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[The Hamburglar]

Any many of you know creation engine is garbage. It’s faults have come apparent again on my resent play through of fallout 4.

Decima for me. Works great for death stranding lots of interactions with items with physics. Large open map with good animations.

 

[MMaRsu]

You already know they will use Gamebryo for their next game (Starfield) right?

 

[StateofMajora]

FFS, they could use Criterion's renderware engine circa 2002 and it would be better than gamebryo.

 

[The Hamburglar]

You already know they will use Gamebryo for their next game (Starfield) right?

For sure it’s Bethesda..
Just wondering what would actually be better since they won’t build a new one

 

[reforen]

Unreal 5 is not in the survey options

 

[SlimeGooGoo]

.

 

[RPSleon]

How good would fallout be if it didnt handle and look like trash.

 

[BennyBlanco]

luminous engine just to see the world burn

 

[IntentionalPun]

None. The engine Bethesda uses for their RPGs is unmatched.

If you want a different kind of game, play a different kind of game.

 

[Quixz]

Voted Decima but UE4 is safe bet.

 

[Danjin44]

It doesn't matter the "engine" it about them not able to code their games properly and unable to make decent looking character models. There are bunch other games using old ass engine and still looks and runs well.

 

[driqe]

As someone who's worked with ue4 professionally and makes custom game engines in their spare time, I'm of the opinion that ue4 is impossible to use to make a Bethesda RPG.

Game engines are tricky things. they need insane amounts of engineering put into them in order to make them performant and usable, and in many cases, game engines need to be catered towards the type of game it will be used to make.

This allows the game engine will be engineered to be optimized for those types of games.
This also means a generic game engine (such as unreal) most likely won't be optimal for many types of games.

Bethesda's version of the creation engine is probably geared towards being performant with large seamless maps, and I doubt there are many other engines that are made for these types of games (maybe the one they use at Avalanche studios).

Unreal is very good for smaller levels that have pre-baked everything to look really pretty.

It's not very good for large worlds like Bethesda games. The best option for Bethesda would be to improve upon the engine and not discard decades of knowledge to essentially learn a new engine.

 

[MrA]

How good would fallout be if it didnt handle and look like trash.

would it be bethesda's fallout if you couldn't pick up every bent tin can and broken garden gnome?

 

[MMaRsu]

None. The engine Bethesda uses for their RPGs is unmatched.

If you want a different kind of game, play a different kind of game.

Unmatched in what, the amount of bugs?

 

[ZoukGalaxy]

None.

That's why exactly they keep using it.
Engine has been so deeply customized to meet their needs that restarting from scratch with a new engine and recreate all their tools and customization will be be time consuming considering how "small" the main team is.
They will continue to evolve their engine as long "it just works"... mostly.

 

[nikolino840]

Dragon?

 

[Bernkastel]

Level Designer in Arkane.

Unmatched in what

Creating an interactive open world RPG with dynamic day and night cycle where every object is not part of a scenery and hence very easy to mod, unlike every other engine mentioned in OP. Ofcourse Skyrim had issues in the 360 generation(they used the same engine in Fallout 4) but they have completely overhauled it for Starfield/TES VI. Forcing engines on games not meant for them will lead to a Frostbite situation(OP sounds like the EA management in that regard). Bethesda owns id Tech(which OP failed to mention) and they won't use that either.

Bethesda Explains Why id Tech 5 Wouldn't Work for Fallout 4

In an interview with AusGamers from QuakeCon, Bethesda's Pete Hines explained why Fallout 4 wouldn't work on id Tech tech. From the interviewNone of these detractors damaged the ambitious scope of what Bethesda Game Studios has set out to achieve, but next to the beauty of recent open-world...

n4g.com

“No, because of moveable objects [in Fallout 4],” reasoned Hines. “Doom has interactive stuff, but it doesn’t account for hundreds and thousands of little items that you can pick up and move and they’re all individual. It’s not suited for a game where you want to have thousands [of items] and clutter the world with all this stuff that’s all interactive and has physics. It’s just not what it’s for.”

 

[Spukc]

Anything.
Adobe Flash would prolly be better

 

[The Fartist]

RED Engine.

