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[DarkMage619]

Do you guys realize that the highest tier cost $10 a month? Like......who we fooling? Some of yall are acting as if Sony is asking people to pay $20 a month just for this feature alone. It's only "ONE" of the features of the $10 a month tier! The value is in the full offering of that $10 a month tier. Not any one feature.

A trial shouldn't cost any money at all. Also unless Sony allows for streaming of these trial games it would be quite cumbersome to download a full 50+GB title to play it for 2 hours. This should be part of the baseline PS+ Essential at most.

 

[kyliethicc]

X doubt

Cyberpunk 2077 and Call of Duty proves that people will spend full price to see if they like a game and then they will complain bitterly and demand refunds when they don't. There are tons of morons on this website that still preorder games in the year 2022.

It's sketchy that people have to subscribe to try before they buy, but I guess it minimizes the collateral damage to bad developers as opposed to just letting everyone try everything for two hours. Which is what they should really do.

I’m not paying $70 to see if I like Forspoken. Doubt I will. But if I could try it out on the sticks…

Meanwhile, I tried the Battlefield and CoD “betas” and said nah.

Going hands on first is always nice. But it doesn’t guarantee a sale.

 

[ReBurn]

If it's true that a study shows more demos/trials = less sales because gamers think the game is shit, that's fine by me. More demos and trials the better.

It's on devs to make a good game, as opposed to buyer beware tactics of the games industry. One of the few that doesn't allow refunds unless you call customer service and hope they refund your digital copy. Physical games youre shit out of luck.

As for devs crying gamers will refund a game after they beat it, too bad. It's not like a 2 hour trial is going to have anyone coming close to beating any game unless it's an indie game. And this $34 whole/$45 retail threshold excludes all those small scale games. So the only devs who have to worry are ones who make big budget games that are shit or short games at about $45 US.

Believe it or not, you can even refund a book to a bookstore. As long as it's not tattered, you can technically plow through a novel over a weekend and refund it as long as it's still in good condition.

The book authors have nothing to fear from me. I can't read a post on a message board over 3 paragraphs long. There's no way I'm powering though a book in a weekend.

 

[adamsapple]

I’m not paying $70 to see if I like Forspoken. Doubt I will. But if I could try it out on the sticks…

Meanwhile, I tried the Battlefield and CoD “betas” and said nah.

Going hands on first is always nice. But it doesn’t guarantee a sale.

Exactly, if anything it increases the likely hood of loosing a sale.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

The book authors have nothing to fear from me. I can't read a post on a message board over 3 paragraphs long. There's no way I'm powering though a book in a weekend.

That was just an exaggerated example. In reality, Chapters/Indigo stores here have 30 day returns on books. Their policy allows returns as long as it's resalable condition.

 

[reksveks]

So yeah....if this doesn't turn out well then I'm sure we will hear about it.

Yeah, it will be interesting to see what happens.

Re Sony listening to publishers, it's always a balance and compromise between what Sony want, what they can get away with and what devs/publishers want. This at the moment is quite similar to the cross-platform player situation on that front.

 

[kyliethicc]

Exactly, if anything it increases the likely hood of loosing a sale.

Not really.

I wasn’t going to buy CoD or BF without trying them first. They lost nothing by letting me try, really.

 

[Heisenberg007]

I’m not paying $70 to see if I like Forspoken. Doubt I will. But if I could try it out on the sticks…

Meanwhile, I tried the Battlefield and CoD “betas” and said nah.

Going hands on first is always nice. But it doesn’t guarantee a sale.

Exactly.

I was about to buy BF2042, then I played the beta, and I was like nah fuck that shit. lol

On the other hand, if the game is indeed good, something like Returnal or Demon's Souls (PS3) or Guardians of the Galaxy or Hollow Knight that went under the radar for quite some time before good word of mouth helped with the numbers, the devs can really benefit from something like this.

The condition, however, is that the game should be good. And such a condition is a win-win for both gamers and developers.

 

[Topher]

A trial shouldn't cost any money at all.

Does this apply to EA Play as well?

 

[DarkMage619]

Does this apply to EA Play as well?

You can't find one post where I've said ANYONE should charge for a trial. Admittedly I only access EA games through Game pass and those titles aren't trials that cut off after a 2 hour period so it's not the same thing.

 

[Thirty7ven]

And ps plus free monthly games aren't devaluing games ?

Obvious no.

 

[Topher]

You can't find one post where I've said ANYONE should charge for a trial.

I didn't say you did.

 

[adamsapple]

Not really.

I wasn’t going to buy CoD or BF without trying them first. They lost nothing by letting me try, really.

I guess it varies person to person, but the EA Play trials have been pretty invaluable in the sense that i've often gotten my 'fill' out of games in the trial 10 hour and feel no need to buy them even if I enjoyed the time I had with the trials.

