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PS5 and PS4 System Software Updates release globally today. VRR update coming soon.

Lognor

Lognor

Banned
So VRR is only going to work for "supported games"? What does that even mean? I assume games already released won't work with VRR unless the devs go back and implement it. So Elden Ring won't be fixed?...Damn, doesn't sound great. Guess we will need to wait and see. It just works on XSX so not sure what the issue could be on Sony's end.
 
DeepEnigma

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
Lognor said:
So VRR is only going to work for "supported games"? What does that even mean? I assume games already released won't work with VRR unless the devs go back and implement it. So Elden Ring won't be fixed?...Damn, doesn't sound great. Guess we will need to wait and see. It just works on XSX so not sure what the issue could be on Sony's end.
Click to expand...
sad oh my god GIF by Lifetime
 
Riky

Riky

$MSFT
Three said:
I see now you went back and edited your post to "other than Halo infinite". Why? because you don't want to accept the one I've provided showing a game might need a patch to benefit from VRR? There are only a handful of 120hz games to begin with. DF don't do VRR tests or even mention it at all so why reject the evidence we have.

Why don't you open a bug report for Halo Infnite and see what MS tells you at least.
Click to expand...
DF doesn't mention VRR?, they have for years and even in one of the first comparisons this gen with Valhalla. You don't need a game to run at 120hz to benefit as Valhalla proved from launch, it works well on 60hz games. They have mentioned it for Elden Ring constantly, you can force 120hz output on Xbox with all games.
Also with Halo Infinite it's the 120hz mode that breaks VRR, 60hz on Series X and S it seems to work fine, so the game does seem to support it.
 
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Shai-Tan

Shai-Tan

Banned
adamsapple said:
Damn. 64% of the sample size on GAF has VRR displays ?

That's actually a LOT higher than I was expecting. I thought maybe within the 20% range max.

Good to see folks are adapting to forward thinking tech. This console generation will last a good 7~8 years at the minimum I reckon. Best to have something that benefits it the whole way through.
Click to expand...
Theres a selection bias (representativeness) problem. people who are more interested in a topic will participate more often i.e. it’s not a random sample, even of the forum (see e.g. what happens in any thread remotely political - bunch of dummies with an agenda enter those topics like moth to flame). That said, wouldnt be surprised that hardcore gamers who hang out on forums (and skew 30+ in age) have newer displays at a rate significantly higher than average gamer
 
Tripolygon

Tripolygon

Banned
adamsapple said:
Tripolygon Tripolygon you're saying the same things and agreeing with me not just a few posts after calling me a troll and having 'cognitive dissonance' for saying the same things before :D
Click to expand...
Two entirely different discussions

You don't need to wonder, my reply about GT7 performance issue has nothing to do with your inability to recognize that some games can still have issues with VRR even if it is a "systemwide" feature that "should just work". Necessitating a "disclaimer" and developer involvement with a patch to fix said "issue".
 
MasterCornholio

MasterCornholio

Member
Bernd Lauert said:
Have you calculated the additional latency and compared it to the total latency every console innately has? It's literally imperceptible. There are no latency issues.
Click to expand...

I was talking about the latency caused by FPS drops. Not additional latency caused by having VRR (something that I'm not aware exists).
 
P

Physiognomonics

Member
Bernd Lauert said:
If you enjoy constant stuttering or playing a last gen version, sure.
Click to expand...
There is not a big difference in that case. Most games currently are cross-gen with few graphics differences. Biggest is usually the framerate. I believe in the case of Elden Ring on Pro there is actually less pop-in than on next-gen versions.

Besides, even with VRR, you'll get lower (and consistant) input latency at 60fps on Pro version (running on PS5) vs 40fps + VRR.
 
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Chukhopops

Chukhopops

Member
RoadHazard said:
That's not really true. VRR doesn't magically increase framerate, it just prevents the visible stuttering and screen tearing you get without VRR if the framerate doesn't match the display refresh rate. So something like 45fps would feel smoother with VRR, but 20 would feel exactly like it does without VRR (because that's a framerate a 60/120hz display can match).

So yes, it makes drops just below the target framerate less jarring, but "no cost" is very wrong. Low framerates will still feel sluggish even with VRR.
Click to expand...
Games are a lot more likely to drop to 50-55 in intense moments than to 20 fps or even sub-40 if the framerate target is 60. It would be odd to have such massive frame drops.

