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[kingfey]

A trick? It was an advertised offer. Unless we're talking about different things? I certainly wasn't trying to exploit anything.

Its an exploitable trick. Reddit discovered this trick, and everyone shared it. I was there when it happened, and I havent done the trick, because my gamepass was on the clock. By their math, I would have been out of gamepass for 3 month, and 180$ xbox live. Didn't bothered with it all.

 

[Atrus]

Phil is giving the typical business speak for a project that has yet to demonstrate financial viability. If it did, then they would have released the figures to shareholders. Clearly, it's not there yet so he's playing with words.

 

[Captain Toad]

Its an exploitable trick. Reddit discovered this trick, and everyone shared it. I was there when it happened, and I havent done the trick, because my gamepass was on the clock. By their math, I would have been out of gamepass for 3 month, and 180$ xbox live. Didn't bothered with it all.

How is taking them up on their offer an exploitable trick?

This wasn't the first time they offered the $1 deal. I signed up well after the first $1 offer when they offered it again.

 

[kingfey]

How is taking them up on their offer an exploitable trick?

It wasnt supposed to happen. MS fucked it up. Same thing with EA play trick.

This Deal Gets You 12-Months of Xbox Game Pass Ultimate for $90 (Existing Members) - IGN

Here's how you can save 50% on one year of Xbox Game Pass Ultimate, or get 4-months for just $30.

www.ign.com

Microsoft closes loophole that let you get Xbox Game Pass cheaper

Microsoft has closed an exploit that allowed you to get cheaper subscriptions to Xbox Game Pass Ultimate via using an E…

www.vg247.com

 

[Captain Toad]

It wasnt supposed to happen. MS fucked it up. Same thing with EA play trick.

This Deal Gets You 12-Months of Xbox Game Pass Ultimate for $90 (Existing Members) - IGN

Here's how you can save 50% on one year of Xbox Game Pass Ultimate, or get 4-months for just $30.

www.ign.com

Microsoft closes loophole that let you get Xbox Game Pass cheaper

Microsoft has closed an exploit that allowed you to get cheaper subscriptions to Xbox Game Pass Ultimate via using an E…

www.vg247.com

That says some exploit using EA Access. All I did was upgrade Xbox Gold to GamePass for $1. We must not be talking about the same thing. Microsoft has offered this deal several times. I would not have done it if I had believed it was not a legitimate offer.

 

[kingfey]

That says some exploit using EA Access. All I did was upgrade Xbox Gold to GamePass for $1. We must not be talking about the same thing. Microsoft has offered this deal several times. I would not have done it if I had believed it was not a legitimate offer.

MS havent offered the deal. It was the upgrade xbox live to gamepass. It wasnt 180$ xbox live to gamepass.

Yes. After you join Xbox Game Pass Ultimate, you can continue to redeem Xbox Live Gold and Xbox Game Pass for Console and PC codes. These codes will automatically convert to Xbox Game Pass Ultimate based on the following conversion table. Conversion ratio subject to change.

Token says…	You get…
1 month of Gold	20 days of Ultimate
3 months of Gold	50 days of Ultimate (1+ month)
6 months of Gold	79 days of Ultimate (2+ months)
12 months of Gold	4 months of Ultimate
24 months of Gold	8 months of Ultimate
1 month of Xbox Game Pass (Console Games)	20 days of Ultimate
3 months of Xbox Game Pass (Console Games)	2 months of Ultimate
6 months of Xbox Game Pass (Console Games)	4 months of Ultimate
12 months of Xbox Game Pass (Console Games)	5 months of Ultimate
24 months of Xbox Game Pass (Console Games)	10 months of Ultimate
1 month of Xbox Game Pass PC Games	20 days of Ultimate
Upgrade Your Xbox Live Gold Membership to Ultimate | Xbox Upgrade to Xbox Game Pass Ultimate and receive great benefits. www.xbox.com

 

[MrFunSocks]

Not gonna lie, pretty disappointed that there hasn't been a single console warring ban from this thread so far given 75% of the posts are just straight up console wars.

 

[DaGwaphics]

MS havent offered the deal. It was the upgrade xbox live to gamepass. It wasnt 180$ xbox live to gamepass.

Yes. After you join Xbox Game Pass Ultimate, you can continue to redeem Xbox Live Gold and Xbox Game Pass for Console and PC codes. These codes will automatically convert to Xbox Game Pass Ultimate based on the following conversion table. Conversion ratio subject to change.

