DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Now imagine if they optimized to the metal on the current Pro/X and SX.
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Rumor : Xbox Lockhart Reveal soon: 4Tf, Limited next gen features
- Thread starter Agnostic2020
- Start date
Now imagine if they optimized to the metal on the current Pro/X and SX.
On PC, going from 4K to 1080p gets you around 2.6x more performance, not accounting for games being cpu limited at 1080p.
ASRock Radeon RX 5600 XT Phantom Gaming D3 Review - The First Real Custom Design
ASRock's Radeon RX 5600 XT Phantom Gaming D3 is the first card that was designed from the ground up as an RX 5600 XT; it isn't just an RX 5700 XT design with the RX 5600 XT GPU slapped on. Thanks to a BIOS update, the card runs at the highest spec allowed by AMD yet remains cool and quiet.
Moreover in the games Digital Foundry tested, a 4 TF Navi card at 1080p was faster than a 9.2TF 5700 XT at 4K by 28%-66%. And in several of the games the 4TF card was almost level at 1440p.
D
Deleted member 775630
Unconfirmed Member
Indeed, and that's the whole idea of this system. People that only have 1080p or even lower tv screens can use this device. Maybe they are even targeting lower developed countries, although then a $300 price target would still be quite high.
Psykodad
Banned
Releasing Lockhart day 1 will be the dumbest thing for MS to do, exactly for the reasons you mention.
No matter the pricing, if Sony positions PS5 strategically, Lockhart will completely mess up MS' next-gen launch and likely the entire gen again.
Ps5.
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turtlepowa
Banned
Depending on the price the perfect 1080@60 cod/fifa/fortnite/bf/madden/2k console for the casual gamer.
jonnyp
Member
No it isn't. Lockhart only makes sense if they discontinue the One X. Lockhart should be more than capable of running every Xbox One game as well as a One X and will run also support next gen games.
joe_zazen
Member
three areas where they can save money are apu, memory, hdd/ssd. What price they are aiming for will dictate how much they strip out. They need the drive because cost conscious people will want used games, especially super cheap x1 games.
my guess is 256 ssd, 8gb ram, 4 tf apu and a $199 price point.
Fun Fanboy
Banned
A poll on GAF on Xbox? yeah. I'd trust that poll on what people want from Xbox.
Again. XSX games won't be hampered by Lockhart. Just like CPU games aren't shit because of my low powered PC. It's really easy.
Curious. Are you an Xbox fan? Are you buying the console? The series X? Because either way. There's nothing to worry about. The games won't be messed up because of base models. Just like games for the Pro and 1X weren't messed up.
Thirty7ven
Banned
Business wise that’s what makes sense. Why is this “scary”? I don’t get it.
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sonomamashine
Member
Sorry but no.
Daniel_Mallorca1985
Member
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I'm pulling for Lockhart pretty hard because I want video games to be more affordable. Not everyone wants to (or can) spend $500 on a console. $300-$350 for next gen games at 1080p with lower quality textures/shadows would be a good value. Matching frame rate, up to 60fps, is most important.
Price needs to be right, though. $150 difference from PS5/XSX at minimum.
Price needs to be right, though. $150 difference from PS5/XSX at minimum.
Agnostic2020
Member
On PC, going from 4K to 1080p gets you around 2.6x more performance, not accounting for games being cpu limited at 1080p.
ASRock Radeon RX 5600 XT Phantom Gaming D3 Review - The First Real Custom Design
ASRock's Radeon RX 5600 XT Phantom Gaming D3 is the first card that was designed from the ground up as an RX 5600 XT; it isn't just an RX 5700 XT design with the RX 5600 XT GPU slapped on. Thanks to a BIOS update, the card runs at the highest spec allowed by AMD yet remains cool and quiet.www.techpowerup.com
Moreover in the games Digital Foundry tested, a 4 TF Navi card at 1080p was faster than a 9.2TF 5700 XT at 4K by 28%-66%. And in several of the games the 4TF card was almost level at 1440p.
5700 xt is weaker than next gen consoles and its rdna1 which has lower performance than ps5 and xsx. Also there is no mandate fir a dev to hit native 4k on ps5 or xsx. They can easily aim for 1600p on xsx and 1500p on ps5. In that case lockhart has to hit 720p. Which is still fine imo
Agnostic2020
Member
Where is that from ? Ms is not gonna charge 400$ for a 4tf console .thats bullshit
Aidah
Member
If it's series X with a 4TF RDNA2 GPU then neither of those two consoles can come close in terms of overall experience.
geordiemp
Member
No, they will clock the lockart same as XSX, for CPU and GPU, 16 CU is my guess for 4 TF.
No way will MS clock lower for a smaller APU. Rubbish.
DaGwaphics
Member
Mess, you can't even make those numbers work for the GDDR6.
