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[diffusionx]

Bill Gates is no longer with the company. If the narrative is Xbox has no games or bad games why would dropping their hardware and going 3rd party be beneficial? Why would Sony and Nintendo accept Game pass? Why would MS choose to be beholden to smaller companies to provide a platform for their software? Xbox is also another vector for their Direct X API. There is no logical reason for MS to turn to Sony and Nintendo to distribute their software when they already own a hardware platform to do so and make additional money off of third party licenses.

1. Irrelevant - my point is that Xbox has always been a weird fit for the company, from day one, and it doesn't fit today any better than it did 20 years ago.
2. I didn't say anything about narrative and it doesn't matter. If they don't have games, then operating a hardware console platform makes even less sense. I do think they have games though FWIW.
3. Sony already accepts 3rd party subscription services like EA Play
4. Sony and Nintendo might be smaller companies but their gaming platforms are far bigger than Xbox, and MS also has Windows.
5. All these Xbox games, and I do mean all, come out on PC anyway, and they all use DX there so I don't think Xbox is doing a lot of heavy lifting there.
6. It can make sense if it gives them access to a greater audience, which it does, and it can make sense if it relieves them of operating in an arena (hardware) that isn't in their strength, which it does. Sony and Nintendo sell a lot of peoples' games and a lot of them are very successful so I don't see why MS couldn't do the same thing. It's like a company maintaining a game engine, there's a reason why a lot of them are ditching them for UE, and it's because it doesn't play to their strengths and the advantages no longer outweigh the downsides.

 

[Fuz]

We can only hope.

 

[Havoc2049]

No. They have been making video games since something like 1983 or 1984.

 

[Nvzman]

I think a lot of people in this thread are not realizing that while Xbox as a service may be profitable now (Game Pass and XBL), their consoles have historically never made any money. If Series X/S continues this trend (as XBone was a loss; 360 broke even because of RRoD, and OG Xbox was a huge loss due to the initial brand growth phase), I wouldn't really be shocked to see Xbox abandon traditional hardware and purely go the route of software/publishing.

 

[LordBlodgett]

Hmmmmm, let's see. Microsoft spends nearly 10 billion on studios and publishers in the last five years, and is currently trying to spend 70 billion (by far the largest purchase they have ever made) on Activision-Blizzard. My guess is they'll probably write off the whole Xbox division in the next few years...........

 

[Ozriel]

1. Irrelevant - my point is that Xbox has always been a weird fit for the company, from day one, and it doesn't fit today any better than it did 20 years ago.
2. I didn't say anything about narrative and it doesn't matter. If they don't have games, then operating a hardware console platform makes even less sense. I do think they have games though FWIW.
3. Sony already accepts 3rd party subscription services like EA Play
4. Sony and Nintendo might be smaller companies but their gaming platforms are far bigger than Xbox, and MS also has Windows.
5. All these Xbox games, and I do mean all, come out on PC anyway, and they all use DX there so I don't think Xbox is doing a lot of heavy lifting there.
6. It can make sense if it gives them access to a greater audience, which it does, and it can make sense if it relieves them of operating in an arena (hardware) that isn't in their strength, which it does. Sony and Nintendo sell a lot of peoples' games and a lot of them are very successful so I don't see why MS couldn't do the same thing. It's like a company maintaining a game engine, there's a reason why a lot of them are ditching them for UE, and it's because it doesn't play to their strengths and the advantages no longer outweigh the downsides.

And all this is irrelevant, since they're increasingly unlikely to leave console gaming. With every investment into xCloud and their first party stable, this dream becomes even more remote.

I think a lot of people in this thread are not realizing that while Xbox as a service may be profitable now (Game Pass and XBL), their consoles have historically never made any money. If Series X/S continues this trend (as XBone was a loss

Source?

Console hardware also makes money for MS, Sony and Nintendo from subscription fees and royalties from third party games. Without an Xbox console, Microsoft wouldn't be making hundreds of millions from COD, Fortnite, Apex et al. Or the 30% cut from games like Elden Ring and Hogwarts Legacy.

 

[suspicious mind]

Sony will never allow gamepass on their consoles.
If you would ask them if gamepass could come to ps they would answer no because we want to protect our customers lol.

 

[DarkMage619]

And all this is irrelevant, since they're increasingly unlikely to leave console gaming. With every investment into xCloud and their first party stable, this dream becomes even more remote.