 

[KyoZz]

REDengine, it has the right amount of bugs for a Fallout game

Edit:

RED Engine.

Damn you

 

[MeatSafeMurderer]

Gamebryo / Creation
Look...I know you don't like it...I don't either really...but the tools for it are solid and average Joe friendly...and that means good mod support.

Also Bethesda would find a way to make a mess of it even if they were using the most solid engine in the universe.

 

[BigTnaples]

None. Nothing does what Creation does. And the tech is just now being created that will allow TES and FO to enter the new generation. The indoor outdoor loading cells becoming a part of the past while maintaining the world persistence is the challenge.

 

[Torrent of Pork]

I don't give a shit as long as it's as easy for modders to work with. I'll put up with Creation's shenanigans indefinitely so long as we get wild shit out of the modding scene for the next decade.

That's the sole reason we talk about these games for a decade.

 

[Warablo]

In theory a different engine sounds great, but the whole game interactivity may end up different. How NPC's handle, how items, physics, lootable stuff is placed. etc...

 

[I don't like pirates]

We're talking here about Bethesda. If i'm not mistaken, they had a room (some sort of developers room, for god only knows what) in Fallout76 and, people cracked it and they have no clue about how to fix it ¿?

I'd give them the worst, most infamous, advanced, hard and introverted engine ever created by mankind: The Cryengine.

Just for the laughs.

 

[Hugare]

Their excuse since forever has been "we use our dated engine 'cause there are thousands of interactive objects" and etc.

But honestly, I dont give a fuck about being able to hold a piece of scrap in front of me. That's a bullshit excuse for their dated engine.

I've played 90h of Cyberpunk, and it has LOTS of objects to interact with while still looking awesome.

Dying Light is another first person open world game where you can interact with a lot of stuff and still looks/performs better than anything made by Bethesda.

Fallout 3 is one of my favorite games of all time, and NOTHING would be lost if instead of thousands of objects I could just interact with hundreds.

It's an excuse to keep a dated engine that's held together by tape and glue.

But maybe the problem is on me, because I would rather have something polished and good looking like The Witcher 3 than some shitty looking buggy mess like Fallout 4 that at least is moddable.

 

[mhirano]

Watch it be Skyrim engine with 4k and RT suppprt duct-taped together

 

[EDMIX]

Any many of you know creation engine is garbage. It’s faults have come apparent again on my resent play through of fallout 4.

Decima for me. Works great for death stranding lots of interactions with items with physics. Large open map with good animations.

If they HAD to use a different engine, Unreal.

I'm a fan of the team being able to use tools that fucking make sense to THEM. We don't need to end up in a Cyberpunk 2077 or Mass Effect Andromeda situation having a team work on a engine that clearly they are having issues with. So if they work on a engine that many of us see as lessor, I don't fucking care.

Do they feel ok working with it?

Thats all that matters.

That Mass Effect team struggled to work on Frostbite yet DICE did wonders with that engine. I care more about if the team is able to make content successfully with the engine vs simply my opinion of the engine. I'm ok with them using something like Unreal Engine 5 if they can, I feel ok with them using the same engine with upgrades. So long as the final product is great, I'm not really worried until that team is worried lol

 

[Mistershine.]

No love for Ubisoft Anvil?

 

[I don't like pirates]

If they HAD to use a different engine, Unreal.

I'm a fan of the team being able to use tools that fucking make sense to THEM. We don't need to end up in a Cyberpunk 2077 or Mass Effect Andromeda situation having a team work on a engine that clearly they are having issues with. So if they work on a engine that many of us see as lessor, I don't fucking care.

Do they feel ok working with it?

Thats all that matters.

That Mass Effect team struggled to work on Frostbite yet DICE did wonders with that engine. I care more about if the team is able to make content successfully with the engine vs simply my opinion of the engine. I'm ok with them using something like Unreal Engine 5 if they can, I feel ok with them using the same engine with upgrades. So long as the final product is great, I'm not really worried until that team is worried lol

But that philosophy of: "it's working for them", sure it's not going to get them very far.

