-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
What has happened to memorable characters.
- Thread starter Heimdall_Xtreme
- Start date
NotMyProblemAnymoreCunt
Gold Member
The cant beat Yoko Taro!
Agreed there...
From what I remember hearing is that some people working at SquareEnix are especially salty about 2B popularity in comparison to Lighting. Hmmm I wonder why?
TGO
Hype Train conductor. Works harder than it steams.
Those characters were sexist and racist
You don't know Heather from Silent Hill 3
You don't know Heather from Silent Hill 3
Last edited:
MiguelItUp
Member
There are plenty of memorable characters out there. It just all depends on what you consider memorable, and what games you're playing.
Exactly. This whole series has been a gold mine, and it's still going. This is just one example, but it's a big one.No memorable characters?
Danjin44
The nicest person on this forum
I dont think they can be "salty" about it since its making tones of money for Square.
Last edited:
VideoGameEnjoyer
Member
TGO
Hype Train conductor. Works harder than it steams.
I think the OP means new characters, Yakuza is from the 2000's so it doesn't count.
Today's games have a lot self inserts and representation.
Which them being unmemorable explains why they was represented before.
It is hard with me
There are games I've never played and even I know who the characters are.
I mean even if you say "that chick from Silent Hill" I'd let you off.
You don't need to know their Surname and shit
The only other excuse would be if you've only ever own a Nintendo Console
or.......OR, you're a filthy casual
Which is pretty much the same thing.
Wait you're not one of those Gen Zers
Last edited:
NotMyProblemAnymoreCunt
Gold Member
Well they still have their "Trust and Safety" Division that they didn't get rid of but most likely renamed that division to something else
MiguelItUp
Member
Ah, I was mentioning Yakuza because while it's a dated series, it continued to add new (memorable IMO) characters as of the more recent games like Like a Dragon, and Infinite Wealth.
Like, Ichiban for example.
And honestly, even as a SH fan, I think many would agree the two latest "games" were never meant to contain great examples of memorable characters. I don't know if anything connected to Konami will ever be able to produce such a thing ever again, lol.
Last edited:
VideoGameEnjoyer
Member
It is, I am still unsure.It is hard with me
Is "That chick from Silent Hill" the second pic in the OP? Boy, is that an unmemorable character design. I too know characters from games I've never played. Just not the bad examples in the OP.There are games I've never played and even I know who the characters are.
I mean even if you say "that chick from Silent Hill" I'd let you off.
You don't need to know their Surname and shit
The only other excuse would be if you've only ever own a Nintendo Console
or.......OR, you're a filthy casual
Which is pretty much the same thing.
Wait you're not one of those Gen Zers
Don't you DARE call me a casual or Gen Zer
CamHostage
Member
What happened was, you got older, tech got less impressive, and the gaming market got more crowded.
When you were young, Silent Hill stood out as a groundbreaking experience with advanced technology and masterful horror storytelling created by some of the top designers in gaming history. You dedicated hours of your formative years focused on these games (which were the few of what you or your family could afford to buy/rent at a given time) and you connected emotionally with the characters and events in the games.
Now, you're old. Shit isn't as novel or important to you any more, and there's WAY more shit out there at much more affordable prices (especially once AAA games bomba) to pick up. You don't spend all your life obsessing over one game. You don't identify with characters that are made primarily to sell to teens and young people today (and yet the teens and young people don't consume entertainment with as much personal investment as generations before because it's all available disposably to them.) Game development takes much longer, so the masters are only putting out one or two games per era, while the flood of available software by less accomplished design studios is bigger than ever. Graphics have evolved, and the technology to render characters is shared across all developers, making it difficult to make characters stand out while also striving for natural photorealism and motion accuracy. (Heather has a cool vest, that's unique, but is Douglas in SH3 a memorable character? All I know of him is that he had amazing beard-rendering technology on PS2, and so JPEGs of him will live on forever. Nobody will champion a game these days based on how good a beard looks.) You're not in that mindset anymore, and tastes and sales conditions have changed.
