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[Panajev2001a]

I love the “Netflix“ move. We can‘t beat them, so lets devalue them. It’s going to be tragic. When ultimately we will get Ubisoft +, EA Now, Activision +, PS Now, Gamepass, Play Pass, Apple Arcade +, Disney + Games, Netflix + Games.. it’s gonna be messy.

Actually the worry about this hurting player’s perceived value of games (like the App Store model achieved and Nintendo’s Iwata did warn against) intentionally moving to destroy perceived value of games would be doubly important if successful as:

1. It cuts off your opponent oxygen supply
2. It does not hurt your subscription service approach which can grow as a set of multiple subscriptions like your TV cable bill (and we have seen the kind of prices this drives in the U.S. whoa…)… GamePass could be grown with tiers adding each game publisher’s subscription service to it on Xbox consoles.

 

[phil_t98]

And funny how nobody brings up spotify or NF or any other media service sub plans.

If people really wanted to, they could buy DVD or BR editions of most tv shows and movies off Amazon. And for tv/movies not big enough to get a physical copy, you can probably find one of the services allowing someone to buy a digital copy for $10 or $20.

Most people dont. Vast majority of people now just milk NF or Hulu streams. Hardly anyone buys it outright anymore.

Same goes for music services. If someone really wants to support the artist, buy their digital album for $10 or at least help the guy out and buy your fav songs for $1 each.

Nope. They stream it instead where the artists probably gets the equivalent of 1/100th of a penny per user playing that song.

So for gaming, they got a big stonewalling effect that it's bad for the maker. But for their tv, movies and music binge steaming is a-ok when it helps their wallet.

This thread is full of warriors with no actual proof that game pass ain’t doing well. If people had evidence or developers saying that game pass was bad for them then yeah fair enough. No such thing exists at the moment and until somebody does then its just warring for warring sake

why would big developers put their games on there? Even Sony put the one game they made that went on an Xbox console on game pass day one. Think about that

 

[Bernd Lauert]

This thread is full of warriors with no actual proof that game pass ain’t doing well. If people had evidence or developers saying that game pass was bad for them then yeah fair enough. No such thing exists at the moment and until somebody does then its just warring for warring sake

why would big developers put their games on there? Even Sony put the one game they made that went on an Xbox console on game pass day one. Think about that

I'm pretty sure Sony didn't have a say in that, since the publisher was MLB itself. You're right with the rest though.

 

[Panajev2001a]

And funny how nobody brings up spotify or NF or any other media service sub plans.

If people really wanted to, they could buy DVD or BR editions of most tv shows and movies off Amazon. And for tv/movies not big enough to get a physical copy, you can probably find one of the services allowing someone to buy a digital copy for $10 or $20.

Most people dont. Vast majority of people now just milk NF or Hulu streams. Hardly anyone buys it outright anymore.

Same goes for music services. If someone really wants to support the artist, buy their digital album for $10 or at least help the guy out and buy your fav songs for $1 each.

Nope. They stream it instead where the artists probably gets the equivalent of 1/100th of a penny per user playing that song.

So for gaming, they got a big stonewalling effect that it's bad for the maker. But for their tv, movies and music binge steaming is a-ok when it helps their wallet.

I do buy a lot of Blu-Ray’s (HD and UHD) and buy digital movies instead of just streaming them… so?

This thread is full of warriors with no actual proof that game pass ain’t doing well. If people had evidence or developers saying that game pass was bad for them then yeah fair enough.

Nobody is stating that at this moment GamePass is hurting developers (MS not making it worth their while). But as in the next paragraph I am not sure you are debating honestly instead of trying to scatter the discussion around.

Even Sony put the one game they made that went on an Xbox console on game pass day one. Think about that

I did… and it shows you are being intentionally misleading if you think about MLB which Sony did not publish and it is the publisher that made the choice to put it on GamePass, but I am quite confident you know that and in we’re in the threads that discussed it aplenty.

