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[Sander Cohen]

I feel like GaaS games substituted MMOs. Apart from being widespread now, they’re much more accessible and don’t require monthly subscription which is a big barrier.

FF XIV is great for socializing and that feeling when you clear tough raid with your static but personally, I can’t stand those low-polly graphics and endless excruciating grind anymore. It’s not fun and feels like work (which it clearly tries to substitute so better stay away from it).

 

[Krappadizzle]

I just want a new City of Heroes dammit. Someone make that happen. Or use the Invincible license if you can't get CoH.

 

[Fbh]

I think a big factor is time commitment.
I've yet to see an MMO that really tries to distance itself from the "second job" stigma these games have. Between the slow progression, grind based design, monthly subscription, etc. They neglected the more casual audiences while other games and franchises thrived with them.

All big popular multiplayer games can be enjoyed in short(ish) bursts. Fortnite, COD, Rocket League, LOL, GTA Online, Destiny, etc.
If I have other shit going on and just have 30-60 minutes to play games on most days I can hop on to any of these games, play some matches or do some missions and casually enjoy the game.

In most MMO's I've tried it always feels like to accomplish anything I'll have to put in a ton of time. Then you add the subscription model making you feel like you are wasting money when not playing while all other big multiplayer games are way more accommodating for a more casual playstyle.

 

[MadAnon]

Because society has changed. Now it's all about instant gratification and short attention span. MMOs are polar opposite. At their peak they were massive grind fests requiring huge time investment. You have tons of people supporting paid boosts just to instantly get to the end game content because leveling is a boring grind.

 

[KungFucius]

Because they are set up in a way that makes it obvious they want you to grind for hours and hours each month for some tiny morsels of progress. That is unattractive to many gamers after they tried their first MMO and the total addressable market for other MMOs is reduced.

In other words they prioritize making the games a chore in hopes of people continuing to sub for fear of losing all the time they wasted but most people just don't want to waste time so they avoid them.

 

[Sejan]

MMOs cannibalize each other in a way that other games simply don't. It is virtually impossible for a single player to actively play more than one MMO as they require more time and money from players than other types of games. As such, players that are actually interested in MMOs flock to the games that their friends already play (such as WoW). This means that games that already have an established player base have a huge advantage over new games.

All of this comes together to make it is incredibly difficult for a new game to enter the market successfully. Due to the massively multiplayer aspect of these games, this means that anything less than a huge success is almost assuredly the first death knells of the server. The only MMO that I can think of that has come back from this is FFXIV) A lagging player base can be felt more in an MMO than any other genre.

In the end, MMOs are among the most expensive games to make and maintain over the lifespan of the game. Games with paid subscriptions have an additional barrier to entry over even the many that they already face. As such, many developers choose the free-to-play option for monetization. Again, this creates another problem. Games with a decent player base can get by with paid cosmetics and expansions (ESO), but games with a low player base are forced to become predatory to survive.


TL;DR
High devleopment costs and being a genre that discourages playing other games makes it far more difficult to find success as an MMO compared to almost any other genre.

 

[Furball]

Because Gacha Exist now . Cheaper to make and make more money , less resource to maintain

 

[JTCx]

Nice coincidence to see thi thread now that I'm looking for a MMO to play

Actally the only MMO that looks alive is ESO, WOW, or some Korean one, and it pisses me off... I'm thinking of going back to Age of Conan....

EDIT: actually there is a new coming soon that I will be playing MORTAL ONLINE 2, full loot full pvp. Can't wait.

Ff14 and guild wars 2 are also very much alive right behind WoW in playerbase. They also got expansions scheduled to release this year.

 

[niilokin]

Because the first MMO, Ultima Online, is the best game ever made and every subsequent one could only disappoint.

I still remember when my mom would finally get me UO (Renaissance came out) and it was so fucking weird seeing all those people making up a living world, a skill system where you had to USE them to become better instead of just leveling up, it was all about making money and surviving in a huge world without the shitty survival mechanics everything now has. that was true ROLEPLAYING game.