You're also ignoring the many, many, many other games which came out in the same timeframe as the games that connected with you which didn't have "memorable characters". You don't remember them, but unmemorable characters were as plentiful back in the day as now.
...Granted, a certain level of panache should be encouraged in game design. I don't think though that we need to tear down what's out there now to encourage bold new design choices.
When you were young, Silent Hill stood out as a groundbreaking experience with advanced technology and masterful horror storytelling created by some of the top designers in gaming history. You dedicated hours of your formative years focused on these games (which were the few of what you or your family could afford to buy/rent at a given time) and you connected emotionally with the characters and events in the games.
Now, you're old. Shit isn't as novel or important to you any more, and there's WAY more shit out there at much more affordable prices (especially once AAA games bomba) to pick up. You don't spend all your life obsessing over one game. You don't identify with characters that are made primarily to sell to teens and young people today (and yet the teens and young people don't consume entertainment with as much personal investment as generations before because it's all available disposably to them.) Game development takes much longer, so the masters are only putting out one or two games per era, while the flood of available software by less accomplished design studios is bigger than ever. Graphics have evolved, and the technology to render characters is shared across all developers, making it difficult to make characters stand out while also striving for natural photorealism and motion accuracy. (Heather has a cool vest, that's unique, but is Douglas in SH3 a memorable character? All I know of him is that he had amazing beard-rendering technology on PS2, and so JPEGs of him will live on forever. Nobody will champion a game these days based on how good a beard looks.) You're not in that mindset anymore, and tastes and sales conditions have changed.
You're also ignoring the many, many, many other games which came out in the same timeframe as the games that connected with you which didn't have "memorable characters". You don't remember them, but unmemorable characters were as plentiful back in the day as now.
...Granted, a certain level of panache should be encouraged in game design. I don't think though that we need to tear down what's out there now to encourage bold new design choices.
Last edited:
The Stig
Member
Uhh there are plenty of memorable characters in modern gaming. OP actually proved my point.
I recognize the girl from silent hill 3 from OP and I dont remember anything about her except that she was in that game.
I also recognize the trader from RE4 and he has almost ZERO personality.
I recognize the girl from silent hill 3 from OP and I dont remember anything about her except that she was in that game.
I also recognize the trader from RE4 and he has almost ZERO personality.
TGO
Hype Train conductor. Works harder than it steams.
Japanese games are also excluded as they still live happily in that eraAh, I was mentioning Yakuza because while it's a dated series, it continued to add new (memorable IMO) characters as of the more recent games like Like a Dragon, and Infinite Wealth.
Like, Ichiban for example.
And honestly, even as a SH fan, I think many would agree the two latest "games" were never meant to contain great examples of memorable characters. I don't know if anything connected to Konami will ever be able to produce such a thing ever again, lol.
OP should fix the question.
Then again, a lot western games were shit back then so nothing has changed really
It is, I am still unsure.
Is "That chick from Silent Hill" the second pic in the OP? Boy, is that an unmemorable character design. I too know characters from games I've never played. Just not the bad examples in the OP.
Don't you DARE call me a casual or Gen Zer
The character is memorable.
But they're not memorable to you as you never played them, sooo how can you remember something you never experienced...
And sorry bro, your lack of gaming knowledge did make it look like that.
I take it back
But I'd never partner up with you in gaming quiz
VideoGameEnjoyer
Member
TGO
Hype Train conductor. Works harder than it steams.
Okay but you need to brush up on your gaming memorabilia, I ain't hardcore in the slightest butSuch a niche reason to disqualify me. Give me another chance coach!
The first two pictures are
Claudia & Heather from Silent Hill 3
The 3rd is a collection of characters from the Silent Hill series 1-3
I ain't naming them all but pick one and I'll give you their name in a flash
The 4th is Rule of Rose I'll let you off as the game was very rare to find anyway (And Yes I have it)
And the final one is Fiona Belli is from Haunting Ground, A Survival Horror game released by Capcom on the PS2
there was only one of them so it's understandable you don't recognise her, but here's something you obviously don't know. Fiona was based off Jill from Resident Evil Remake
I agree the OP could of gave better examples because you never played Silent Hill so you wouldn't know the first 3 and the other two was one hit games that are rare to find these days.