 

[phil_t98]

I'm pretty sure Sony didn't have a say in that, since the publisher was MLB itself. You're right with the rest though.

Yeah fair enough about MLB but it did go gamepass day one if psNOW was as successful this thread wouldn’t be the same

 

[phil_t98]

I do buy a lot of Blu-Ray’s (HD and UHD) and buy digital movies instead of just streaming them… so?


Nobody is stating that at this moment GamePass is hurting developers (MS not making it worth their while). But as in the next paragraph I am not sure you are debating honestly instead of trying to scatter the discussion around.


I did… and it shows you are being intentionally misleading if you think about MLB which Sony did not publish and it is the publisher that made the choice to put it on GamePass, but I am quite confident you know that and in we’re in the threads that discussed it aplenty.

I was mistaken in terms of thinking Sony published it as well. They just made it

 

[Panajev2001a]

I was mistaken in terms of thinking Sony published it as well. They just made it

Which only just throws the point out of the window.

 

[nush]

Not gonna lie, pretty disappointed that there hasn't been a single console warring ban from this thread so far given 75% of the posts are just straight up console wars.

 

[Banjo64]

You know what would really realistic people believe that is the financials.

If it was the roaring success he claims it to be they would be transparent with the numbers - instead we get obfuscation.

That's not to mention the £1 deals for people resubscribing, and the free eight month deals in places like India.

Well I guess we don't have a choice, because they refuse to release the numbers...

Obviously

How many Xbox PR articles/interviews have we had in the past six to twelve months?

Are they really concerned with their brand awareness or something, feels like there's been a dramatic uptick and a concerted effort to appear 'gamer friendly'. Like a year long charm offensive when they should let the games do the talking.

Without the profit it's hard to tell anything really, and we only get that for the personal Computing sector, whereas in the 360 era you had it for Xbox so you could be more definitive.

People were desperate to believe 30m subs too and look how that turned out lol.

When they see Series S consoles sitting on shelves, and then look at their own sales...I wouldn't imagine they're very concerned at all .

Are they? Where are you getting your numbers from?

Isn't PS5 the fastest selling Playstation.

Without numbers it's impossible to be definitive. Certainly nothing concrete enough to be saying things are 'a lot closer'. Simply no basis for that statement.

Don't you mean 80m - to 100m

I don't think they are, and if they were we'd be hearing something much more concrete.

Overall though it's guesswork because we only have half the picture.

You reek of insecurity and have a big chip on your shoulder. Spamming all of that in less than an hour

 

[GiJoint]

So much salt over this successful service.
Gamepass isn’t going anywhere, it’s here to stay and there isn’t a single thing you armchair analysts can do about it.

 

[Codeblew]

Says person with 0 MS shares while MS shareholders are enjoying seeing the share price go through the roof.

To be fair, anybody that has almost any broad ETF, 20xx Retirement fund, 401k, HSA, IRA, Etc... probably owns some Microsoft shares. Most people that invest, own shares in companies without specifically buying individual shares.

 

[zaanan]

If someone really wants to support the artist, buy their digital album for $10 or at least help the guy out and buy your fav songs for $1 each.

Nope. They stream it instead where the artists probably gets the equivalent of 1/100th of a penny per user playing that song.

Actually most bands get less than 10% of anything you buy from retailers or music services. You want to support them, buy direct from them and see them on tour.

On topic, what the fuck people!? Are we not allowed to question Lord Phil? Everybody loves to nail Jimbo on shit, Sony fans and myself included, so get over yourselves. Calling the act of questioning someone’s vague statements and weasel words “console warring” is just an attempt to silence an opposing viewpoint and reeks of cancel culture. Be careful what you wish for.

 

[Bernd Lauert]

You reek of insecurity and have a big chip on your shoulder. Spamming all of that in less than an hour

Yep, that's what a proper meltdown looks like.

 

[phil_t98]

Which only just throws the point out of the window.