Token says…	You get…
1 month of Gold	20 days of Ultimate
3 months of Gold	50 days of Ultimate (1+ month)
6 months of Gold	79 days of Ultimate (2+ months)
12 months of Gold	4 months of Ultimate
24 months of Gold	8 months of Ultimate
1 month of Xbox Game Pass (Console Games)	20 days of Ultimate
3 months of Xbox Game Pass (Console Games)	2 months of Ultimate
6 months of Xbox Game Pass (Console Games)	4 months of Ultimate
12 months of Xbox Game Pass (Console Games)	5 months of Ultimate
24 months of Xbox Game Pass (Console Games)	10 months of Ultimate
1 month of Xbox Game Pass PC Games	20 days of Ultimate
Upgrade Your Xbox Live Gold Membership to Ultimate | Xbox Upgrade to Xbox Game Pass Ultimate and receive great benefits. www.xbox.com

Agreed. At the end of the day, if too many people were letting their GP lapse just to re-convert again, MS would just close that up and make it one conversion per user account. The fact that they haven't done that signals that it isn't a real problem. Like you pointed out, if they see bad abuse they will squash it. In reality you probably have a small number of people exploiting the $1 deal, but not enough to be concerned about it if the deal is converting well otherwise.

 

[DaleinCalgary]

Really should we care if MS makes money off gamepass?

 

[Rea]

i played their triple A title game which is Forza horizon 5 with gamepass on my PC with $1, (it's really a beautiful game by the way, although not my cup of tea.). My gamepass expires on end of December, so i can play Halo campaign for free too. Thanks phill.

 

[baphomet]

If i read it correctly, they would pay for tickets, in other words, lose money everytime someone used the service to watch a movie. Someone who watched movies frequently enough would give them losses.

WIth services like gamepass or netflix, theres basically no loss for the number of times someone downloads/plays/watches a game/movie. If someone uses gamepass to play a different game 2x a month or a new game every single day, it makes no difference for MS's pockets.

They have multiple deals in place, but they're absolutely paying some of the larger devs an amount of money per download.

 

[Tschumi]

He didn't say "profitable", i imagine he'll say it as soon as he's able to, so I'll wait for that.

The rest of this post has become a rant, i want to say that the general point is that there's isn't much for me to get excited about, gamepass or otherwise, at the moment.

I'm making comparisons between xbox and ps but i feel like it's okay to do it because i own both consoles and I'm just giving unvarnished thoughts.

... I've got my new XSS here... I've been giving it a fair go. I like the controller - nice click'y d-pad - though it seems a bit small in my hands. I like the load times.

I don't like how the logo button either sometimes doesn't function or else reacts very slowly, don't like how the xbox store game lists have the thinnest conceivable filter settings (i remember someone saying the Sony game store is inferior in terms of user friendliness? Quite the opposite I'm afraid) and that there's no obvious power off option to just click towards on the default home screen..

I own Red Dead Redemption, Gears of War and Crimson Skies.

I had never played Gears of War before, and after a few scenes listening to the gruff meathead saying cheesy-ass lines about being pissed and murdering fools i turned it off. I'm going to look into whether or not i can refund it.

So, until now I've yet to buy a current gen game.

This is mostly because none of the new titles strike me as being worth their price, with the two possible eventual exceptions of Fight Sim and Horizon 5.

I may get ME Legendary Edition and Halo MCC, maybe Infinite, but I've already played about 60% of the titles covered there, the most recent of which being about 10 years ago.

Where are all the titles xbox owners have been strutting around boasting about? I look at the game list and it's a handful of annual cash cow multiplayer/Ubisoft games, a ton of, what would you call it, AA games (as opposed to AAA?) , overpriced 360 titles, and a miniscule spread of back compat og xbox games that changes by region..

I own a sony console and an xbox console now. My current installed games lineup in my PS4 Pro includes FF7 Remake, Kena, Sekiro, Persona 5 Royal, Uncharted 4 and the Uncharted HD collection, among other cross-platform titles.

I'm going to use my SXS to emulate, there is no other valid option to extract bang for buck here, because it'll give me access to the superior PS2 and GameCube libraries. I'll enjoy Horizon 5 and Fight Sim I'm sure, and I hope Infinite is fun, but yeah I'm disappointed in their library at the moment.

 

[elliot5]

He didn't say "profitable", i imagine he'll say it as soon as he's able to, so I'll wait for that.

