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[DF] Marvel's Avengers PS5 vs Xbox Series S/X

Concern

Member
If we are to accept that tools might indeed be an issue in some cases, we might as well accept that crossgen cames in some cases use PS4 pro settings because the sources in both cases are the only ones with first hand experience: the devs


The thing is its not accepted. Just like Dirt 5 with the bug on XSX. It wasn't accepted that it was bugged lol. Now they're crying "bu bu but ps4 port"... no.

We're not going to only nitpick excuses when it fits the narrative because some fanboys are hurt over a faceoff.
 

MonarchJT

Banned
If we are to accept that tools might indeed be an issue in some cases, we might as well accept that crossgen cames in some cases use PS4 pro settings because the sources in both cases are the only ones with first hand experience: the devs
this then would be even worst seeing the xsx seem to have the same if not better perf
 

MonarchJT

Banned
They're using the PlayStation 4 Pro setup for this game.

ok but not being a title in BC and having new "next gen" code, the game could exploit the full features of the hw unlike the games in BC. If you use "only" the ps4pro settings how come it fails to be significantly higher in terms of performance than the xsx?
 

DForce

NaughtyDog Defense Force
ok but not being a title in BC and having new "next gen" code, the game could exploit the full features of the hw unlike the games in BC. If you use "only" the ps4pro settings how come it fails to be significantly higher in terms of performance than the xsx?
They said setup, not settings.

They're referring to CB dynamic resolution and specifically states that it wasn't because a "dramatic performance reasons."
 

Topher

Gold Member
The thing is its not accepted. Just like Dirt 5 with the bug on XSX. It wasn't accepted that it was bugged lol. Now they're crying "bu bu but ps4 port"... no.

We're not going to only nitpick excuses when it fits the narrative because some fanboys are hurt over a faceoff.

There is no "we". Look.....if someone specifically does exactly what you are saying in dismissing any and all "excuses" in one comparison and then turns around and embraces any and all "excuses" in another then call them out, by all means. But you are generalizing heavily here and trying to use that broad generalization to dismiss information from the developer about this game. Were you making those same arguments about Dirt 5? That they were excuses and should be dismissed?

ok but not being a title in BC and having new "next gen" code, the game could exploit the full features of the hw unlike the games in BC. If you use "only" the ps4pro settings how come it fails to be significantly higher in terms of performance than the xsx?

But the two perform nearly exactly the same in quality mode. The devs said it was a decision unrelated to performance. We don't have any other information than that.
 
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MonarchJT

Banned
They said setup, not settings.

They're referring to CB dynamic resolution and specifically states that it wasn't because a "dramatic performance reasons."
and did you believe it? the ps5 renders the game at a lower resolution with the same performance as the xsx.
 

DForce

NaughtyDog Defense Force
and did you believe it? the ps5 renders the game at a lower resolution with the same performance as the xsx.

It renders at 4K Natively which is comparable to the XsX and very close. You would think it could achieve a lower resolution\settings just to hit 60fps.


So why wouldn't we trust their word, unless you automatically think they're a liar.
 

Concern

Member
There is no "we". Look.....if someone specifically does exactly what you are saying in dismissing any and all "excuses" in one comparison and then turns around and embraces any and all "excuses" in another then call them out, by all means. But you are generalizing heavily here and trying to use that broad generalization to dismiss information from the developer about this game. Were you making those same arguments about Dirt 5? That they were excuses and should be dismissed?


Nope, i made no excuses in Dirts thread. Im not invested enough to care over a "win" in a faceoff as if either result would ruin my enjoyment of a game.

Even when devs acknowledged it was a bug, it was still "excuses". But since the shoe is on the foot now, its a legitimate thing.

Only a fool would believe their favorite plastic box would outperform its competitor in every faceoff.
 

jhjfss

Member
Tool Werkzeug GIF by Die Meisterleister GmbH
 

MonarchJT

Banned
There is no "we". Look.....if someone specifically does exactly what you are saying in dismissing any and all "excuses" in one comparison and then turns around and embraces any and all "excuses" in another then call them out, by all means. But you are generalizing heavily here and trying to use that broad generalization to dismiss information from the developer about this game. Were you making those same arguments about Dirt 5? That they were excuses and should be dismissed?