World of Warcraft was so good too, I continued to have some of my best WoW times when Classic released.

 

[LazyParrot]

It's an oversaturated market that's expensive and risky to get into, with a PC-focused playerbase that can be intensely loyal to their game of choice, often sticking with it for years or even decades. Getting these people to switch to a new game long-term is pretty tricky.

 

[supernova8]

When World of Warcraft came out in 2004, everyone was talking about how MMOs are gonna take over everything, how you will see massive MMOs on every console, and how every franchise will dip its toes into the genre, but that never happened.

Who is "everyone" exactly? I don't recall those discussions/articles ever existing.

MMOs have their place. It's like fighting games, they're not quite as popular as they used to be, but they still make enough money to be worthwhile making.

 

[Platinumstorm]

Mmos have turned into repetitive, time consuming, no progression subscriptions with lengthy time between content and little to no payout. To make it worse this is bundled together with a lack of community which is what fostered mmo dedication in the first place.

Ffxiv is the only mmo that delivers relevant non - expiring content with real substance behind it, semi fosters communities, and is also easy to allow the game to respect your time because the content tends to evergreen.

In wow I feel like I'm playing a cell phone game that timegates everything and I only have one way to play the game. The story is poorly conceived, only occasionally presented in wonderous ways, and feels like an abuse of my time.

The only reason I still have a wow sub is because I've been the guild leader of an active raiding guild since wow was released, and that's a feat I've had trouble letting go of. The beginning of the death of community started with wotlk. Guild members barely acknowledge each other any more, play together outside of raiding, and I don't even know most of my guildies, since I allowed the officers to basically manage the raiding and recruiting aspects of the guild since 2013.

 

[DeliciousDoc]

I think mmos are not for everyone. Once you have to deal with drama at the top of a server you never want to deal with that shit again. So basically the amount of people willing to play mmos goes down over time unless you remain casual. Remaining casual is difficult because since EQ, almost all mmos gate content behind killing stuff if you want to do anything else like crafting or running "a business". For example, the game won't let low level characters progress in crafting skills past a the maximum allowed for their level. This didn't exist in Ultima online. I think I killed less monsters in that game over 1 or 2 years than any 40 hour game I played.

 

[Marlenus]

I have just started playing star wars the old Republic and for the most part I can ignore the MMO stuff and play the story line quests. The biggest issue I have with it is how static the planet story arc missions are. You go through the arc but nothing seems to change all that much.

I still wish there was a KOTOR 3 instead but there is a lot of story content in TOR since each class has its own storyline.

 

[AV]

Myriad reasons. Too many for a NeoGAF post, so I'll try and boil down how I feel about it:

• Too many people seeking to replicate feelings they had in older MMOs, chasing a high they will never reach
• Too many people unwilling to adapt to newer style MMOs because they're unfamiliar, so will return to things like WoW
• Some games tried to be too similar to WoW and died on their feet because of it (Rift, Warhammer online)
• Things like WoW are borderline impenetrable to modern markets, Classic is too archaic and retail is a convoluted mess that isn't an RPG
• The concept of an MMO is no longer remotely novel, the world is far more connected than it was in the 90s and early 2000s
• By the same token, games have evolved, the term needs to evolve with it. Fortnite is in many ways an MMO regardless of the fact that there's not one persistent world

For me, the last two points are the biggest reasons. People will balk at my Fortnite comparison, but it's true - sure, there's not one persistent world (or several over several servers) but it's a massively multiplayer online game where dozens of people now go to just... hang out. I haven't heard a thing about the battle royale component of Fortnite in literally years. Know what I have heard about? The cool community events, things like virtual concerts being put on in the game world, stuff like that. It's the place kids go to hang out online with their friends via some representation of an avatar. That's exactly what I was doing in WoW and Runescape and others when I was their age.

 

[anthraticus]

Because they followed in the footsteps of crap like WoW, instead of stuff like Ultima Online or Asherons Call.