They're sloppy as hell. I gess MS is going to change some of that dymanic right away. It's for the better, 'couse you can't be that sloppy and get away with it every time. It's a matter of time that their games can't compete with the rest.

 

[EDMIX]

But that philosophy of: "it's working for them", sure it's not going to get them very far.

They're sloppy as hell. I gess MS is going to change some of that dymanic right away. It's for the better, 'couse you can't be that sloppy and get away with it every time. It's a matter of time that their games can't compete with the rest.

Yet that style has worked for them.

Fallout 4 Ships 12 Million Copies in One Day, Breaks Records

That represents sales in excess of $750 million, Bethesda says; see all the record-breaking numbers here.

www.gamespot.com

So I'm sorry bud, there is a strong trust that the fans have with that set up that I'd argue supported those day 1 sales. (me included). Many of us only care about the content, a fancy new engine is nice and all, but we care about the actual overall game first and foremost and if the team doesn't want to make a new engine and are fine using the one they have, I don't see many really giving a shit considering Fallout 4's record sales.


Many of us simply don't fucking care.

So this whole "matter of time" should have made Fallout 4 their biggest failure, not breaking multiple sales records. MS would be smart to simply allow the team to make their game how they see fit that works for THEIR TEAM, MS would be smart to learn that fucking lesson from EA and not force a team to work on a engine they are not familiar with.

Shit I thought Frostbite would do wonders for Mass Effect, it truly is an amazing engine.....IN THE RIGHT FUCKING HANDS, you can't just FORCE someone to use a engine and then act surprised when it ends up some technical train wreck. I don't blame Bioware for that mess, it was a branch of a new team, I blame EA for forcing that engine.

So MS's best bet is to allow the team to work on a engine that gets THEM the best result. The best engine on paper, doesn't always mean what the best engine is for that team in general.

 

[I don't like pirates]

Yet that style has worked for them.

Fallout 4 Ships 12 Million Copies in One Day, Breaks Records

That represents sales in excess of $750 million, Bethesda says; see all the record-breaking numbers here.

www.gamespot.com

So I'm sorry bud, there is a strong trust that the fans have with that set up that I'd argue supported those day 1 sales. (me included). Many of us only care about the content, a fancy new engine is nice and all, but we care about the actual overall game first and foremost and if the team doesn't want to make a new engine and are fine using the one they have, I don't see many really giving a shit considering Fallout 4's record sales.


Many of us simply don't fucking care.

So this whole "matter of time" should have made Fallout 4 their biggest failure, not breaking multiple sales records. MS would be smart to simply allow the team to make their game how they see fit that works for THEIR TEAM, MS would be smart to learn that fucking lesson from EA and not force a team to work on a engine they are not familiar with.

Shit I thought Frostbite would do wonders for Mass Effect, it truly is an amazing engine.....IN THE RIGHT FUCKING HANDS, you can't just FORCE someone to use a engine and then act surprised when it ends up some technical train wreck. I don't blame Bioware for that mess, it was a branch of a new team, I blame EA for forcing that engine.

So MS's best bet is to allow the team to work on a engine that gets THEM the best result. The best engine on paper, doesn't always mean what the best engine is for that team in general.

Yeah, i love Bethesda too, but their games have some serious problems. And lately? Don't get me started.

MS shouldn't leave them at their will. Fallout76 is a proof that can't leave Bethesda do as they please. They're completely clueless.

 

[EDMIX]

Yeah, i love Bethesda too, but their games have some serious problems. And lately? Don't get me started.

MS shouldn't leave them at their will. Fallout76 is a proof that can't leave Bethesda do as they please. They're completely clueless.

I disagree. They have issues, but nothing so serious its halting major sales. Again....Fallout 4.

Fallout 76 is proof that many don't want a Fallout MMO and like it as a single player title mostly. Stop trying to force the idea that Fallout 76 failing MUST mean they are clueless and its all about the engine.

Nintendo, MS, Sony, EA and yes Bethesda has made some failures. That is the nature of the industry. That isn't some indicator that such a concept is normal with Bethesda anymore then The Order 1886 failing is a norm of Sony games. Be like "completely clueless doe".

