• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

We know that 8K is achievable on the new consoles but when should devs choose 8K over fidelity?

Kuranghi

Member
Probably try and actually see an 8K display showing 8K content before you say its worthless, as someone else said even 8K downsampled on 4K is a noticeable improvement. I'd bet most people saying that don't even have appropriately sized high quality 4K displays for the distance they sit from them.
 

onQ123

Member


(how was this not posted yet)

But no. We should not be aiming for 8k anytime soon.


And they actually believed that lol
 

Nikana

Go Go Neo Rangers!
And they actually believed that lol

And they actually believed that lol
The human eye can't see blah blah...

It's a topic that always somehow comes around every time there's new tech in the tv space that people literally can't see something and it's debunked pretty fast.

Yet somehow the myth always sticks around.

I sold TVs when I was in my late teens when Blu ray and the 1080p transition was happening and the amount of people that told me there's.no difference between 720p and 1080p was astounding.
 

Fredrik

Gold Member
Hopefully never.
I don’t understand the appeal for high resolution, unless you sit like a meter from your TV you won’t see any pixels on a 4K screen. I’m still playing on 1080p screens on PC and I very much enjoy the high framerate that comes with that. I wish devs went with 1080p as standard and only increased the res after they know they can max it out at 60fps.
 
Copy paste the arguments for 8K for 4K 10 years ago lol. People will want it when they buy their TVs that support 8k. Give them 10 years and all those people will use 8k. Just allows companies to keep their high prices for their premium products and services. Netflix will announce an 8k super duper streaming service so they can charge you $30 a month. Blah blah blah, the cycle continues...

I am really happy with 1440p when I am close to my computer monitor. But people will always want bigger numbers cause that means it is better, right?
 

ClosBSAS

Member
We know of one game that has achieved this. PS5 can't even run fifa 22 at 4k 60fps. So..yeah...maybe 8k is a little bit out of reach for triple a games and not even mentioning what an absolute waste of resources it is
 
current gen consoles already have considerable trouble with native 4k. just offer 8k via upscaling.

funny reading all the comments saying 8k is useless.
read the same thing about 4k.
read the same thing about 1080p.
just use your eyes.
 

Rat Rage

Member
8K is bullshit, just like 4K. It's a fucking waste of computational power with little no perceivable gain at normal viewing distances.

Absolutely nobody needs that. All the big console manufacturers know that it's bullshit, that's why they are investing heavily in A.I. upscaling tech, because stupid consumer sheep have already adopted 4K in masses and there is no going back.
 

TGO

Hype Train conductor. Works harder than it steams.
When we reach graphical details that match a 4k movie at 60fps then we can talk about 8k
 

Kuranghi

Member
8K is bullshit, just like 4K. It's a fucking waste of computational power with little no perceivable gain at normal viewing distances.

Absolutely nobody needs that. All the big console manufacturers know that it's bullshit, that's why they are investing heavily in A.I. upscaling tech, because stupid consumer sheep have already adopted 4K in masses and there is no going back.

Those games are usually rendering internally at 1440p-1800p though which is already a massive jump over 1080p in detail and clarity. Any game thats using temporal reconstruction to achieve a 4K output but is only rendering internally at 1080p is widely derided in my experience.

If most PS5/XSX games were 1080p internally but still looked how they do maybe you'd have a point but I'm not sure it makes sense when the internal res is already many many more pixels than 1080p. So then you could say 1440p with temporal reconstruction is enough and 4K is pointless but wheres the limit on that thinking?
 

rofif

Gold Member
believe me. Dark souls 3 4k vs 8k on a 4k tv looks crazy. Like a post card.
almost hits 30 fps on a 3080 too.
that said, this game don’t have any good as. If it had dlss, it would look better than native 4k and ran better. So 8k really might be pointless.
We said the same about 4k and 1440 looks like shit now
 
Last edited:
Those games are usually rendering internally at 1440p-1800p though which is already a massive jump over 1080p in detail and clarity. Any game thats using temporal reconstruction to achieve a 4K output but is only rendering internally at 1080p is widely derided in my experience.

If most PS5/XSX games were 1080p internally but still looked how they do maybe you'd have a point but I'm not sure it makes sense when the internal res is already many many more pixels than 1080p. So then you could say 1440p with temporal reconstruction is enough and 4K is pointless but wheres the limit on that thinking?
My 2 cents are if a game has a good temporal upscaling component, depending on the style of the game, *1600p-1800p* is a good range to avoid wasted resources and still get the maximum benefit. Of course that depends on the method ; Ue4's blurry method needs all the resolution it can get. And there's worse methods than Ue4 for sure...

Because you get some blur even with *Insomniac's TAA* which is like the gold standard for temporal upscale currently, 4k native is a waste for now. 1080p though? Ue4 temporal upscale looks awful, needs 1440p minimum.

But if there's no temporal component, native 4k can be worth it, i.e. 4k plus msaa/smaa 1x. Maximum crisp! Native 8k will be beneficial mostly for a pristine blur free approach.
 

RoadHazard

Gold Member
The human eye can't see blah blah...

It's a topic that always somehow comes around every time there's new tech in the tv space that people literally can't see something and it's debunked pretty fast.

