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[azertydu91]

Did you watch this Digital Foundry tech video? There's huge differences in character models and the way they animate

Huge difference in the foliage and water

The lighting has improved drastically

The time of day changes are way better with 12 different transitions instead of the 6 in Horizon Zero Dawn

Maybe he just came for the drive by ?

Edit:I should've quoted his name to be clearer , DryvBy

 

[Turk1993]

After watching some more footage, it looks really good on all consoles. They did a outstanding job and made the right compromises on last gen. And the PS5 version is just beautiful and a solid upgrade over the first game.

 

[ABnormal]

So much for the “bbbbut cross gen!” narrative.

Cross gen doesn't limit rendering (aside the cases where expensive dynamic lighting has to be present in old gen versions as well), but hugely limits game design and freedom.
For example, even without playing the game, we can already know that flying mounts will only move slowly, because thay have to work on ps4 and its slow data streaming, which makes impossible to load the game world fast with so much detail.
Without that limit, it would have been possible to fly fast, to dive fast from high altitude to the ground, to dive fast from air to underwater, to ride a raptor running at 50 miles per hour (how fun would that be, instead of going more or less like on foot? Allowing machines gameplays impossible now?), and so on.

 

[saintjules]

oh my stars

Spoiler

 

[DispatchNinja]

Where were this people on last gen? I played all the good games on PS4 with 30fps and enjoyed them. Now 30fps is bad. I suppose they played in PC only...

I used to watch vhs tapes on a CRT tv and really enjoyed them. Doesn't mean I want to go back to it.

 

[Shmunter]

All this 30fps preference talk is shocking, shocking I tell you. We’re going to usher in a gen of 30fps agin

 

[ethomaz]

I used to watch vhs tapes on a CRT tv and really enjoyed them. Doesn't mean I want to go back to it.

While I agree with your point.

I should love to see a expensive CRT with 1080p panel or why not 4k panel? PLASMA is another I wanted to see a 4k display with modern features.

Just to see where it could reach even if expensive.

 

[Hunnybun]

Just watched the gamersyde footage on the tv YouTube app and it does seem like there's a significant difference in fidelity between 4k and the performance mode.

That kind of sucks. It's the first time this generation that's been a problem for me. Normally I can barely notice the difference.

I can't figure out if they've just fucked up the performance mode or if the density of the environments and quality of the assets etc just makes 4k more impactful than usual.

Otoh, for some weird reason the 60fps doesn't actually look that smooth anyway, so maybe it's not as big a sacrifice. Hmmm. I'm guessing I'd probably choose to just play this at 30fpa tbh.

 

[MasterCornholio]

Some good improvements here.

Interesting they decided to tone down the in gameplay hero lighting.

Digital Foundry did say it was a bit much in the first demo. Must be for artistic reasons instead of technical ones.

 

[Javthusiast]

I used to watch vhs tapes on a CRT tv and really enjoyed them. Doesn't mean I want to go back to it.

 

[ethomaz]

Just watched the gamersyde footage on the tv YouTube app and it does seem like there's a significant difference in fidelity between 4k and the performance mode.

That kind of sucks. It's the first time this generation that's been a problem for me. Normally I can barely notice the difference.

I can't figure out if they've just fucked up the performance mode or if the density of the environments and quality of the assets etc just makes 4k more impactful than usual.

Otoh, for some weird reason the 60fps doesn't actually look that smooth anyway, so maybe it's not as big a sacrifice. Hmmm. I'm guessing I'd probably choose to just play this at 30fpa tbh.

Every mode will have compromises over 30fps.

This generation was set to be 2x the mid-gen refresh of last gen… so if you want 30fps games in Pro or XB1 X to have sequels at 60fps on Series X or PS5 you will faded to accept very small IQ improvement.

30fps is where you see games shinning.

That is why I find 120fps a waste for consoles because it will back us to PS3 IQ level.