Source?

Console hardware also makes money for MS, Sony and Nintendo from subscription fees and royalties from third party games. Without an Xbox console, Microsoft wouldn't be making hundreds of millions from COD, Fortnite, Apex et al. Or the 30% cut from games like Elden Ring and Hogwarts Legacy.

It is a bit sad to see certain fans advocate for fewer console competitors. I have yet to hear any legitimate ways for MS to replace the lost revenue from no longer having a hardware platform or relying of the charity of Nintendo and Sony to provide a place for Game pass after their consoles are dropped. I guess those people can continue dream as they have for 20 years. The rest of us can keep playing the numerous games on Xbox.

Sony will never allow gamepass on their consoles.
If you would ask them if gamepass could come to ps they would answer no because we want to protect our customers lol.

Exactly. MS benefits from having more places to have Game pass not fewer but it does expose that some are not serious with the suggestion.

 

[bentanchorbolt]

I doubt it. Generally companies with one foot in and the other out aren't spending $80b in developer and publisher acquisitions in a 5 year span.

 

[Nvzman]

Source?

Console hardware also makes money for MS, Sony and Nintendo from subscription fees and royalties from third party games. Without an Xbox console, Microsoft wouldn't be making hundreds of millions from COD, Fortnite, Apex et al. Or the 30% cut from games like Elden Ring and Hogwarts Legacy.

Microsoft would like to remind you the Xbox definitely makes money

Xbox consoles are sold at a loss

www.theverge.com

Microsoft themselves admitted it. Additionally they haven't disclosed sales since 2016 for the Xbox One.

 

[Ansphn]

No, it does not. Read this again. Total revenue does not account for expenses at all.

• Revenue, also known simply as "sales", does NOT deduct any costs or expenses associated with operating the business.

Okay it does not account for the cost. My point was revenue is not the same as profit. Xbox has higher revenue but has higher expenses than Nintendo. The real way to equate gain is "Profit".

 

[Ozriel]

http://[URL]https://www.theverge.co...tware-services-revenue-apple-epic-games-trial

[/URL]

Microsoft themselves admitted it. Additionally they haven't disclosed sales since 2016 for the Xbox One.

You clearly didn’t read the article well. It’s referring solely to the Xbox Series line that had just launched at the time of the trial. Historically, console makers sell at a loss at launch.

More importantly, you’ve lost sight of the fact that consoles generate significant additional funds from the royalties from 3rd party games.

 

[reinking]

 

[Nvzman]

You clearly didn’t read the article well. It’s referring solely to the Xbox Series line that had just launched at the time of the trial. Historically, console makers sell at a loss at launch.

More importantly, you’ve lost sight of the fact that consoles generate significant additional funds from the royalties from 3rd party games.

Brother you didn't read the article at all, what the fuck are you smoking:
"An Epic Games lawyer asked a follow-up question: “Does Microsoft ever earn a profit on the sale of an Xbox console?” Wright replied, “No.” That doesn’t mean Xbox doesn’t make money, though. Microsoft was keen to point this out in a statement to The Verge just hours after Wright’s testimony yesterday."
"Ever"
"EVER"
The quoted question is clearly referring to Xbox as a brand ("The console gaming business is traditionally a hardware subsidy model. Game companies sell consoles at a loss to attract new customers. Profits are generated in game sales and online service subscriptions.“), not just the Series X/Series S consoles, which wouldn't even be that relevant to the question as they were only a year old or less when these articles started coming out and they weren't even released when the lawsuit started, which likely makes them not entirely relevant to the case given they weren't the current generation at the time. Additionally, this is not even that much of a reach even if it was only speaking of Series X/Series S (which its not), given how insanely costly the Xbox 360 was because of the whole RRoD situation costing them $1.15 billion dollars, which was their best selling Xbox.

Even better, nearly every other press outlet had this information even more clearly stating that they are referring to all past hardware. You have Google as a tool, use it.

Also you do realize 3rd party game royalties are software revenue, not hardware right? Or are you that dense lol. There's still nothing stopping MS from selling games on the Microsoft Store on PC.

 

[ReBurn]

Yeah that second line was too much, but the first one was needed for my point and I stand by it.

Also this is my main account. The fact that I don't mince my words should tell you I'm not a coward but alas... you bought a xbox.