I think it would be great if they used a brand new engine too....IF they wanted to and had no issue with it.

Fallout 5, Starfield and Elder Scrolls VI are day 1s for me regardless of what engine they fucking use. That should give you and idea of just how little lots of us actually care about that. I don't want a new engine at the cost of the team struggling with it.

I was happy to hear Mass Effect Andromeda was using Frostbite. I wasn't happy at its final result. I think many of us in hindsight (EA included) would have just wanted them to use Unreal Engine.

Its a nice wish bud, but only if the team can fucking even fully use the engine to even make the game. No point if the final game is suffering due to the team struggling.

 

[Hudo]

Whatever they're using right now, tbh. They will just keep evolving the modules necessary for the game they're working on and keep at it until the basic structure is not feasible to iterate upon anymore.
Engines nowadays aren't monolithic, they're modular. You don't write whole new engines just because armchair experts on Twitter and online forums don't know what they're talking about.

The only thing that Bethesda should rethink completely is probably their approach to quality assurance.

 

[EDMIX]

Whatever they're using right now, tbh. They will just keep evolving the modules necessary for the game they're working on and keep at it until the basic structure is not feasible to iterate upon anymore.
Engines nowadays aren't monolithic, they're modular. You don't write whole new engines just because armchair experts on Twitter and online forums don't know what they're talking about.

The only thing that Bethesda should rethink completely is probably their approach to quality assurance.

This.

I remember when folks tried to make a big deal about Red Dead Redemption 2 using RAGE arguing that its an engine from 2006, thus will be a "flopz lolz" etc. So those teams know whats best for them and they are the one's moving record units. Who the fuck am I to tell them how they should build THEIR game?

 

[Shubh_C63]

How much money and expertise exactly did Zenimax had ?

I mean I always assumed the deal to go with Microsoft was also favored by their inability to make an engine worthy of Elder Scrolls or Fallout name (like the game will still sell well but their franchise reputation will take a massive hit. Any publisher playing the long game won't want to squander this cashcow).

Microsoft might give them enough backing to risk a completely new engine.

 

[martino]

Your list are only engines with poor focus on complex system and interactivity in comparison...
So none of them...
Is there only one big engine with some focus on that ?

 

[I don't like pirates]

I disagree. They have issues, but nothing so serious its halting major sales. Again....Fallout 4.

Fallout 76 is proof that many don't want a Fallout MMO and like it as a single player title mostly. Stop trying to force the idea that Fallout 76 failing MUST mean they are clueless and its all about the engine.

Nintendo, MS, Sony, EA and yes Bethesda has made some failures. That is the nature of the industry. That isn't some indicator that such a concept is normal with Bethesda anymore then The Order 1886 failing is a norm of Sony games. Be like "completely clueless doe".

I think it would be great if they used a brand new engine too....IF they wanted to and had no issue with it.

Fallout 5, Starfield and Elder Scrolls VI are day 1s for me regardless of what engine they fucking use. That should give you and idea of just how little lots of us actually care about that. I don't want a new engine at the cost of the team struggling with it.

I was happy to hear Mass Effect Andromeda was using Frostbite. I wasn't happy at its final result. I think many of us in hindsight (EA included) would have just wanted them to use Unreal Engine.

Its a nice wish bud, but only if the team can fucking even fully use the engine to even make the game. No point if the final game is suffering due to the team struggling.

Yes, i was joking when i said they should use the Cryengine, lol. I don't want them to use something that becomes a burden and ends up messing with the good things that this studio is able to pull off.

I just want them to get better. I think that's reasonable.

 

[EDMIX]

Yes, i was joking when i said they should use the Cryengine, lol. I don't want them to use something that becomes a burden and ends up messing with the good things that this studio is able to pull off.

I just want them to get better. I think that's reasonable.

I don't disagree with you, but if getting better to them is simply reworking a engine they are already familiar with, i personally rather have them do that.

They are after all the ones that actually make those games. I trust they know what they are doing for them to keep using the same engine and reworking other areas. I feel the entire concept of a team using a "old engine" has simply gotten out of hand with the community as they seem to think something completely different when they hear a team using a engine they've used before.

