Support NeoGAF

[BluRayHiDef]

User @Kenpachii raised a very interesting point about the VRAM requirements of games that will be developed for Xbox Series X and PlayStation 5.


Kenpachii stated that because Xbox Series X allocates 10GB of GDDR6 to its GPU and PlayStation 5 can allocate as much of its GDDR6 as is necessary to attain parity, PC will have to allocate more than 10GB of VRAM for ports of games developed for XSX and PS5 when running said games at higher graphical settings (e.g. Very High, Ultra) than the settings with which XSX and PS5 run them.


You can see @Kenpachii's post here.


Hence, I'm wondering how soon this will become the case. For example, upcoming games that will be released on XSX and PS5 include Watch Dogs: Legion and Assassin's Creed: Valhalla; even though these games will be available on current-generation consoles, the versions that will run on XSX and PS5 will certainly be heavily taxing the next-generation consoles' hardware since Ubisoft has decided to cap them at 30 frames per second in order to attain satisfactory graphical quality. If these titles weren't demanding on XSX and PS5, then they wouldn't be capped at 30 frames per second.


Subsequently, do you think that these titles are using the entirety of the 10GB of GGDR6 that's allocated to XSX's GPU and the corresponding amount of VRAM that's allocated to PS5's GPU? If so, then do you think that these titles will require more than 10GB of VRAM on PC for higher graphical settings relative to the settings at which they run on XSX and PS5?


Hence, will GPUs such as the RTX 2080Ti and RTX 3080 be enough to run them at 4K with Very High or Ultra settings since they each have only 10GB of VRAM? Will the 24GB of GDDR6X that the RTX 3090 possesses prove to be necessary for enthusiast-level PC gaming?

___________________________

EDIT:

Looks like 10GB won't be enough for 4K-Ultra in the upcoming Watchdogs: Legion.

4K / Ultra Settings

• CPU: Intel Core i7-9700K / AMD Ryzen 7 3700X
• GPU: NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2080 Ti or AMD Radeon VII
• VRAM: 11 GB
• RAM: 16 GB (Dual-channel setup)
• Storage Space: 45 GB (+ 20 GB HD Textures Pack)
• Operating System: Windows 10 (x64)

Watch Dogs: Legion PC Specs Revealed

[UPDATED] Learn more about the array of display and performance options and what you need to run the game on Ultra settings.

news.ubisoft.com

 

[Tumle]

Does it matter, sinde both Can empty and fill the ram up with in seconds?

 

[Kuranghi]

Its funny, with PC gaming I will troubleshoot a frame-pacing issue for literal hours and email devs and go on a million forums trying to fix it. I have played the Exo One: Prologue demo for 5 hours according to Steam and about 45-60 minutes of that was spent playing the game lol. The rest was trying to troubleshoot the usual Unity Engine stuttering/assy-vsync bullshit and thats how long it took me to give up on fixing it.

With consoles I really couldn't gaf about stuff like this, I just care about the end result, like how Uncharted: Lost Legacy looks for me right now. Sure there is a frame drop/stutter when you bomb down all the waterfalls (layering alpha ftw) in the jeep but who cares it looks fucking great and I wouldn't want it to be locked 30 instead of 28/29 fps but look like every other game to get there.

No offence meant to OP but I really don't care for some reason when it comes to consoles. Probably because the point is plug and play without hassle. I'll let the devs do their best and if something is too egregious then I'll not play it, but thats never happened and I've played Shadow of the Colossus on PS2. The gameplay/experience outshone the low fps. I'm guessing a TON of people still enjoyed AC: Unity on PS4 even though it ran at sub-15fps in certain crowds/missions at launch.

If you care about this stuff with console gaming then you are doing it wrong. What if there IS a problem with the HW? The devs are just fucked and will have to work around it for 7 years, you can't just swap out the parts like on PC.

So I don't really want to know the answer to this question tbh haha.

edit - I do understand that this is more about whether you should purchase it in the first place but general consumers don't want to have to delve into anything near this complicated to find out. So its irrelevant really if you are talking about a "budget" console like XSS.

