Ok but Chrono Trigger
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Final Fantasy VI isn't really impressing? Has Chrono Trigger ruined JRPGs for me?
- Thread starter Stopdoor
- Start date
Ok but Chrono Trigger
WaterAstro
Member
Eh I like FF6 more than Chrono Trigger.
Discopizza
Member
I don't find the characters in Chrono Trigger to be interesting or likeable outside of maybe Lucca. I prefer the cast of FFVI.
I also like VI more as a whole, but think Terranigma is more fun to play than either.
I also like VI more as a whole, but think Terranigma is more fun to play than either.
DrROBschiz
Member
Man
As the resident FF6 superfan this topic might be too much for me lol
His criticisms are unique for sure. I hate pitting these two games against each other since i adore them both
But 6 captured my imagination and the characters are just stronger emotional attachments for me
As the resident FF6 superfan this topic might be too much for me lol
His criticisms are unique for sure. I hate pitting these two games against each other since i adore them both
But 6 captured my imagination and the characters are just stronger emotional attachments for me
DrROBschiz
Member
I will never understand the love of 4
Its one of the most boring games in the bunch and has been overexposed with a plethora of rereleases and remakes
It might be my least favorite these days
Worst 4th post ever
ULTROS!
People seem to like me because I am polite and I am rarely late. I like to eat ice cream and I really enjoy a nice pair of slacks.
VI is good though, but it doesn't really hold up in the highest regards for me because I played it pretty much late, I finished it during the PS2 era.
My major issue with FFV is the story. It's woefully simple compared to VI (and even IV).
My major issue with FFV is the story. It's woefully simple compared to VI (and even IV).
Novel Mike
Member
I don't understand how you think the cutscenes and sprite work are amateurish. For their time it was amazing to see the Oprah House, the poisoning of Doma, Celes attempting to kill herself, the big multi party battles, ect. all come to life via those cut scenes and sprite work. Yeah sure by TODAYS standards its nothing impressive but FF6 paved the way for those things doing what they did with the technology they had at the time. CT also shares the exact same style and goofy sprite work btw.
You don't want to miss things? Explore. Talk to everyone. Thats the highlight of so many RPG's is when the world opens up you get to explore and find crazy things. Every good RPG has that and most don't spell out those things for you, including CT. From the way it sounds you didn't get Mog either did you (don't worry you still can)? Shadow dying is something that can be missed pretty easily as well, I certainly did the first time I played the game, only figured it out in my second playthrough when I risked staying the whole time since he does say he'll catch up.
The Cid thing is lasting long because you keep feeding him both good and bad fish. Good fish move quickly, bad fish move slowly. It's generally easy to kill him just by giving him a few bad fish since you didn't know about it I'd guess you are really just having some bad luck XD its not something I hear people complain about often thats for sure. The execution of that entire story is about breaking you down as the player (as well as Celes) and just showing how hopeless everything really is. You awaken to find only yourself and Cid left alive and come to find out theres nothing left (or so you think) and it culminates with Celes losing Cid, feeling as though shes lost everything and trying to commit suicide. The whole point of the game trying to have you save Cid is all about the struggle to survive in a broken world and how desperate Celes is to keep him alive and ultimately what they mean to each other.
Clearly you don't care about that so of course you think its executed bad. I just don't think FF6 is clicking with you and it doesn't matter what anyone says to you its just not something you are enjoying and nothing we say is going to change that. I for one think you went into the game expecting something completely different and because of that its colored your opinion of the rest of the game. I could be wrong but thats the way it comes off from your posts, you don't seem to understand just how good the actual cut scenes were for their time. If you want to understand this more I'd suggest you watch this: https://youtu.be/7ygKNRHbWL8 The first part goes quite in depth on how impressive FF6's graphics were at the time.
You literally admitted mid-post the fishing was executed badly because it led to an unexplained stasis. Yeah, I appreciate the point it's making, but it feels limited by its tech in a way that Chrono Trigger doesn't feel as noticeably.