I constantly read about how Gamepass whole thing is that it let you try games so there you go, gamepass without devaluing games.

Had theorized about this exact option before and feel vindicated.

You're comparing limited trials to full retail games. Not even close to being the same thing.

 

[DarkMage619]

I didn't say you did.

What is the point of your question then? Trials and demos should not cost money. It doesn't matter who is doing the charging.

 

[dcmk7]

People are saying there is no value in effectively a try before you buy?

 

[reksveks]

 

[GHG]

Further confirmation:

schaft0620 and J jaysius

It's not built into the os lol, we are all dumber for having read this.

We all feel dumber right? Well let me help you to feel more dumb:

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Exactly.

I was about to buy BF2042, then I played the beta, and I was like nah fuck that shit. lol

On the other hand, if the game is indeed good, something like Returnal or Demon's Souls (PS3) or Guardians of the Galaxy or Hollow Knight that went under the radar for quite some time before good word of mouth helped with the numbers, the devs can really benefit from something like this.

The condition, however, is that the game should be good. And such a condition is a win-win for both gamers and developers.

During the 360 days, I bought shit loads of XBLA and XBLIG because they had demos/trials. I probably bought 10 twin stick shooters on XBLIG alone. And believe it or not I'd say most of them I bought were better than Geometry Wars. Even though these games are dirt cheap it doesn't matter. I'm not rolling the dice on a potentially shit game even if it's only $5 or 400 Xbox pts back then. And same holds true now.

And the same hold true for bigger budget games. I'm not going to randomly buy a $60 game unless it's a tried and true kind of franchise (sequel-itis).

I've bought way fewer of these kinds of budget games since Xbox One because demos/trials are rare for these budget games now.

The 2 hour trial should be welcomed even more than back then because 360 demos you could play forever (although indie games were 10 minute timers). So a gamer who doesn't want to pay a dime buying a game could download and play 1000 games. 2 hr timers and only for some games gets a cheap gamer only so far.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Only if they're not being compensated. This is also done OS/SDK level so no "extra work" is needed.

Would they complain if Sony adopted Steam's 2 hour return policy universally, or.......?

 

[Topher]

What is the point of your question then? Trials and demos should not cost money. It doesn't matter who is doing the charging.

And yet I've never seen you or anyone else complain about them until now. Maybe you have and I just missed it.

 

[GHG]

I wonder if Sony is going to pay developers when people play game trials that they are making to support the subscription service. Hopefully developers get paid for their effort if people who play the trial don't buy the game.

I would expect so, if not I don't see what's in it for the developers/publishers.

My feeling is that they will have proposed some sort of fee % reduction for all trials that convert in to full purchases. It wouldn't make much sense to dish out money just for the games being booted up.

 

[reksveks]

Would they complain if Sony adopted Steam's 2 hour return policy universally, or.......?

i know people do this comparison but I suspect that less people refund stuff even if they don't like the game in the first two hours than people not buying a game after 2 hours.

I don't think i worded that well so hopefully you get the point.

 

[Salty Popsicle]

Game demos should not be behind a paywall. I remember a time when game demo discs would be included for free with video game magazines, namely OXM. If anything, these demos should be available to everyone regardless of subscription status, though people with a subscription can be incentivized by getting a 10% or 15% discount if they decide to purchase the full game.

 

[GHG]

Would they complain if Sony adopted Steam's 2 hour return policy universally, or.......?

And this is where all the idiotic "it would hurt devs" and "it would hurt sales" arguments fall flat on their faces.

I previously referenced Elden Ring's Steam sales in response to one of those arguments earlier and didn't get a reply, not even an acknowledgement. I wonder why.

 

[Warablo]

Hasn't this been tried before and failed? This is like a Band-Aid instead of a proper refund system.

 

[mckmas8808]

Arrogant Sony is back !!! (I don't know what they are thinking)
Wouldn't it be easy to circumvent this by skipping the PS store alltogether, if a company only releases physical you can't force the trial.
Or is releasing on PS store mandatory?

Why would a publisher want to avoid this?

 

[March Climber]

Is there a timeline between when Sony & Microsoft made trophies/achievements mandatory and when devs/pubs actually had to implement them? Also I'm curious if implementing trails will be at the same level of added work as trophies & achievements were.

Apologies, I don't have actual written evidence for you yet so I only have my memory to go from as of now. From what I remember, Xbox 360 required them at launch as it was one of the features they advertised for the console's launch. I remember launch game achievements either being ridiculously easy or ridiculously hard until gears of war showed developers how to do them better. I remember trophies being added either late 2008 or 2009, right before the "It only does everything" slim rebrand and right after MGS4. I remember people begging Konami for trophies on this game specifically because it released so close to the launch of trophies.