Just read books, it's stories are very rich, I can't stand this topic, it sounds like an endless drama marathon, if you put all this stuff in a microscope, you'll find these contents are hardly dependable, hardly to rely on from your experiences and expect a better or at least a similar future outcome, it's unsecure, unsafe, you could hardly depend on companies cause they see a product and we see art, you can't be serious and expect it to survive.
Last edited:
Dr.Morris79
Gold Member
Why you all pretending to forget?
MagiusNecros
Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
Probably has more to do with being a well written character. Having nice legs and a booty are just bonuses. 2B is a very dynamic character. Anyone that hasn't played Automata probably should.
But I think OP is looking for memorable Survival Horror designs...and those games are pretty niche.
2B is on another level of memorable if they are commonly used for collaborations not only within Square Enix but other companies as well.
NotMyProblemAnymoreCunt
Gold Member
Elizabeth from Bioshock Infinite is a good example of a more recent Western WAIFU. It is from 2013 though. So over ten years ago. Back when they weren't afraid to make attractive female characters
Last edited:
Hypereides
Member
You can still find somewhat unique and memorable characters in indie and AA games these days.
Modern AAA character creation and design is mostly sterile though. Its become a meticulous process where the characters are carefully, crafted through market research. Gone are the days when some AAA developer would do something they, themselves, by their own will thought was "cool" or unique. Nowadays, characters that bring anything remotely unique are getting buckled by corporate scrutiny aside from those weird "modern" requirements.
Modern AAA character creation and design is mostly sterile though. Its become a meticulous process where the characters are carefully, crafted through market research. Gone are the days when some AAA developer would do something they, themselves, by their own will thought was "cool" or unique. Nowadays, characters that bring anything remotely unique are getting buckled by corporate scrutiny aside from those weird "modern" requirements.
Dorago
Member
The game let you purchase the Steam Achievements that you hadn't earned yet.2B is one of the most memorable characters in modern games
if you tell me she is memorable just because “sexy” we had plenty of sexy design in Japanese games but most of them never became as popular as 2B.
I didn't realize I was doing this, and I immediately regretted when I did it
THAT was good video game writing.
The characters were great too, including several well written tin can robots.
YOU PC BRO?!
Member
Current day ideological perspectives have been a large factor. A lot of companies are playing it safe; too afraid to take chances; too afraid to risk offending the serially offended. This extends not only from the visual representation of various characters but also their actions, philosophy and perspectives. When dialog is filtered through ‘sensitivity readers’ it’s never going to have the dynamism, edge or freedom to stand out or be special. Such a shame we are all party to this insanity.
Neon Xenon
Member
The only one of these characters I recall or even remotely care about is Neenah (rightmost), and that's only because I like Brunette women with glasses.You don't like these super cool characters? I find them refreshing!
Last edited:
KXVXII9X
Member
Everyone started wanting self inserts and customizable characters and games went away from fun, zany characters to hyperealistic ones with a personality of a peanut. A lot of games set you in an empty open world where most of the itneractable NPCs are enemies.
It is probably why I like the Yakuza series. So many memorable characters. Ichiban is my favorite character in all media. I think it is why J/RPGs with heavy character focus still have a loyal audience with games like Honkai Star Rail, Baldur's Gate, Disco Elysium, and Persona. Nintendo also has a strong brand identity and Sony still has some franchises with memorable characters.
It is probably why I like the Yakuza series. So many memorable characters. Ichiban is my favorite character in all media. I think it is why J/RPGs with heavy character focus still have a loyal audience with games like Honkai Star Rail, Baldur's Gate, Disco Elysium, and Persona. Nintendo also has a strong brand identity and Sony still has some franchises with memorable characters.
U n i o n 0015
Member
Also, writing gone to shit.
I forgot where I read it, but to paraphrase the comment, it was that modern writing is "people not writing from experience, but from the movies and shows they've watched." Writers decades past typically lived very interesting lives of their own and they transferred these experiences onto the page. Most writers in the movie and game industry these days live very sheltered and privileged lives; they're not truth and adventure seekers. And it shows in their writing, which has become a pastiche of tropes from things that both you and I have already watched.