I push back with this cutscene:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Dyw5hvMeUU
So far nothing in FFVI has eclipsed this level of style - ignoring the PS1 cutscene interjected in, the way the environment lights with fire, the way the music kicks in subtly at a specific line of dialogue, the way the wind starts to howl as Magus comments on it, then the beginning of the battle music when he declares it's time to fight - and you just transition naturally into battle without a transport to a different plane of existence where Magus would be unanimated and drawn in some conflicting style to the main cast.
Like I said, maybe Chrono Trigger has ruined my standards here, I am probably going into it with preconceived notions, but I also went into the game knowing it was highly praised and ready to be impressed. FFVI gets a ton of praise so you better be ready to defend its efforts against this sort of quality.
JudgmentJay
Member
That's an even worse opinion though.
The part you are at was really impressive to me, Kefka first poisoning people's drinking water and even destroying the world was crazy. I agree that it was confusing at times when I didn't know where to go next but I really liked the game overall.
That's coming from a huge Chrono fanboy.
That's coming from a huge Chrono fanboy.
Novel Mike
Member
I never said the finishing was badly executed, I said you were unlucky and that normally doesn't happen. Might be something they changed in the GBA version, maybe they made it easier to keep Cid alive, I have no idea I just know I've never seen anyone complain about it before.
Yes the Magus introduction is great, no arguments here hell its likely the best overall scene in the game.
Final Fantasy 6 has the entire Opera sequence, the World of Balance ending, ect. all epic moments but if you want something more comparable well... look where they got the idea for that Magus seen from. Although warning, Major spoilers, IE Final Boss revealed spoilers: https://youtu.be/XgcbShn9x8g?t=14m56s
It's not exactly the same, no but the way its presented and the way Magus is presented are very very similar, likely because many of the people who worked on FF6 also worked on CT. Both amazing scenes but CT came later so yeah they could do more with it at that time.
I don't think Chrono Trigger has ruined your standards I think the problem is that you keep internally comparing FF6 to CT and expecting it to match it in every aspect which doesn't make any sense they aren't even remotely the same game even if they were on the same system. I'd hate to see what you think of Final Fantasy 4 or 5 if you think that 6 looks bad.
The biggest difference between the games is tone, FF6 deals with slavery, suicide, murder, genocide, ect. CT deals with some heavy stuff as well but its tone is much more optimistic and cheerful about everything. It has more fantasy elements then FF6 has complete with the biggest tonal different between the two, villains.
Kefka is an evil, twisted, demented, psychopath who seeks and acquires godlike power and uses it to reshape the world in his image. The thing about Kefka is that he is very much a psychopath, he loves to hurt people and to make them suffer so he creates a world where suffering is constant, where hope is non-existent, where he can play with all the lives of the people of the world and torture them as he pleases laughing as he does it. Kefka could wipe out the entire world if he wanted to in a flash but he doesn't want to do that you see, that wouldn't be fun to him. He wants to twist, bend, and break the lives of all of those who are still living because thats suffering is what gets him off, that is what makes him the most excited and happy he can be. He is a truly sick and twisted man which is why his victory is all the more shocking. A character like Kefka in any other game would be comic relief or a mid boss (hell the game even makes you think thats what he is that all throughout the world of balance) but if you take that character and give him godlike power then he will abuse it to the full extent he can, not because he wants to end the world like so many other lame villains, no he wants chaos and suffering, to bleed the life slowly out of every living thing on the planet before its over, and nothing would make him happier.
Then you look at Lavos... A space monster that eats away at a planet for a time then destroys the world, breeds on it and then does it over and over again. He's a giant monster he has no personality, he has no ambitions, he has no character, hes just a giant monster. He's a serious threat sure but where as I can go into detailed paragraphs analyzing and discussing Kefka's personality, ambitions, desires, and purpose there isn't much you can say about Lavos because hes just a thing you've gotta stop, very generic fantasy storyline filler villain just blown up in importance because he also destroys the world.