But the two perform nearly exactly the same in quality mode. The devs said it was a decision unrelated to performance. We don't have any other information than that.
i was talking about the perf mode. Why the perfomance are the same when the ps5 utilize internally a much lower res
 
The ps5 has a higher pixel count output and using checkerboarding but the series x has higher image quality in certain aspects due to higher native resolutions. Its like this you can recomstruct a 1080p image to 4k using dlss or any reconstruction method and itll look sharper than 1440p but will be losing pixel data that a native 1440p image has
 

MonarchJT

Banned
The ps5 has a higher pixel count output and using checkerboarding but the series x has higher image quality in certain aspects due to higher native resolutions. Its like this you can recomstruct a 1080p image to 4k using dlss or any reconstruction method and itll look sharper than 1440p but will be losing pixel data that a native 1440p image has
dlss is not like cb....dlss 1.0 was exactly like CB, a case by case implementation.
 

RoboFu

One of the green rats
Still not the case if thats the case then it means the higher resolution reconstruction on ps5 has advantages that series x doesnt, but i strongly feel that this is more about texture quality

no it means the PS5 is blurring less because Blurring is a big performance sink. its literally a lesser DOF setting.
 
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dlss is not like cb....dlss 1.0 was exactly like CB, a case by case implementation.
They are all upscaling and reconstruction techniques, that work using different methods to reach the final image and they all suffer from artefacts and some are better than others even digital foundry showed reconstructed 1440p with dlss can appear sharper than native 4k in some instances
 

Topher

Gold Member
Nope, i made no excuses in Dirts thread. Im not invested enough to care over a "win" in a faceoff as if either result would ruin my enjoyment of a game.

Even when devs acknowledged it was a bug, it was still "excuses". But since the shoe is on the foot now, its a legitimate thing.

Only a fool would believe their favorite plastic box would outperform its competitor in every faceoff.

Ok, but now you are taking this further and suggesting any and all additional information from devs or otherwise shall be deemed as "excuses" and should be ignored. For those who dismissed the bugs in Dirt 5, they were proved wrong when the issue was fixed and so they have egg on their face. Is that really the sort of line of thinking you want to emulate going forward? If that's what you want to do then I guess that's your choice, but that doesn't make sense to me at all.

Whoopie Just Saying GIF by moodman


i was talking about the perf mode. Why the perfomance are the same when the ps5 utilize internally a much lower res

Yes. Due to checkerboarding which the dev said was not put into place for performance reasons. I would think major differences in performance without CB would be reflected in quality mode with lower resolutions reached in DRS or something, but the difference is negligible.

Remember, you are the guy who said we should ask the dev why there are differences. I took notes. We don't have the reason from the dev that did this, but we know what they say is NOT the reason.
 

skit_data

Member
The thing is its not accepted. Just like Dirt 5 with the bug on XSX. It wasn't accepted that it was bugged lol. Now they're crying "bu bu but ps4 port"... no.

We're not going to only nitpick excuses when it fits the narrative because some fanboys are hurt over a faceoff.
It should be accepted to some degree, the dev enviroment being ”behind” on the Xbox consoles was talked about before the consoles even launched. Now I dont believe we will see some magical performance gain that will put the Series X leagues above PS5. I think it primarily will resolve the stutter issues seen in some games and maybe resolve some of the pretty minor issues we have seen when the Series consoles display effect heavy scenes for example. Most of all i think it will simply relieve some headache from developers that have expressed it not being as easy to work with as the PS5 counterpart. I think there is some kernel of truth to both these claims, but i dont think Series X/PS5 will perform much different in the end except in cases where the engine favor the fast/narrow vs slow/wide design.
this then would be even worst seeing the xsx seem to have the same if not better perf
In this particular game? Or do you mean overall?
 
no it means the PS5 is blurring less because Blurring is a big performance sink. its literally a lesser DOF setting.
This isnt the case that blur isnt just depth of field anybody with an intellect in graphics can notice that, even in other areas without depth of field the textures are still of higher quality than ps5, for instance there is no depth of field here but look at those rocks at the background!
Rd540jg.jpg
 

MonarchJT

Banned
It should be accepted to some degree, the dev enviroment being ”behind” on the Xbox consoles was talked about before the consoles even launched. Now I dont believe we will see some magical performance gain that will put the Series X leagues above PS5. I think it primarily will resolve the stutter issues seen in some games and maybe resolve some of the pretty minor issues we have seen when the Series consoles display effect heavy scenes for example. Most of all i think it will simply relieve some headache from developers that have expressed it not being as easy to work with as the PS5 counterpart. I think there is some kernel of truth to both these claims, but i dont think Series X/PS5 will perform much different in the end except in cases where the engine favor the fast/narrow vs slow/wide design.