 

[diffusionx]

The PS5 has 825GB of RAM though.

 

[RoboFu]

umm no because every dev will develop for the hardware spec. lol

but there are also new techologies that reduce texure load and stream more texures faster than before so the limits are little bit different this go round. Like you do not need every mipmap for a texture stored in ram at all times.

 

[acm2000]

its a console, the devs will tailor everything to fixed specs......

 

[GymWolf]

People think that 10 gb on pc are enough so maybe 13-14 with even more optimization are gonna be okay for 3-4 years until ps5 pro and sex without condom are gonna come out.

They sure are gonna be enough for sony if jimbo decide to make every big game a fucking crossgen...

 

[Codes 208]

I’ll never understand why people need to put a poll in a question that doesn’t really need it.

that said, no I don’t believe they will at launch. Higher ram on a pc is practically a necessity but only because PC’s do so much background work besides for gaming, consoles are gaming devices so they don’t need that level of processing power.

 

[Skifi28]

The memory is shared, there's nothing to max out other than the total amount. Each developer will decide how best to split it between main memory and VRAM.

 

[Night.Ninja]

The PS5 has 825GB of RAM though.

No your wrong it's a 825GPU

 

[vaibhavpisal]

Ram will always be full. In well optimised games, it will have usefull stuff. In poorly optimised games, it will have random shite.

 

[PSbigfan]

No your wrong it's a 825GPU

Excuse me it is 825 teraflops

 

[Shmunter]

Consoles will be on top this gen for a significant period

 

[Sw0pDiller]

Do we know how much each console has reserved for games?

 

[BluRayHiDef]

I’ll never understand why people need to put a poll in a question that doesn’t really need it.

that said, no I don’t believe they will at launch. Higher ram on a pc is practically a necessity but only because PC’s do so much background work besides for gaming, consoles are gaming devices so they don’t need that level of processing power.

Since you don't believe that launch games will max out 10GB of VRAM, then why do you suppose that they have to be capped at 30 frames per second? If launch games don't require 10GB of VRAM, then they should be easy for XSX and PS5 to render, which means that they shouldn't have to be capped at 30 frames per second, right?

 

[BluRayHiDef]

Do we know how much each console has reserved for games?

13.5GB for XSX, with 10GB @ 560GB/s and 3.5GB @ 336GB/s. For PlayStation 5, it's however much remains of its 16GB of GDDR6 apart from whatever is allocated to the OS and other non-gaming processes.

 

[ethomaz]

Even at late of the gen some games wont use all the RAM.
It depends case by case.

 

[Amaranty]

Since you don't believe that launch games will max out 10GB of VRAM, then why do you suppose that they have to be capped at 30 frames per second? If launch games don't require 10GB of VRAM, then they should be easy for XSX and PS5 to render, which means that they shouldn't have to be capped at 30 frames per second, right?

Wasn't there an update that AC Valhalla will offer 60 fps option?

 

[BluRayHiDef]

Even at late of the gen some games wont use all the RAM.
It depends case by case.

What about Watchdogs: Legion and Assassin's Creed: Valhalla? They'll both be capped at 30 frames per second at 4K, which implies that both games max out the capabilities of both consoles, including the memory that's allocated to each console's GPU.

 

[BluRayHiDef]

Wasn't there an update that AC Valhalla will offer 60 fps option?

Perhaps it will run at 60fps with reduced graphical settings relative to graphical settings at 30fps?

 

[Pagusas]

Consoles will be on top this gen for a significant period

Sarcasm?

 

[Amaranty]

Perhaps it will run at 60fps with reduced graphical settings relative to graphical settings at 30fps?

Probably but I figure AC Valhalla won't be the most optimized game on an early next gen console. Even with next gen consoles native 4K resolution is incredibly taxing, add RT on top of that and 60 fps will be quite difficult to achieve.

 

[DJT123]

Nice thoughtful poll. At launch, with games like AC, imo.

