Topher
Gold Member
I find it very odd that a guy who is a professional in the industry isn't asking more questions rather than expressing outright negativity and sarcasm with no more details about this than anyone else.
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Sony is requiring devs to offer timed game trials for PS+ Premium subscribers for games that cost more than $34 (Update: Wholesale Pricing)
- Thread starter HeisenbergFX4
- Start date
- Rumor
I find it very odd that a guy who is a professional in the industry isn't asking more questions rather than expressing outright negativity and sarcasm with no more details about this than anyone else.
nominedomine
Banned
They learned it from the best. Why give something away for free if you can charge for it and people won't think twice about paying for it?
Nothing was behind a paywall on PS3, you could even install Linux. The result? They lost market share to a competitor that had everything behind a paywall, including absurd things like apps and the web browser. That is what shaped modern Sony.
Just like microtransactions the battle against the paywall was lost long ago. I'm game to pretend that we are outraged about this to see if they make it a system wide policy but I don't like our odds.
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GHG
Member
What are you talking about?
Why do you have such a hard time admitting you were wrong?
Again you are missing the point about defaults but let's move on
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Tripolygon
Banned
If I understand you correctly, you are talking about corporations preying on people being less likely to ask for a refund even if they don't like something.
How is that good for consumers?
With this route, the default is you can try before you commit to buying instead of having to put your money upfront. It is the same tactic corporations use when they offer free trials but you have to give them payment information because often people forget to cancel.
Topher
Gold Member
There is? Where?
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
nominedomine
Banned
In that sense it's an improvement, I would accept this on Steam as a replacement for what we currently have (obviously not behind a paywall). Just ask for the person to agree that by not participating in the trial he is waving his two hours refund window, it simplify things and it works great against the pre-order practice that I don't see as a good thing for digital goods anyway.
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DarkMage619
$MSFT
If those 2 hour trials were free I'd completely agree with you. Historically trials/demos didn't cost money as you acknowledged so it's not great to change that. Making it a requirement doesn't really sound like an amazing deal for the developers either. So customers are paying for something that was free and developers are offering something they may not have bothered with in the first place. I CAN certainly see the benefit for Sony and perhaps that is what some care the most about.
Tripolygon
Banned
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Ya think he's being sarcastic here cause he's getting tired of being bombarded by keyboard analysts over twitter ?
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
If only Sony and MS did mandatory 2 hour trials of the final game for all games for everyone (all tiers).
I guarantee that would shake up the industry to make better games.
Why do you think everything you buy at Costco is pretty good? That's because they got an unlimited return policy for most stuff, and that stuff gets returned back to the supplier for credit back to Costco. And the vast majority of returns get tossed in the trash for a loss. And since Costco is a physical goods kind of store, shit has a decent cost to it. It's not like software where the cost to transmit a file is probably a penny of bandwidth.
So what Costco's model does is keep suppliers on the best behaviour not to sell a lousy product.
Every company I've worked at (except one) has had Costco business and that line of products (even though small) always gets a ton of internal attention for quality and price. Nobody wants to feel the wrath of huge Costco returns and a product that will likely be delisted due to shittiness.
I guarantee that would shake up the industry to make better games.
Why do you think everything you buy at Costco is pretty good? That's because they got an unlimited return policy for most stuff, and that stuff gets returned back to the supplier for credit back to Costco. And the vast majority of returns get tossed in the trash for a loss. And since Costco is a physical goods kind of store, shit has a decent cost to it. It's not like software where the cost to transmit a file is probably a penny of bandwidth.
So what Costco's model does is keep suppliers on the best behaviour not to sell a lousy product.
Every company I've worked at (except one) has had Costco business and that line of products (even though small) always gets a ton of internal attention for quality and price. Nobody wants to feel the wrath of huge Costco returns and a product that will likely be delisted due to shittiness.
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nominedomine
Banned
The headline should be: "Sony wants to implement the Steam refund policy behind a paywall", would get the right message across.
Sony is getting praised and criticized for the wrong reasons. The policy is great, the fact that it's behind a paywall isn't (but it is still inline with the bullshit console players have been subjected to since the Xbox 360 days).