But it still went on gamepass day one which is undeniable

 

[Hitchyhero]

Phil is giving the typical business speak for a project that has yet to demonstrate financial viability. If it did, then they would have released the figures to shareholders. Clearly, it's not there yet so he's playing with words.

So basically you know more than MS, finances and future profibility. If your job isn't accountancy or financial forcasting... You should contact MS and give them your knowledge.

 

[John Wick]

I like them to spout that shit. It shows they are dumb. 1$ deal is limited, and not available for everyone. Gamepass is supported on alot of countries. You need to give up your xbox account, to get that 1$ deal.

Lol! Is it?
I've got gamepass for 3 years for £1. It runs out in 2023. I've got friends who used the £1 for 1 year GP. When it ran out they purchased Xbox live gold 3 years and converted that to gamepass for £7.99. They purchased Xbox live gold for £22.99 per year. So your maths isn't correct.

 

[Sanepar]

So basically you know more than MS, finances and future profibility. If your job isn't accountancy or financial forcasting... You should contact MS and give them your knowledge.

Without numbers he is right. It is just pr words.

 

[sainraja]

Do you even know what Moviepass was? The company was basically paying for movie tickets out of their own pocket for the subscribers. It was a ticking time bomb.

But if Microsoft was behind Moviepass, it would have survived a lot longer. Moviepass failed because they tried to strong arm theater chains into letting them be the 'middle man' but they all pushed back and created their own subscription offerings instead. Also AMC just didn't play well with Moviepass at all. They didn't budge at all.

 

[sircaw]

Why is it so hard for Microsoft to not just release the bloody numbers?

If it's doing so well, then show them for goodness sake.

Enough with the cloak and daggers script.

 

[Hitchyhero]

Without numbers he is right. It is just pr words.

Netflix, Spotify, and literally every single streaming service have done the exact same model Gamepass has: new service has cheap discounts to boost user numbers hoping that they keep it. Those services never made profit at all within the the first couple of years.... But no one Denys they are successful. Why is gamepass held to different standards??

You don't know what their forecasts are... So yes... They may not be making much now (no one knows) but you don't know what it'll be worth in the near future.

 

[kingfey]

Lol! Is it?
I've got gamepass for 3 years for £1. It runs out in 2023. I've got friends who used the £1 for 1 year GP. When it ran out they purchased Xbox live gold 3 years and converted that to gamepass for £7.99. They purchased Xbox live gold for £22.99 per year. So your maths isn't correct.

Are you listening to what you are saying?

Is paying 180$ upfront equal to paying 1$? What kind stupid logic is this?

Also how is xbox live is 22.99 euro?

Here is cd key Xbox live

12 Month Xbox Live Gold Membership - (EU & UK)

Buy 12 Month Xbox Live Gold Membership - (EU & UK) ✔️ CD Key ✔️ Instant download ✔️ Fantastic price ✔️ Membership ✔️

www.cdkeys.com

 

[Hezekiah]

You reek of insecurity and have a big chip on your shoulder. Spamming all of that in less than an hour

Imagine being that sensitive and fragile that you feel the need to track me - don't worry, that signed Phil Spencer controller will be on its way to you soon and you'll much feel better .

 

[Banjo64]

Imagine being that sensitive and fragile that you feel the need to track me - don't worry, that signed Phil Spencer controller will be on its way to you soon and you'll much feel better .

Hard to miss your bleating when you nearly took up the whole of page 3 - sensitive and fragile, least I’m not physically shaking over Game Pass

 

[MonarchJT]

Without numbers he is right. It is just pr words.

no he isn't ...read my post to mod of war ....
if we start bullshitting what high manager or CEO saying ...this place would get worse than gamefaqs in a heartbeat. Practical example that would stir the masses? Sony says PS5 hw is already profitable ... well for me is just pr. Cerny saying that PS5 n never will throttle and never downclock more than 2% ...and given that we do not have the veracity of his statements in this regard and that Sony has not provided any data i don't fuckin trust him and for me is just bs to show higher tf count seen the 12tf of the sx. Do you understand what I mean?
Unless are lies so big that they are taken up by all of the industry it would be better to put limits in calling "lies" "bs" or "untruth" things coming from high manager or ceo

 

[Hezekiah]

Hard to miss your bleating when you nearly took up the whole of page 3 - sensitive and fragile, least I’m not physically shaking over Game Pass

I'm subscribed to it you clown - I just don't believe everything that comes out of some corporate exec's mouth, and worship him like some deity .