 

[FrankWza]

And ps plus free monthly games aren't devaluing games ?

Compare the amount of posts that say they’re going to wait for a new release to hit ps plus to the ones that say they’ll wait for gamepass. I’d guess the ratio is 15 or 20:1 and that might be conservative

 

[Zeroing]

And yet I've never seen you or anyone else complain about them until now.

I’ll middle in the conversation! I agree with you!

game demos stopped to exist!

before the internet was so widespread, people brought magazines with cds of game demos

gaming journalists have to obey to publisher rules or they stop getting review codes

not the first time games are falsely advertised with the end result being bugs

devs aren’t going to be willing to put out game demos unless they are 100% confident on their final game
So I conclusion! Although not perfect this is a concession, only those who will have the service will have access to it, therefore it will not impact much the sales.

In a perfect world all games should have at least a way to play before you buy! I’m seeing games as software! Even evil adobe let’s you do a trial before you buy their photoshop!

So who’s to blame here? Devs and publishers who rather bet on hype, marketing and opinions so their games sell.

 

[mckmas8808]

I don't get the point of demos in 2022 when you can just adopt Steam's system of 2h refund on the complete game. It feels uselessly messy.

Still a little annoyed about that. Asking devs for additionnal free labor without compensation just to help Sony sell Premium would be really crass.

You're assuming that people would rather spend $60 first and then get a refund later. Rather than pay nothing upfront, play the game for 2 hours, and just not buy the game if they don't like it.

 

[March Climber]

I remember a time when game demo discs would be included for free with video game magazines, namely OXM.

This is very similar to what they're doing. You're paying for a subscription to a service, like a magazine for example(they weren't free), and the demos are a free bonus.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Game demos should not be behind a paywall. I remember a time when game demo discs would be included for free with video game magazines, namely OXM. If anything, these demos should be available to everyone regardless of subscription status, though people with a subscription can be incentivized by getting a 10% or 15% discount if they decide to purchase the full game.

I remember my bro buying PC game mags in the early 90s and it came with a 3.5 disc.

I think a key reason why a lot of game makers dont want to do demos or trials is due to the huge skew to everyone buying digital, combined with knowing deep down their game is shit (flea market buyer beware tactic). Companies dont need to do physical demo discs or shareware kind of shit anymore in magazines or copromote games. EA used to copromote EA Sports all the time in their game boxes with inserts and during the 90s, their mail-in voucher would be buy 1 PC EA Sport game get 1 free or some kind of deal I forget.

Now, all the game maker needs is a prelaunch marketing push and you got millions of potential gamers ready to buy it fast with the click of a download button.

 

[nominedomine]

This guys is getting way too obvious about his agenda. He spins everything in a positive light but now decides to stand up to 2h trials?

I get if people are mad that it's behind a paywall instead of available for everyone, it's the only valid criticism.

 

[mckmas8808]

Exactly. It's typical Sony. Want to have their cake and eat it, too.
They could make this a free service, but they don't. They could refund games if buggy, but they don't. They could give developers a choice and/or pay them for the demo, but they don't.

They only want stuff that benefits them and everyone else has to burden the work, costs ND risks.

What's the point of having cake, if you can't eat it?

 

[GHG]

Why would a publisher want to avoid this?

Because their game is shit and/or broken and not worthy of being a full priced release. They hoped to dupe customers into pre ordering and purchasing day 1 via hyped up marketing campaigns but now this trial requirement throws a spanner in the works for them.

They now actually need to get to work and produce a game that people will actually want to buy after trying it.

 

[THE DUCK]

Making devs mad at you is bad. But if everyone is on board, it should be funny if MS follow suit and requires it and offers it for free. Guess we will see.

 

[DeepEnigma]

i know people do this comparison but I suspect that less people refund stuff even if they don't like the game in the first two hours than people not buying a game after 2 hours.

I don't think i worded that well so hopefully you get the point.

Nah. It's the same damned thing.

You don't like a game in 2 hours, you return it. You don't like a game in 2 hours, you don't buy it.

 

[Tiago Rodrigues]

This guys is getting way too obvious about what he is doing.

Everyone on twitter commenting on something that was reported by a single source outside of Sony...something that affects developers and publishers...and the ones commenting are actually people with no knowledge on how this is going to work.

If this isn't peak twitter moment i don't know what is.

 

[GHG]

Making devs mad at you is bad. But if everyone is on board, it should be funny if MS follow suit and requires it and offers it for free. Guess we will see.

Well that would be a good thing because Steam also offer pretty much the same thing for free provided you're willing to put up a deposit (the price of the game).

At least then we will be able to stop worrying about how shit games will bomb commercially.

 

[DarkMage619]

And yet I've never seen you or anyone else complain about them until now. Maybe you have and I just missed it.

