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*UNMARKED SPOILERS ALL BOOKS* Game of Thrones |OT| - Season 7 - Sundays on HBO

B

Bounceounce

Member
WaffleTaco said:
I think people are finding the logistics of it hard to understand and when it would occur. The show actually does a decent job of making it seem like he has to do it. The books have Shireen so far away from Stannis, with a dead Jon Snow who needs to be resurrected. Maybe Ghost is scarficed to save Jon?

What could Theon possibly add to the end-game of the book story? Show Theon is just going after Euron.
Click to expand...
Well for one, he can bring his arc full circle by using his knowledged to help retake Winterfell in the name of Stannis or the name of Jon.

Secondly, in the event that Bran isn't leading Theon to the tree for a sacrifice, he can be used as an avatar for Bran or just have valuable information provided to him by Bran (maybe even get instructed to make a "Weirwood arrow").

Three, Dagmer Cleftjaw has been holding Torrhen's Square ever since ACOK,and considering that he's loyal to Theon/his true father figure, Asha/Theon could likely escape to him, or even sway Dagmer to join the cause of the north and Stannis which would give Stannis another valuable stronghold/white walkers if it comes to that/or the fight against Euron (I have no doubt that Theon and Dagmer will meet again).

Four, the Latecomer plan could still potentially come into play, we'll just have to wait and see about that.

Five, and all potential plot points aside he still needs to meet Jon Snow again which readers have been theorizing about for years, and the show just confirms it's even more likely to happen.

The idea that they're foils to each other isn't something that the show created, GRRM even made a detailed (unprompted) comment on the tie between the two of them just a week or two ago, it's going to happen.

Probably more I haven't even thought off.

Edit:

He didn't go through all of he's gone through just to die/be sacrificed in front of a weirwood, there's still character development that Theon needs to go through, hell I even forgot that he's probably going to see his mother again and resolve that plot thread.
 
B

BreezyLimbo

Banned
Gigglepoo said:
I've always loved how Selmy and Jamie have mirrored storylines. Jamie goes from killing the king to discovering honor, Selmy goes from pure knight to overthrowing and imprisoning an innocent king. Really fascinating stuff. And I have no clue where either character is going (though both are in immediate peril).
Click to expand...

Who did selmy imprison?
 
Y

Yabberwocky

Member
Tubs_McNubs said:
The difference between ambition vs. duty means everything to me here. It felt like D&D didn't earn Stannis burning Shireen. It didn't ring true to where he was as a character at that moment.

I think Stannis may burn shireen, but I'd imagine the circumstances are going to be much more dire, and it's not going to be for ambition.
Click to expand...

Yeah, absolutely, especially on the difference ambition vs. duty. It's funny, ambition isn't a word that I'd associate with Stannis at all - well, book Stannis, at least - because everything about his character always comes back to his duty, through anecdotes, backstory, dialogue. He hates a lot of what he does, but he does it, through gritted teeth, because he thinks it is his duty. Great or small, we must do our duty, etc. I also think he'd quite willing sacrifice himself as well if that is what needed to be done (well, again, book Stannis). One of my many problems with Stannis and Shireen in the show - I can see Stannis making that choice, but the stakes would have to be extremely dire. She's his heir, as he says again and again in the books, he's quite protective of her. If he's sacrificing Shireen, the situation has to be pretty fucked beyond repair - not just Ramsey's twenty good men.

The stakes for the show didn't feel nearly as dire for Stannis to make that step - again, his heir. It just felt more like, eh, we're killing both of these characters off, let's do it with a nice, neat child-sacrificing bow, and throw in some Daddy/Daughter bonding to drive the knife home for more shock value!

(Only in ASOIAF can you have a cheery conversation about child sacrifice!)
 
B

BreezyLimbo

Banned
Gigglepoo said:
Dany's nobleman husband from Meereen. Selmy thought he was behind the Sons of the Harpys so he killed his guards, imprisoned him, and took over as the ruler in Dany's absence.

Man, the Meereen stuff in Dance is so good!
Click to expand...

Oooh.

He REALLY wasn't behind the son of the harpy things? Hrmm. I thought the reveal at the later stages was that he was in fact behind it?
 
E

elrechazado

Banned
Gigglepoo said:
We don't know for sure but there are some excellent theories about Meereen.

Preston Jacobs has some fun videos: https://youtu.be/SOqNoDYwyqs

And this is a cool blog, too: https://www.google.com/amp/s/meeree...ese-knot-part-i-who-poisoned-the-locusts/amp/
Click to expand...
Preston Jacobs is terrible...he was adamant forever about how Jon isn't lyanna and rhaegar's, bizarre theories about the bloody mummers being dornish agents, etc. Just the worst in terms of ignoring the text to make theories
 
A

Azzanadra

Member
elrechazado said:
Preston Jacobs is terrible...he was adamant forever about how Jon isn't lyanna and rhaegar's, bizarre theories about the bloody mummers being dornish agents, etc. Just the worst in terms of ignoring the text to make theories
Click to expand...