 

[BluRayHiDef]

So, how much VRAM do you think the PC version will require for settings higher than those of the console versions?

 

[ethomaz]

What about Watchdogs: Legion and Assassin's Creed: Valhalla? They'll both be capped at 30 frames per second at 4K, which implies that both games max out the capabilities of both consoles, including the memory that's allocated to each console's GPU.

We need dubug/profiling tools to check if RAM is being all used.
A game running at 4k and 30fps won't means it is using the full capabilities of the hardware.

 

[DJT123]

Sarcasm?

Clever dude, but I have to think him & the likes of Bryan go on a troll at times.

 

[Trogdor1123]

People think that 10 gb on pc are enough so maybe 13-14 with even more optimization are gonna be okay for 3-4 years until ps5 pro and sex without condom are gonna out.

They sure are gonna be enough for sony if jimbo decide to make every big game a fucking crossgen...

... What?

 

[BluRayHiDef]

We need dubug/profiling tools to check if RAM is being all used.
A game running at 4k and 30fps won't means it is using the full capabilities of the hardware.

What if the game is running at 4K and 30fps because that's the best performance that the developers could get out of the hardware? That seems to be the case with these upcoming Ubisoft games.

 

[GymWolf]

... What?

Are you confused by the funny name of sex refresh or by jimbo crossgen strategy? (Or just my shitty english?!)

 

[GymWolf]

The PS5 has 825GB of RAM though.

Underrated post.

 

[ethomaz]

What if the game is running at 4K and 30fps because that's the best performance that the developers could get out of the hardware? That seems to be the case with these upcoming Ubisoft games.

Best performance is relative you can always optimize more to get better performance... so you need time... you can say they got the best performance in the time to the launch.

Plus SDK, tools, OS, etc all become better and more optimized... so you can get even more performance from the hardware.

I have a hard time to believe any game launching in the first 2-3 years of the console will take 90% of the hardware's power.

 

[Trogdor1123]

Are you confused by the funny name of sex refresh or by jimbo crossgen strategy? (Or just my shitty english?!)

I think the wording. It was, unique.

 

[BluRayHiDef]

We need dubug/profiling tools to check if RAM is being all used.
A game running at 4k and 30fps won't means it is using the full capabilities of the hardware.

So, how soon do you think that PC games, particularly ports of XSX and PS5 games, at 4K with Very High or Ultra settings will need more than 10GB of VRAM?

 

[GymWolf]

I think the wording. It was, unique.

Well at least unique is better than illiterate i guess

 

[ethomaz]

Just a little correction.

Assassin's Creed: Valhalla is running at 4k 60fps... not 30fps on PS5.

 

[BluRayHiDef]

Just a little correction.

Assassin's Creed: Valhalla is running at 4k 60fps... not 30fps on PS5.

Didn't Ubisoft reveal that only XSX will run it at 60fps but remained silent about PS5?

 

[Codes 208]

Since you don't believe that launch games will max out 10GB of VRAM, then why do you suppose that they have to be capped at 30 frames per second? If launch games don't require 10GB of VRAM, then they should be easy for XSX and PS5 to render, which means that they shouldn't have to be capped at 30 frames per second, right?

Limitations with the cpu itself is often a bottleneck as well as the general usage of power. (Devs choosing higher resolutions and eye candy over performance)

 

[ethomaz]

Didn't Ubisoft reveal that only XSX will run it at 60fps but remained silent about PS5?

I believe both will be 4k 60fps confirmed by Ubisoft, no?

 

[ethomaz]

So, how soon do you think that PC games, particularly ports of XSX and PS5 games, at 4K with Very High or Ultra settings will need more than 10GB of VRAM?

PC needs more RAM than consoles... not because it will use more RAM but it has 2 different pools of memory so it have duplicated data in both pools where in console you just need the data to be in a single place to be accessed by CPU and GPU.

Said that and looking some benchmarks of one of the latest big releases it needs less than 8GB VRAM but over 16GB SystemRAM.... total minimum 24GB combined for 1440p.
Minimum because It reaches 22GB SystemRAM use at peak... so combined with 8GB VRAM being used... 30GB.