 

[BadBurger]

It seems like everyone that tried to follow in WoW's wake did so half-assed. Even Square Enix fell on their face at first, though their re-crafted Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn is arguably as good and feature rich as WoW, if not better in some ways IMO, and is still booming. I still get logon queues even on newer servers.

 

[dispensergoinup]

I actually just made the leap from WoW to FFXIV along with a few friends who played WoW with me.

Loving it so far, the community is great. Not sure I'll be going back to WoW even when 9.1 patch comes out.

But to answer the question, I think its just too much to ask people to play more than one MMO given the time commitment. Once you're in one, you're pretty much only playing that game.

I've tried juggling between WoW, ESO, and back in the day like AION, Guild Wars and Tera Online I think? Didn't really work out.

Before that, I was a huge Everquest fan.

 

[godhandiscen]

MMO’s are some of the first games as a service, so they started optimizing for revenue rather fun. I am confident they are the best at producing whatever feeling keeps someone subscribed and buying consumables, but that feeling is never “fun”.

 

[Mistake]

Single player MMO worlds like Xenoblade sell a lot, but I really wish we had more games like it with couch/local co-op instead of online only.

I don’t have any experience with WoW, but I know a lot of people who were. From what they told me, it suffered a lot from power creep and making classic missions obsolete, so old players burned out. The time sink and not knowing when things finish is what always kept me from playing

 

[ManaByte]

I just want a new City of Heroes dammit. Someone make that happen. Or use the Invincible license if you can't get CoH.

They did. Cryptic was making Marvel Online for Microsoft after City of Heroes, but MS decided they didn't want to be in the MMO game so they cancelled the game. Cryptic took the work they did on that, stripped the Marvel IP from it, and converted it into Champions Online.

 

[Jigsaah]

Greed has ruined most MMOs. The stigma of free-to-play models dictates that you will be monetized to death. That by itself deterred me from giving such a huge commitment. Fear of me being sucked into an addiction that cost real money made me stop playing games like Black Desert. I loved the gameplay, the crafting, the pvp...but the upgrade system made it akin to gambling except you never get anything of real world value back. you just sink your money into a hole that gives you some sense of convenience, though the reality is that there is always more grind to be had and that same money hole is ever-hungry.

Korean based MMO's are absolutely the worst with this. I'll stick to FFXIV and pay my 12 bucks a month when I aim to play for a stint.

 

[Arimer]

My opinion since playing MMO's ever since UO and EQ is that they grew beyond what they were supposed to be. What made MMO's incredible back in the day is the community you found and the people you played with. When wow came out we hit this new phase of MMO that I would term the single player MMO. In EQ you could do nothing alone at a point but now in MMO's you literally log in, play a single player game until you hit a dungeon, then you queue and you run a dungeon with people you don't talk to. ETC . It's forgettable stuff you burn through on your way to end game.

MMO's need to be challenging again and built around community interactivity and face the facts its a niche appeal market.

 

[Faithless83]

Phantasy Star Online 2 and PSO New Genesis. Both F2P and not P2W. More action oriented and a lot faster than Monster Hunter (for those who thought it was a turn off)
PSO2 is old AF but the combat is still a lot of fun, when New Genesis release later this year it will be awesome.

 

[Krappadizzle]

They did. Cryptic was making Marvel Online for Microsoft after City of Heroes, but MS decided they didn't want to be in the MMO game so they cancelled the game. Cryptic took the work they did on that, stripped the Marvel IP from it, and converted it into Champions Online.

Yeah, but Champions Online sucks. I actually bought a lifetime sub for Champions Online before it came out..... It was ok at first, but not nearly as well done as City of Heroes.

 

[EverydayBeast]

FF is probably the best mmo on consoles.

 

[Corgi1985]

Because star wars galaxies was the best one (until they fucked it up) so there was no point in anyone else trying.

 

[johntown]

I don't really care for MMO's just because they are typically shallow and repetitive games that you really can never win.......I like to win. I'm sure they appeal to many people and I have no issue with them but after trying a few I can say they are not for me.

