WaffleTaco
Wants to outlaw technological innovation.
Also in case anyone doubts, Melisandre directly says Jon Snow is the Prince that was Promised in Season 6.
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*UNMARKED SPOILERS ALL BOOKS* Game of Thrones |OT| - Season 7 - Sundays on HBO
- Thread starter Cornballer
- Start date
And she said it was Stannis in Season 5. In Season 7 it's now a mistranslation. Worst prophecy ever.
Theon is the rightful ruler of the Iron Islands. He's every bit as valuable as, say, Sansa, so killing him would be so stupid as to be nearly unfathomable.
Like who? I can't think of anyone offhand.
Okay. If a married man with two children decides to seduce a 16 year old, have an affair, divorce his wife, elope with the 16 year old, marries her in secret, and immediately impregnates her while ensuring that she does not contact her family, I would say he's a fucking garbage human being too.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
it was different back then
back then you had to joust to win a persons heart
now a days you just need 50 instagram followers
I'm sure Rhaegar would have those 50 instagram followers tho
WaffleTaco
Wants to outlaw technological innovation.
Well to be fair it was Missendai who said it was mistranslation, and I think it's used to give Dany away as a red herring (for some reason). Maybe for the show only watchers.
Theon is not the rightful ruler, he has no cock and can give no heirs. He also has Asha, who can give heirs. Theon doesn't need anymore redemption than he already has. I would love to see him survive, but his usefulness to the plot is not much.
Ya'll don't think Rhaegar being a piece of shit kinda fits with Martin's universe? Everyone is flawed. Rhaegar as this supposedly tragic, prodigous paragon is actually unfitting. No one in this universe is as good as him.
He's also got Asha in chains. There's your rightful ruler to the Iron Islands.
As far as Stannis knows, Theon slew the Stark boys. Theon also supported two traitors, Robb and Balon. Stannis is a justice junkie. You do the math. TWOW:
He is, in fact, considering executing Theon.
He's also got Asha in chains. There's your rightful ruler to the Iron Islands.
Freshmaker
I am Korean.
Characters withholding vital info just to artificially create conflict where there shouldn't be any is the #1 lazy writing tactic that pisses me off.
"Littlefinger was hiding it in his room."
Conflict averted. Wouldn't even need Bran to redirect Sansa and Arya straight at LF's throat.
The fact his plan hinged on Arya keeping her source secret just demonstrates how god awful his plan really was.
I don't think anyone is saying it doesn't fit. Just that it's weird to go "oh, he got divorced and married Lyanna, so it's actually okay!"
It's not okay!
Exactly my point, just because Jon is now a legitimate Targaryan, doesn't make Rhaegar suddenly a good guy.
I blame Bran for saying that "he loved her", even though we have been shown that he didn't love her, but was obsessed with TPWP prophecy, and Lyanna was just a pawn in his chase for it.
If they were really just in love, there would be no annulment or secret marriage. The fact that it was all so meticulously planned shows Ragger Taggy was after something else. The legitimacy of Jon is a disgusting attempt to engineer a savior, and everyone suffered more for it. Gross.
Bran is an IDIOT.
ForkNetwork
Banned
indirectly? He knew the importance of his marriage to Elia and the alliance with Dorne
He probably knew that Lyanna was betrothed to Robert
He knew that he was next in the line of succession and running off with a 16-year-old would probably fuck that up
Stannis"s opinions on Rheagar are spot on.
And IIRC it is strongly implied that he intended to remove his father from the Throne to take over as King.
Lonewulfeus
Member
Isn't that just what the mad king thought he wanted to do?
Yeah the MK definitely thought he was going to do it, but I thought he was legitimately going to try it. I could of course be wrong.
elrechazado
Banned
Are people saying it's ok, or that it makes Jon legitimate by the laws of bastardy? Seems to be the latter, really.
Rhaegar would have probably made a better king than Aerys, but that's not a hard thing to do. Dude was definitely overly obsessed with prophecies and destinies and whatnot. Would have still probably been remember fondly by the Westerosi, like Baelor (who what we can surmise was a pretty bad king).