With VRR, you can have a higher resolution that will maintain 60 fps for 98% of the time and it’ll be fine, or you can unlock the framerate entirely and have something that runs at 90 fps most of the time.

As long as you don’t move out of VRR range then framerate variations simply change your frame time (with diminishing returns as you go higher) and don’t matter otherwise.
 
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adamsapple

adamsapple

Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Tripolygon said:
Two entirely different discussions

You don't need to wonder, my reply about GT7 performance issue has nothing to do with your inability to recognize that some games can still have issues with VRR even if it is a "systemwide" feature that "should just work". Necessitating a "disclaimer" and developer involvement with a patch to fix said "issue".
Click to expand...

Good thing is I didn't say it like your second line either, just that if it doesn't work it's an exception, not the rule. We're on the same page after all. Huzzah !(y)

Physiognomonics said:
There is not a big difference in that case. Most games currently are cross-gen with few graphics differences. Biggest is usually the framerate. I believe in the case of Elden Ring on Pro there is actually less pop-in than on next-gen versions.

Besides, even with VRR, you'll get lower (and consistant) input latency at 60fps on Pro vs 40fps + VRR.
Click to expand...

Pro ?

We talking about a hypothetical PS5 Pro that may or may not exist or come out for a few years ?
 
Riky

Riky

$MSFT
MasterCornholio said:
I was talking about the latency caused by FPS drops. Not additional latency caused by having VRR (something that I'm not aware exists).
Click to expand...

"Gameplay in many PS5 titles feels smoother as scenes render instantly, graphics look crisper, and input lag is reduced"

Sony says input lag is reduced in the statement.
 
adamsapple

adamsapple

Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Riky said:
"Gameplay in many PS5 titles feels smoother as scenes render instantly, graphics look crisper, and input lag is reduced"

Sony says input lag is reduced in the statement.
Click to expand...

Of course, one of the biggest benefits of VRR is consistent response. No judder, no refresh mismatch between game and display. Consistent input response.

VRR offers nothing but net benefits.

There may or may not be individual cases where some TVs disable local dimming for it, but eh.


M1chl said:
This is why VRR is important even for 60 locked FPS games... Triple buffer does cause input latency. So when people say that VRR feels better, it's just due to input latency.
Click to expand...

Exactly, VRR doesn't 'magically add more frames' as some think lol.

But it does do multiple things that add up to make for a better experience. No tearing, no judder, consistent response.
 
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N

NickFire

Member
Lognor said:
So VRR is only going to work for "supported games"? What does that even mean? I assume games already released won't work with VRR unless the devs go back and implement it. So Elden Ring won't be fixed?...Damn, doesn't sound great. Guess we will need to wait and see. It just works on XSX so not sure what the issue could be on Sony's end.
Click to expand...
This news must have been hard to read for you. When all you have left is hopes that Elden Ring gets forgotten by the devs after VRR releases finally, it must be tough to bear. Feel better soon.
 
RoadHazard

RoadHazard

Gold Member
Chukhopops said:
Games are a lot more likely to drop to 50-55 in intense moments than to 20 fps or even sub-40 if the framerate target is 60. It would be odd to have such massive frame drops.

With VRR, you can have a higher resolution that will maintain 60 fps for 98% of the time and it’ll be fine, or you can unlock the framerate entirely and have something that runs at 90 fps most of the time.

As long as you don’t move out of VRR range then framerate variations simply change your frame time (with diminishing returns as you go higher) and don’t matter otherwise.
Click to expand...

I mean, 50fps is still less smooth than 60, even with VRR. But yes, you're right in general of course, VRR is a great solution to stuttering and screen tearing caused by dropped frames. It's just that some people seem to believe that VRR actually improves performance, which it does not (well, it can allow uncapped framerates above 60, as you say).
 
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S0ULZB0URNE

S0ULZB0URNE

Member
Riky said:
"As an added option, you can also choose to apply VRR to PS5 games that don’t support it. This feature may improve video quality for some games. If this results in any unexpected visual effects, you can turn off this option at any time"

Unbelievable.
Click to expand...
"You seem to have trouble reading.