I really don't see the appeal of doing the same thing over and over and over again for some gear or something else.

 

[Keihart]

i think it just makes sense. At the time of wow, everyone though that it was a easy and quick buck and most of those games crashed and burned.
MMOs rpg can still be really successful, it's just that it's not something easy to do in the MMORPG format, you need quite a budget and investment compared to something like a battle royal or a MOBA and design wise it's not easy either since run escape and WOW's templates have being exploited to death already.

They could comback really hard someday if VR becomes mainstream, just look at the success of something like VR chat, it would make the social aspect of the genre way more relevant.

 

[Pejo]

MMOs stopped being successful when they sprinted everyone towards endgame to get people on the gear treadmill ASAP. The social aspect of the games also took a hit when it became a genre for memorizing patterns and managing global cooldowns etc. FFXI is still the only MMO that did it right, IMO. By having a slower paced combat system, you had a chance to actually chat with the people you were playing with. Also, the progression itself was slower and there was a greater variety of content and gear that wasn't governed entirely by your character level and item levels. Also, the fact that the world had real danger in it, and there was a penalty for death, it actually added quite a bit of gravity to your actions (and frustration sometimes admittedly).

It was a once-in-a-lifetime experience, and I'm glad I got to play it when it was in its prime. I still keep in touch with friends I made playing that game.

FFXIV and WoW are just amusement park endgame grind-a-thons with no soul and a heavy reliance on cutscenes and nostalgia to keep people playing. It's completely hollow.

There used to be some other MMOs that tried new things, but the casuals spoke, and so now all we have is FFXIV/WoW/some grindy Korean MMOs.

 

[swaffles23]

Because the first MMO, Ultima Online, is the best game ever made and every subsequent one could only disappoint.

I agree. I've been playing UO off and on for the past 20 years and it's still the greatest mmo. There is nothing like it

 

[JeremyEtcetera]

It's simple, people realized that MMOs are just another genre like everything else. And every genre has it's trappings. They didn't die or become a dud, their sales numbers just eventually dipped back down to match everything else.

The same is currently going on with BRs. There are a few at the top(similar to WoW, Guild Wars, FFXI, Lineage 2, etc except with BRs it's Fortnite, CoD, PubG) and the rest are performing as expected with some surprises here and there. BRs will most likely age faster though because they don't have a quest system and endgame.

 

[BigBooper]

I don't know about calling them a dud when World of Warcraft was a huge cash cow and probably the most popular game for over a decade, but that was before loot boxes, when MMOs were making bank of subscriptions. I think it's just a long term investment, that requires a lot of money, and it's not guaranteed that it will be well liked. It's kind of a risky bet.

 

[8bitpill]

I will never forget how excited I was when FFXI was announced for the PS2.

It was my first year in college and my first MMO. I remember leaving class early that day just to pick it up and install it so I could have it all set for the weekend.

I spent way to many hours playing that game over the course of about two years but have great memories while playing it.

When FFXIV was announced I was excited to have my friends and wife start it up, but as most of you know before the realm was reborn, the game was pretty empty.

Fast forward to 2013 when the Realm was Reborn, my wife, two friends and myself all started to play it again. It was fun at first but attraction died out pretty quickly.

I hope a quality MMO comes along like FFXI did almost twenty years ago now. I have a daughter that is just getting into video games and I would love to play a in depth MMO with her one day.

 

[Starbuck2907]

Huge dev costs lead to little innovation and low risk taking which is why you still have WoW gameplay in “new” mmo’s. Some have put a cool spin in it, but stuff like Destiny 2 or ARK or Rust have kinda taken the MMO market and transformed it into something different, but slightly similar.

 

[Valonquar]

Basically the devs that worked on MMOs all realized it was way easier and more profitable to sell gatcha content to weebs that play phone games.

 

[OsirisBlack]

I will never forget how excited I was when FFXI was announced for the PS2.

It was my first year in college and my first MMO. I remember leaving class early that day just to pick it up and install it so I could have it all set for the weekend.