In this particular game? Or do you mean overall?
in this game when CB is in action
 
This isnt the case that blur isnt just depth of field anybody with an intellect in graphics can notice that, even in other areas without depth of field the textures are still of higher quality than ps5, for instance there is no depth of field here but look at those rocks at the background!
Rd540jg.jpg
Where did you find this screenshot? Is it in the video?
 

VFXVeteran

Banned
That really doesn't matter. You can port from a version of a game that is made to run on a RTX 3090 but if you just ship it as soon as you have something that's running then that port isn't optimized from the console and isn't taking advantage of the hardware at all.
There's really nothing special about the console hardware other than the SSD. They are all AMD boards. I'm sure their graphics engine uses DX12/Vulkan with general libraries that would work on any platform with DX12/Vulkan drivers.

For example, if I'm wanting to read from a texture, I would set up the texture mode, specify the filtering method, then use the LINEAR_MIP_MAP_LINEAR enumeration. There is nothing I would do differently from that API to index that texture and this is at the lowest level before creating my own driver.

In any case, no multiplatform game will optimize further from the PC version by digging into the low level drivers of the AMD hardware. This was the case last gen and will be the case this generation. You will never find a multiplat game working *better* than the PC equivalent due to special optimization that the PC can't do.
 
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Lethal01

Member
There's really nothing special about the console hardware other than the SSD. They are all AMD boards. I'm sure their graphics engine uses DX12/Vulkan with general libraries that would work on any platform with DX12/Vulkan drivers.

For example, if I'm wanting to read from a texture, I would set up the texture mode, specify the filtering method, then use the LINEAR_MIP_MAP_LINEAR enumeration. There is nothing I would do differently from that API to index that texture and this is at the lowest level before creating my own driver.

It's your word against people actually making games for them.

They totally disagree that simply getting a pc game running smoothly on the console is taking advantage of all the features of the hardware. I'm sure you know this, so I will skip on wasting time grabbing links.
 

VFXVeteran

Banned
It's your word against people actually making games for them.

They totally disagree that simply getting a pc game running smoothly on the console is taking advantage of all the features of the hardware. I'm sure you know this, so I will skip on wasting time grabbing links.
Name one multiplat game from last gen that is "well optimized" and outperforms the PC version or has more features than the PC version.
 

skit_data

Member
in this game when CB is in action
Well, its not a 1-1 comprison first of all due to the CBR on PS5. Alex says that Series X exhibits ”a sligtly higher propencity” to have frame drops in effects heavy scenes.
According to VGTech the performance is very slightly in PS5s favour:
cePPIax.jpg


Where exactly is performance in Series X favour?
 
Where did you find this screenshot? Is it in the video?
Yes you can watch the video again right at 4:33 and 8:12
And heres another screenshot
jY1VxxL.png

And below is a series s screenshot from a similar scene
GDY9VMB.png

This could be optimization issues between series consoles where in most games due to apis games tend to mistakenly use similar seetings between series s and x.
 

Lethal01

Member
Name one multiplat game from last gen that is "well optimized" and outperforms the PC version or has more features than the PC version.

This question is totally irrelevant to the matter of whether it's taking advantage of the hardware.
The question is, are the devs leaving tons of performance on the table in the console version by not using the features of the hardware. How it compares to the PC version is literally irrelevant.

Are they optimizing the game for the mesh shaders on the Series X? or the Custom Geometry Engine of the PS5?
 