He's out there with his theories, but his reviews of the TV show are simply the best- he's like the only prominent GOT youtuber to actually criticize the show, and by god, are his reviews proper scathing!
 
W

WaffleTaco

Wants to outlaw technological innovation.
Bounceounce said:
Well for one, he can bring his arc full circle by using his knowledged to help retake Winterfell in the name of Stannis or the name of Jon.

Secondly, in the event that Bran isn't leading Theon to the tree for a sacrifice, he can be used as an avatar for Bran or just have valuable information provided to him by Bran (maybe even get instructed to make a "Weirwood arrow").

Three, Dagmer Cleftjaw has been holding Torrhen's Square ever since ACOK,and considering that he's loyal to Theon/his true father figure, Asha/Theon could likely escape to him, or even sway Dagmer to join the cause of the north and Stannis which would give Stannis another valuable stronghold/white walkers if it comes to that/or the fight against Euron (I have no doubt that Theon and Dagmer will meet again).

Four, the Latecomer plan could still potentially come into play, we'll just have to wait and see about that.

Five, and all potential plot points aside he still needs to meet Jon Snow again which readers have been theorizing about for years, and the show just confirms it's even more likely to happen.

The idea that they're foils to each other isn't something that the show created, GRRM even made a detailed (unprompted) comment on the tie between the two of them just a week or two ago, it's going to happen.

Probably more I haven't even thought off.

Edit:

He didn't go through all of he's gone through just to die/be sacrificed in front of a weirwood, there's still character development that Theon needs to go through, hell I even forgot that he's probably going to see his mother again and resolve that plot thread.
Click to expand...
You make so good points...what's the latecomer plan? And why does he need to meet Jon? I guess there's still some stuff he could do...I just feel as if he is better off dead; sometimes characters don't get too finish off every plot point.

Branduil said:
Hizdahr is very likely connected to the Harpies.
Click to expand...
Most evidence points to not. Plus he's too obvious a suspect.
 
G

Gigglepoo

Member
elrechazado said:
Preston Jacobs is terrible...he was adamant forever about how Jon isn't lyanna and rhaegar's, bizarre theories about the bloody mummers being dornish agents, etc. Just the worst in terms of ignoring the text to make theories
Click to expand...

I love Preston's videos. He often comes up with his own theories and has the text evidence to back it up. Even if it doesn't line up with consensus, they're still well-researched and fascinating. At least to me.

And it does feel like he's more detail oriented than even Martin at times. Like when he pointed out that it would be nearly impossible from a logistical standpoint for a faceless man to kill Balon. Plus, he's the only theorist I've seen try to puzzle out why Ned spends so much time thinking of Dany but almost never thinks about Jon.

And he's totally right about Dany's childhood being a lie. Lemons don't grow in Bravos!

But I get why people don't like him. He's tinfoil. As much as I love the well-researched and produced theories from Radio Westeros and Alt Shift X, it's the crazy (but still backed by text!) theories that have made the wait between books not feel so long.
 
W

WaffleTaco

Wants to outlaw technological innovation.
Gigglepoo said:
I love Preston's videos. He often comes up with his own theories and has the text evidence to back it up. Even if it doesn't line up with consensus, they're still well-researched and fascinating. At least to me.

And it does feel like he's more detail oriented than even Martin at times. Like when he pointed out that it would be nearly impossible from a logistical standpoint for a faceless man to kill Balon. Plus, he's the only theorist I've seen try to puzzle out why Ned spends so much time thinking of Dany but almost never thinks about Jon.

And he's totally right about Dany's childhood being a lie. Lemons don't grow in Bravos!

But I get why people don't like him. He's tinfoil. As much as I love the well-researched and produced theories from Radio Westeros and Alt Shift X, it's the crazy (but still backed by text!) theories that have made the wait between books not feel so long.
Click to expand...
I'm also intrigued enough to watch, but I have seen the whole "Not Lemons in Bravos" thing before. I think GRRM makes his characters unreliable narrators. Plus Dany was young so mistakes can be made. And Ned doesn't think about Jon because if he did, he would reveal (to the audience) about Jon's parantage. And he does think about Dany because that's who Robert wants to kill because she's a Targaryen. Which in fact is a substitute for thinking about Jon.
 