 

[kingpotato]

Damn, I was going to sleep on this game, but that video just highlights how stunning this game is... Absolutely stellar. I really didn't enjoy the first game, but I'm optimistic by the remarks about how they improved the open world and story.

 

[Shmunter]

Every mode will have compromises over 30fps.

This generation was set to be 2x the mod-gen refresh of last gen… so if you want 30fps games in Pro or XB1 X to have sequels at 60fps on Series X or PS5 you will faded to accept very small IQ improvement.

30fps is where you see games shinning.

That is why I find 120fps a waste for consoles because it will back us to PS3 IQ level.

People disappointed 60fps is not as clear as 30fps need to understand GPU resources are not infinite, if you want more of one - you have to give up something else. It's a resource pie, bigger slice for something means less to go around for other things....always has been always will be...

 

[HTK]

I don't have much interest in Horizon, tried the first game just can't seem to get into it I don't know why.

However, for this game to look this good as an open world game is just awesome. I can't wait to see Guerillas 2nd studio deliver on their shooter. That thing might look insane.

 

[Hunnybun]

Every mode will have compromises over 30fps.

This generation was set to be 2x the mod-gen refresh of last gen… so if you want 30fps games in Pro or XB1 X to have sequels at 60fps on Series X or PS5 you will faded to accept very small IQ improvement.

30fps is where you see games shinning.

That is why I find 120fps a waste for consoles because it will back us to PS3 IQ level.

In my experience the compromises for 60fps have so far been almost non-existent.

Demon's Souls I can barely tell the difference.
Same for Ratchet.
Same for Miles Morales.
Same for the Uncharted remasters.
Deathloop there was a small difference bit no big deal.
Spider-Man Remastered seemed to have worse IQ in performance RT than MM, so I played that in the regular 60fps mode.

The only other game I've chosen resolution over frame rate is Doom Eternal, because I'm blind to 120fps and the RT mode just looks weird to me.

Horizon looks like the first game that'll actually be a tough choice.

 

[Hawking Radiation]

oh my stars

I'll be happy to work the street corners on the weekends to raise the funds necessary to buy a PS5.

I mean I'll suck ass if I have to.

 

[GHG]

All this 30fps preference talk is shocking, shocking I tell you. We’re going to usher in a gen of 30fps agin

Sometimes us men are simple, we just want to look at nice things.

I'll be happy to work the street corners on the weekends to raise the funds necessary to buy a PS5.

I mean I'll suck ass if I have to.

 

[DryvBy]

Maybe he just came for the drive by ?

Edit:I should've quoted his name to be clearer , DryvBy

Sorry, I posted at work and got called into a meeting for an hour.

I did watch the video and Skill Ups (I always prefer DF). I'm not exactly sure why it would make a difference though as the thing I said is like my opinion or something.

 

[The_hunter]

She looks a bit pale in the PS5 version, all versions look pretty awesome though.

Probably the HDR, I don't think base ps4 has HDR. Also lighting changes the color of the skin.

 

[Fredrik]

All this 30fps preference talk is shocking, shocking I tell you. We’re going to usher in a gen of 30fps agin

Yeah, what’s happening here? People need to go play HZD on PS5 while waiting for HFW to release so they realize how big of a deal 60fps is for the gameplay here. I wouldn’t choose 30fps even if performance mode looked worse than on PS4.

 

[Shmunter]

Yeah, what’s happening here? People need to go play HZD on PS5 while waiting for HFW to release so they realize how big of a deal 60fps is for the gameplay here. I wouldn’t choose 30fps even if performance mode looked worse than on PS4.

I'm with you. 30fps is dead to me

 

[ABnormal]

Every mode will have compromises over 30fps.

This generation was set to be 2x the mod-gen refresh of last gen… so if you want 30fps games in Pro or XB1 X to have sequels at 60fps on Series X or PS5 you will faded to accept very small IQ improvement.