MonarchJT

Banned
Well, its not a 1-1 comprison first of all due to the CBR on PS5. Alex says that Series X exhibits ”a sligtly higher propencity” to have frame drops in effects heavy scenes.
According to VGTech the performance is very slightly in PS5s favour:
cePPIax.jpg


Where exactly is performance in Series X favour?
But ps5 is using CB so again it basically mean that render less pixels than the xsx and still the difference is a minuscole 0.13% ..ps4pro setup dosnt answer to this perfomances
 
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skit_data

Member
But ps5 is using CB so again it basically mean that render less pixels than the xsx and still the difference is a minuscole 0.13% ..ps4pro setup dosnt answer to this perfomances
Its renders a higher pixel amount than Series X based on a originally lower pixel amount. We simply dont know what resolution/performance the PS5 would exhibit if we take the CBR out of the equation, so afaik its a pretty useless comparing the two. If i were to take a guess the PS5 would render a slightly lower res than Series X if it was using DRS but we do simply dont know, its just guessing.
 

VFXVeteran

Banned
This question is totally irrelevant to the matter of whether it's taking advantage of the hardware.
The question is, are the devs leaving tons of performance on the table in the console version by not using the features of the hardware. How it compares to the PC version is literally irrelevant.
No it's not. The claim is that 1) they didn't use the full features of the hardware. I claim - give an example of a multiplat using the full features of the hardware from last gen. 2) the port came from the PC or from PS4 pro (which also came from PC). My claim - show me a scenario by which we can make said claims. Show me a multiplat game that aside from the PC version uses the full capabilities of the hardware (even if we can't really prove that since there are no advertised benchmarks of the games).

Are they optimizing the game for the mesh shaders on the Series X? or the Custom Geometry Engine of the PS5?
Ah.. the mesh shading excuse. So if any game isn't using an added API functionality like mesh shading, then it's not using the hardware to the fullest. I guess DF, VGTech and all the other journalist need to stop doing comparisons of multiplatform games until mesh shading gets implemented in all games..
 
Its renders a higher pixel amount than Series X based on a originally lower pixel amount. We simply dont know what resolution/performance the PS5 would exhibit if we take the CBR out of the equation, so afaik its a pretty useless comparing the two. If i were to take a guess the PS5 would render a slightly lower res than Series X if it was using DRS but we do simply dont know, its just guessing.
Judging by CBR performance boosts in other games, PS5 would run Avengers at around 40 fps at native 4K (CBR increases performance by roughly 50%). Extrapolating from that, something like 1600p native seems to be the ballpark for 60 fps.
 

RoboFu

One of the green rats
This isnt the case that blur isnt just depth of field anybody with an intellect in graphics can notice that, even in other areas without depth of field the textures are still of higher quality than ps5, for instance there is no depth of field here but look at those rocks at the background!
Rd540jg.jpg
that is a different issue than the DOF. The PS5 texture doesn't look higher res, it looks more contrasted. could be CB reconstruction side effect or an Anisotropic filtering issue on the Xbox. Possible VRS on Xbox but on im not convinced of that.

the other thing is clearly a lesser DOF setting you can see it in the way the objects in the background are blurred and by actually watching the cutscenes.





I mean just look at the PC ver on Ultra it looks exactly the same.

 

Lethal01

Member
Ah.. the mesh shading excuse. So if any game isn't using an added API functionality like mesh shading, then it's not using the hardware to the fullest. I guess DF, VGTech and all the other journalist need to stop doing comparisons of multiplatform games until mesh shading gets implemented in all games..

Of course they can compare. You don't need to know the details of how well the port is utilizing the hardware to check which version is running better. But we obviously can't make claims like "this game is really showing the full capabilities of the hardware", it may not even me using all the features that both the PC and the console support..

The points of these comparisons are to see what's the better end product for games people care about. Sometimes games are focused on specifically because they using the hardware and running badly. Why would they stop doing them just because the games aren't pushing the consoles to the max?

I claim - give an example of a multiplat using the full features of the hardware from last gen.

I don't think you know what the word claim means. Saying "do this" isn't a claim.. Scratch that, I'm sure you know what it means. But you must have typed that in a real rush or something, because it makes little sense.

My claim: Just because they ported the game from a version that runs on next gen hardware doesn't mean it's using the hardware of what it's ported to well.
 
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Shmunter

Member
Its renders a higher pixel amount than Series X based on a originally lower pixel amount. We simply dont know what resolution/performance the PS5 would exhibit if we take the CBR out of the equation, so afaik its a pretty useless comparing the two. If i were to take a guess the PS5 would render a slightly lower res than Series X if it was using DRS but we do simply dont know, its just guessing.
PS5 is 12% more performant at the biggest stress point according to the chart (57 vs 51). We have no idea what it may be at the top end due to 60 cap.