You can see the framerate was a bit better with a 32GB + 8GB system than 16GB + 8GB system... some 3-4 fps better.

 

[BluRayHiDef]

Just a little correction.

Assassin's Creed: Valhalla is running at 4k 60fps... not 30fps on PS5.

I'm well aware that PC needs both system and video RAM. However, I'm speaking strictly about VRAM, specifically about 10GB of VRAM, because 10GB is the amount of VRAM that is allocated to XSX's GPU; the XSX has a total of 16GB of GDDR6, but 10GB of it is specifically for its GPU. Hence, I'm thinking that PC graphics cards need 10GB of VRAM in order to run games that run on XSX with the same graphical quality and that PC graphics cards need more than 10GB of VRAM to run said games at higher settings than XSX.

 

[Schmick]

Are you trying to justify buying a RTX3090?

 

[BluRayHiDef]

Are you trying to justify buying a RTX3090?

I don't need justification. I'm just curious.

 

[ethomaz]

I'm well aware that PC needs both system and video RAM. However, I'm speaking strictly about VRAM, specifically about 10GB of VRAM, because 10GB is the amount of VRAM that is allocated to XSX's GPU; the XSX has a total of 16GB of GDDR6, but 10GB of it is specifically for its GPU. Hence, I'm thinking that PC graphics cards need 10GB of VRAM in order to run games that run on XSX with the same graphical quality and that PC graphics cards need more than 10GB of VRAM to run said games at higher settings than XSX.

Series X doesn't have 10GB for VRAM... it is shared for CPU and GPU that is why they call it Game RAM.
That is why is hard to compare with PC.

Series X has about 13GB of Game RAM where 10GB is accessed at full speeds and 3GB at lower speeds.

There is no RAM directly allocated to GPU.
It is a advice that devs tries to use the 3GB slower RAM for less critical tasks.

This generation of console is very capped of RAM... PC will have a big advantage in that regard... 16GB is barely a up from last gen so they are trying to create tricks to avoid issues with the low RAM.

PC will probably push for 32GB systems with 16-14GB GPUs.
Gigabyte already hinted at 3070S 16GB and 3080S 20GB.

 

[Mokus]

Do we know how much each console has reserved for games?

For the Playstation 5 it's rumored that for the OS it's reserved 2 GB of RAM.

 

[BluRayHiDef]

Series X doesn't have 10GB for VRAM... it is shared for CPU and GPU that is why they call it Game RAM.
That is why is hard to compare with PC.

Series X has about 13GB of Game RAM where 10GB is accessed at full speeds and 3GB at lower speeds.

There is no RAM directly allocated to GPU.
It is a advice that devs tries to use the 3GB slower RAM for less critical tasks.

The 10GB of GDDR6 that runs at 560GB/s is specifically for the GPU; it's literally called "GPU optimized memory."

Xbox Series X includes the highest memory bandwidth of any next generation console with 16GB of GDDR6 memory, including 10GB of GPU optimized memory at 560 GB/s to keep the processor fed with no bottlenecks.

Xbox Velocity Architecture: A Closer Look at the Next-Gen Tech Driving Gaming Innovation Forward on Xbox Series X - Xbox Wire

When we set out to design the Xbox Series X, we aspired to build our most powerful console ever powered by next generation innovation and delivering consistent, sustained performance never before seen in a console with no compromises. To achieve this goal, we knew we needed to analyze each...

news.xbox.com

.

 

[ethomaz]

The 10GB of GDDR6 that runs at 560GB/s is specifically for the GPU; it's literally called "GPU optimized memory."

Xbox Velocity Architecture: A Closer Look at the Next-Gen Tech Driving Gaming Innovation Forward on Xbox Series X - Xbox Wire

When we set out to design the Xbox Series X, we aspired to build our most powerful console ever powered by next generation innovation and delivering consistent, sustained performance never before seen in a console with no compromises. To achieve this goal, we knew we needed to analyze each...

news.xbox.com

.