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Topher
Gold Member
He posted that sarcastic tweet immediately in line with the previous ones and it wasn't in response to anyone. Either way, he is supposed to be a professional.
Zeroing
Banned
I’ll give you a hint! Don’t bother. There’s a pattern here. Examples
Tossing money at big publishers and devs to be on the service - good
Making a showcase presentation of indies - bad
Taking out twitter from your console os - good
Dev disables twitter account - bad
Service with trials that could be a good thing for consumers - bad
And so on. It’s like we as a collective are asking to be screw over and over by these big corporations.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
nominedomine
Banned
I haven't trusted this dude since he tried to push the narrative that Gamepass makes people buy more games. I'll never believe this shit, doesn't make any sense to me, so he just came off as very untrustworthy pushing PR spins.
He got relevant by supposedly being a guy that would just put out numbers but turns out he is most likely a paid shill.
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Faithless83
Banned
schaft0620
Member
"Baked into the OS"
Gald to hear Sony is doing the work internally.
Gald to hear Sony is doing the work internally.
Tripolygon
Banned
A demo created by a developer or publisher is made specifically as an advertisement to entice consumers to try the game and possibly could lead to a sale. This requires some work on the developer's end and the majority of developers don't bother with this because regular video ads and gameplay videos, twitch streams serve that purpose.
This is a system-level game trial feature and a platform mandate that all games of certain criteria must provide 2hr trials and is used by Sony as a benefit for their subscribers.
Nothing is changing, developers still can provide demos just like they always had the ability to. As far as I'm aware nothing stops them from using this feature to provide a free trial outside of the PS+ sub. Sony did it from Sackboy and Death Stranding.
I am not a developer, I am a consumer and this benefits me. This does not even affect developers, it more concerns publishers and their relationship with Sony. No developer has to do any work to implement this.
There is no current platform that provides a free 2hr trial of all major games currently. If you subscribe to the service you get free trial just like EA offers 8hrs? of their games, if you sub to EA Play.
Zeroing
Banned
For me anything that is written on twitter, I immediately assume is an irrelevant opinion or marketing PR.
I think people should see it this way! Things would become more clearer.
The way social media works specially twitter is, the more dramatic, more traffic you will get! If you say something everyone agrees nobody would notice your account! That’s how twitter works, twitter is a bunch of histrionic people fighting for attention.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
That's just gamer entitlement. You aren't entitlement to get game trials or demos for free. Nobody is doing this on a system level on Planet Earth literally. So, why should Sony be forced or asked to just give free game trials to people? Or even do so at the $5 a month level?
If you don't like it, it's okay for you to not pay the $10 a month for the PS+ Premium tier. But to ask as if it's "owed" to us is insane! At the very very least the competition would have to offer the same thing for a low rate per month, before you can ask Sony to do the same.
Shmunter
Member
Should be a few api calls and the game is ready. The encouragement there will be $ to the publisher from the subs in that tier and opportunity to on sell the full game seamlessly with an in demo click through.
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Spitfire098
Member
A voice of reason, someone with a little clout that understands what all this means.
Tiago Rodrigues
Member
Since 2020 this has been Playstation:
Sony: "we will-"
Everyone: "YOU CAN'T DO THAT! I'M OUTRAGED! WHY! HOW! WHEN!!"
Sony: "we will-"
Everyone: "YOU CAN'T DO THAT! I'M OUTRAGED! WHY! HOW! WHEN!!"
Ass of Can Whooping
Gold Member
KungFucius
King Snowflake
The more I think of this the more I hate it. It is Sony requiring demos but using that to entice people into buying their service which is something that actually competes with publishers of games not on the service. I think demos are great and should be available to all potential customers because if they are on the fence, they are more likely to give you a couple of hours to try out your game then they are to plop down 70 bucks. It should be a win-win, but instead it is being kept behind a paywall.
GHG
Member
The feature is already there as evidenced by the existing trials on the store and through EA Play.
But please keep going.