My guess, CPU 3.2Ghz, GPU 18CUs @ 1.8Ghz, 12GB GDDR6 @336GBs, 500GB SSD, no BR drive, $299
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Joho79
Member
Im with you 100%. I will most probably get an series X but if Sony released a cheaper machine I would get that for the few exclusives I would want.
sonomamashine
Member
This is a joke bro.
Sure, but that doesn't mean the performance scaling from 4K to 1080p will be massively different, since Lockhart will also be using RDNA2.
geordiemp
Member
Not if Ps5 is $500 and XSX is $600 which is my guess.
Ps5 is not too different costs to XSX just approx 16 less CU
Lockart is 16 less CU than Ps5 maybe, less RAM maybe,. It needs same SSD and CPU and drive (as low cost buys need physical).
It will be interesting, as assembly, shipping, retail and so many items are the similar.....
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Agnostic2020
Member
This makes the most sense
Agnostic2020
Member
Well ofcourse just like now ps4 and x1 are main focus and pro and 1x are higher resolution higher frame machines
sonomamashine
Member
I'm not buying Lockhart is a 4TF console, my guesses :
between 5/6TF at 349$
PS5 449/499$
XBSX 499$
between 5/6TF at 349$
PS5 449/499$
XBSX 499$
This is silly. Microsoft is genius for having an entry level next gen console as well as a standard one. Most people aren't dying to drop 600 bucks on a new game machine.
geordiemp
Member
Why would you clock lower on a smaller APU that generates less heat ?
CPU and GPU will clock the same on Lockart as XSX as a minimum for sure, and to make development of games easier it would make sense to have them the same clocks, especially the CPU. So 3.6 / 3.8 Ghz.
Thirty7ven
Banned
There’s nothing genius about it. It’s a necessity. They wouldn’t be able to compete otherwise.
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DaGwaphics
Member
I would generally agree, but in what WC mentioned about Lockhart (they haven't been wrong on much so far) was that the CPU was down-clocked slightly. 3.8 > 3.2 is only 12% so it depends on what they consider slight. PC benchmarks do show some CPU overhead for 4k, so that might play into things.
I've seen those higher TF estimates. They've done a better job keeping this system under wraps than XSX. LOL
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I'd bet 75% or more of their sales for next gen will be this model.
metareferential
Member
+ Same cpu, same architecture, same ssd, ram
- mid-range gpu, less storage, less bandwidth maybe?
With AI upscaling making incredible strides already today, I can see this 1080p console being a great choice for many.
299 at launch.
- mid-range gpu, less storage, less bandwidth maybe?
With AI upscaling making incredible strides already today, I can see this 1080p console being a great choice for many.
299 at launch.
Gamernyc78
Banned
I respect your opinion. I think it'll be around 20% after it flatens out.
When you consider how consumers come from all different types of economic backgrounds and have different levels of fandom, this is genius. They don't have to justify to the average person why their console is worth 600 dollars, its a low barrier for entry for anyone interested.
For the enthusiasts there will be the X, and as much as people "on the internet" will disagree, the majority of people buying game systems don't care about Teraflops or know what they are. They want to play the newest games and that's all.
GHG
Gold Member
Yeh, a poll on GAF, a forum full of gamers who are Microsoft's potential customers. A forum full of people Microsoft need to convince if they want to start gaining market share. And no, everyone is not just a "hater".
I'm an Xbox customer and I don't need to be a certified "fan" to have an opinion and voice my thoughts on something that will definitely have implications on future games that I will play (1st party games) and potential implications industry wide (3rd party games).
The base models are what developers build and make game design decisions around, this has always been the case.
Jtibh
Banned
I love the comments here.
4tf console will do raytracing but a 10 teraflop console will suffer.
And at 299 who will buy if xbox x is already 299 at 6 tflops
Or 4tf rdna2 is more than 6tf gcn but then who will buy the xbox x for 299 when i can have the lockhart that does more for same price?
Price will be 399 xbox series x will be 599 and i also expect ps5 to be at 599.
Once the market gets back to normal we may see a price drop.
I tell you it was easier to pick a console in 95 between saturn 3do jaguar playstation 32x erc than it is now.
4tf console will do raytracing but a 10 teraflop console will suffer.
And at 299 who will buy if xbox x is already 299 at 6 tflops
Or 4tf rdna2 is more than 6tf gcn but then who will buy the xbox x for 299 when i can have the lockhart that does more for same price?
Price will be 399 xbox series x will be 599 and i also expect ps5 to be at 599.
Once the market gets back to normal we may see a price drop.
I tell you it was easier to pick a console in 95 between saturn 3do jaguar playstation 32x erc than it is now.
loktaiextatus
Member
I know others have said and are thinking this but.... Yesterday the line from most Microsoft fans was that a Teraflop is a Teraflop is a Teraflop
and nothing else can bottleneck the teraflop and the teraflop is king basically. Now we see a possibility of a 4TF (Really??) console and
I am hearing nothing but that it has secret sauce to break an xbox one X in performance despite being 4tf vs 6.