Maybe because there a difference between a platform holder and a single developer doing this policy? I can easily avoid EA titles as a whole. A lot harder to avoid the entire PlayStation ecosystem. Generally as a rule of thumb trials/demos don't cost money.

 

[nominedomine]

Everyone on twitter commenting on something that was reported by a single source outside of Sony...something that affects developers and publishers...and the ones commenting are actually people with no knowledge on how this is going to work.

If this isn't peak twitter moment i don't know what is.

All these publishers are on Steam and there is the 2 hours return policy in effect there, close to the same thing (it's a lot more risky to have that on PC, since a lot more things can go wrong). The difference is Sony put it behind a paywall, but then again online multiplayer is free on PC and behind a paywall on consoles.

Any publisher afraid of this can get wrecked for all I care.

 

[mckmas8808]

At launch, no but there is a forced trial after 3 month that devs have to allow/take without recompense.

There is still a risk however minimal (I can agree that that it is probably) and the devs are the ones who are taking it.

I don't like the principle of Sony or any platform holder being able to force this on devs/publishers.

I am interested to see how this plays out.

Then they can choose to not release the game on Playstation. That is an option. I think it'll be less than 5% of devs and publishers that will find this to be an actual issue. Only trolls and fanboys will find issues with this. You can see the logical breaking apart in this very thread.

1. Some trolls complain that it's behind a paywall and it only has access to a small "VIP" group of people
2. Some trolls say it'll hurt devs because they'll lose too much money


Well......which one is it? Is it too niche or will it be too widely accepted by gamers? Make up your minds!

 

[reksveks]

Nah. It's the same damned thing.

You don't like a game in 2 hours, you return it. You don't like a game in 2 hours, you don't buy it.

People don't act the same if the default is different, it is a form of the nudge effort

 

[yurinka]

Game demos should not be behind a paywall. I remember a time when game demo discs would be included for free with video game magazines, namely OXM. If anything, these demos should be available to everyone regardless of subscription status, though people with a subscription can be incentivized by getting a 10% or 15% discount if they decide to purchase the full game.

The magazines weren't free, they were behind a paywall too.

And here were aren't talking about a handful demos, we're talking having access to time limited trials for ALL new ~$50+ 1st and 3rd games (so basically all AAA games). They offer it to you as part of a service, a benefit more for its most expensive tier. If you think isn't worth it, don't buy the service.

Sony will continue allowing publishers to release demos, free trials or free weekends for free open to all players for the devs who decide to make them. They also can make them for other platforms.

 

[DeepEnigma]

People don't act the same if the default is different, it is a form of the nudge effort

The "no risk" outcome is the same.

 

[Tripolygon]

Maybe because there a difference between a platform holder and a single developer doing this policy? I can easily avoid EA titles as a whole. A lot harder to avoid the entire PlayStation ecosystem. Generally as a rule of thumb trials/demos don't cost money.

Why would you as a consumer avoid a platform over a feature that nets you the user 2hr trial of every major title? Trials and demos don't cost money but the majority of developers don't provide it. This makes it a platform requirement for major publishers and studios. You as a consumer lose nothing as that same demo can be provided for free to everyone by the developers.

 

[schaft0620]

schaft0620 and J jaysius

We all feel dumber right? Well let me help you to feel more dumb:

There is so much shit out there right now about pissed off publishers, IDK why you keep doubling down on this.

 

[Ladioss]

You're assuming that people would rather spend $60 first and then get a refund later. Rather than pay nothing upfront, play the game for 2 hours, and just not buy the game if they don't like it.

Good point.

 

[mckmas8808]

I dont see how this trial can be bad for any game maker unless it's such a shit game the dev purposely wants to prevent gamers testing it in hopes millions of gamers buy it blind on day one. Not exactly ethical. It's only a 2 hour trials for higher budget/priced games, Sony is doing the work, and it's not like 2 hours is enough time to beat a game or come close to it.

If anything devs should be happy.

The key excuses devs make (or gamers make for them) about demos/trials is 1. It's some kind of monumental costly task to make. 2. It's a demo/trial of a year old beta build. Well, those two issues are solved. Sony is doing the work and it's the final game.

A lot of game makers put out their own beta/trials anyway a month or two before launch. So this new process gives gamers a test of the final game.

It's weird that we now live in a world where people are forgetting that we "USED" to play ALL these $60 and up games at public events like E3, Gamecom, PAX, etc.......but NOW all of a sudden these big publishers don't want gamers to play their games for a limited amount of time before or after it's released.

The fake outrage in this thread is trash and disgusting. Some of yall just need to use your brains first and type second.

 

[Tripolygon]

There is so much shit out there right now about pissed off publishers, IDK why you keep doubling down on this.

Which pissed publishers?