30fps is where you see games shinning.

That is why I find 120fps a waste for consoles because it will back us to PS3 IQ level.

The bad thing is that they decided to do a performance mode but aiming too high on resolution, with the result that they had to cut some graphical features. For perfomance mode, I'd have preferred to have 1440p and full rendering. I would play it like that, because the higher perceived solidity allows to enjoy the graphic even more, despite the lower resolution. It's a perception thing, not a frame quality thing. The much higher frame rate makes possible to have a fluid perception of moving details, resulting in a "better looking" game (which is not better on rendering, which would be the same, but on perception of our visual system). I had the same experience with GoW on the Pro: I found it more visually appealing on 60 frames just for that. But to be possible, rendering has to be of the same quality, which is not this case.

 

[Gamerguy84]

I'm sampling both performance/quality until I settle in on a playthrough. This looks amazing by what I just witnessed on DF video. So much that I am downloading the video off GamerSyde right now. I hope my copy gets here a day early.

 

[kikii]

I'm with you. 30fps is dead to me

imagine playing RE1 on ps1 with 10-30 fps, ohh wait u wouldnt know u wasnt even born in that time

 

[Dr Bass]

Sometimes us men are simple, we just want to look at nice things.

How did you know this GIF existed ... and if you didn't ... how did you find it?

No need to answer either of those questions.

 

[RoyBatty]

It looks phenomenal

 

[ethomaz]

The bad thing is that they decided to do a performance mode but aiming too high on resolution, with the result that they had to cut some graphical features. For perfomance mode, I'd have preferred to have 1440p and full rendering. I would play it like that, because the higher perceived solidity allows to enjoy the graphic even more, despite the lower resolution. It's a perception thing, not a frame quality thing. The much higher frame rate makes possible to have a fluid perception of moving details, resulting in a "better looking" game (which is not better on rendering, which would be the same, but on perception of our visual system). I had the same experience with GoW on the Pro: I found it more visually appealing on 60 frames just for that. But to be possible, rendering has to be of the same quality, which is not this case.

Too high? It is 1800p CBR… actually 1600x1800 render… it is near 1 million pixels than 1440p.

Even account for the performance hit to use CBR the 1440p native should not reach that 60fps like 1800p CBR did.

From another angle… half of 4k is around 1530p that is higher than 1440p… in that angle 1440p 60fps was possible if it was only a GPU case.

 

[ABnormal]

Too high? It is 1800p CBR… actually 1600x1800 render… it is near 1 million pixels than 1440p.

Even account for the performance hit to use CBR the 1440p native should not reach that 60fps like 1800p CBR did.

From another angle… half of 4k is around 1530p that is higher than 1440p… in that angle 1440p 60fps was possible if it was only a GPU case.

It is definitely too high, if they weren't able to retain the same rendering quality. I think performance mode should be engineered with the goal of having the same rendering but at the expense of resolution (however low it can be - we already saw many wonderful looking games at 1440p, it's a matter of good AA and scaling). At least, that would be my choice.
Surely I would choose a PS5 Pro where I could have the quality of 4k 30 at 60 fps

 

[Dream-Knife]

Too high? It is 1800p CBR… actually 1600x1800 render… it is near 1 million pixels than 1440p.

Even account for the performance hit to use CBR the 1440p native should not reach that 60fps like 1800p CBR did.

From another angle… half of 4k is around 1530p that is higher than 1440p… in that angle 1440p 60fps was possible if it was only a GPU case.

1600x1800 is 2,880,000 pixels.
2560x1440 is 3,686,400 pixels.

If this game ran at native 1440p it would perform worse. Specifically 22 percent worse.

The game looks fine.

 

[Lethal01]

PC is where it's at for not having to do those trade offs, but you pay for it.

You are doing those trade-offs even on PC, you always have the option to raise the resolution at the cost of lower framerate.