 

[Ozriel]

Also you do realize 3rd party game royalties are software revenue, not hardware right? Or are you that dense lol. There's still nothing stopping MS from selling games on the Microsoft Store on PC.

You said "Their consoles never made money", in a thread where the main bone of discussion is about MS exiting the console business. These are software royalties because of their console strategy. Revenues that would be massively curtailed if they stop making consoles.

Are you that dense to imagine that they'd have success selling third games on the Microsoft Store in a world where Steam exists?

 

[Nvzman]

You said "Their consoles never made money", in a thread where the main bone of discussion is about MS exiting the console business. These are software royalties because of their console strategy. Revenues that would be massively curtailed if they stop making consoles.

Are you that dense to imagine that they'd have success selling third games on the Microsoft Store in a world where Steam exists?

Considering MS wants to double down on game pass, it would likely be more profitable for them in the long run to have that on as many devices as possible versus the limited number of Xbox owners buying games. Even then this was never my point; my point was the hardware was never profitable, and what you are talking about is still software lol. Software depending on hardware yes, but that wasn't what I was referring to.

 

[German Hops]

Flight Stimulator guarantees that they will stay.

 

[DarkMage619]

Considering MS wants to double down on game pass, it would likely be more profitable for them in the long run to have that on as many devices as possible versus the limited number of Xbox owners buying games. Even then this was never my point; my point was the hardware was never profitable, and what you are talking about is still software lol. Software depending on hardware yes, but that wasn't what I was referring to.

MS already has Game pass on as many devices as possible. Dropping their console REDUCES the number of devices and certainly would not generate more money for them. Traditionally consoles were not sold for profit. They were used as a gateway to get people to purchase additional software from the ecosystem. The Xbox would be a much more effective way of getting more money for MS than without it.

 

[rodrigolfp]

Abandoning Xbox =/= leaving gaming. They started on DOS and will end on Windows.

 

[diffusionx]

Sony will never allow gamepass on their consoles.
If you would ask them if gamepass could come to ps they would answer no because we want to protect our customers lol.

If MS was a third party and put their games on Sony I see no reason why they would turn down GamePass. They would be no different from EA. I think MS would be very successful as a third party and would not have to deal with the headaches that come from making and selling hardware. This transition has happened before. If Xbox was more successful this is a much harder question but Xbox is not really a successful hardware platform - by MS' own admission in these regulatory findings. Their entire argument for allowing this sale is basically that they suck so bad compared to Sony and will continue to suck afterwards lol.

And all this is irrelevant, since they're increasingly unlikely to leave console gaming. With every investment into xCloud and their first party stable, this dream becomes even more remote.

The whole point of something like xcloud is that it runs on anything including a browser and doesnt need some big expensive console.

 

[Ozriel]

Considering MS wants to double down on game pass, it would likely be more profitable for them in the long run to have that on as many devices as possible versus the limited number of Xbox owners buying games.

Not sure if you've been living under a rock, but Gamepass is also on PC and also via xCloud. Xbox games are sold on PC. It's not limited to Xbox consoles.

Even then this was never my point; my point was the hardware was never profitable, and what you are talking about is still software lol. Software depending on hardware yes, but that wasn't what I was referring to.

Most of the thread was about Xbox in the console business. Why would you single out hardware margins only when that's only a portion of the revenue streams that accrue from having consoles in the market?

The whole point of something like xcloud is that it runs on anything including a browser and doesnt need some big expensive console.

The games run on console hardware in the cloud.

 

[Nvzman]

MS already has Game pass on as many devices as possible. Dropping their console REDUCES the number of devices and certainly would not generate more money for them. Traditionally consoles were not sold for profit. They were used as a gateway to get people to purchase additional software from the ecosystem. The Xbox would be a much more effective way of getting more money for MS than without it.

Not sure if you've been living under a rock, but Gamepass is also on PC and also via xCloud. Xbox games are sold on PC. It's not limited to Xbox consoles.



Most of the thread was about Xbox in the console business. Why would you single out hardware margins only when that's only a portion of the revenue streams that accrue from having consoles in the market?



The games run on console hardware in the cloud.