Last edited:
KXVXII9X
Member
I don't think getting older is always the case. At least in my experience.
I still can find a good number of memorable characters mainly due to playing story driven games and J/RPGs, but the industry seems to focus more on self-insert and customizable characters over preestablished characters with their own backgrounds, abilities, and personalities. A lot of games also create these huge open worlds with very little NPC interactions other than enemies and no party members or anything like that. The character you play as is a blank slate as a power fantasy. Again, it isn't every game, but seems like a growing trend.
Honestly, I wish developers would ease up with chasing photorealism above all else. Without good writing/dialogue, animation, and personality, it feels pointless. They feel like uncanny dolls. Stylistic games like HiFi Rush and Super Mario Wonder bring so much personality and energy due to the animations and art direction alone.
With that all said, I think recently there have been a lot of strong memorable characters like in Baldur's Gate 3, Like a Dragon Gaiden and Ifinite Wealth, and Honkai Star Rail. Honkai Star Rail is interesting because it seems to highlight people's wants for memorable characters and worlds and people form an attachment to the cast. It also helps that the worlds, characters, and lore constantly expand. There is a reason it is popular.
RoadHazard
Gold Member
Most of those are not from the last generation. And the only ones I recognize are the RE4 merchant and the SH girl.
KXVXII9X
Member
I've noticed this a lot in media in general. It is one reason I mostly stopped watching anime. I think Hayao Miyazaki made a quote like that and ever since I heard it, I recognized it more and more in modern stories. I don't always need completely original works, but I do care about the execution. I don't have a ton of life experience which is one reason I don't think I would be a great writer despite loving stories. I think She Hulk was the worst case of this. I never hated a show so much in my life. It reminds me of the kind of vapid writing of Velma, Saints Row and such.
Heimdall_Xtreme
Jim Ryan Fanclub's #1 Member
My most beloved girl
SSfox
Member
Hard disagree, but each their own I guess. Those are top notch and some the best characters design to me
When it comes to Anime style Honkai and Genshin are pretty solid ones
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
“Memorable characters”
Lists Rule of Rose that nobody but OP played.
Lists Rule of Rose that nobody but OP played.
Belthazar
Member
It seems like you just want to feel the same about characters you got to know as an adult as you do for the ones you've known since you were a child/teen... And that's not going to happen as you're at another point in life and nothing will ever feel the same. That's about you, not the characters being created.
There are plenty of memorable characters in horror games (and all genres). Just look at Resident Evil, with the Bakers and freaking Lady Dimitrescu if you want an example.
There are plenty of memorable characters in horror games (and all genres). Just look at Resident Evil, with the Bakers and freaking Lady Dimitrescu if you want an example.
Last edited:
F31 Leopard
Member
I miss these group of guys. They were the best. 
fart town usa
Gold Member
Itagaki tried with Devil's Third and the masses rejected it.
We brought it on ourselves and have to live with the consequences.
We brought it on ourselves and have to live with the consequences.
Sinfulgore
Member
It's not just characters but the stories aren't memorable either. The problem is that modern creators just aren't as good as the old creators. Almost everything made in the last few years just feels like content that only exists to make money. I still remember almost everything (and still rewatch the cutscenes on occasion) of Kingdom Hearts 1 & 2 but don't remember a single thing about Kingdom Hearts 3. Same with all these recent Final Fantasy games. It's a real shame.
CamHostage
Member
The old creators were in a thriving period of exploration and unique identity in fashion and design; there were some working in those times which will go down as the greatest of all time at character design, but they were also working at a time when competition was high, online ridicule/meme for bold choices was not as accessible (a weird character design now could ruin a product before it ever gets a chance to come out,) and fashion was more varied. There's not a lot of differences of fashion today if you walk out on the street, and that's reflected in the characters inhabiting products of today.
Also, generally, everything's now been done. Where can you find a culture like Harujuku that exploded into anime and games? What vintage era is left to rehash with a modern twist to reinvigorate fashion design? Is stuff like Ye's leather jogging pants really any style point to make a character more memorable? How many more buckles can you put on a FF character before buckles aren't cool anymore?