 

[JeloSWE]

They look the same… I can tell it.
The response and motion feels different… not the look.

Let me ask you the same question… if I show a video for you can you tell if it is 30fps or 60fps? I know you can if I show two videos… one 30fps and other 60fps but I really want to know if I show you just one can you really tell me what it is? Because I can’t… if there is don’t have a shift or the other for comparison I can’t tell if a game is 30 or 60fps.

If I go on your home today and watch you playing a game I can’t say if it is running at 30fps or 60fps… unless you shift to another game with a different framerate… after experience the shit I can tell which one lower and higher framerate.

Ohhhh and I can’t tell exactly the framerate is… I can tell one have higher framerate than another after the shift but not say if it is 30, 40, 60, 120, etc.

I can often see if it's 24, 30 or 60 fps right off the bat in most content, games or video alike, as long as there is some movement going on. But it's not just that higher fps makes camera movement increasingly more pleasant but it's the reduced input lag with it's snappier feel of the controls that makes the most difference.

 

[Hunnybun]

It is definitely too high, if they weren't able to retain the same rendering quality. I think performance mode should be engineered with the goal of having the same rendering but at the expense of resolution (however low it can be - we already saw many wonderful looking games at 1440p, it's a matter of good AA and scaling). At least, that would be my choice.
Surely I would choose a PS5 Pro where I could have the quality of 4k 30 at 60 fps

But I don't think the settings are scaled back in the performance mode?

It looks like the opposite problem, not enough resolution of the finer details. To me it seems like they should've reduced a few settings to at least get to 2160p cb.

Or just scale the resolution more aggressively during heavy action. That always seems like an underused solution because who the hell cares what the resolution is in the middle of a big fight?


Just generally, I don't really get why Sony doesn't just roll out Inomniac's temporal injection technique across their studios. It seems like easily the best of the software reconstructions.

 

[VFXVeteran]

There are many Hi-Res comparisons in the written Digital Foundry article. Draw Distance are the same.

Exactly what are you bragging about in this picture. If you zoom it up to it's original size in 4k, you can see the following:

* Low res shadow maps cast from the rocks
* Low poly rocks themselves
* A very aggressive texture filtering that removes all high frequency details of the sand relatively quickly (the falloff is extremely rapid) and the rock in the background looks standard fair. It's not tessellated and the texture on the rock doesn't have high frequency micro details blended into the macro normal texture.

The only thing I see implemented well is the fresnel affect on the water and the water shading itself where it goes from transparent to murky.

So outside of better characters models and textures, also nothing about the 12 pre-baked GI passes vs 6 on HZD. Got it.

Any source for this?

Here is your favorite reviewer reviewing the PC version of HZD (early version)



He mentions how these enhancements to the PC will be migrated to the PS5 for FW. He's correct.

Here is where he mentions how a native 4k makes the rendering quality sharper (i.e. just like the PS5's native 4k version of HFW):



"Textures are better, filtering is better, objects are finer, and the hair and character detail and the shadow maps are all improved".

I don't want to take this further. You are going to believe what you want to believe which is the MO every single time an exclusive PS5 game comes out. You ignore the reality and try to push screenshots down people's throats assuming that people will suddenly believe the rendering is doing something it is not. It's the same story as R&C. So I'm out of this thread..catch you on the next exclusive thread.

 

[CheeseCake]

Sometimes us men are simple, we just want to look at nice things.

 

[Gamerguy84]

Just watched the Gamersyde video. I've been waiting 5 years for this and I(we) have 3 days left. Even though the wait is killing me it's kind of fun lol. I usually don't get this hyped but it's one of the reasons I own this console and another one is coming in March. It's about to get good.

Also GG how about sharing some of that tech with the other studios.

 

[Dr Bass]

YOu are doing those trade off, you always have the option to raise the resolution at the cost of lower framerate.

Yeah, but you can pay a premium to greaten lessen or remove those trade offs. That's just not a possibility on consoles.