The rest of this post has become a rant, i want to say that the general point is that there's isn't much for me to get excited about, gamepass or otherwise, at the moment.

I'm making comparisons between xbox and ps but i feel like it's okay to do it because i own both consoles and I'm just giving unvarnished thoughts.

... I've got my new XSS here... I've been giving it a fair go. I like the controller - nice click'y d-pad - though it seems a bit small in my hands. I like the load times.

I don't like how the logo button either sometimes doesn't function or else reacts very slowly, don't like how the xbox store game lists have the thinnest conceivable filter settings (i remember someone saying the Sony game store is inferior in terms of user friendliness? Quite the opposite I'm afraid) and that there's no obvious power off option to just click towards on the default home screen..

I own Red Dead Redemption, Gears of War and Crimson Skies.

I had never played Gears of War before, and after a few scenes listening to the gruff meathead saying cheesy-ass lines about being pissed and murdering fools i turned it off. I'm going to look into whether or not i can refund it.

So, until now I've yet to buy a current gen game.

This is mostly because none of the new titles strike me as being worth their price, with the two possible eventual exceptions of Fight Sim and Horizon 5.

I may get ME Legendary Edition and Halo MCC, maybe Infinite, but I've already played about 60% of the titles covered there, the most recent of which being about 10 years ago.

Where are all the titles xbox owners have been strutting around boasting about? I look at the game list and it's a handful of annual cash cow multiplayer/Ubisoft games, a ton of, what would you call it, AA games (as opposed to AAA?) , overpriced 360 titles, and a miniscule spread of back compat og xbox games that changes by region..

I own a sony console and an xbox console now. My current installed games lineup in my PS4 Pro includes FF7 Remake, Kena, Sekiro, Persona 5 Royal, Uncharted 4 and the Uncharted HD collection, among other cross-platform titles.

I'm going to use my SXS to emulate, there is no other valid option to extract bang for buck here, because it'll give me access to the superior PS2 and GameCube libraries. I'll enjoy Horizon 5 and Fight Sim I'm sure, and I hope Infinite is fun, but yeah I'm disappointed in their library at the moment.

You've got a big ol' backlog to work through. Play Ori and the Will of the Wisps. Psychonauts 2. Hellblade. Gears Tactics. Sunset Overdrive. Literally anything on GP.

Btw holding down the xbox button brings up the shutdown menu.

 

[The Pleasure]

REEEEEEEEE gamepass REEEEEEEEE!!!!!!

That's the smash community when you tell them to take a shower.

 

[Guilty_AI]

They have multiple deals in place, but they're absolutely paying some of the larger devs an amount of money per download.

Regardless of what kind of deal they have, its a deal negotiated beforehand, aka they can freely take into consideration their budget and earnings. Its completely different from MS simply paying full price to devs for every single download some user makes, which would be the equivalent of that moviepass thing.

You'd have to assume MS is doing deals where they pay $40 - $60 dollars with a whole bunch of devs for just that, which would be way way too much of a stretch. Besides, knowing how these publishers usually think, they'd rather take a load of upfront cash to keep their game there for a few months rather than some uncertain pay-per-download system.

 

[Heisenberg007]

Okay, Phil.

Though releasing meaningful numbers (not "engagement" numbers) on a consistent basis would eliminate the need for releasing statements like these every now and then.

 

[Mattyp]

There once was an actual commercial where someone said, "we are charging so little, we lose money on every sale, but we make it up on volume". That's what that logic sounds like.

Exactly how it works, Amazon offers cheaper products and I guarantee they make a lot less per item then big box stores and original bookshop store markup but they make up for it in quantity.

You look at Xbox division doing $10 billion in revenue now, does anyone think it costs that much to operate? Hell no. Long as they keep creating more revenue that keeps creating more profit even if it’s not as large as it could be. Returning customers and locking people into the ecosystem is what it’s all about.

 

[Ozriel]

Here are a couple of questions Id like Phil to answer:

• What is the revenue of Gamepass subs?
• How much did Avengers Cost?
• How much did Day 1 titles like Outriders and MLB cost?
• What would it take for games like Battlefield and Far Cry to show up on day one? Because the math at the moment suggest they are there already.
• So whats the hold up?

Everyone from Amazon to Netflix announces the revenue they earn or the deals they make. $200 million to creators of westworld. $300 million to Game of Thrones showrunners. $500 million for fucking Seinfeld almost 25 years after it aired. Everyone announces these numbers in press releases proudly. Look at how much we are spending to GET YOU AAA CONTENT. So why cant Microsoft do the same?