Moff
Member
Stannis burning Shireen is directly from GRRM and has been confirmed in 2 isntances
it's on the dvd commentary
"Although it has yet to feature in A Song Of Ice And Fire, George R.R. Martin has confirmed that it was always his intention for Stannis and Melisandre to sacrifice Shireen to the God of Light."
and this is the inside the episode of that episode
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NfLScJVXBHQ
"It's obviously the hardest choice in his life. And what it comes down to, is just ambition versus familial love, and for Stannis that choice is sadly ambition.
When George first told us about this, we just thought it was so horrible and so good because it all comes together. The very first time we saw Stannis and Melisandre they were sacrificing people and it's really all come to this"
as I said before, it needs to be Stannis who does it, everything else behind his back would be utter nonsense and bad writing. it needs to be his choice, the choice between duty and family needs to be his downfall. that's interesting writing. not someone else doing it behind his back without his interference.
burning shireen needs to be about Stannis, not someone betraying him. I don't understand why so many have a problem understanding that. it needs to be a consequence.
it's on the dvd commentary
"Although it has yet to feature in A Song Of Ice And Fire, George R.R. Martin has confirmed that it was always his intention for Stannis and Melisandre to sacrifice Shireen to the God of Light."
and this is the inside the episode of that episode
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NfLScJVXBHQ
"It's obviously the hardest choice in his life. And what it comes down to, is just ambition versus familial love, and for Stannis that choice is sadly ambition.
When George first told us about this, we just thought it was so horrible and so good because it all comes together. The very first time we saw Stannis and Melisandre they were sacrificing people and it's really all come to this"
as I said before, it needs to be Stannis who does it, everything else behind his back would be utter nonsense and bad writing. it needs to be his choice, the choice between duty and family needs to be his downfall. that's interesting writing. not someone else doing it behind his back without his interference.
burning shireen needs to be about Stannis, not someone betraying him. I don't understand why so many have a problem understanding that. it needs to be a consequence.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
Yeah, it perfectly fits in the downfall of stannis as a character.
A righteous man who is all about the justice, and at the same time he is slave to his duty. Melisandre tells him he's destined by the lord of light, and he gets it in his head that his justice is divine. So when the time comes to choose between familial duty or divine duty, he chooses the divine and it breaks him.
That is something that GRRM would write for his character, it's far too calculated for DD.
A righteous man who is all about the justice, and at the same time he is slave to his duty. Melisandre tells him he's destined by the lord of light, and he gets it in his head that his justice is divine. So when the time comes to choose between familial duty or divine duty, he chooses the divine and it breaks him.
That is something that GRRM would write for his character, it's far too calculated for DD.
Bounceounce
Member
It might not happen as it did on the show, but trust me it's coming, George set it up a long time ago:
"I never asked for this crown. Gold is cold and heavy on the head, but so long as I am the king, I have a duty If I must sacrifice one child to the flames to save a million from the dark Sacrifice is never easy, Davos. Or it is no true sacrifice."
Theon's living and has plenty of potential usefulness.
I seem to recall the same thing, I am sure someone indicated he was planning to get loyal lords together after The Trident.
Atraveller
Banned
Arya wasn't a master schemer, but she was at least street wise.
*Pretends to be shocked by Jon's identity reveal then slowly turns and looks at camera* Of course I knew Jon's true parentage all along.
Theon is going to get the chance to make amends for Robb and take his Ironborn south in support of a Stark brother.
Probably he's not going to have much choice because ice Jon won't be no dumb trusting soft touch Robb and Theon will have to do what he's told under threat of Jon taking Asha's head.
Or it'll go the other way and it will be Theon's head Jon holds over Asha, but Torgon the Latecomer heavily suggests it is Theon that will be doing the ruling.
Probably he's not going to have much choice because ice Jon won't be no dumb trusting soft touch Robb and Theon will have to do what he's told under threat of Jon taking Asha's head.
Or it'll go the other way and it will be Theon's head Jon holds over Asha, but Torgon the Latecomer heavily suggests it is Theon that will be doing the ruling.
WaffleTaco
Wants to outlaw technological innovation.
I think people are finding the logistics of it hard to understand and when it would occur. The show actually does a decent job of making it seem like he has to do it. The books have Shireen so far away from Stannis, with a dead Jon Snow who needs to be resurrected. Maybe Ghost is scarficed to save Jon?
What could Theon possibly add to the end-game of the book story? Show Theon is just going after Euron.
John Dunbar
correct about everything
there is a word for assassins who enjoy their jobs. and assassins are supposed to get paid. for her it's more like a hobby.