T

Tuck

Member
Edzi said:
There are so many people posting in this thread who have clearly never read the books.
Click to expand...

Books came out a long time ago. Easy to forget things.

I reread the series two years ago and I was shocked at how much I had forgotten (or missed the first time).
 
A

Atraveller

Banned
Forkball said:
Theon is about to light Euron up.


anLSzZn.png
Click to expand...
Oh shit!
 
L

Lord of Castamere

Member
I wonder how they'll do Theon? 1v1 vs Euron with the Golden Company/Iron Islanders encircling them? I really hope they don't have 20 men defeating Eurons army straight. Whatever happens, Asha is bringing both sides back to the North. I think Theon will die in Essos.
 
K

KahooTs

Member
WaffleTaco said:
You make so good points...what's the latecomer plan?
Click to expand...

"Torgon Greyiron was the king's eldest son. But the king was old and Torgon restless, so it happened that when his father died he was raiding along the Mander from his stronghold on Greyshield. His brothers sent no word to him but instead quickly called a kingsmoot, thinking that one of them would be chosen to wear the driftwood crown. But the captains and the kings chose Urragon Goodbrother to rule instead. The first thing the new king did was command that all the sons of the old king be put to death, and so they were. After that men called him Badbrother, though in truth they'd been no kin of his. He ruled for almost two years."

Asha remembered now. "Torgon came home …"

"… and said the kingsmoot was unlawful since he had not been there to make his claim. Badbrother had proved to be as mean as he was cruel and had few friends left upon the isles. The priests denounced him, the lords rose against him, and his own captains hacked him into pieces. Torgon the Latecomer became the king and ruled for forty years."

Asha took Tris Botley by the ears and kissed him full upon the lips. He was red and breathless by the time she let him go. "What was that?" he said.
Click to expand...

On the side, Asha wants Sea Dragon point and to change the Ironborn culture. But the northern lords would never let the Ironborn settle in the north, right? Only the two nearest neighbours to Sea Dragon point is Deepwood Motte and Bear Island. Asha holds Lady Sybelle of Deepwood's children and Lady Sybelle says Asha treated her fairly. And Alysanne Mormont is Asha's minder for Stannis, gruff fighting women, won't be long before she and Asha are fighting side by side.

TKITN would have the power to give Asha what she wants, but what could she offer in return? Besides what is left of the Ironborn's loyalty, those scrubs left behind by Euron that will be as much a burden as an asset. Sellswords, those that Stannis sent Justin Massey to get, whom he promised Asha in marriage to if he is to succeed. So, Justin gets his reward, Asha, she gets Sea Dragon Point, and Jon gets the sellswords.
 
G

Gigglepoo

Member
Meereen in Dance is like the political drama in AGoT King's Landing chapters except we have no clue who to trust or what's really going on. It did a great job of making me feel as off balance as Dany and Selmy and you realize how hard it must be to rule where you're a stranger. Every time I reread Dance I find more and more details that make me appreciate how deviously constructed it is.
 
D

dabig2

Member
Lord of Castamere said:
I wonder how they'll do Theon? 1v1 vs Euron with the Golden Company/Iron Islanders encircling them? I really hope they don't have 20 men defeating Eurons army straight. Whatever happens, Asha is bringing both sides back to the North. I think Theon will die in Essos.
Click to expand...

sall_trans_NvBQzQNjv4Bq_yHCl97T-pmmS890d_-lMKjEYYWsurPnTFvlq9icOFE.jpg


Time for my boy, Salladhor Saan, to come triumphantly back into the story. He might help Theon punch Euron in the mouth, especially if he considers this self-proclaimed "greatest captain of the 14 seas" as competition.
 
Phoenix RISING

Phoenix RISING

Banned
Tubs_McNubs said:
Isaac Hempstead, aka Bran, gave an interview where he talks about a deleted scene where he helps Sansa realize LittleFinger is bad.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/arts-and-entertainment/wp/2017/08/29/we-talked-to-isaac-hempstead-wright-and-understand-brans-three-eyed-raven-powers-a-lot-better-now/?utm_term=.1a48f69e9a3e

Here’s some quotes:






So to those who were under the impression that Arya and Sansa may have been pretending to fight this season, that wasn’t the case. Anyway, with or without this scene, I still think this is one of the worst story lines ever in the show. Sansa never became the great “game-player”. She’s never had a victory that’s been all her own. I honestly don’t think she’s gotten all that much smarter since season one.



Haha, I thought the same thing when I read that bit
Click to expand...

As a book reader who does not watch the show, I take solace that it is
Jeyne Poole posing as Sansa when they are to be wed, and that the true Sansa is still at the Vale with Littlefinger.
I'd actually love to see Sansa get through the series as being a static character while everyone else grinds.
 