I spent way to many hours playing that game over the course of about two years but have great memories while playing it.

When FFXIV was announced I was excited to have my friends and wife start it up, but as most of you know before the realm was reborn, the game was pretty empty.

Fast forward to 2013 when the Realm was Reborn, my wife, two friends and myself all started to play it again. It was fun at first but attraction died out pretty quickly.

I hope a quality MMO comes along like FFXI did almost twenty years ago now. I have a daughter that is just getting into video games and I would love to play a in depth MMO with her one day.

Final fantasy XIV is a much better game than FFXI it is also very different. FFXI was my favorite mmo of all time because of how grindy it was and the fact that it is still to this date the only mmo where certain gear was actually relatively exclusive. Instead of seeing every single player with the best gear on in the game. Pld had one of the first NA Aegis Excalibur paladins full Koenig then Valhalla I remember fighting other LS for Hauteclaire claim that was epic shit but somewhere along the line the companies decided to make everything obtainable to everyone. I think the spirit of competition has been lost in current mmos but I still enjoy them. The nostalgia of FFXI will never be trumped but give Black desert online a try it’s also pretty grind heavy. Working on my awakened sage right now as an aside the story in FFXIV has become the stuff of legend check out heavens ward and shadow bringers. You won’t regret it.

 

[Fare thee well]

After all my friends tried to drag me into BDO from our last mmo, all I can say is, screw that time wasting, grinding, gear-carried nonsense. If MMORPGs are going to be like that now, I'd rather the genre just die entirely. This new culture that wants a second tedious job as a game... I'll never understand.

Could a powerful dedicated group create a fun, engaging, non-grindy mmo? Hell yes, but the same people that spread the 'single player games are dead' or 'pc gaming is dying' propoganda are out parading on their horse again about mmo's.

 

[Zannegan]

IMO, because they all rushed to adopt an "engagement model" focused on maintaining huge populations and getting them hooked on playing a certain number of hours every day. When your game is like a second job and the core gameplay isn't that fun anyway, you've only got fomo to keep people going.

They seemed poised for a big resurgence with action MMOs like Destiny, Anthem, etc., but they decided to make their worlds even smaller and grindier with even less reward than traditional MMOs.

My dream MMO would be structured more like Guild Wars 1, where everyone has their own instance of the game except in hubs, with fast, direct gameplay like Destiny's rather than the autoattack/cooldown manager most MMOs use.

Realistically though, I don't think a company needs to change that much to have a big MMO hit on their hands. People are seeking connection more and more in the age of quarantines/lockdowns, so an MMO that's new and exciting could be a good way for them to virtually hang out with their friends. Hell, WoW could even make a big comeback with the mainstream.

An MMO on accessible VR hardware could change the game in terms of immersion and sense of connection too.

 

[Kumomeme]

Playstation Home needs a return. They might increase PS engagement through the casual players.

Will Playstation Home with Discord integration make sense?

too bad some mmo player didnt want relax and enjoyment. these people didnt want casual stuff. they want high end content, harder is better and these could give birth to toxicity. current trend of mmo nowdays more about end game high end content, than pve, or anything else before that. ofcourse these stuff depend on each mmo community.

 

[xellos2099alpha]

MMOs stopped being successful when they sprinted everyone towards endgame to get people on the gear treadmill ASAP. The social aspect of the games also took a hit when it became a genre for memorizing patterns and managing global cooldowns etc. FFXI is still the only MMO that did it right, IMO. By having a slower paced combat system, you had a chance to actually chat with the people you were playing with. Also, the progression itself was slower and there was a greater variety of content and gear that wasn't governed entirely by your character level and item levels. Also, the fact that the world had real danger in it, and there was a penalty for death, it actually added quite a bit of gravity to your actions (and frustration sometimes admittedly).

It was a once-in-a-lifetime experience, and I'm glad I got to play it when it was in its prime. I still keep in touch with friends I made playing that game.

FFXIV and WoW are just amusement park endgame grind-a-thons with no soul and a heavy reliance on cutscenes and nostalgia to keep people playing. It's completely hollow.