PR guy.

It is not allocated to GPU... it allocated to both... it is hUMA after all.
The advice for devs is to use the 3GB slower RAM for non-critical tasks.

He says it is optimized for GPU because it is the only part of the RAM that can feed up critical GPU tasks... if you use his words PS5 has like 13GB GPU optimize memory lol

 

[BluRayHiDef]

PR guy.

It is not allocated to GPU... it allocated to both... it is hUMA after all.
The advice for devs is to use the 3GB slower RAM for non-critical tasks.

He says it is optimized for GPU because it is the only part of the RAM that can feed up critical GPU tasks... if you use his works PS5 has like 13GB GPU optimize memory lol

Alright, I guess.

 

[BluRayHiDef]

Looks like 10GB won't be enough for 4K-Ultra in the upcoming Watchdogs: Legion.

4K / Ultra Settings

• CPU: Intel Core i7-9700K / AMD Ryzen 7 3700X
• GPU: NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2080 Ti or AMD Radeon VII
• VRAM: 11 GB
• RAM: 16 GB (Dual-channel setup)
• Storage Space: 45 GB (+ 20 GB HD Textures Pack)
• Operating System: Windows 10 (x64)

Watch Dogs: Legion PC Specs Revealed

[UPDATED] Learn more about the array of display and performance options and what you need to run the game on Ultra settings.

news.ubisoft.com

 

[Shmunter]

Sarcasm?

Not at all, can’t argue with physical ram size. Consoles further standardises a new baseline in secondary storage to fill and change that ram. PC needs to catchup to that high watermark.

 

[VFXVeteran]

User @Kenpachii raised a very interesting point about the VRAM requirements of games that will be developed for Xbox Series X and PlayStation 5.


Kenpachii stated that because Xbox Series X allocates 10GB of GDDR6 to its GPU and PlayStation 5 can allocate as much of its GDDR6 as is necessary to attain parity, PC will have to allocate more than 10GB of VRAM for ports of games developed for XSX and PS5 when running said games at higher graphical settings (e.g. Very High, Ultra) than the settings with which XSX and PS5 run them.


You can see @Kenpachii's post here.


Hence, I'm wondering how soon this will become the case. For example, upcoming games that will be released on XSX and PS5 include Watch Dogs: Legion and Assassin's Creed: Valhalla; even though these games will be available on current-generation consoles, the versions that will run on XSX and PS5 will certainly be heavily taxing the next-generation consoles' hardware since Ubisoft has decided to cap them at 30 frames per second in order to attain satisfactory graphical quality. If these titles weren't demanding on XSX and PS5, then they wouldn't be capped at 30 frames per second.


Subsequently, do you think that these titles are using the entirety of the 10GB of GGDR6 that's allocated to XSX's GPU and the corresponding amount of VRAM that's allocated to PS5's GPU? If so, then do you think that these titles will require more than 10GB of VRAM on PC for higher graphical settings relative to the settings at which they run on XSX and PS5?


Hence, will GPUs such as the RTX 2080Ti and RTX 3080 be enough to run them at 4K with Very High or Ultra settings since they each have only 10GB of VRAM? Will the 24GB of GDDR6X that the RTX 3090 possesses prove to be necessary for enthusiast-level PC gaming?

___________________________

EDIT:

Looks like 10GB won't be enough for 4K-Ultra in the upcoming Watchdogs: Legion.

Watch Dogs: Legion PC Specs Revealed

[UPDATED] Learn more about the array of display and performance options and what you need to run the game on Ultra settings.

news.ubisoft.com

In short, no, the PC won't need more than 10G VRAM (depending on game of course). Keep in mind that the consoles have shared memory whereas the PC does not. The PC's allocation is going to strictly be for graphics processing. CPU RAM will still be used for the game code. In console world, the game code and graphics assets are shared. I don't think the VRAM usage is going to go very high this coming generation where 10G VRAM is going to be too little.