Sure, trends are different, and some current trends are pushing character design away from what fueled creative choices in the 90s/00s back when, at least in the OP's opinion, characters achieved memorability. Few AAA games try to break the mold because they're too expensive to fail, and design is an easy thing to toss shit at on the internet if it doesn't go over well.
I don't know if proportionally we have a greater number of "memorable characters" to unmemorable characters compared to other eras? Taste and range and production output has changed over the years, and in indie games there's a very different proportion of character designs which is difficult to quantify, but there are a heck of a lot of characters which all of us have long forgotten or don't think of right away when we thing of "memorable", even in hit games...
This meme will be 10 years old this June.
You're also highlighting an issue that games now tend to have more characters in them and also users can customize their character more readily. The Merchant in RE4 was "memorable" to the OP because that was one of the only other character who talked to you; games have since progressed in RPG'ish manner to add more and more characters, and few have the budget of say GTA (which has held up from the 00s to now with memorable characters, though the current GTA6 trailer has some of these issues you point to that photorealism makes personality difficult to embellish, thus only the Florida Joker has really popped from that first look) to really make every character you speak with stand out.
Sinfulgore
Member
I don't agree. Some developers specifically fighting game devs like Capcom have done an excellent job at creating new characters with their new games. Juri from Street Fighter 4 is awesome. And it's not just about the character's look, Tidus's look isn't what makes him memorable it's his story. I'm playing through FF 16 now and Clive's story is so boring and generic in comparison.
CamHostage
Member
Well, Juri was 15 years ago, but either way, there are always exceptions to somebody's rule, and people have different definitions of what's "memorable" as well as different memories of how memorable characters of their era would be. Agree that there are bold character design choices out there, that was one of my points in disagreeing with the OP over what a "memorable character" means and how it's not just lazy developers or whatever causing character design to not stick out as in year past. That said, whether bold characters penetrate into mainstream tastes is a different challenge than it was in generations past.
As far as FFX's hero being more memorable than FFXVI's, that may or may not be, but holding one product up against another (particularly one that was a zeitgeist release of a certain era in gaming and of your age/availability as a gamer, compared to a very different market value and cultural appeal for the the Final Fantasy franchise) over 20 years apart, and using those two products as evidence of a complete generational change, that's not really a conclusive analysis. I can name the main heroes of Final Fantasy 7,8 and 10 easily, but I can't off the top of my head remember anybody from 9 or 12 (I remember the 12 guy had a Michael Jackson nose...) so was there a vanguard change in character design in between each of those games or were some Final Fantasies just more successful than others? And I don't know if kids these days will one day have nostalgia for Clive the way that we do for Titus or whoever we liked when we were younger, but the means of consumption and the style of storytelling has changed; kids of the future won't be like we once were.
(Who is "memorable" and who is not in this mix?
Is there a difference-maker in how they achieved "memorability",
or did some just click at the time under the director's choices and others faltered?)
Last edited:
SlimeGooGoo
Party Gooper
All characters up to X are memorableWell, Juri was 15 years ago, but either way, there are always exceptions to somebody's rule, and people have different definitions of what's "memorable" as well as different memories of how memorable characters of their era would be. Agree that there are bold character design choices out there, that was one of my points in disagreeing with the OP over what a "memorable character" means and how it's not just lazy developers or whatever causing character design to not stick out as in year past. That said, whether bold characters penetrate into mainstream tastes is a different challenge than it was in generations past.
As far as FFX's hero being more memorable than FFXVI's, that may or may not be, but holding one product up against another (particularly one that was a zeitgeist release of a certain era in gaming and of your age/availability as a gamer, compared to a very different market value and cultural appeal for the the Final Fantasy franchise) over 20 years apart, and using those two products as evidence of a complete generational change, that's not really a conclusive analysis. I can name the main heroes of Final Fantasy 7,8 and 10 easily, but I can't off the top of my head remember anybody from 9 or 12 (I remember the 12 guy had a Michael Jackson nose...) so was there a vanguard change in character design in between each of those games or were some Final Fantasies just more successful than others? And I don't know if kids these days will one day have nostalgia for Clive the way that we do for Titus or whoever we liked when we were younger, but the means of consumption and the style of storytelling has changed; kids of the future won't be like we once were.