 

[DenchDeckard]

As soon as PS NOW steps up I bet these comments change, that's the worst part.

 

[Banjo64]

I'm subscribed to it you clown - I just don't believe everything that comes out of some corporate exec's mouth, and worship him like some deity .

Cool bro, still sperging out about fantasy astroturfing, Indian Game Pass users, PS5 sales, Series S sales and mocking subscriber numbers makes you look insecure and ludicrous. I’m glad you have Game Pass, maybe go play some games instead of stressing out.

 

[reksveks]

Why is it so hard for Microsoft to not just release the bloody numbers?

If it's doing so well, then show them for goodness sake.

Enough with the cloak and daggers script.

Cause its a company that makes about 200bn in revenue and Xbox accounts for 8% for that at a significantly lower profit margin. Investors don't care about xbox as much as we do.

 

[Papacheeks]

Why is it so hard for Microsoft to not just release the bloody numbers?

If it's doing so well, then show them for goodness sake.

Enough with the cloak and daggers script.

I think there's more to it. I think there definitely is metrics type system that when they show numbers they show title engagement for Indie developers. And I think a lot of that is shown behind closed doors with confidence for developers to be able to make bargaining prices if they were to go to another service or if Steam is giving them a raw deal.

But in terms of numbers, at some point they need to release those to the public for investment purposes. Because if they dont then it starts to get attention by people who watch stocks and stock manipulation. The legality loop hole probably is anyone who invests in Microsoft can see these numbers I would argue. But at some point they need to release them for potential stock buyers to make calculated decisions on where they would see growth in their future bought stocks.

As soon as PS NOW steps up I bet these comments change, that's the worst part.

Unless PS NOW starts doing day to date, I dont see that happening. And day to date Sony would lose out on a lot of early adopter money which equates to a lot if you look at titles like Miles, God of war, ghosts.

 

[MonarchJT]

Are you listening to what you are saying?

Is paying 180$ upfront equal to paying 1$? What kind stupid logic is this?

Also how is xbox live is 22.99 euro?

Here is cd key Xbox live

12 Month Xbox Live Gold Membership - (EU & UK)

Buy 12 Month Xbox Live Gold Membership - (EU & UK) ✔️ CD Key ✔️ Instant download ✔️ Fantastic price ✔️ Membership ✔️

www.cdkeys.com

did you get with who you talking ? ))

 

[Hezekiah]

Cool bro, still sperging out about fantasy astroturfing, Indian Game Pass users, PS5 sales, Series S sales and mocking subscriber numbers makes you look insecure and ludicrous. I’m glad you have Game Pass, maybe go play some games instead of stressing out.

Why are you following me around. Seven months of free GamePass in India is real. People resubscribing and getting discounts is real (there was a thread last week). Series S consoles are available all over Europe and elsewhere.

Now I get that this gets you triggered but this is a forum so people are free to talk about it....

 

[nush]

Why is it so hard for Microsoft to not just release the bloody numbers?

If it's doing so well, then show them for goodness sake.

Enough with the cloak and daggers script.

I imagine it's a situation like Amazon that ran at a loss for many years but showed growth, then they turned the corner into profitability.

 

[Papacheeks]

I imagine it's a situation like Amazon that ran at a loss for many years but showed growth, then they turned the corner into profitability.

When did amazon run at a loss? Are you talking Prime Membership/Streaming service? Or their S3, cloud servers?

 

[nush]

When did amazon run at a loss? Are you talking Prime Membership/Streaming service? Or their S3, cloud servers?