Nobody in gaming announces these numbers at that granular level of detail. Because, as you can imagine, it would probably impact their negotiation for other content. Have you ever seen Stadia or Luna talk about these numbers before? How does it make sense to compare with an entirely different entertainment medium?

Aside from Sony and Nintendo, Microsoft has clearly indicated that they see cloud heavy competition like Amazon and Google as potential competition. Why would they release sensitive information on their payouts just to make nerds on a gaming forum happy?

At the end of the day, they plan to release enough information to keep their shareholders happy and to give indications on the pulse of the business.

 

[Ozriel]

Okay, Phil.

Though releasing meaningful numbers (not "engagement" numbers) on a consistent basis would eliminate the need for releasing statements like these every now and then.

he’s answering an interview question and not ‘releasing a statement’

 

[Heisenberg007]

Exactly how it works, Amazon offers cheaper products and I guarantee they make a lot less per item then big box stores and original bookshop store markup but they make up for it in quantity.

You look at Xbox division doing $10 billion in revenue now, does anyone think it costs that much to operate? Hell no. Long as they keep creating more revenue that keeps creating more profit even if it’s not as large as it could be. Returning customers and locking people into the ecosystem is what it’s all about.

It has to cost significantly more than $10 billion.

It cost PlayStation $22 billion to operate their gaming division -- as of last year (before most of the acquisitions and recent growth). Xbox is now almost 2x bigger than PlayStation. A 2x bigger division can't run at less than 50% operating cost.

 

[sinnergy]

All these service are only profitable after a few years , Netflix, Spotify etc, some still are ‘t , it’s literally a commitment to the future ..

but you can take uptake as a metric and if you see growth , you are heading there ..

 

[reksveks]

It has to cost significantly more than $10 billion.

It cost PlayStation $22 billion to operate their gaming division -- as of last year (before most of the acquisitions and recent growth). Xbox is now almost 2x bigger than PlayStation. A 2x bigger division can't run at less than 50% operating cost.

Feels like I am stuck in a time loop,

Firstly xbox revenue is closer to 15/16 billion.

The total cost of the whole mpc division is 34bn, that includes the surface division.

Xbox revenue - 15.6bn
Surface revenue is something around 8-10bn
Mpc revenue - 54.1bn
Mpc cost - 34.6bn

I will let you try square the circle in terms of the operating costs of the various segments within mpc.

 

[Tschumi]

You've got a big ol' backlog to work through. Play Ori and the Will of the Wisps. Psychonauts 2. Hellblade. Gears Tactics. Sunset Overdrive. Literally anything on GP.

Btw holding down the xbox button brings up the shutdown menu.

I'm not trying to be difficult but of those options Psychonauts 2 is the only one that piques my interest, and haven't played, but i will give it to you i did forget to mention in.

I think I'll be glad i have this so i have a chance to try elden ring and Starfield, but yeah them's a while away...

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Good to see it sustainable. My GP is due to run out next year. Going to do the 3 year gold + $1 GP trick again (which for renewals is price of 1 month of GP). Hoping the trick still works since the $1 top up has been amazing.

 

[Heisenberg007]

Feels like I am stuck in a time loop,

Firstly xbox revenue is closer to 15/16 billion.

The total cost of the whole mpc division is 34bn, that includes the surface division.

Xbox revenue - 15.6bn
Surface revenue is something around 8-10bn
Mpc revenue - 54.1bn
Mpc cost - 34.6bn

I will let you try square the circle in terms of the operating costs of the various segments within mpc.

We've had this conversation before -- and I've always enjoyed talking to you about this and other stuff.

I understand what you're saying (the operating cost of the multiple divisions that MS has jumbled together), but let's be honest, there is no clarity on how MS shares each division's data. Ideally, it should have been separate, but they have mixed everything, and now we have no proper data for any of these divisions.

Logically, it doesn't make sense if Xbox's operating expenses are less than $10 or $15 billion. How can it be! We have a direct competitor having twice the operating expenses while having roughly half the size of the division. Zenimax itself has roughly 80% of the studio employees that the entire PlayStation division had last year or so.

Unless we assume that PlayStation spends more than 2x on every game and product and service that Xbox does, or Xbox has landed on a magical formula that can cut its operating costs in half, there is no way that the current Xbox can operate at 50% of PS's operating costs.