 

[Dust-by-Monday]

No chance dude, i'm gonna play at very hard and i need that sweet fluidity, i'm too used to play 95% of games at 60 on my pc (without renouncing too much at the eye candy)

Since you can switch on the fly between perf and res mode, i'm gonna explore more quiet places like temples, submarine locations, villages etc. in res mode, and when there is combat or exploration\climbing i'm gonna switch to perf mode, if i already know that there is a big reveal or cutscene, boom, switch to res mode.

Like the motto says, when life gives you various graphic modes, make lemonade...

Who cares how you wanna play it.

Play it at 60fps if you want or play it at 30fps if you want.

That’s literally why there’s different modes.

I don’t know why people have to defend their choice like it makes a difference.

Play the game how you see fit. If they didn’t want you to, then they wouldn’t have included different options.

I’m not just talking to the person I quoted. I’m talking to everyone that feels the need to tell people that their choice is the “right one”. Who cares. Just play the freaking game.

 

[Shai-Tan]

looks impressive. will play in 202X when PS5 is available

 

[Dust-by-Monday]

Weird because the only mode that feels next-gen in this game is 4k30fps.

The 1800p CBR 60fps looks blurry and dated like a last-gen enhanced version.

I didn’t buy a PS5 to play last gen games at a faster rate hehe, but that’s just me.

 

[KyoZz]

Looks incredible, can't wait to play it.

 

[Three]

I'm probably gonna switch to 30 fos mode when i know that a big cutscene is about to start or during discussions with npc or slow villages exploration etc.

60 fps mode for the remaining 95% of gameplay.

Why would you do this to yourself? I don't think going into menu's to change mode when going in and out of towns is worth the hassle. Just play in image quality/low performance mode. I mean the original HZD was 30fps on PS4 and it was great.

 

[saintjules]

 

[DonJuanSchlong]

Alloy at 5 o'clock shadow

 

[Stooky]

The bad thing is that they decided to do a performance mode but aiming too high on resolution, with the result that they had to cut some graphical features. For perfomance mode, I'd have preferred to have 1440p and full rendering. I would play it like that, because the higher perceived solidity allows to enjoy the graphic even more, despite the lower resolution. It's a perception thing, not a frame quality thing. The much higher frame rate makes possible to have a fluid perception of moving details, resulting in a "better looking" game (which is not better on rendering, which would be the same, but on perception of our visual system). I had the same experience with GoW on the Pro: I found it more visually appealing on 60 frames just for that. But to be possible, rendering has to be of the same quality, which is not this case.

People would complain no matter what they did. My opinion leave it the professionals.

 

[bender]

oh my stars

Spoiler

 

[midasmulligan]

✂️ 🤔 heard pop in major issue…

22 seconds · Clipped by demo4444 · Original video "Horizon Forbidden West is absolutely superb (Review) [No Spoilers]" by Skill Up

youtube.com

And this is post day one patch…

 

[DispatchNinja]

✂️ 🤔 heard pop in major issue…

22 seconds · Clipped by demo4444 · Original video "Horizon Forbidden West is absolutely superb (Review) [No Spoilers]" by Skill Up

youtube.com

And this is post day one patch…

 

[Swift_Star]

I hope this looks good at performance mode in a 1080p TV. I’m not upgrading my set before the C2s are released. I want that EVO panel.

 

[ResetEraVetVIP]

For example, even without playing the game, we can already know that flying mounts will only move slowly, because thay have to work on ps4 and its slow data streaming, which makes impossible to load the game world fast with so much detail.
Without that limit, it would have been possible to fly fast, to dive fast from high altitude to the ground, to dive fast from air to underwater, to ride a raptor running at 50 miles per hour (how fun would that be, instead of going more or less like on foot? Allowing machines gameplays impossible now?), and so on.

I agree.

 

[Airbus Jr]

Man this vfx guy are never happy