Hell thats one reason I honestly don't want the current SE to remake FF6 because the current SE doesn't even fucking understand Kefka, his character in the Dissida game is just a clown, Kefka's character is all about hiding whom he really is, you think hes crazy because hes dressed up like a clown, its a disguise to hide how truly evil and twisted he actually is, and it works because he continues to commit monstrous thing after monstrous thing only to deceive and betray the Emperor and usurp power for himself. Kefka gets away with it because hes smarter then everyone else, everyone including your player characters constantly underestimate him up until the very end.
Myths
Member
There were some gameplay elements distinguishing CT from the rest, probably even making it more palatable to people who've never played RPGs either.
FFV is a whimsical entry too if not FFVI. While FFV moreorless tops the list out of every FF for me, it certainly doesn't best CT overall. I place gameplay paramount to anything else, but CT's time-travel element and NG+ impacting the storyline was executed quite well.
FFV is a whimsical entry too if not FFVI. While FFV moreorless tops the list out of every FF for me, it certainly doesn't best CT overall. I place gameplay paramount to anything else, but CT's time-travel element and NG+ impacting the storyline was executed quite well.
DrROBschiz
Member
Overrated?
Come on man
4 has gotten the lions share of attention over the years
5 is greatly under appreciated so ill give ya that
SilverArrow20XX
Walks in the Light of the Crystal
Honestly, judging by your complaints about FFVI compared to what you liked about CT, FFV probably is a better choice for you. It has much better gameplay balance, where all of your moves feel useful and experimenting is fun. Its story, while much simpler than VI and CT, also doesn't have as much tonal inconsistency. It also has a main villain who is a constant imposing and threatening destructive presence, more akin to Lavos.
Jawmuncher
Member
Chrono Trigger didn't ruin anything.
FF6 was just never that good.
FF6 was just never that good.
DrROBschiz
Member
This is some bullshit
If 6 got the respect and remake treatment it deserved maybe all these drive bys wouldnt be so rough damn
yikes... is there some kind of FF cycle at play here. seems like not too long ago you'd be sent to the shed casting just a bit of shade on FF6. not that people can't have opinions, but damn
as for FFV, the game was essentially pure gameplay. i think square was trying to crib Dragon Quest's success by taking the series in a more light hearted direction and then for whatever reason took a 180 turn for FF6.
as for FFV, the game was essentially pure gameplay. i think square was trying to crib Dragon Quest's success by taking the series in a more light hearted direction and then for whatever reason took a 180 turn for FF6.
blummer102
Member
None of the SNES games - heck, very few of the mainline Final Fantasy games IN GENERAL - have aged very well at all, with the possible exception of 9. FF6 is a prime example of this. Its tonal inconsistencies bothered me also the first few times I played it. and a lot of its drama, while hard-hitting in the day if you played it when it was new, is just hard to take serious in 2017 now that gaming as a medium has matured. All I can say is, despite its problems, do stick with it OP, because the overall game does have some great stuff in it and the characters and steampunk atmosphere are pretty memorable if nothing else. Also, the ending - which is like ten or fifteen minutes if I remember correctly - is very satisfying.
Harrison Bergeron
Member
It's really interesting to read this discussion, and I think, as others have mentioned it's an aging thing.
Where FFVI was essentially an iterative step of the type of game Square established for the mainline FF series, Chrono Trigger was a more experimental take on the genre.
I actually played Chrono Trigger before FF 3/6, right when it came out in 95, and then FF 3/6 immediate after (borrowed from friend). My memory of the time is that I loved both games equally but differently. FFVI's story—the scope, the sophistication (believe it or not), and the detail was a real draw, but I can understand it hasn't aged well too.
I think it's just harder to come at FFVI for the first time with a whole context of other, more contemporary narrative-centric games. I feel like it tries to use a lot more dialogue and static set-pieces to push its story out than Chrono Trigger, and having sprites talk and act out a sweeping, serious, and sophisticated narrative was a pretty new idea. It may not make sense looking back, but at the time, FFVI used the medium to provide a narrative experience that you didn't really get a lot of. The AAA RPG with drama, emotion, intrigue, on a grand scale.