It talks about patching support, it talks about future games "may" have support. It talks about turning it off for "unsupported" games.
That isn't as it stands "works for everything" like you are claiming, I hope it does work for everything or close to it as it should do."




WTF

Ah3Uo1N.gif
 
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adamsapple

adamsapple

Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
S0ULZB0URNE said:
"You seem to have trouble reading.

It talks about patching support, it talks about future games "may" have support. It talks about turning it off for "unsupported" games.
That isn't as it stands "works for everything" like you are claiming, I hope it does work for everything or close to it as it should do."
Click to expand...

Except the article says exactly that.

1rvkm4.png
 
Dust-by-Monday

Dust-by-Monday

Member
ToTTenTranz said:
No, I don't. Because it's not true.

It's enabling VSync + framerate limiter at 30 or 60FPS that renders VRR useless because that becomes the maximum framerate threshold. What does need to be set is VSync value corresponding to the TV's/monitor's maximum refresh rate and that's most probably enabled automatically by the O.S.

Sony apparently enabled the means to get the system to take away the framerate limiter in all PS5 games, no matter the engine. It was a really nice foresight on their part, as most of us thought all games would need to get a patch.
Click to expand...
If you remove vsync, you need to limit the frame rate, or else the frame rate has the ability to go PAST the VRR window and if that happens, then VRR is rendered useless.

Best thing to do is limit the frame rate to just barely under what your max refresh rate is, then VRR will be active at all times, however I doubt Sony will do that, so vsync is the next best option. By enabling vsync, your frame rate will never exceed your refresh rate, therefore you'll never ever get tearing. When the frame rate hits the max refresh rate, vsync will take over and when it dips below, VRR will take over.

Make sense?
 
Dust-by-Monday

Dust-by-Monday

Member
tmlDan said:
it's not a priority, as mentioned most of the populations does not have a device that supports VRR, the same goes for 1440p.

It's a vocal minority, there is no rush tbh.
Click to expand...
How much of the population even has HDMI 2.1?

It's going to be a pretty niche thing for a while on PS5.

At least Xbox owners have the choice of using FreeSync which really expands their options in TVs/monitors.
 
Arioco

Arioco

Member
Lognor said:
So VRR is only going to work for "supported games"? What does that even mean? I assume games already released won't work with VRR unless the devs go back and implement it. So Elden Ring won't be fixed?...Damn, doesn't sound great. Guess we will need to wait and see. It just works on XSX so not sure what the issue could be on Sony's end.
Click to expand...


As I understand it you can enable it for any game, even the ones launched before this update, but in case it causes any kind of problem you can disable it and play the game as you always did. So it works like the PS4 Pro boost mode, which you could leave on but since it could potentially cause issues with previous games you were given the option to disable it. Personaly I've left it always on and I haven't seen any assue at all in the games I played on my Pro, just a better performance, but maybe other users had a different experience with that boost mode.
 
T

Three

Member
adamsapple said:
My post was edited within 2, 3 minutes. You sat on my unedited post in quotations probably sifting through digital foundry articles quickly to try and find another example.

The fact that you haven't yet posted one shows you couldn't find one.

An exception is an exception, not the rule.

From Sony's mouth themselves. If you're calling Sony liars as well, that's your prerogative!
Click to expand...
Didn't sit through any DF stuff during your edit time. Didn't care to because I know they don't test or mention VRR in most of their showings. It wasn't a 2-3 minute window for your edit either but what does it matter? Why are you suggesting it?

What would I be calling Sony liars about exactly?

"As an added option, you can also choose to apply VRR to PS5 games that don’t support it"

Why would they even mention games that don't support it if all games are the same?

I don't understand what you're saying. You're the one calling them liars saying games don't need support.

Your mate riky posted this
Riky said:
"As an added option, you can also choose to apply VRR to PS5 games that don’t support it. "...

Unbelievable.
Click to expand...


Then somebody asked how it differs to xbox, then somebody else posted Halo saying it doesn't differ and games still need support. Then you entered posting a quote saying Halo does have VRR it just isn't doing what VRR is ment to do. Then you brushed it off as a bug when it's not.

Instead of bickering here about a menu toggle and whether games need support to benefit from it go open that bug report for Halo and help your xbox comrades instead.
 