(Who is "memorable" and who is not in this mix?
Is there a difference-maker in how they achieved "memorability",
or did some just click at the time under the director's choices and others faltered?)
Everything that came after is not
The reason? Squeenix
All the good talent (i.e. Sakaguchi + Uematsu) left after the merger
12 development was a mess and Matsuno left mid-development.
13 was made by an weaboo with Lighting fetish
15 was made to salvage Versus 13, another development mess
16 was made by a dude that had no idea what FF was about, and made "Final Witcher of Thrones: Devil May Fantasy"
MagiusNecros
Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
Later FF's just have shit writing and lack of characters with dev time to flesh them out. 11(I think world building is more memorable then the characters IMO. The only memorable character that stands out is Shantotto) and 14(at least up to Endwalker where there was a huge shift in staff and writing) are great.
FF's problem is the old crew that made the franchise great is either gone, went elsewhere or no longer develop games.
FF's problem is the old crew that made the franchise great is either gone, went elsewhere or no longer develop games.
Sinfulgore
Member
Thats fair. I can't believe it's been 15 years since SSF 4, I never played 5 or 6 so I am not too familiar with the new characters in those games. The culture has changed a lot but at least for me it hasn't changed how I feel about games. I didn't love FF X because of all the attention it got when it was originally released, I love it because it was a great game and great games are memorable. I agree, that younger gamers are a lot different than us older gamers but I think that's why games are made the way they are today. This new generation of gamers grew up on TikTok and social media, this has taught them that entertainment is disposable. You watch a viral video, maybe share it with your friends then a week or two later you will never think about it ever again, that's how modern games feel to me. I'll play through FF 16 once like I did FF 15 and I will never think of it again.Well, Juri was 15 years ago, but either way, there are always exceptions to somebody's rule, and people have different definitions of what's "memorable" as well as different memories of how memorable characters of their era would be. Agree that there are bold character design choices out there, that was one of my points in disagreeing with the OP over what a "memorable character" means and how it's not just lazy developers or whatever causing character design to not stick out as in year past. That said, whether bold characters penetrate into mainstream tastes is a different challenge than it was in generations past.
As far as FFX's hero being more memorable than FFXVI's, that may or may not be, but holding one product up against another (particularly one that was a zeitgeist release of a certain era in gaming and of your age/availability as a gamer, compared to a very different market value and cultural appeal for the the Final Fantasy franchise) over 20 years apart, and using those two products as evidence of a complete generational change, that's not really a conclusive analysis. I can name the main heroes of Final Fantasy 7,8 and 10 easily, but I can't off the top of my head remember anybody from 9 or 12 (I remember the 12 guy had a Michael Jackson nose...) so was there a vanguard change in character design in between each of those games or were some Final Fantasies just more successful than others? And I don't know if kids these days will one day have nostalgia for Clive the way that we do for Titus or whoever we liked when we were younger, but the means of consumption and the style of storytelling has changed; kids of the future won't be like we once were.
(Who is "memorable" and who is not in this mix?
Is there a difference-maker in how they achieved "memorability",
or did some just click at the time under the director's choices and others faltered?)
In terms of main characters only the ones from 7, 8, X, 13 are memorable to me but do I still remember most of the plots, side characters and villains, and the music from the other games(up to 13). Final Fantasy 15 was the last Final Fantasy game I completed (not counting the FF VII remake), and the only thing I remember FF 15 is the main character's name. FF 15 was just boring to me but as a fan of the series I wanted to complete it. I loved the FF VII remake and even loved the Crisis Core remaster, the world of FF 7 is just so good.
As we speak of memorable characters. This is what peak anime character looks like.
Danjin44
The nicest person on this forum
freemandos
Neo Member
Thinking about survival horror games, if you don't mind pixel art, maybe Yuppie Psycho can please you.