Lets be honest here.....how many games have we ever seen where every fucking entry used a brand new engine, every time? How can we even ask them to do this when we ourselves don't even have any example of any team in gaming doing many AAA games all with new engines after every sequel or something. It tells me, the thing many are asking may not be as normal and routine as many might really think.

 

[Negotiator101]

For sure it’s Bethesda..
Just wondering what would actually be better since they won’t build a new one

Why wouldn't they use ID tech 7 though? Same owners right?

 

[Bankai]

The Decima engine for a MS exclusive..? That would be something.

 

[Fitzchiv]

Whatever Obsidian used for Outer World's.

In fact, just to make things easier why not....(Microsoft, you know it makes sense)

 

[kuncol02]

I'm of the opinion that ue4 is impossible to use to make a Bethesda RPG.

You should tell that to Obsidian. I think they didn't get your memo.

 

[I don't like pirates]

I don't disagree with you, but if getting better to them is simply reworking a engine they are already familiar with, i personally rather have them do that.

They are after all the ones that actually make those games. I trust they know what they are doing for them to keep using the same engine and reworking other areas. I feel the entire concept of a team using a "old engine" has simply gotten out of hand with the community as they seem to think something completely different when they hear a team using a engine they've used before.

Lets be honest here.....how many games have we ever seen where every fucking entry used a brand new engine, every time? How can we even ask them to do this when we ourselves don't even have any example of any team in gaming doing many AAA games all with new engines after every sequel or something. It tells me, the thing many are asking may not be as normal and routine as many might really think.

Normally, people don't ask developers to change the engine of their games. Apart from Bethesda and their Fallout and Elder scroll games, the only thing that comes to my mind is Activision and their COD games. And people complained for a reason.

You leave Bethesda do what they want in their next big game and they'll perform very poorly like they did with FO76.

They have to change some things there.

 

[I'm nobody]

Naughty dog engine with naughty dog ai

 

[EDMIX]

Why wouldn't they use ID tech 7 though? Same owners right?

Did Rage 2 use ID Tech 7 or did Avalanche use something else? I vaguely recall something about it not using ID tech for some reason.

 

[EDMIX]

You leave Bethesda do what they want in their next big game and they'll perform very poor like they did with FO76.

Nah, you are simply really forcing the idea that Fallout 76's failure is based on an engine.

Doesn't explain Fallout 4's success.... Fallout 76 had a bunch of issues yes, but I don't see the engine being the sole reason that game flopped as to really make it sound like simply a different engine was going to magically make it successful. Its issues I'd argue are more so based on it being a online title vs a tradition Fallout title. You know......Fallout 4, the one that moved record units. Didn't see the engine stopping that game from selling.

Connect the dots and we can talk about it, but stop trying to force this idea that the game flopped based on the engine (yet try to desperately ignore Fallout 4's record sales on that very same engine)

 

[Negotiator101]

Did Rage 2 use ID Tech 7 or did Avalanche use something else? I vaguely recall something about it not using ID tech for some reason.

Yeah used the Apex engine, probably that's what they are used to using. Or ID Tech is not suited to open worlds perhaps?

 

[Edgelord79]

Nah, you are simply really forcing the idea that Fallout 76's failure is based on an engine.

Doesn't explain Fallout 4's success.... Fallout 76 had a bunch of issues yes, but I don't see the engine being the sole reason that game flopped as to really make it sound like simply a different engine was going to magically make it successful. Its issues I'd argue are more so based on it being a online title vs a tradition Fallout title. You know......Fallout 4, the one that moved record units. Didn't see the engine stopping that game from selling.

Connect the dots and we can talk about it, but stop trying to force this idea that the game flopped based on the engine (yet try to desperately ignore Fallout 4's record sales on that very same engine)

I thought there were very real issues with using the Creation in Fallout 76 because of the multiplayer aspect. I was under the impression that the Creation engine was not made for this in mind and every had to adapt it causing large issues.

 

[kuncol02]

Did Rage 2 use ID Tech 7 or did Avalanche use something else? I vaguely recall something about it not using ID tech for some reason.

Avalanche used their own engine.