Banjo64
cumsessed
Yea a Logitech Xbox is nightmare fuel
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Xbox going OEM route for next-gen? 3rd party consoles in the making?
Mr.Phoenix
Member
We are just spit balling here, but the point is if they are going the multi-OEM route, which is basically the exact same thing happening with Windows PC right now, MS makes the software, other OEMs make the hardware that runs it, then they would be better off doing that, making a version of Windows that is unique in how it handles HTPC, gaming and creativity apps. There obviously would need to be some sort of base requirements hardware would have to meet to support the OS.
twilo99
Member
Out of the current Windows OEMs ... Lenovo, Asus, and Razer would be the ones who would likely jump on the xbox train first
DAHGAMING
Member
I just wish they would show some clarity either way. I have had Xbox as my main console since the 360, mainly due to thats where my online mates played, I have always had the PS consoles but mainly for exclusives, I also have always had a mid teir pc for gaming. Now days with crossplay and Discord it dosnt realy matter about who plays on what console so the only thing realy keeping me with Xbox is back back catalog both physical and digital.
The last yr or so with all these rumors about Xbox I have been reluctant to buy games on it, not knowing if my Xbox collection will be stuck on a dead system the coming yrs.
Microsoft should be coming out this year with a clear plan for the future instead of the smiles and riddles they have been dishing out in the recent years.
personaly if Sony come out and said 100% all there future 1st party games will come to PC I would just start preparing to build a good PC for when next gen come around. I know most PS games are coming to PC but theres still the odd game like Demon Souls that still hasnt made it over.
Hopefully Phils nose has reached its lie limit and we will get some infomation the the coming months.
The last yr or so with all these rumors about Xbox I have been reluctant to buy games on it, not knowing if my Xbox collection will be stuck on a dead system the coming yrs.
Microsoft should be coming out this year with a clear plan for the future instead of the smiles and riddles they have been dishing out in the recent years.
personaly if Sony come out and said 100% all there future 1st party games will come to PC I would just start preparing to build a good PC for when next gen come around. I know most PS games are coming to PC but theres still the odd game like Demon Souls that still hasnt made it over.
Hopefully Phils nose has reached its lie limit and we will get some infomation the the coming months.
Career shills are accepting the reality.
Yeah...Jez just dropped some bombs on Twitter.
Oh boy...
twilo99
Member
In the Windows space Microsoft actually makes their own hardware, and it's not bad at all, so they can do something like this here where they have some presence, but let the OEMs handle the bulk. The Surface line has some interesting offerings, and all in all they are well built compared to some of the OEMs.
There was some friction when all this happened because the OEMs were obviously not happy, but seems alright now.
Disco Dave
Member
The signs are there if you know what to look for...
bender
What time is it?
While I'm confident they have a plan going forward, they can't show clarity now, mid-generation as their consoles sales are bad enough as it is. And if they do plan a successor to the Series consoles in the hopes of competing with Sony, they are going to keep these waters murky.
HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
Career shills are accepting the reality.
Marching orders fax arrived
Horseganador
Member
Phil Spencer's silence on this whole issue is enough confirmation that all this is real, what Jez says doesn't matter, a month ago he said no, today some, tomorrow he will say all.
Mr.Phoenix
Member
Yup i know, but for the sake of this argument, it would mean that not only MS will be making the hardware. And trust me, if MS does this, the best Xbox on the market will not come from them. It may cost $3000, but it won't be from them though. In case you haven't noticed surface products albeit well built, tend to always p[ack hardware that is usually a generation or two older than what it should be.
And the day after that he will say its the best move in gaming.
Shills are gonna shill.
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twilo99
Member
100%
When it comes to gaming machines the only thing I'm concerned about is how many frames I can get for my dollars, and at I think that ratio would completely fall apart with the OEMs.
They will also have to worry about their pre-build gaming PCs, because at $2000 that xbox PC, or whatever it is, better perform at least on par with whatever gaming PC offering they have, because otherwise why would you buy the xbox branded one? The xbox UX? I dunno.
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RoadHazard
Gold Member
Yeah, but it's not like your Xbox runs a game at 70fps and mine at 45.
twilo99
Member
Well, the "eco system" would be stronger than ever if you think about it...
TheThreadsThatBindUs
Member
Nothing about MS's behavior in this industry since the Xb360 can be considered "direct competition".
MS have done anything BUT compete directly against Sony for the past decade. And their internal plans to foreclose Sony's gaming business, because they had no intention of directly competing, is public and undeniable.
The age of this narrative about MS directly competing and being good for the consumer died long ago. No-one should be fooled anymore.
Competition is good for the industry... but MS had no intention of competing. They wanted to dominate by any means necessary; even if they shat the whole industry down the crapper to do it.
omegasc
Member
or MSX
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
I wonder if they can make the xbox app just an xbox api for Windows pcs and it just runs everything. That would be cool as fuck.
HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
I have mentioned before even while Ybarra was still with Xbox I had heard him and Phil mention projects coming down the pipeline that still to this day haven't seen the light of day but this was one of those.
I am glad
icerock
posted what he did and now Jez confirming they are working with OEMs though Jez says Windows based, I had always heard Xbox OS based but that was literally years ago
Bry0
Member
I could see a gaming mode like the old “tablet mode” being put into windows 12. In my head it makes more sense because it leaves the door open for other Microsoft services, sell you your game pass sub alongside some onedrive and office or whatever else they will inevitably come up with. The need for a stripped back OS isn’t quite as necessary now as it used to be and I could see suits still pushing for windows now like they did in 2000 with the original Xbox. The steam deck’s desktop mode and gaming mode shows how versatile the software setup can be if you build it that way.I have mentioned before even while Ybarra was still with Xbox I had heard him and Phil mention projects coming down the pipeline that still to this day haven't seen the light of day but this was one of those.
I am glad
Schmendrick
Member
Naive....
Welcome to capitalism, where every single competitor is always aiming for domination. As if Sony or Nintendo wouldn't try that if their warchests were even remotely capable of supporting such ambitions.....
That is exactly what competition means.
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thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
The way I was trying to frame it, is that the 5% would get them the Windows & Xbox UI license, and cover some of the cost of production of certain aspects of the hardware, mainly with things like CPU/GPU/APU components that MS put in the orders and set up the wafers for (well, pay AMD or Nvidia or Intel to secure those wafers). That's the side MS would take care of, not SEGA or Samsung, because the idea I guess they'd all be sharing those wafers anyhow, so each of them are just pooling an amount towards it reflected in the licensing cost.
But outside of that cost, each company would still be paying for component production as regularly required; maybe they all also have that licensing fee cover some stage of production assembly that's also shared, then for specific OEM boxes they take what's been assembled to another warehouse to complete the production with their various hardware customizations. They can use their license for Windows & Xbox UI on any machine they produce though, and add some in-house utilities and software features to the desktop environment and Xbox UI specific for their particular product type. Shipping, distribution etc. would be their own logistics to handle, but these companies would be aware of how to handle those things.
In that sense I think it could work. But, we'll see if anything like that happens, in due time.
You're thinking about it like a traditional console business model. The entire point here is that they would move away from that. Yeah making it so Xbox runs Windows opens up the reality most will go to Steam for their game purchases but that's counterbalanced by MS putting their titles on as many platforms as can run them. Changing that business model also significantly helps them in negotiating a form of Game Pass for Sony & Nintendo platforms, similar to the sub services EA and Ubisoft have. They also make a lot more money upfront on the hardware sales, which balances out the likelihood of less units being manufactured.
How it works for OEMs, well that's a part still up for debate. I had some ideas but admit they aren't fully fleshed out. The idea of licensing out the hardware to OEMs only makes sense to me if MS designs a spec innovative enough to where OEMs desire to use it in their products, but that would be a tall order. They don't make their own GPUs, their own RAM etc. The innovation would have to come at the I/O and form factor level, but good luck there.
It's why I still think if anything like this happens, it'd be Microsoft manufacturing the hardware themselves still, at least to start, and open up to OEMs somewhere down the line. Maybe they develop some Xbox PC tablet with a cubic 3D AR folding display that takes off and patent the design to license it out later to OEMs. Who knows really.
They could do that; in fact they might probably do that too as an addition. But like with the Surface devices, they would have a level of optimization at the hardware/software level through vertical integration, plus ability to do some innovation with form factors and I/O features, that would make releasing Xbox hardware themselves a desire nonetheless.
Because the SEGA Xbox wouldn't need to sell console-level numbers to be worth it, and can double as a full-fledged PC. And in the SEGA example, they could design custom casings calling back to classic systems for nostalgia purposes, even with accompanying peripherals (USB-based of course, and compatible with general PCs).
Currently, Xbox has zero of these appeals and that's part of the reason its brand in hardware sales and whatnot has been declining so severely.
Depends on what "mass-market" means. If it's not being positioned as a games console, suddenly 2 million a year is mass-market. Say if MS made 2 million Xbox NUC PCs for $999 and they have a profit margin of even $150 on each of them, that's $1.998 billion in revenue and $300 million in gross profits. They're spending less in hardware production, still generate decent revenue, and make profits off the hardware (something that isn't happening with Xbox consoles at current).
In actuality they could potentially make double the number of units a year and finesse more profit margins each one sold, but that would be on them to figure out.
That's exactly what it's going to be.
And that was actually a success for what it was.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Bry0
Member
“It’s false, except it’s not” I don’t think he really put anything to bed. Next month he will be like “yeah so it turns out it’s not just handhelds” lol
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Negotiator101
Member
Trillion dollar company laughs at the term "not sustainable"
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Literally everything so far has been nothing but rumors. Some were thinking they'll announce the Hi-Fi rush port along with the Direct, but that didn't happen either.