 

[reksveks]

We've had this conversation before -- and I've always enjoyed talking to you about this and other stuff.

I understand what you're saying (the operating cost of the multiple divisions that MS has jumbled together), but let's be honest, there is no clarity on how MS shares each division's data. Ideally, it should have been separate, but they have mixed everything, and now we have no proper data for any of these divisions.

Logically, it doesn't make sense if Xbox's operating expenses are less than $10 or $15 billion. How can it be! We have a direct competitor having twice the operating expenses while having roughly half the size of the division. Zenimax itself has roughly 80% of the studio employees that the entire PlayStation division had last year or so.

Unless we assume that PlayStation spends more than 2x on every game and product and service that Xbox does, or Xbox has landed on a magical formula that can cut its operating costs in half, there is no way that the current Xbox can operate at 50% of PS's operating costs.

I think that when you are the size of Microsoft, you get the ability to keep stuff topline which is extremely helpful to reduce scrutiny. Investors just don't care that much about xbox. I would be interested to see more information just out of curiosity.

I will keep an eye on the MPC cost, don't think I did share that with the latest round of quarterly reports

MPC cost per q (financial calendar)

I need to remember when Bethesda acquisition finalised and when its costs would appear in the reports.

Personally think Xbox cost is about 15bn at the moment.

 

[SoloKingRobert]

What?

I am a console gamer only and I got 3 years of GamePass for $1. Why wouldn't I do that? I don’t understand your logic.

You've paid $1 for 3 years, making it about $0.33 cent a year?

 

[M1chl]

Its an exploitable trick. Reddit discovered this trick, and everyone shared it. I was there when it happened, and I havent done the trick, because my gamepass was on the clock. By their math, I would have been out of gamepass for 3 month, and 180$ xbox live. Didn't bothered with it all.

Dude it's official way when you are first on GamePass, you pay 3 years of gold and get 1:1 exchange to GamePass.

 

[MonarchJT]

He didn't say "profitable", i imagine he'll say it as soon as he's able to, so I'll wait for that.

The rest of this post has become a rant, i want to say that the general point is that there's isn't much for me to get excited about, gamepass or otherwise, at the moment.

I'm making comparisons between xbox and ps but i feel like it's okay to do it because i own both consoles and I'm just giving unvarnished thoughts.

... I've got my new XSS here... I've been giving it a fair go. I like the controller - nice click'y d-pad - though it seems a bit small in my hands. I like the load times.

I don't like how the logo button either sometimes doesn't function or else reacts very slowly, don't like how the xbox store game lists have the thinnest conceivable filter settings (i remember someone saying the Sony game store is inferior in terms of user friendliness? Quite the opposite I'm afraid) and that there's no obvious power off option to just click towards on the default home screen..

I own Red Dead Redemption, Gears of War and Crimson Skies.

I had never played Gears of War before, and after a few scenes listening to the gruff meathead saying cheesy-ass lines about being pissed and murdering fools i turned it off. I'm going to look into whether or not i can refund it.

So, until now I've yet to buy a current gen game.

This is mostly because none of the new titles strike me as being worth their price, with the two possible eventual exceptions of Fight Sim and Horizon 5.

I may get ME Legendary Edition and Halo MCC, maybe Infinite, but I've already played about 60% of the titles covered there, the most recent of which being about 10 years ago.

Where are all the titles xbox owners have been strutting around boasting about? I look at the game list and it's a handful of annual cash cow multiplayer/Ubisoft games, a ton of, what would you call it, AA games (as opposed to AAA?) , overpriced 360 titles, and a miniscule spread of back compat og xbox games that changes by region..

I own a sony console and an xbox console now. My current installed games lineup in my PS4 Pro includes FF7 Remake, Kena, Sekiro, Persona 5 Royal, Uncharted 4 and the Uncharted HD collection, among other cross-platform titles.

I'm going to use my SXS to emulate, there is no other valid option to extract bang for buck here, because it'll give me access to the superior PS2 and GameCube libraries. I'll enjoy Horizon 5 and Fight Sim I'm sure, and I hope Infinite is fun, but yeah I'm disappointed in their library at the moment.

okay jan

 

[Griffon]

Sustainable for MS sure.

For devs, a world where most people play through a gamepass model is a fucking nightmare. Practically the owners of the gamepass gets to gatekeep and set the price of what the devs get.