There used to be some other MMOs that tried new things, but the casuals spoke, and so now all we have is FFXIV/WoW/some grindy Korean MMOs.

Thing is, XI have ZERO respect for player time. People remember the good time but forget all the bullshit in the game too. Unless you were tank healer or a bard, you can spend an entire evening sitting over at port Jueno, Crawler nest or GC and don't get a single exp pt. Remember how much BS was the video they release for the "hint" to beat Absolute Virute? COP also block access to new areaunless you kill some pretty hard bosses like omega and ultima.

 

[Sygma]

IMO, because they all rushed to adopt an "engagement model" focused on maintaining huge populations and getting them hooked on playing a certain number of hours every day. When your game is like a second job and the core gameplay isn't that fun anyway, you've only got fomo to keep people going.

They seemed poised for a big resurgence with action MMOs like Destiny, Anthem, etc., but they decided to make their worlds even smaller and grindier with even less reward than traditional MMOs.

My dream MMO would be structured more like Guild Wars 1, where everyone has their own instance of the game except in hubs, with fast, direct gameplay like Destiny's rather than the autoattack/cooldown manager most MMOs use.

Realistically though, I don't think a company needs to change that much to have a big MMO hit on their hands. People are seeking connection more and more in the age of quarantines/lockdowns, so an MMO that's new and exciting could be a good way for them to virtually hang out with their friends. Hell, WoW could even make a big comeback with the mainstream.

An MMO on accessible VR hardware could change the game in terms of immersion and sense of connection too.

Guild wars 1 never was a mmo tho, and your dream mmo already exists in that sense : it's called phantasy star online.

I think lost ark could be big but the problem is that the 2.0 update turned it into BDO in terms of gear upgrade system when it.comes down to the endgame pve systems. Also I had a thought, most of the guilds / crowds attracted by the community oriented and sandbox designed mmos, including the hardcore pvpers of games such as shadowbane / mortal online etc basically got Ark / Conan exiles / Rust etc

The foundations of immergent gameplay found in these past titles are still very much in these kind of games nowadays. Crowfall and Everquest Next were supposed to be the next big thing, as well as star citizen but only one of these three has an actually playable state. Ashes of creation looked like something for people who enjoyed ff XI / Ultima but yeah its all so slow to come out


Oh yeah division 1 and 2 also have the same structure than guild wars / pso

 

[8bitpill]

Final fantasy XIV is a much better game than FFXI it is also very different. FFXI was my favorite mmo of all time because of how grindy it was and the fact that it is still to this date the only mmo where certain gear was actually relatively exclusive. Instead of seeing every single player with the best gear on in the game. Pld had one of the first NA Aegis Excalibur paladins full Koenig then Valhalla I remember fighting other LS for Hauteclaire claim that was epic shit but somewhere along the line the companies decided to make everything obtainable to everyone. I think the spirit of competition has been lost in current mmos but I still enjoy them. The nostalgia of FFXI will never be trumped but give Black desert online a try it’s also pretty grind heavy. Working on my awakened sage right now as an aside the story in FFXIV has become the stuff of legend check out heavens ward and shadow bringers. You won’t regret it.

I liked FFXIV after the Realm Reborn came out, I just didn't have the time to devote to it. Plus two of my friends pretty much fell off of the party .

I've read and heard good things about it since then. I'm familiar with how good it has become over all these years.

As for FFXI, nostalgia is what makes a lasting impression for me. Being the first and only MMO I devoted time to.

I remember when my friend back in 2015 sent me a video from Black Desert before it was ever released here in the states and it peaked my interest then.

I do want to get back into a MMO but finding a time isn't easy now and days. Between running my own company and having a daughter, single player games are where it's at now and days.

 

[LectureMaster]

GaaS is essentially the transformation of MMOs, especially those shared world games.

 

[Hendrick's]

WoW killed MMOs.