Jesus, I didn't know PC, Xbox, and mobile were the only devices in existence. It's almost like there's two other big, much better selling devices with a bigger install base for gaming...
The density here would make rocks blush

 

[Zathalus]

Okay it does not account for the cost. My point was revenue is not the same as profit. Xbox has higher revenue but has higher expenses than Nintendo. The real way to equate gain is "Profit".

Yes your original argument was "small base that don't spend much money"

The base spends more money then Nintendo, significantly so.

 

[Zathalus]

Jesus, I didn't know PC, Xbox, and mobile were the only devices in existence. It's almost like there's two other big, much better selling devices with a bigger install base for gaming...
The density here would make rocks blush

Sony and Nintendo are never going to allow Gamepass on their systems. Nor would they allow a Microsoft store. So Xbox, PC, and mobile are the only options.

 

[DarkMage619]

Jesus, I didn't know PC, Xbox, and mobile were the only devices in existence. It's almost like there's two other big, much better selling devices with a bigger install base for gaming...
The density here would make rocks blush

Well MS can't control access to those devices you are referring to. They do have 100% access to Xbox. So dropping the platform they control for ones they don't makes absolutely no sense at all. I'd also wager there are more mobile devices than Nintendo and Sony consoles. What was that about being dense?

 

[Nvzman]

Sony and Nintendo are never going to allow Gamepass on their systems. Nor would they allow a Microsoft store. So Xbox, PC, and mobile are the only options.

That's an assumption, PlayStation allows for Ubisoft+ and EA Play, if Microsoft does end up owning Call of Duty it would probably be in MS's court.

 

[IDKFA]

MS will stop making consoles.
Focus on Gamepass on PC
Expand Gamepass to Playstation.


Mark this thread.

I can actually see this happening. A while ago MS admitted that they've never made a profit with Xbox hardware, so I could see them ditching consoles and going full in with Gamepass.

Gamepass could work on PlayStation and Nintendo consoles easily. It would just be an additional service you could play on those consoles. Like, how with my fire stick I don't just have access to Prime, but can also watch Netflix if I pay for the sub.

 

[Nvzman]

Well MS can't control access to those devices you are referring to. They do have 100% access to Xbox. So dropping the platform they control for ones they don't makes absolutely no sense at all. I'd also wager there are more mobile devices than Nintendo and Sony consoles. What was that about being dense?

Because the ones they control don't sell that well compared to competition and don't make a ton of money lol.

The mental gymnastics here are insane. Don't bother replying at this point.

 

[DarkMage619]

Because the ones they control don't sell that well compared to competition and don't make a ton of money lol.

The mental gymnastics here are insane. Don't bother replying at this point.

MS doesn't need to sell the most consoles to be successful in console gaming especially since they have diversified their offerings. You should probably take your own advice about replying.

 

[IFireflyl]

MS doesn't need to sell the most consoles to be successful in console gaming especially since they have diversified their offerings. You should probably take your own advice about replying.

Them bitching to regulators about their console market share compared to Sony says otherwise.

 

[Ansphn]

Yes your original argument was "small base that don't spend much money"

The base spends more money then Nintendo, significantly so.

What you showed was only 2021. I will have to look into the other years because if it's actually true that Xbox base spends more money than Nintendo base, my mind would be completely blown. Also Xbox just released the Series consoles late 2021 so that might have accounted for the sale growth in 2021. I'll get back to you on this.

 

[DarkMage619]

What you showed was only 2021. I will have to look into the other years because if it's actually true that Xbox base spends more money than Nintendo base, my mind would be completely blown. Also Xbox just released the Series consoles late 2021 so that might have accounted for the sale growth in 2021. I'll get back to you on this.

Xbox Series consoles released in Nov 2020.

 

[Sanepar]

MS and Steam will be around until the last day of games on earth. The rest idk.

Ms will buy a lot of publishers and studios. Abk is just the start.

 

[Stare-Bear]

They’ll leave the hardware side of Xbox for sure. But gamepass will be here forever.

 

[Warablo]

Eventually all these companies probably want to get rid of producing a loss on a console, but they still want to sell you games and controllers/services.

 

[Moriarty1889]

Not likely. They have spent a staggering amount on Bethesda Zenimax and now Activision Blizzard. They have the funding to go deeper than Somy or Nintendo. They are also supposedly working on their next console as well. Xbox isnt going anywhere just yet imo. It’s also better for them to remain in the market as competition is what drives all of this.