Buy the games you like. Fuck the renting model. It fucks over both gamers and devs.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

I think that when you are the size of Microsoft, you get the ability to keep stuff topline which is extremely helpful to reduce scrutiny. Investors just don't care that much about xbox. I would be interested to see more information just out of curiosity.

I will keep an eye on the MPC cost, don't think I did share that with the latest round of quarterly reports

MPC cost per q (financial calendar)

I need to remember when Bethesda acquisition finalised and when its costs would appear in the reports.

Personally think Xbox cost is about 15bn at the moment.

True.

The bigger you are the more things get lumped together as a division number. My company has like 60 brands around the world which can all be funneled into a handful of general buckets. The top 10 brands are probably 50% of our sales. I dont think I've ever seen a quarterly report where they even call out the #1 brand we have and how well it's doing vs. the other 59. They all get lumped into and generalized in those buckets. And the other key metrics they focus on is regional/continental performance. USA is top dog and they stress how well Europe and Asian does.

MS and Sony are the same when it comes to sub plans. They'll PR sub count, but they both dont break out profitability of GP or PS Now.

 

[MonarchJT]

Sustainable for MS sure.

For devs, a world where most people play through a gamepass model is a fucking nightmare. Practically the owners of the gamepass gets to gatekeep and set the price of what the devs get.

Buy the games you like. Fuck the renting model. It fucks over both gamers and devs.

I'm sure you know every single bit on how it work and about the money they give to devs. This thread...is basically "i don't know nothing but i rant" lol

 

[THE DUCK]

Sustainable for MS sure.

For devs, a world where most people play through a gamepass model is a fucking nightmare. Practically the owners of the gamepass gets to gatekeep and set the price of what the devs get.

Buy the games you like. Fuck the renting model. It fucks over both gamers and devs.

You do make a decent point, however counter point is MS still wants devs to make games for their systems to attract games who might want gamepass. And so far at least, it doesn't seem to have canabalized the individual sales of third party games (in fact MS has said that in some cases more console gamers engaged = more sales overall in all games)
If MS attracts an extra 20 million gamers who are constantly on their console gaming, this makes the platform more attractive to third parties. Also porting a game from say PS5 to xbox or PC to xbox doesn't really cost that much extra since the hardware is so similar now, so they don't have much to lose by still supporting it.
In addition, this concern doesn't really exist on PC, as MS is not the "gatekeeper".

 

[reksveks]

For devs, a world where most people play through a gamepass model is a fucking nightmare. Practically the owners of the gamepass gets to gatekeep and set the price of what the devs get.

Quite interesting given that devs are complain about ios and the app store, almost if the issue isn't about the distribution method but the size of that distribution method and the lack of competitors

 

[Kagey K]

Sustainable for MS sure.

For devs, a world where most people play through a gamepass model is a fucking nightmare. Practically the owners of the gamepass gets to gatekeep and set the price of what the devs get.

Buy the games you like. Fuck the renting model. It fucks over both gamers and devs.

Most devs have gone on record saying they were happy with the Gamepass payout.

It's better than having users on Gaf gatekeep what games we should buy and the devs get no pay as people slander them here.

 

[DenchDeckard]

I really, really don’t get these arguments about game pass. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. If MS is fluffing the numbers, what happens? Game pass goes away and all these peeps can say “gotcha” while every one subscribed enjoyed a great service for how ever long. Or MS thinks we better keep injecting money in this service from the profit we make each quarter and the service continues?

why do these haters give a fuck if it’s making bank or not, or if ms are fluffing the numbers a bit? Like genuinely, why do you care? Everyone paying for it thinks the service is good or they wouldn’t be paying. Why wouldn’t I enjoy forza and halo day one for a monthly fee?

I really don’t get it.

do you think these suits don’t lie all the time, Nintendo isn’t working on a new console? Xbox game pass may not be doing as good as Xbox hoped. The ps5 is selling gang busters and none of them are sat on scalpers shelves which is what’s driving a lot of the sales and they are still behind PS4 Due to chip shortages. Or should I say Jim Ryan didn’t lie about Cross gen games etc.

it doesn’t matter in the end, we are still getting great games.

we know gamepass hasn’t affected the quality of forza or halo, so we are getting good games. I just don’t get the obsession, go play some fucking games?

 

[Leyasu]

Sustainable for MS sure.

For devs, a world where most people play through a gamepass model is a fucking nightmare. Practically the owners of the gamepass gets to gatekeep and set the price of what the devs get.

Buy the games you like. Fuck the renting model. It fucks over both gamers and devs.