Everquest, which was far ahead of its time in concept and revolutionary in its gameplay, started to gain popularity. Though it was beloved by many, it was also hard and unforgiving. While this led to some amazing and rewarding emergent gameplay, it was never going to appeal to the masses.

In comes Blizzard.

A company whose greatest skill has always been stealing others ideas and repackaging them into highly marketable and accessible yet watered down versions of their source material.

Blizzard continued to dumb down WoW until they captured the unwashed masses attention and started raking in mass amounts of money.

As a juggernaut was born, a genre died.

Ever since WoW, every MMO wants to make WoW money. So instead of trying to take the genre further, we keep getting the same tired formula in every MMO.

 

[Pantz]

A couple I have my eyes on:
Ashes of Creation
Pantheon Rise of the Fallen

I wonder if a MMO designed specifically for Game Pass couldn't do well? One designed with the need to cooperate with other players again. I feel like there's potential to capture the magic again, someone just needs to put together the right elements and get the backing to complete the vision.

 

[Havoc2049]

MMO's past WoW were all trying to emulate WoW, the ones that have survived are ones of established IP's (FF XiV, ESO and Star Wars) or are older than WoW with a big fanbase (like Runscape) these days we're sold more MMO-lite experiences like Destiny, Fallout 76 and the like, smaller, more focused efforts that can make money quicker than WoW does

Ya, the MMORPG morphed/expanded to include other genres, with MMORPG elements. In a way, MMO games are more popular than ever. You have games like Destiny, Elite Dangerous, Sea of Thieves, etc.

 

[TheContact]

Ive been playing mmos since I was 12 or 13. I started with ultima online and the experiences I had in that game, for better or worse, still define me today. I never got into EQ but I played a ton of DAoC. After that on day1 I went to WoW. I know the history of mmos but I’m certainly not someone who was gaming on compuserv and, without writing a long winded post on why there aren’t multiple top tier contender to mmos compared to FPS is because of a lot of backend stuff like financing and producing and futures, Wow and ffxiv dominates mmos and there isn’t a lot of incentive for companies to invest in that when they see more profit from other safer and easier models like f2p fps and such. If anyone’s familiar with car tech it’s the same way that , while minivans (MMOs) are great, no one is really buying them so all the r&d is going into SUVs (f2p FPS and so on)

 

[Zannegan]

Guild wars 1 never was a mmo tho, and your dream mmo already exists in that sense : it's called phantasy star online.

I think lost ark could be big but the problem is that the 2.0 update turned it into BDO in terms of gear upgrade system when it.comes down to the endgame pve systems. Also I had a thought, most of the guilds / crowds attracted by the community oriented and sandbox designed mmos, including the hardcore pvpers of games such as shadowbane / mortal online etc basically got Ark / Conan exiles / Rust etc

The foundations of immergent gameplay found in these past titles are still very much in these kind of games nowadays. Crowfall and Everquest Next were supposed to be the next big thing, as well as star citizen but only one of these three has an actually playable state. Ashes of creation looked like something for people who enjoyed ff XI / Ultima but yeah its all so slow to come out


Oh yeah division 1 and 2 also have the same structure than guild wars / pso

GW1 not an MMO? Shows what I know. So, for something to technically be an MMO you have to be able to run into people in the overworld, not just in hubs/instances?

I've never even considered Phantasy Star, so thanks for the rec. The Division's gunplay/movement just didn't seem like my cup of tea. I should probably give both series a try though, maybe when the Division 3 drops.

 

[Shouta]

It's just a different gaming landscape than it used to be. There's more casual people playing with lower attention spans and lots more content to be consumed. So there's a lot of competition that's way more attractive to people. The time investment required to play any sort of MMO, even the most casual friendly one, is way too high for most people now too.

Then there's the fact that most play like WoW or to a lesser extent top-down (looking at Korean games) with little difference between them and it feels largely the same hamster wheel. There's very little outside of those two styles nowadays that are actually really good. It's like FFXI and DQX are the only ones that play differently but both are old now.

It'd take a really big paradigm shift and a genre-defining game to make them as popular as they were once, relative to the size of the market.