Amazon’s profitless path to world domination

Amazon has made $5 billion in profit over the past 20 years. In half the time, Facebook made nearly five times more.

qz.com

TECHNOLOGY; A Surprise From Amazon: Its First Profit (Published 2002)

Amazon.com reports $5 million profit in fourth quarter, its first quarterly profit; sales grew 15 percent, to $1.12 billion; founder-chief executive Jeff Bezos comments (M)

www.nytimes.com

 

[MonarchJT]

Amazon’s profitless path to world domination

Amazon has made $5 billion in profit over the past 20 years. In half the time, Facebook made nearly five times more.

qz.com

TECHNOLOGY; A Surprise From Amazon: Its First Profit (Published 2002)

Amazon.com reports $5 million profit in fourth quarter, its first quarterly profit; sales grew 15 percent, to $1.12 billion; founder-chief executive Jeff Bezos comments (M)

www.nytimes.com

most of people shouting Doom and gloom to gamepass have no idea what long-term investment means. is okay

 

[ToTTenTranz]

This thread is full of warriors with no actual proof that game pass ain’t doing well.

Define doing well.
Is it doing wonders for the Xbox brand and popularity? Definitely.

Is Microsoft profiting from Gamepass in a vacuum? Surely not, otherwise its results would be mentioned in their earnings calls. Like Sony mentions how much money they make out of Plus' ~50 million subscribers.

Only Microsoft and the Xbox division know exactly what their future plan for Gamepass is and how much money they'll invest before starting to recoup costs. And only Phil Spencer knows what "sustainable" really means in his statements. The fact that he carefully avoided the word "profitable" tells a lot more than him claiming it's "sustainable".

 

[kingfey]

Dude it's official way when you are first on GamePass, you pay 3 years of gold and get 1:1 exchange to GamePass.

Official way doesn't do that. 24 month Xbox live is 8 month gamepass ultimate.

The thing with this trick, is that you need to be fresh of gamepass. No gamepass for 3 months. Buy 60$ Xbox live 3x. And get the 1$ promo code, when its running.

 

[MonarchJT]

Define doing well.
Is it doing wonders for the Xbox brand and popularity? Definitely.

Is Microsoft profiting from Gamepass in a vacuum? Surely not, otherwise its results would be mentioned in their earnings calls. Like Sony mentions how much money they make out of Plus' ~50 million subscribers.

Only Microsoft and the Xbox division know exactly what their future plan for Gamepass is and how much money they'll invest before starting to recoup costs. And only Phil Spencer knows what "sustainable" really means in his statements. The fact that he carefully avoided the word "profitable" tells a lot more than him claiming it's "sustainable".

in any language the word sustainable is translated into economics as a zero balance. They're definitely not wasting any money if Spencer says Very Very sustainable.

 

[M1chl]

Official way doesn't do that. 24 month Xbox live is 8 month gamepass ultimate.

The thing with this trick, is that you need to be fresh of gamepass. No gamepass for 3 months. Buy 60$ Xbox live 3x. And get the 1$ promo code, when its running.

That's if I am not mistaken, when you already have lapsed subscription, but when you are new to the service, you get 1:1

Or at least that's how it was.

 

[kingfey]

most of people shouting Doom and gloom to gamepass have no idea what long-term investment means. is okay

Amazon has the most market share with that. It allows them to expand their business more. Any money they gain, will be used to open new market.

From bookstore company, to a trillion company.

 

[Bernd Lauert]

Define doing well.
Is it doing wonders for the Xbox brand and popularity? Definitely.

Is Microsoft profiting from Gamepass in a vacuum? Surely not, otherwise its results would be mentioned in their earnings calls. Like Sony mentions how much money they make out of Plus' ~50 million subscribers.

Only Microsoft and the Xbox division know exactly what their future plan for Gamepass is and how much money they'll invest before starting to recoup costs. And only Phil Spencer knows what "sustainable" really means in his statements. The fact that he carefully avoided the word "profitable" tells a lot more than him claiming it's "sustainable".