I remember at the time both games gave me this feeling I was experiencing something like a movie, but with the detail and scope of a novel, and with the sense of immersion of a video game. It was a unique feeling in my entertainment habits. Maybe FFVI relied more on the novelty of that sensation than Chrono Trigger ultimately did? CT has definitely aged better, but I think some of the same age spots are apparent in its storytelling as well.
Where FFVI was essentially an iterative step of the type of game Square established for the mainline FF series, Chrono Trigger was a more experimental take on the genre.
I actually played Chrono Trigger before FF 3/6, right when it came out in 95, and then FF 3/6 immediate after (borrowed from friend). My memory of the time is that I loved both games equally but differently. FFVI's story—the scope, the sophistication (believe it or not), and the detail was a real draw, but I can understand it hasn't aged well too.
I think it's just harder to come at FFVI for the first time with a whole context of other, more contemporary narrative-centric games. I feel like it tries to use a lot more dialogue and static set-pieces to push its story out than Chrono Trigger, and having sprites talk and act out a sweeping, serious, and sophisticated narrative was a pretty new idea. It may not make sense looking back, but at the time, FFVI used the medium to provide a narrative experience that you didn't really get a lot of. The AAA RPG with drama, emotion, intrigue, on a grand scale.
I remember at the time both games gave me this feeling I was experiencing something like a movie, but with the detail and scope of a novel, and with the sense of immersion of a video game. It was a unique feeling in my entertainment habits. Maybe FFVI relied more on the novelty of that sensation than Chrono Trigger ultimately did? CT has definitely aged better, but I think some of the same age spots are apparent in its storytelling as well.
Professor Beef
Banned
you're not alone OP, FF6 is a very boring game but that doesn't have anything to do with chrono trigger's greatness
ff6 is just a misstep
ff6 is just a misstep
Nose Master
Member
You should probably just play V. It's aged the best out of all of the classic FFs by a country mile.
VI is good and everything, but it's impossible for me to separate my opinion from nostalgia. The battle system is about as bare bones as it gets.
VI is good and everything, but it's impossible for me to separate my opinion from nostalgia. The battle system is about as bare bones as it gets.
Professor Beef
Banned
oh it got exactly the rerelease it deserved
This sums it up beautifully. The quirky, Saturday-morning-cartoon charm of Chrono Trigger lends itself well to the quaint 16bit graphics and sound. The epic steam punk opera that is FFVI is hard to take seriously these days.
Professor Beef
Banned
"epic"
Final Fantasy VI might just not be for you, then. Sure there are technical limitations with presentation, the game is pretty old after all, and as a JRPG it's pretty easy and doesn't explain a lot (which is a "relic" from the past, games tend to be way more user friendly nowadays), but the game is famed for its music, characters, world and plot. If it doesn't click with you, it might just not be your game - but I've played both FFVI and Chrono Trigger in the modern era, and personally prefer FFVI.
I don't think it's a "person's first RPG" thing, I find both games to still be top tier JRPGs, even considering the great games that came out after them. Because a turn based RPG system isn't particularly system taxing (correct me if I'm wrong), later turn based RPGs have objectively (as close to objectively as is reasonable) improved presentation (graphics, sound) and quality of life (see, Bravely Default), but stuff like plot, world, characters, music, and even gameplay - can stand the test of time, imo.
I don't think it's a "person's first RPG" thing, I find both games to still be top tier JRPGs, even considering the great games that came out after them. Because a turn based RPG system isn't particularly system taxing (correct me if I'm wrong), later turn based RPGs have objectively (as close to objectively as is reasonable) improved presentation (graphics, sound) and quality of life (see, Bravely Default), but stuff like plot, world, characters, music, and even gameplay - can stand the test of time, imo.
Kagoshima_Luke
Gold Member
jstevenson
Sailor Stevenson
Where the heck did all the VI haters come from?
VI is a game of two halves the first is pretty linear and story based, the second is fairly non linear.
It can be more challenging in the second half.
The haracters, music, technological medieval world, and story are what sets it apart. It's a bit of a slow burn at first but really gets moving and has some of the most memorable scenes of any JRPG.