I get the CPU THING- I agree. I dont know where the CPU will be clocked maybe its equal to the series X? Would sure make up for
a ton of the difference in GPU making games unplayable would basically limit the machine to 1080P though running games meant
to run on a 12tf GPU at 4k... maybe thats its market.... If you ask me the system is going to have a 500gb SSD and thats
where the sacrifice was made - on the GPU power because the real bottleneck last generation was the CPU and storage?
or because its intended to run at a lower resolution and the rest of the hardware is comparable minus maybe some storage space
(is expandable anyway) and so is going to offer a very similar experience just scaled down. 4tf VS 12 only makes sense for running the
same game if the way it runs them is on a totally different level like that.
This isnt meant to troll, I just hope that maybe people calm down with the teraflop stuff until we see some games.
Since TFLOPS are being thrown around so much, and used as a unit of measure, as a guy with an Xbox one X thinking that a 4TF xbox
is going to get the newer games and my 6TF existing system wont.... dammit.
But didnt microsoft also say the first year wont see any exclusives that arent also on the Xbox one? I think that was what they said and
if thats true theres no reason to hold back on buying an X right now - In fact they may close them out for a nice price. Worth it just for
the existing library if you get it cheap.
and nothing else can bottleneck the teraflop and the teraflop is king basically. Now we see a possibility of a 4TF (Really??) console and
I am hearing nothing but that it has secret sauce to break an xbox one X in performance despite being 4tf vs 6.
I get the CPU THING- I agree. I dont know where the CPU will be clocked maybe its equal to the series X? Would sure make up for
a ton of the difference in GPU making games unplayable would basically limit the machine to 1080P though running games meant
to run on a 12tf GPU at 4k... maybe thats its market.... If you ask me the system is going to have a 500gb SSD and thats
where the sacrifice was made - on the GPU power because the real bottleneck last generation was the CPU and storage?
or because its intended to run at a lower resolution and the rest of the hardware is comparable minus maybe some storage space
(is expandable anyway) and so is going to offer a very similar experience just scaled down. 4tf VS 12 only makes sense for running the
same game if the way it runs them is on a totally different level like that.
This isnt meant to troll, I just hope that maybe people calm down with the teraflop stuff until we see some games.
Since TFLOPS are being thrown around so much, and used as a unit of measure, as a guy with an Xbox one X thinking that a 4TF xbox
is going to get the newer games and my 6TF existing system wont.... dammit.
But didnt microsoft also say the first year wont see any exclusives that arent also on the Xbox one? I think that was what they said and
if thats true theres no reason to hold back on buying an X right now - In fact they may close them out for a nice price. Worth it just for
the existing library if you get it cheap.
Thirty7ven
Banned
Obviously MS will need this model to sell well, they won’t be able to just half ass it. From the moment they put it on the market, it will become their main SKU in terms of reaching out to gamers.
If it fails to attract a wider audience it will have been a terrible move for the brand, devaluing it greatly in the process. But I don’t think there’s another way.
If it fails to attract a wider audience it will have been a terrible move for the brand, devaluing it greatly in the process. But I don’t think there’s another way.
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DaGwaphics
Member
If lockhart exists, 1X is dead. Easy, no choice, the units won't be on shelves together.
Fun Fanboy
Banned
I respect your opinion as well. I think it's important to look at Xbox 360 Pro and Core/Arcade. While no numbers exist to differentiate them, I know from personal interactions with friends in retail that it seemed like Core was easily the better selling version.
Grinchy
Banned
So let me just ask you and anyone who wanted to answer a simple question:
If there was only a 6TF Xbox One X for this entire generation, would Forza Horizon 4, Gears 5, Halo 5, ect, all look exactly as they do now? Or would they be much more advanced?
If you feel that they'd actually be technically superior because of the fact that they were made for a high-end 6TF X and didn't have to run on anything else, then you have to also agree that having only a 12TF XSX would do the same.
If you feel that the games would look exactly the same as they do now because that's the max you can get out of the X because everything is being made for it first and "downscaled" for the regular Xbox One, then MS PR is incredible at what they do and you've been drinking the Kool-Aid.
Microsoft is discontinuing X1X, so yep...
Daniel_Mallorca1985
Member
Neo_game
Member
Devs target the lowest common denominator as it is easy for them to simply increase the resolution and can enable RT to use more power console.
GHG
Gold Member
I've literally already said this:
Contrary to what you think they do need to convince people on this site and it's not just this site either.
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gamerforever
Banned
Exciting news in terms of the pricepoint and the fact that I am stuck at home, so any news is exciting. I just do not think that the Xbox brand is strong enough to carry a lower pricepoint console. They also do not have the big exclusives and I just think this is going to confuse people.
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Agnostic2020
Member
Well if that true then it means software RT but at 250 I will be impressed