How do you that his ex wife didn't beat him and nagged at him when he got home from work? Used the kids against him even!
All he wanted was to take his pants, drink some kilk of the puppy and watch the Kings Landing vs Dorne game ffs.
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
Krombopulos Michael is an assassin who just loves killing!
ResidentWeevil13
Member
Good discussions going on in here.
The difference between ambition vs. duty means everything to me here. It felt like D&D didn't earn Stannis burning Shireen. It didn't ring true to where he was as a character at that moment.
I think Stannis may burn shireen, but I'd imagine the circumstances are going to be much more dire, and it's not going to be for ambition.
I really think that Stannis is going to win the battle of ice, and then later either be faced with the white walkers or Danny and her dragons. I'm leaning towards the white walkers ("save millions from the dark"), and in that dire situation choose to burn Shireen to try and save the realm.
I could see Stannis back at the wall with a dead Jon Snow, and white walkers at the gate, and him sacrifincg shireen which ends up resurecting Jon Snow. I admit that's a lot of conjecture and wishful thinking on my part though, but I feel like it makes more sense given where the characters are at in the book
Edit: Or maybe stannis loses the battle, escapes to the wall, and that's when he burns Shireen. I guess I could see that as well
The difference between ambition vs. duty means everything to me here. It felt like D&D didn't earn Stannis burning Shireen. It didn't ring true to where he was as a character at that moment.
I think Stannis may burn shireen, but I'd imagine the circumstances are going to be much more dire, and it's not going to be for ambition.
I really think that Stannis is going to win the battle of ice, and then later either be faced with the white walkers or Danny and her dragons. I'm leaning towards the white walkers ("save millions from the dark"), and in that dire situation choose to burn Shireen to try and save the realm.
I could see Stannis back at the wall with a dead Jon Snow, and white walkers at the gate, and him sacrifincg shireen which ends up resurecting Jon Snow. I admit that's a lot of conjecture and wishful thinking on my part though, but I feel like it makes more sense given where the characters are at in the book
Edit: Or maybe stannis loses the battle, escapes to the wall, and that's when he burns Shireen. I guess I could see that as well
sounds similar to Rob.
he married a girl because he thought she was hot. caused the downfall of the starks
Lord of Castamere
Member
Rhaegar didn't just fuck Lyanna because she was hot. Elia being frail and sickly, and Lyanna being wild and strong, definitely played a bigger role. They were both hot.
Ocarina_117
Banned
Rhaegar was a cunt.
Lyanna was a young fool.
The rebellion was started by the North, was it not? Buring the warden of the North and his first born alive would start a rebellion. That was not a lie.
I would like to again state my desire for a lot more Samwell next season. Underappreciated actor and character, he has actual charisma which cannot be said about the two current leads of the show. Managed to get a human moment out of Bran.
Lyanna was a young fool.
The rebellion was started by the North, was it not? Buring the warden of the North and his first born alive would start a rebellion. That was not a lie.
I would like to again state my desire for a lot more Samwell next season. Underappreciated actor and character, he has actual charisma which cannot be said about the two current leads of the show. Managed to get a human moment out of Bran.
Oldest Snake
Member
The Vale, actually. After killing Brandon & Rickard Stark Aerys demanded that Robert Baratheon & Ned Stark also be killed and for their bodies to be sent down to King's Landing, which Jon Arryn said fuck that to and called his banners.
That whole sequence in the finale seemed like a poor effort at whitewashing the Targaryens by laying the blame at the rebel's feet rather than the Targaryens.
demosthenes
Member
Theon is about to light Euron up.
Amazing.
Should also be mentioned that Jon Arryn's nephew, the heir to the Vale at that time, was also among those executed by the Mad King. So Jon, when he raised his banners in defiance, couldn't care less about 'the lie'.
It's all cocks in the end
Theon is about to light Euron up.
My first thought when I saw the scene.
I bet he has his 20 good men now!
I've always loved how Selmy and Jamie have mirrored storylines. Jamie goes from killing the king to discovering honor, Selmy goes from pure knight to overthrowing and imprisoning an innocent king. Really fascinating stuff. And I have no clue where either character is going (though both are in immediate peril).
CitizenVectron
Member
Who is the innocent King that Selmy has imprisoned?
WaffleTaco
Wants to outlaw technological innovation.
Hizdahr