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Riky

Riky

$MSFT
Three said:
Didn't sit through any DF stuff during your edit time. Didn't care to because I know they don't test or mention VRR in most of their showings. It wasn't a 2-3 minute window for your edit either but what does it matter? Why are you suggesting?

What would I be calling Sony liars about exactly?

"As an added option, you can also choose to apply VRR to PS5 games that don’t support it"

Why would they even mention games that don't support it if all games are the same?

I don't understand what you're saying. You're the one calling them liars saying games don't need support.

Your mate riky posted this



Then somebody asked how it differs to xbox, then somebody else posted Halo saying it doesn't differ and games still need support. Then you entered posting a quote saying Halo does have VRR it just isn't doing what VRR is ment to do. Then you brushed it off as a bug when it's not.

Instead of bickering here about a menu toggle and whether games need support to benefit from it go open that bug report for Halo and help your xbox comrades instead.
Click to expand...

I think DF already informed 343.

I have over 600 games on my Xbox and you're talking about one mode on one game, it's a bug.
 
Negotiator101

Negotiator101

Member
DJ12 said:
Are you that dumb?

Just in case you are

This literally says you can turn on vrr even if the game hasn't been patched for it.

Urgo every game can have vrr enabled.

Now GTFO and come up with a new default response for your console warring.
Click to expand...
What it actually says is and I'll paraphrase, you can turn on VRR for games that don't support VRR ( meaning it's on a game by game basis). It works on all games on Xbox I presume? You can use it on games that don't support VRR but they are saying it may not work as it should.

Riky is quite right in questioning the wording of the press release.
 
tmlDan

tmlDan

Member
Dust-by-Monday said:
How much of the population even has HDMI 2.1?

It's going to be a pretty niche thing for a while on PS5.

At least Xbox owners have the choice of using FreeSync which really expands their options in TVs/monitors.
Click to expand...
barely anyone, enthusiasts are justifiably complaining since they are the core diehard loyals but in the grand scheme of things its not a big deal.
 
DJ12

DJ12

Member
Negotiator101 said:
What it actually says is and I'll paraphrase, you can turn on VRR for games that don't support VRR ( meaning it's on a game by game basis). It works on all games on Xbox I presume? You can use it on games that don't support VRR but they are saying it may not work as it should.

Riky is quite right in questioning the wording of the press release.
Click to expand...
Nope.

It's in the system settings and you can turn it on for everything, even if it breaks games.

There's even a picture of it, which I wouldve thought would be easier for some to understand than words, clearly not.

It's a system level setting, let's move on and not discuss people's inability to read or interpret images any further.
 
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adamsapple

adamsapple

Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
S0ULZB0URNE said:
I see may improve.
I don't see that it won't work for everything.
Click to expand...

The fact that you can turn it on for everything is as good as we're gonna get outside of someone individually testing all PS4 and 5 games one by one.

Which is never gonna happen.


Riky said:
I think DF already informed 343.

I have over 600 games on my Xbox and you're talking about one mode on one game, it's a bug.
Click to expand...

It's strange right, people keep bringing up that one example ignoring the thousands of others that don't have that issue.

Lotta Jenny McCarthy's up in here.


ethomaz said:
What are you even talking about? lol
Man I never negated the feature for what it is.
Click to expand...

Then why keep posting the "GT7 doesn't need VRR" type comments lol

who cares if GT7 doesn't need VRR, even though it would benefit in the replays.

It's a system level feature and every game universally will benefit from it being there.
 
MrTentakel

MrTentakel

Member
tmlDan said:
barely anyone, enthusiasts are justifiably complaining since they are the core diehard loyals but in the grand scheme of things its not a big deal.
Click to expand...
It`s a feature which has been promised before the release of the console, a console which has been released November 2020.
Shouldn´t companies deliver on their promises even if you don´t personally care about the feature?
 
T

Three

Member
Riky said:
I think DF already informed 343.

I have over 600 games on my Xbox and you're talking about one mode on one game, it's a bug.
Click to expand...
So they sat on it for 6 months and still didn't fix it in their latest bug fixes. Where do you think that quote from DF adamsapple posted is from? They likely got a reply that it isn't broken or a bug but it still isn't benefiting from VRR because of their particular v-sync setup. If you still think it's a bug open a bug report and see if they close it.
 
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