games on my platform anymore?"
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Shin-Ra
Junior Member
Final Fantasy 14 Online's Xbox open beta launch announced then unannounced by Microsoft
Seems to be a theme of nobody knowing WTF is going on over at Xbox.
Spitfire098
Member
Yo just wait until the NPD list comes out and then dunk on those who are in here thinking it will sell well on Xbox.
Punished Miku
Gold Member
How much do you think it'll sell on PS worldwide?
Spitfire098
Member
How much do you think it'll sell on Xbox?
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Do you think this is gonna top the PS5 NPD charts? This doesn't seem like a chart-topping kind of game regardless of if it will be on game pass or not.
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Punished Miku
Gold Member
I don't really care about sales like you guys do. I was honestly asking. In the past Xbox was shown to do around 10-20% of what PS does.
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FoxMcChief
Gold Member
Who are you quoting?
Danjin44
The nicest person on this forum
Most Xbox players.
FoxMcChief
Gold Member
So just made up concern trolling. Got it.
Tiamat2san
Member
I will buy it then.
No problem here.
No problem here.
FoxMcChief
Gold Member
Not confident this game will sell on PS5 or something? Weird deflection method there.