Still a classic to this day
VI is a game of two halves the first is pretty linear and story based, the second is fairly non linear.
It can be more challenging in the second half.
The haracters, music, technological medieval world, and story are what sets it apart. It's a bit of a slow burn at first but really gets moving and has some of the most memorable scenes of any JRPG.
Still a classic to this day
You're not wrong.
Sir_Crocodile
Member
I never found FFVI particularly impressive either. Story always felt like it lacked cohesiveness to me personally, and I haven't bothered replaying it well over a decade.
CT is definitely on another level compared to it.
CT is definitely on another level compared to it.
BennyBlanco
aka IMurRIVAL69
CT is the pinnacle of the genre
Professor Beef
Banned
i don't know where all you people were hiding when i made my version of this thread, but i'm glad you're here now
you're not alone on the internet, and i am here for you always
I'm gonna be honest, watching Trigger fans and VI fans fight is hilarious. Sometimes it's a nice breather from all the other Final Fantasy series fans getting pitted against each other constantly with ranking lists.
As for OP, I think VI is great but it's not as timeless as Trigger. The core cast is well done(Locke, Terra, Celes, Sabin and Shadow) but the rest are boring.
As for OP, I think VI is great but it's not as timeless as Trigger. The core cast is well done(Locke, Terra, Celes, Sabin and Shadow) but the rest are boring.
Basileus777
Member
I'd actually place FF6 and Chrono Trigger in the same box of JRPGs from the era that really hold up well in everything but the combat, which is a trivially easy bore.
KojiKnight
Member
FF5 is the definition of overrated. FF4 would have been better if they cut out the entire underworld section. It's a power Spike and a retread and it gives another reason for Kain
to be an absolutely waste of space character.
cireza
Member
Never liked Final Fantasy VI. Never really liked the gameplays from older Final Fantasy games, they are totally broken and not very interesting to me. I still really like Final Fantasy IV however.
Chrono Trigger is indeed a much better game overall, much more balanced and consistent. Phantasy Star IV is another game I would put in this category.
Chrono Trigger is indeed a much better game overall, much more balanced and consistent. Phantasy Star IV is another game I would put in this category.
Telephone Man
Member
I played Chrono Trigger shortly after FFVI, and I ended up still preferring FFVI.
The openess, variety, secrets, and *coughglitchescough* in FFVI, along with having a bigger cast made Chrono Trigger feel too restrictive.
Plus while FFVI got more interesting as the game went on for me (fan of the World of Ruin), I stopped caring about Chrono Trigger's plot starting with the Zeal kingdom.
Couldn't disagree more. FFVII aged worse, and IX's battles aren't much fun at all. (Their soundtracks aren't as good either.)
The openess, variety, secrets, and *coughglitchescough* in FFVI, along with having a bigger cast made Chrono Trigger feel too restrictive.
Plus while FFVI got more interesting as the game went on for me (fan of the World of Ruin), I stopped caring about Chrono Trigger's plot starting with the Zeal kingdom.
Couldn't disagree more. FFVII aged worse, and IX's battles aren't much fun at all. (Their soundtracks aren't as good either.)
If i had to talk about an overrated FF, that would FF4 myself. You even mentionned why, Kain become boring after a while, the game lose all momentum after his first part with its story which... Isn't even that impressive nowadays. (It WAS a necessary step at the time thought) That being said, OP doesn't like how he feels FFVI is limited by its tech, maybe FFVI was just too ambitious compared to other RPG of its time ? FFIV surely don't have this problem.
I would never have thought to see so many people disliking FFVI, damn... I suppose at least people begin to like FFV now but that's a hard hit to take.
Now i wonder how GAF would react if someone said that FFVII was never that good...
You mean Yuji Horii famed vignette scenarios
Chrono Trigger is a combination between Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy philosophies.
encephalon
Member
On the face of it Terra "finding herself" in the
isn't bad, but something about it rubs me the wrong way.
orphanage
Her calling is to fulfill a role stereotypical to women - child rearing.