3rd party devs wouldn’t put their games on a service if they thought that they were getting a bad deal.

Nobody is getting fucked over.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Quite interesting given that devs are complain about ios and the app store, almost if the issue isn't about the distribution method but the size of that distribution method and the lack of competitors

Devs complain about everything.

If they don't like digital storefronts, then go it alone and sell the apps online from their own website and you wont have to give anyone a cut. Nobody is stopping them.

The vast majority of traditional suppliers sell their shit through retailers where a lot of sales is concentrated in Walmart, Costco, Target or Loblaws. Some are more of a pain to work with and some will drive profits down into the dirt. Not many sell direct.

At least with digital storefronts, it seems to be a consistent 30% cut. And how hard can it be to sell product on a digital store? Seems easy as hell as a million noname games of dubious quality at $1.99 seem to be everywhere from guys making games in their basement after dinner. At least console stores have a more curated list. PC/mobile game stores seem to be a free for all of whatever as it gets green lit 99.9% of the time.

And a 30% cut of the retail price is pretty much in the ballpark for all the mainstream shit you see at a Walmart or other retailer. Depending on the product, a retailer can make even more at 50-70% (clothes and shoes).

Now devs will claim a 30% cut for digital sales is too much as it's just data files. True. But then again, the game maker has it easy too. See below.

I'd like to see devs join the non-digital world and have to deal with wheeling and dealing with tons of retailers down to the nickel as well as the company having to hire teams of people to go through all the physical manufacturing, warehousing, shipping, fleet trucks, SAP EDI orders, logistic and port delays, 1-2 two year FDA and Health Canada approvals and DIN numbers, and any other shit that comes with businesses that don't do digital file transfers.

For those of you who don't know, anytime you see those thick blue skids at a store, those are CHEP pallets. Those are supplied by the CHEP company. The store doesn't own them. CHEP charges money for companies to use them in shipping. So even that has a cost.

 

[reksveks]

If they don't like digital storefronts, then go it alone and sell the apps online from their own website and you wont have to give anyone a cut. Nobody is stopping them.

In certain cases, the os platform holder is stopping them see Hey or whatever that email service is called.

But ehh

 

[Griffon]

3rd party devs wouldn’t put their games on a service if they thought that they were getting a bad deal.

Nobody is getting fucked over.

That's a good point.

If the deals are bad I can easily see devs treating gamepass the same way as Humble Bundle and PS+: as an easy cash-in for older games.

So I guess it's no use getting too worked up over it. Tho... the marketing and strategy used here is not quite the same. MS wants to push devs more into it (in their marketing they already push gamepass games way more than buy-only games).

 

[StreetsofBeige]

In certain cases, the os platform holder is stopping them see Hey or whatever that email service is called.

But ehh

That's fine. Nobody said a storefront has to allow every game or app. Just like giant stores like Walmart doesn't allow every product on their shelves.

The minimum standard to get something listed on Android and Apple OS or Steam must be so low even guys making shitty 99 cent games can get listed in the 1,000s. So whatever is preventing them from getting listed (requirements or not happy with the cut) is on them to figure out and adapt.

 

[MonarchJT]

I really, really don’t get these arguments about game pass. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. If MS is fluffing the numbers, what happens? Game pass goes away and all these peeps can say “gotcha” while every one subscribed enjoyed a great service for how ever long. Or MS thinks we better keep injecting money in this service from the profit we make each quarter and the service continues?

why do these haters give a fuck if it’s making bank or not, or if ms are fluffing the numbers a bit? Like genuinely, why do you care? Everyone paying for it thinks the service is good or they wouldn’t be paying. Why wouldn’t I enjoy forza and halo day one for a monthly fee?

I really don’t get it.

do you think these suits don’t lie all the time, Nintendo isn’t working on a new console? Xbox game pass may not be doing as good as Xbox hoped. The ps5 is selling gang busters and none of them are sat on scalpers shelves which is what’s driving a lot of the sales and they are still behind PS4 Due to chip shortages. Or should I say Jim Ryan didn’t lie about Cross gen games etc.

it doesn’t matter in the end, we are still getting great games.

we know gamepass hasn’t affected the quality of forza or halo, so we are getting good games. I just don’t get the obsession, go play some fucking games?

on point. It's just fanboyism and envy

 

[Kagey K]

That's a good point.

If the deals are bad I can easily see devs treating gamepass the same way as Humble Bundle and PS+: as an easy cash-in for older games.