Tiago Rodrigues
Member
Dude...EA Play already has trials on PS5. This isn't something new.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
EA Play trials are 10 hours long too.
nominedomine
Banned
But wasn't one of the reasons for the push for subscription that it was good for publisher? Can't have it both ways.
To me it was always obvious that in the long run it was bad for publishers and for games and only good to platform holders. Now Sony is about to use that power in their favor.
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GHG
Member
These threads make it abundantly clear who does and doesn't have hands on experience gaming on the platform. Why you would talk nonsense about something that is so easily debunked I will never know.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
There's a 28~ minute gap between his original tweet with the news and him saying this will receive pushback from publishers and the next tweets where he's sarcastically saying 'but please tell me how publishers work'. 28 minutes may as well be an eternity on twitter.
EA Play's trials are 10 hours long, and they're on the lower tier of their subscription service, and essentially bundled in 'free' with game pass ultimate, and their higher tier straight up gives full access to the game.
This (PS Now) trial feature is relegated to the highest tier of their sub service and the two lower tiers are shit out of luck.
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schaft0620
Member
EA creates the trials as part of their subs, I am not saying its something new, I am saying it takes labor.
The idea that there are like two of you in here that think this isn't going to take any labor blows my mind and I am done trying to convince you.
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ToadMan
Member
And Sony charges zero money for trials.
They’re forcing developers to implement a trial system but they aren’t limiting that to subscribers.
If anyone without premium subs cannot get the trial - that’s the publishers decision, not Sony.
But the pubs have no excuse - the system will be implemented because Sony insisted it is implemented.
Oh and streaming - lol. See you in 20 years.
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GHG
Member
That's not what is being discussed. Not at all.
Allow me to repost my video:
Show me where the timer is that EA created.
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DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Ass of Can Whooping
Gold Member
skit_data
Member
Seems developers will be minimally impacted by the sounds of it.
Yeah, if this is how it will work it won’t be a problem at all and it could be considered a pretty consumer friendly service.
Edit: It should be a part of PS+ Extra as well though, IMO.
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Topher
Gold Member
It could be an hour and it doesn't matter. He posted three tweets in those minutes and none of them were in response to a tweet from anyone else.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Y'all keep changing what the active discussion point is so frequently.
From what I can see the two main points are that 1/ the trials are locked behind the highest tier and the lower tiers get nothing and 2/ forced trials would probably piss off publishers.
For point 2, the comparison with EA Play is still a bit irrelevant as EA Play trials are EA's choice on their own published games, they're not making every publisher to do that.
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The one remedy for point 2 is that/if Sony is taking full ownership of creating 'trial' time gates on games and letting people download them and locking after the two hour is over, but that still leaves the other issue of this being locked behind the highest tier of their sub service. Value adding, yes, but they're basically locking demos behind a paywall no matter how anyone wants to paint it.
So ? The sarcastic reply is likely a response to people DM'ing him with stupid commentary. You don't write a reply like that without anything provoking it.
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mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
They don't cost money to who? The dev\publisher? Or the gamer?
dcmk7
Banned
Is anyone else super surprised that
DarkMage619
has a problem with it? Or is it just me?
DarkMage619
has a problem with it? Or is it just me?
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GHG
Member
You are aware that multiple threads of discussion can happen in a single thread right? Neither of those things you've decided to write paragraphs about are being discussed in either of the posts you previously quoted. If you want to discuss what you're writing about then find the appropriate posts and quote those.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
It makes you kinda question who is he really "working\speaking" for in this instance. Why is it that big major publishers push free betas so hard, yet they will be pissed about a 2 hour game trial? This whole fake outrage has me so confused today.
It's one of Sony's most gamer friendly things that they've come up with in the last 5 years and it's some of the "gamers" that are upset about it. Weird.....
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DeepEnigma
Gold Member
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
I mean rather than tell me off and ask me to reread a multiple page thread, a simple brief one line of what exactly you were saying would have been nicer
I don't think gamers are upset about the trial thing itself, in an ideal case every game on every platform should either have a free trial, or a trial window in which they can safely refund the game.
This being kept behind a pay wall is what seems to be the problem, or at least that's the way I'm reading it.
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