 

[Jboemios]

Bill Gates is no longer with the company. If the narrative is Xbox has no games or bad games why would dropping their hardware and going 3rd party be beneficial? Why would Sony and Nintendo accept Game pass? Why would MS choose to be beholden to smaller companies to provide a platform for their software? Xbox is also another vector for their Direct X API. There is no logical reason for MS to turn to Sony and Nintendo to distribute their software when they already own a hardware platform to do so and make additional money off of third party licenses.

This is a key part. Xbox helps MS to spread its DIRECTX platform. Xbox is not only about game sales

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Given what they are doing now never. Hell, they just bought Activision. So unless they junked all their hardware R&D and sold all their gaming studios, they'll be around.

MS has been making games all the way back to the 80s. Check out this beauty from the early 80s. We had it. Good game for the time except the shotput was retarded and never worked properly even using a joystick.

Track & Field's gameplay mechanics were definitely inspired by this game.

 

[Ansphn]

Xbox Series consoles released in Nov 2020.

Yes I know. Mentioned that. The hype for the new console carried the revenue through-out 2021.

 

[PendekarRajawali]

They are gonna end buying sony and N

They’ve tried to buy N. But N said get the fuck out of here.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

They’ve tried to buy N. But N said get the fuck out of here.

Sounds like it was a partnership offer, similar to Nintendo/Sony which didn't pan out.

Microsoft just memorialized its failed attempt to buy Nintendo in 1999 by sharing a letter it sent the Japanese gaming giant

In 1999, when Microsoft execs approached Nintendo about buying the company, Nintendo reportedly "just laughed their asses off" before saying no.

www.businessinsider.com

 

[PendekarRajawali]

Sounds like it was a partnership offer, similar to Nintendo/Sony which didn't pan out.

http://[URL]https://www.businessinsider.com/microsoft-letter-failed-attempt-to-buy-nintendo-2021-11

[/URL]

From the website:

Moreover, Microsoft would outright buy Nintendo in the deal.

Nintendo's response? "They just laughed their asses off," former Microsoft third-party relations head Kevin Bachus told Bloomberg earlier this year. "Like, imagine an hour of somebody just laughing at you. That was kind of how that meeting went."

 

[Topher]

Sony will never allow gamepass on their consoles.
If you would ask them if gamepass could come to ps they would answer no because we want to protect our customers lol.

 

[Jimmyisback]

MS will stop making consoles.
Focus on Gamepass on PC
Expand Gamepass to Playstation.


Mark this thread.

They're next console is already in development.

 

[F0rneus]

They should not and, IMO they won't. They might be the smallest in terms of market share in the Big Three league but they still own a slice of that apple. And ever since the XBox One reveal fiasco, they worked hard to turn things around, and now with the Series X/S, they have a great console to play many great games and Gamepass is quite the incentive for many gamers and I am sure, they are making big bucks out of it.

MS is more focused on both PC and their console platforms than either Sony and Nintendo, which gives them a leg up on that side too. Sony is now carving their path there too, but there are speed bumps on that road thus far.

I don't think I'll buy a MS console again, because I am now fully immersed in the world of Playstation, and their exclusives aren't to my taste but they obviously still cater to a wide variety of gamers, are making a profit no matter how big or small their apple slice is, and they offer a great product and value.

So no, I don't think they are going to leave gaming anytime soon. They did a Wii U with XBox One but the Series line is a total Switch from that if you catch my drift.

 

[Captain Toad]

Yup. Microsoft is leaving gaming. Nintendo is going third-party. Sony is going out of business completely. Sega is bringing out the Dreamcast 2

 

[Captain Toad]

They did a Wii U with XBox One but the Series line is a total Switch from that if you catch my drift.

The Xbox One sold around 50 million. The Wii U sold 13.5.

But, the Series is not selling anywhere near Switch numbers.

 

[F0rneus]

The Xbox One sold around 50 million. The Wii U sold 13.5.

That's still not a lot compared to how the competition did, so my allegory is still correct. Obviously it did better, but just like Nintendo did with the Wii U, they released a confusing, and awkward machine that just didn't make the cut...Now the Series...series are truly fantastic pieces of hardware.

 

[Scotty W]

I suspect that for Microsoft, Xbox is not simply about Xbox profits, but also about data collection, and influence (political and otherwise) within demographics which they are unlikely to give up.