So I guess it's no use getting too worked up over it. Tho... the marketing and strategy used here is not quite the same. MS wants to push devs more into it (in their marketing they already push gamepass games way more than buy-only games).

As you've already shown, there are lots of way they can get pushed into a bad deal, without gamepass.

 

[Bernd Lauert]

i played their triple A title game which is Forza horizon 5 with gamepass on my PC with $1, (it's really a beautiful game by the way, although not my cup of tea.). My gamepass expires on end of December, so i can play Halo campaign for free too. Thanks phill.

Look at this badass, he really showed it to the most valuable company in the world. How will they ever recover from this?

 

[RafterXL]

Reading through this thread it's absolutley clear why it's sustainable, Phil Spencer and Gamepass live rent free many of your heads. And frankly, the vitriol and contempt that many of you show towards this topic shows just how scared (yes scared) you are, and how wrong you have been and continue to be about Gamepass.

The opposite of love isn't hate, it's indifference. The fact that so many of you hate so strongly is more telling than any of your long winded screes about Gamepass and Spencer. If Gamepass wasn't a threat, if it wasn't something that was growing and sustainable, if it wasn't something that has and will continue to have an huge impact on the console gaming scene, you wouldn't get upset every time the name is mentioned. But you do get upset, and we all know why...don't we?

 

[StreetsofBeige]

That's a good point.

If the deals are bad I can easily see devs treating gamepass the same way as Humble Bundle and PS+: as an easy cash-in for older games.

So I guess it's no use getting too worked up over it. Tho... the marketing and strategy used here is not quite the same. MS wants to push devs more into it (in their marketing they already push gamepass games way more than buy-only games).

Yup.

It all comes down to money and making a decision. And nobody says a studio doing GP has to do it forever. Games come off the list all the time and some games never go on it ever. So whether it's good or not for the game studio, it's up to them for their next game to do it or forget it. Some games seem there forever. Some come off after 6 months. It's all over the place.

Out of all the Activision games made, where's all the CODs, Diablos and Starcraft games on GP or PS Now? I think Activision released one of the old CODs on PS Now. So ok, one old game out of 25 years worth of these franchises. So it's obvious Activision tells Sony and MS to take a hike.

But if other studios want to take some PS Now or GP partnership money (which is some vague deals of fixed fees or per download fees nobody knows) that's on them to do it or not. I'm sure Sony and MS will listen to any studio wanting to do sub plan releases. And I'm sure Sony and MS sometimes are the proactive ones making the first offer. But end of the day each side has to say yes to do it. Nobody is forcing anyone.

 

[MonarchJT]

i played their triple A title game which is Forza horizon 5 with gamepass on my PC with $1, (it's really a beautiful game by the way, although not my cup of tea.). My gamepass expires on end of December, so i can play Halo campaign for free too. Thanks phill.

what a brave!!!

 

[phil_t98]

Sustainable for MS sure.

For devs, a world where most people play through a gamepass model is a fucking nightmare. Practically the owners of the gamepass gets to gatekeep and set the price of what the devs get.

Buy the games you like. Fuck the renting model. It fucks over both gamers and devs.

And its a good job you can still choose to buy the games you like. The developers have a choice, look at Forza horizon 5 number befor the game had launched properly. I.5 million players on that game. The game must of made development costs back befor the official launch.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

And its a good job you can still choose to buy the games you like. The developers have a choice, look at Forza horizon 5 number befor the game had launched properly. I.5 million players on that game. The game must of made development costs back befor the official launch.

And funny how nobody brings up spotify or NF or any other media service sub plans.

If people really wanted to, they could buy DVD or BR editions of most tv shows and movies off Amazon. And for tv/movies not big enough to get a physical copy, you can probably find one of the services allowing someone to buy a digital copy for $10 or $20.

Most people dont. Vast majority of people now just milk NF or Hulu streams. Hardly anyone buys it outright anymore.

Same goes for music services. If someone really wants to support the artist, buy their digital album for $10 or at least help the guy out and buy your fav songs for $1 each.

Nope. They stream it instead where the artists probably gets the equivalent of 1/100th of a penny per user playing that song.

So for gaming, they got a big stonewalling effect that it's bad for the maker. But for their tv, movies and music binge steaming is a-ok when it helps their wallet.

 

[GymWolf]

So that bloodborne clone game, lies of P, is based on phil life?

Spoiler

just joking people, don't get mad