Does Microsoft make money with Office 365 subscriptions? They never state if it's profitable or not, so surely they are making a loss on it, right? What about Windows? Must be huge losses too.

 

[Zeroing]

Spencer sure must be a workaholic… we do not see Nintendo, Sony or any other gaming company doing so many interviews…

anyway… y’all are arguing over something that we do not have numbers for. Time will tell if indeed some theories on this thread are true.

 

[kingfey]

That's if I am not mistaken, when you already have lapsed subscription, but when you are new to the service, you get 1:1

Or at least that's how it was.

Correct. Your account have to be fresh from gamepass, or wait the 3 month grace period.

For people who use Xbox, its a loss profit for them. You will pay 30$ of Xbox live for these 3 months to end. So the end price would be 210$.

 

[Outrunner]

It's sustainbale because of the influx it generates to Azure... There are more ways to make money out of it than the subscriptions alone.

 

[MonarchJT]

Spencer sure must be a workaholic… we do not see Nintendo, Sony or any other gaming company doing so many interviews…

anyway… y’all are arguing over something that we do not have numbers for. Time will tell if indeed some theories on this thread are true.

Both Nintendo and especially Sony doesn't seem to have someone at their head loved as much as Spencer but their respective userbase and the media

 

[Bulletbrain]

The push back against GP is so amusing. For a consumer seeking value it's such a good service. Plus, it's available to most people either via an Xbox, a PC, or streaming. MS seems to be doubling down on the strategy so that means it is making some kind of sense to them, business wise. A product or service that is both benefitting the users and the company is the best kind. And GP seems to fall into that category. So, why the hate?

 

[reksveks]

Unless PS NOW starts doing day to date, I dont see that happening. And day to date Sony would lose out on a lot of early adopter money which equates to a lot if you look at titles like Miles, God of war, ghosts.

Sony doesn't sadly give away first party software revenue numbers afaik. They do give units away.

wonder if there was any way to figure that out.

- MTX is about 60% of the Sony's Software revenue
- Game sales is about 40%
- First party software is about 10-20% of Game sales
- Third party is about 80% - 90%

The key thing that we are missing is average sold price between first party and third party but think it is okay to say its the same?

The dumb calculation is that Sony first party games revenue is about 4% - 8% of total software revenue. Lets say you halved that but doing something like PSnow day and date, the question i have is does Sony believe that their user base would grow enough and monetizes itself at the same rate so that add-on content grows by enough % points to cover the 2-4% revenue loss? that's the maths that Xbox is doing, right?

 

[Rea]

Look at this badass, he really showed it to the most valuable company in the world. How will they ever recover from this?

It's fucking awesome, Phill is letting me play his 1st party studio exclusive games with just $1 and also there’s alot of good games like scalet nexus, yakuza , Final fantasy, etc. Phill is the best, man. Thank god i didn't buy those games on PS5 and waste my money.

 

[MonarchJT]

The push back against GP is so amusing. For a consumer seeking value it's such a good service. Plus, it's available to most people either via an Xbox, a PC, or streaming. MS seems to be doubling down on the strategy so that means it is making some kind of sense to them, business wise. A product or service that is both benefitting the users and the company is the best kind. And GP seems to fall into that category. So, why the hate?

you mean the pushback from usual playstation fanboys*

the market out there is absolutely in love with the service and the new approach that Ms have in general....every data showing it

And Sony is and will follow Ms in this

 

[sircaw]

Cause its a company that makes about 200bn in revenue and Xbox accounts for 8% for that at a significantly lower profit margin. Investors don't care about xbox as much as we do.

it just looks kinda shady in my eyes.

We keep getting told it's going well, growing, sustainable, insert your PR language here.

I don't see a reason why they won't show the numbers unless there are some ridiculous amounts of money being given to some game developers to put their work on game pass.

If game pass is doing well, fantastic, more power to gamers that are getting a good deal, but i detest this you need to trust me spiel.

Words are cheap, facts and figures, people are not asking for alot.