D

Dany

Banned
Tubs_McNubs said:
Isaac Hempstead, aka Bran, gave an interview where he talks about a deleted scene where he helps Sansa realize LittleFinger is bad.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/arts-and-entertainment/wp/2017/08/29/we-talked-to-isaac-hempstead-wright-and-understand-brans-three-eyed-raven-powers-a-lot-better-now/?utm_term=.1a48f69e9a3e

Here’s some quotes:






So to those who were under the impression that Arya and Sansa may have been pretending to fight this season, that wasn’t the case. Anyway, with or without this scene, I still think this is one of the worst story lines ever in the show. Sansa never became the great “game-player”. She’s never had a victory that’s been all her own. I honestly don’t think she’s gotten all that much smarter since season one.



Haha, I thought the same thing when I read that bit
Click to expand...

Good thing that isn't canon.
 
S

SteveWD40

Member
dabig2 said:
sall_trans_NvBQzQNjv4Bq_yHCl97T-pmmS890d_-lMKjEYYWsurPnTFvlq9icOFE.jpg


Time for my boy, Salladhor Saan, to come triumphantly back into the story. He might help Theon punch Euron in the mouth, especially if he considers this self-proclaimed "greatest captain of the 14 seas" as competition.
Click to expand...

Do fucking want.

He was last seen taking gold to ferry Stannis and co North of the Wall but not since.
 
P

PHOENIXZERO

Member
What if Cersei just dies in childbirth and the baby is stillborn too?

I mean, Jaime kind of kills her that way since he got her pregnant, as lame is it is.
 
S

secondspace

Member
Gigglepoo said:
I love Preston's videos. He often comes up with his own theories and has the text evidence to back it up. Even if it doesn't line up with consensus, they're still well-researched and fascinating. At least to me.

And it does feel like he's more detail oriented than even Martin at times. Like when he pointed out that it would be nearly impossible from a logistical standpoint for a faceless man to kill Balon. Plus, he's the only theorist I've seen try to puzzle out why Ned spends so much time thinking of Dany but almost never thinks about Jon.

And he's totally right about Dany's childhood being a lie. Lemons don't grow in Bravos!

But I get why people don't like him. He's tinfoil. As much as I love the well-researched and produced theories from Radio Westeros and Alt Shift X, it's the crazy (but still backed by text!) theories that have made the wait between books not feel so long.
Click to expand...
I wonder if I'm buying into his theories too easily as a way to explain things I find odd in the text (Lord Commander Snow), but at the same time, it's obvious that Doran, Viserys, the northern factions and the maesters all have their own secret plans to some extent.
 
F

Forkball

Member
Yeah I think it's very possible that Shireen gets burned in the books. "Waking dragons from stone" is a longstanding theory. I'm gonna give GRRM the benefit of the doubt here and say that it's built up and executed in a far better way than in the show.

Also the Green Grace is behind the harpies. It is known. Hizdahr is probably in on it, but he could be innocent with the only crime being his hair.
 
Kiraly

Kiraly

Member
Alright guys, having seen season 7 and faintly remembering the books (which I did not finish), wasn't there this Targaryen prince Tyrion found on his way to Daenarys in the lands to the east? Am I just going crazy or what the fuck is up with that
 
O

Oldest Snake

Member
Kiraly said:
Alright guys, having seen season 7 and faintly remembering the books (which I did not finish), wasn't there this Targaryen prince Tyrion found on his way to Daenarys in the lands to the east? Am I just going crazy or what the fuck is up with that
Click to expand...

You ain't wrong. Well, you (along with everyone else) are quite likely wrong... we just don't know we're wrong yet. He's cut from the show though.
 
R

ResidentWeevil13

Member
Phoenix RISING said:
As a book reader who does not watch the show, I take solace that it is
Jeyne Poole posing as Sansa when they are to be wed, and that the true Sansa is still at the Vale with Littlefinger.
I'd actually love to see Sansa get through the series as being a static character while everyone else grinds.
Click to expand...

No need to spoiler tag book spoilers in this thread.

Also Jeyne Poole is actually posing as Arya in the books, not Sansa
 
L

Lord of Castamere

Member
dabig2 said:
sall_trans_NvBQzQNjv4Bq_yHCl97T-pmmS890d_-lMKjEYYWsurPnTFvlq9icOFE.jpg


Time for my boy, Salladhor Saan, to come triumphantly back into the story. He might help Theon punch Euron in the mouth, especially if he considers this self-proclaimed "greatest captain of the 14 seas" as competition.
Click to expand...

Saan, Darrio, and Theon are going to triple team Euron. Has to happen now.
 
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