Let's wait for any of it to be announced formally.
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BlackTron
Member
Trillion dollar company laughs at the term "not sustainable"
You're a broken record stuck on the shitty part of a song.
Trillion dollar company laughs at your assertions that they need a way out
Topher
Gold Member
You really think a tweet from Jez Corden puts anything "to bed"?
Ass of Can Whooping
Member
The ladies love my tweets
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
A tweet from Jizzz talking about a rumor is about as credible from a discord person talking about rumors.
Seems trustworthy.
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SEGAvangelist
Member
My best friend's uncle who reprogrammed an Xbox Series X to be a PlayStation 5 confirmed the same stuff. I promised I wouldn't say anything, so let's keep this here.
Topher
Gold Member
A tweet from Jizzz talking about a rumor is about as credible from a discord person talking about rumors.
Which means we are still just in the realm of unsubstantiated rumors. Nothing has been confirmed true or false.
Negotiator101
Member
BlackTron
Member
It was better when you just completely ignored the posts than ignored only half.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
True, including any rumors of any games becoming multi-platform or Microsoft branded gaming-handhelds or
SEGAvangelist
's inside sources.
LordBlodgett
Member
This would be the absolute worst. If they want their marketplace to continue to have any relevance at all their console needs to be competitive with others. It will not be competitive anymore if they use 3rd party for profit hardware partners. That has never once worked for any console in history. Even though they have a PC marketplace, they cannot be relied upon either as most would prefer to use Steam.
iHaunter
Member
Microsoft need to give up on hardware, they lost. Stick with Software and Cloud services. Game Pass Ultimate + XCloud on every TV. People won't even need an Xbox. Focus on making the Xbox App on PC not garbage. PC is obviously a big enough market. If they partner with all TV makers having XCloud. Their Subscription as a service model could give them good revenue.
reinking
Gold Member
I am okay with this. Ever since MS has gone back to PC games releasing day one I have kind of wanted an Xbox branded PC. I would like to see Xbox partner with someone and optimize the Xbox games for their Xbox branded PC. They could always run the "plays best on..." tag line for marketing. It will be interesting if they go the console OEM path. IMO, that is a bit riskier than a PC partner.
omegasc
Member
I had one and had a blast back in the day!
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adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Newer rumor tweets say it's more like the hand-held PC's. Which seems a lot more likely, since every other company is launching one anyway, and MS runs partnerships with a few of them which shows they have interest in that market.
reinking
Gold Member
Look. From all the stupid "Xbox is going third party" rumors that are floating around here in last weeks this is probably the stupidest one. Because it doesn't make any sense.
Sony won't allow Game Pass on PlayStation. Because Game Pass is not only about first-party but also about third party content. So if (for example) A Plague Tale Requiem is in Game Pass day one, it directly hurts sales of PlayStation version of A Plague Tale Requiem, where Sony can have 30% cut. And nobody would sub for first-party only Game Pass, because Microsoft don't and will never have enough studios/games to sustain subscription service with first-party only. Not without huge blow to their revenue stream from Game Pass. And while I'm sure Microsoft would loved to have Game Pass on PlayStation, nobody here believes that there is a chance in hell that Sony will allow that. Not even with Microsoft out of hardware business entirely.
OEM's working on "Xbox consoles" is just ludicrous idea. Because, if those OEM machines would have Xbox OS (which is only financially viable path for Microsoft, because they want to keep 30% cut), you would have plenty of machines on the market. And you need to guess how "happy" devs would be about that when they are currently bitching about 2-SKU Xbox generation. Other option is those "OEM Xbox consoles" to have Windows, which is even more stupid idea, because Microsoft would lost 30% cut, because on Windows you can install any launcher and circumvent Xbox cut entirely. Not to mention even bigger problems.
A: What would even be an incentive for OEM's to do such a "Xbox console." Consoles are historically low-margin business because you are selling console for attractive price (many times at loss) and you are recouping that loss through 30% cut on your store. So would Microsoft share that 30% with OEM's to convince them to sell their device at loss? But why not make their own console if they have to make Xbox OS regardless?
B: Those devices would be absolutely noncompetitive in terms of pricing vs. PlayStation 5/6/7 etc. There is a reason, why is Valve able to sell Steam Deck for 369€ while ASUS ROG Ally is selling for 569€. Because Valve can subsidise hardware if they want, because they know that majority of Deck owners will be buying games through Steam so they will have 30% cut. ASUS needs to sell ROG Ally at profit.
There is not a way how you could make it work financially with loss of 30% revenue cut from Xbox Store. And if there is not a logical way, of course it's bullshit.
Only way I can see Microsoft working with OEM's is in handheld category if they don't want to enter it themselves (which they should in my opinion). But that's already happening since ROG Ally, Legion Go and MSI Claw are heavily promoted with PC Game Pass.
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