Either way, plenty left on the table here. Frankly would prefer an increase in particles closer to the 30fps mode rather than eliminating cbr and going native for example.
 

Heisenberg007

Gold Journalism
i was talking about the perf mode. Why the perfomance are the same when the ps5 utilize internally a much lower res
You do realize that this game does not have unlocked frame rates, right? Developers lock frame rates. In this case, at 60 FPS.

It is possible that with CB, PS5 could be hitting 75 frames per second, and XSX 65 frames per second at native. But both are locked at 60 FPS with whatever resolution settings they have.

Then comes situations where frames drop below 60, say, at 58. This drop brings down the average. And because frames aren't allowed to go beyond 60, the overall average drops to 58.xx or 59.xx after those drops. In the end, we see both PS5 and XSX at around 59 FPS average at different resolution settings.

P.S. Pretty much identical performance in Quality Mode (30 FPS) proves both consoles are performing at a similar level.
 
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dcmk7

Banned
Upset? Lol im not the one making excuses for the shortcomings of any console in any of these faceoffs. I just find it amusing how up in arms you guys get over this 🤣


Ps5 "won" Crash 4. Just go celebrate that "win" and call it a day.

No, of course you have never.

There's also a screenshot of a Twitter dm posted on here where a dirt dev says something along the lines of not being able to get enough time with the gdk due to covid. But narratives will have people ignore what doesn't fit theirs 🤷🏻‍♂️🤷🏻‍♂️.

You should just stick to posting LOL gifs to be honest. You're better at that. Whenever you attempt a written reply you always come across as a bitter, uneducated troll. Sad.
 
It is possible that with CB, PS5 could be hitting 75 frames per second, and XSX 65 frames per second at native.
Not really. Both consoles drop the resolution in heavier scenes, which means they can't sustain 60 fps. It's unlikely that there's a lot of overhead.
P.S. Pretty much identical performance in Quality Mode (30 FPS) proves both consoles are performing at a similar level.
30 fps mode doesn't push the CPU at all. It's not a good benchmark.
 

DaGwaphics

Member
Yes you can watch the video again right at 4:33 and 8:12
And heres another screenshot
jY1VxxL.png

And below is a series s screenshot from a similar scene
GDY9VMB.png

This could be optimization issues between series consoles where in most games due to apis games tend to mistakenly use similar seetings between series s and x.

I'm trying to see what is supposed to be wrong with these screen shots, besides the difference in depth of field (there might not even be a difference there, could just be an issue of brightness). The texture on the shirt looks fantastic on Series (better than PS5), they really captured the look of a shirt that's been washed a few times and is cracking (in those yellow stripes).

With that said the game looks fantastic visually all around on all platforms.
 
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Concern

Member
No, of course you have never.



You should just stick to posting LOL gifs to be honest. You're better at that. Whenever you attempt a written reply you always come across as a bitter, uneducated troll. Sad.

You have quite the infatuation with me don't you?

My post talking about narratives isn't quite the "i got you" you thought it was lol. Find a post actually excusing a lesser performance.

Take your own advice and stick to reactions. You're flat out embarrassing yourself lol

Edit: im pretty sure this is another krispolis alt lol. He can't stop spamming triggered emojis 🤣
 
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MonarchJT

Banned
You do realize that this game does not have unlocked frame rates, right? Developers lock frame rates. In this case, at 60 FPS.

It is possible that with CB, PS5 could be hitting 75 frames per second, and XSX 65 frames per second at native. But both are locked at 60 FPS with whatever resolution settings they have.

Then comes situations where frames drop below 60, say, at 58. This drop brings down the average. And because frames aren't allowed to go beyond 60, the overall average drops to 58.xx or 59.xx after those drops. In the end, we see both PS5 and XSX at around 59 FPS average at different resolution settings.

P.S. Pretty much identical performance in Quality Mode (30 FPS) proves both consoles are performing at a similar level.
Or that xsx have more headroom on top of what we are seeing. Personally I don't think the CB is there just because "lazy devs" .. especially in a game where the developers were paid additionally by Sony to develop 1 exclusive character.
 
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