Yet somehow the myth always sticks around.

I sold TVs when I was in my late teens when Blu ray and the 1080p transition was happening and the amount of people that told me there's.no difference between 720p and 1080p was astounding.

It's not "debunked" though, it's simple science. The human eye cannot resolve unlimited detail at arbitrary distances. Do you believe you would see the difference between 1080p and 4K on a 20" TV from 10 meters away? You wouldn't. That's a silly example, yes, but the same applies to all TV sizes but at different distances (the larger the TV is, the further away you can sit and still be able to tell the difference).
 

brian0057

Gold Member
Never.
Honestly, the push for 8K resolutions and textures has ballooned budgets to Ukraine's GDP levels while the mechanical quality goes down.
This is why I've found myself drifting towards the indie scene in the last few years.
 

Celcius

°Temp. member
Probably try and actually see an 8K display showing 8K content before you say its worthless, as someone else said even 8K downsampled on 4K is a noticeable improvement. I'd bet most people saying that don't even have appropriately sized high quality 4K displays for the distance they sit from them.
This is a good point. Most of the people in this thread saying 8K is a waste have probably never actually seen 8K content running on an 8K TV.
 

Fahdis

Member
I’m an atheist, but sometimes I wish there was a god just so I could pray and ask him to roll graphics back to PS2 level and keep them there for a decade. Imagine all the shit devs would have to come up with to make their games interesting. Imagine all the stupid threads we’d be spared on this board.

Oh, who am I kidding. We’d just get daily 50 page threads full of people arguing about what games will look like in 2032.

Ironically, I want to argue about this in 2021 in the perspective of 2032. Now... why the fuck do games still lack animation in this last decade? And is my base game now broken down into parts to buy the rest of the experience? Why is Konami still alive on Pachinko? After a 100 Patches why is Cyberpunk 2077 still broken? God...
 
Last edited:

Derktron

Banned
For me, I think it's possible but it would depend on the developers and the game itself, I can see 8K being implemented racing games, some indie games, and maybe Minecraft?
 

Nikana

Go Go Neo Rangers!
It's not "debunked" though, it's simple science. The human eye cannot resolve unlimited detail at arbitrary distances. Do you believe you would see the difference between 1080p and 4K on a 20" TV from 10 meters away? You wouldn't. That's a silly example, yes, but the same applies to all TV sizes but at different distances (the larger the TV is, the further away you can sit and still be able to tell the difference).

Your silly example is exactly what I was referring to which was in my original post. I never said that it's all debunked.

It doesn't change the fact that there's always ridiculous statements around what the human eye can and can't do/see that indeed are debunked.
 

RoadHazard

Gold Member
Your silly example is exactly what I was referring to which was in my original post. I never said that it's all debunked.

It doesn't change the fact that there's always ridiculous statements around what the human eye can and can't do/see that indeed are debunked.

It still applies to something like a 55" 4K TV at only a few meters though.
 

Kataploom

Member
cos it looks better, you'll notice when you try it
I did, looks better, no jaggies at least but nothing else, nothing to care sooo much about to tank games performance, it's like something I'd like to have if I had shitton of power to spare that's not being put in use... which won't happen lol
 
Last edited:

onQ123

Member
I did, looks better, no jaggies at least but nothing else, nothing to care sooo much about to tank games performance, it's like something I'd like to have if I had shitton of power to spare that's not being put in use... which won't happen lol
The thread is about using it for games that will have the power leftover .
 

Fredrik

Gold Member
When we reach graphical details that match a 4k movie at 60fps then we can talk about 8k
Or even a 1080p movie. It’s not like anything looks like Avatar on bluray yet. I think the focus on resolution is extremely odd to be honest, Crytek was right all along when the made Ryse in 900p, the graphical fidelity is more important than resolution. And framerate is important too.
 
Last edited:

SF Kosmo

...please disperse...
I don't think native 8K will ever be a good spend on resources unless we're talking about a game with a ridiculous amount of overhead and an intentionally simple aesthetic.

There's just diminishing returns when it comes to resolution, which is why most games are okay with a little less than 4K and some image reconstruction. As image reconstruction gets better and better like DLSS, it's just not going to make any sense to target native 8K just so Digital Foundry can benchmark it and usesrs with 110" TVs can see it from 4 inches away.
 

TGO

Hype Train conductor. Works harder than it steams.
Or even a 1080p movie. It’s not like anything looks like Avatar on bluray yet. I think the focus on resolution is extremely odd to be honest, Crytek was right all along when the made Ryse in 900p, the graphical fidelity is more important than resolution. And framerate is important too.
Ryse and any other game can benefit from 1080p or 4k, but beyond that?
What exactly are we trying to see at those resolutions?
With films we are finally at the point where the 4K video matches the details of the production stills they release.
Games we are not even close.
 
Last edited:

MayauMiao

Member
All this talk and nobody's posting screenshots. Here's PS5 in perf. mode vs native 4k vs downsampled 8k.

I'd say the differences are fairly visible. Just make sure to view it at native res.


You are right. I do see the 8K advantage if it runs at 1 screenshot per second.
 
Top Bottom