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Halo Has Not Met Financial Expectations - Brad Sams
- Thread starter Pelta88
- Start date
alabtrosMyster
Banned
It's fine it will get all that free Gamepass money!
Sosokrates
Report me if I continue to console war
It likely failed revenue targets especially regarding its MP. And they certainly could of done a better job showing it off to gamers and other visual improvements, more biomes , realtime G.i etc.
However the the single player is the most fun ive ever had with a halo game.
The open world nature of the game is the original halo vision in its best rendition yet.
I recently played some reach but going back to the large but liner levels is downgrade in my book.
Pelta88
Member
The problem I have with GP figures is that I'm not sure where the PR and actual data stops. Microsoft refuses even when asked in previous earnings calls to clarify the following.
1. Does the announced numbers include concurrent or anyone who has used the service since it's introduction
2. Does the numbers include all promo and £1/$1 and confectionary/food giveaways
Without clarification, GP's actual numbers could be a significant reason why Halo hasn't been able to recoup, even with "20 million" players.
Jim Ryan other Clone
Banned
Release good quality games and you will see money what is this fixation with gamepass... It's fucking AWESOME, you pay a sub and enjoy hundreds of games. Same as ps extra, because of extra i have the last couple months played Spiderman, Nioh, Demon souls. I have tried some shovel ware bullshit that i would never even think to buy.
BlackTron
Member
I play Infinite almost every day...and I've never spent a dollar on it.
My desire to play it pushed me to get an Xbox with Gamepass though, so it accomplished their mission of pulling me back into the ecosystem. The battle passes, cosmetics, whatever...all invisible to me.
I will say this, if they could have done it right, Halo is the one game I might actually have flirted with MTX on, but it's just been a hard no. I show up for the same reason I play old games, the core gameplay is there, and I'm into that.
My desire to play it pushed me to get an Xbox with Gamepass though, so it accomplished their mission of pulling me back into the ecosystem. The battle passes, cosmetics, whatever...all invisible to me.
I will say this, if they could have done it right, Halo is the one game I might actually have flirted with MTX on, but it's just been a hard no. I show up for the same reason I play old games, the core gameplay is there, and I'm into that.
Leyasu
Banned
No it doesn’t. If the game cost half a billion to make over 6 yrs then that works out to just over 80m a year or under 7m a month.
Gamepass subs probably paid for a nice chunk and the disappointment stems from the absolutely abysmal attempt at a live service game. No doubt 343 talked up potential earnings then failed to get anything out of the door.
Kenneth Haight
Gold Member
That would involve Phil Spencer telling the truth.
DaGwaphics
Member
It's still in the top 20 most played games on Xbox in the US. If they can start getting more content going things could still click. Regarding monetization, it still being in the top 20 means there are probably quite a few GP subscribers still engaging with it, which is its own marker of success since it helps to keep subscribers subscribed. As far as microtransactions go, it's possible that 343 just didn't design the system as well as the competition and as a result players aren't as likely to spend money. I wouldn't use it as some broad indicator of GP.
MS knows what the numbers are regarding GP and with that information are spending $billions to feed the service more content. That should tell you everything you want to know about the indicators MS is looking at.
MS knows what the numbers are regarding GP and with that information are spending $billions to feed the service more content. That should tell you everything you want to know about the indicators MS is looking at.
Ghost of Caelid
Banned
Halo infinite is a great game bad service. The gunplay is only behind doom in terms of feel and fairly ahead of any of its current contemporaries. But when games are getting updates so often that halo gets only two a year that makes it look bad. Should have released as a traditional mp experience. Then sparce updates are more expected since the final package is more filled.
Chukhopops
Member
Here you go for 1, straight from MS SEC reporting:
I mean it was completely obvious from the beginning as an industry standard.
For 2. I would assume they are included since they are paid.
Gambit2483
Member
So basically management was too scared to just outright ask MS for a secondary post launch development team because they had already spent a huge amount of money, going over budget without much to show for.
So instead they (management) relied on contractors who would eventually leave knowing full well this is a LIVE service with indefinite ongoing development/updating/etc....?
Moral of the story don't use fucking contractors for a game you are supporting for YEARS...or if you do, make it a multi-year contract with options to hire
So instead they (management) relied on contractors who would eventually leave knowing full well this is a LIVE service with indefinite ongoing development/updating/etc....?
Moral of the story don't use fucking contractors for a game you are supporting for YEARS...or if you do, make it a multi-year contract with options to hire
Orbital2060
Member
It needs a big multiplayer like battle royale. Call it whatever you want. People just arent satisfied with the old skool maps anymore. There has been a sea change in the genre and also CoD need warzone now to be successful. People just dont care for running round small arena maps anymore. Its done.
DevilHunterX0
Member
Finish The Game, maybe?
Sometimes you need to let franchises rest for a while, Halo was one of those, just mediocre game after game over the past decade.
Go put Halo in deep freeze for a while, let everyone forget about the recent games and try bring it back at some point in the future with a clear vision.
Go put Halo in deep freeze for a while, let everyone forget about the recent games and try bring it back at some point in the future with a clear vision.
Hendrick's
If only my penis was as big as my GamerScore!
Well it's free to play and has little content, few players left, and nothing really worth spending money on. This is an obvious bit of news. Still think it can all be turned around though.
PharaoTutAnchAmun
Member
You dont play the games on GP for "free". All that worshipping of gamepass is getting ridiculous. The rest of your rant is an indication that you are fuming out of your ears with hate for Sony, please give it a rest.
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Wildebeest
Member
Developers need to stop thinking that being some sort of competitive gamer whisperer is the key to making a successful live service game. People want regular new fun content that is chill to explore and grind for a while. They do not all want to be replaying the same four super intense pro circuit pvp maps until they die from red bull overdose.
LeftThumbstick
Member
I think that's a bit of a simplistic reason. It's more to do with the fact that the game itself is shit, nothing more, nothing less. It's soulless, baron and empty and devoid of anything i would call "fun". It just doesn't feel like Halo. It may look similair to it and play kind of like the old ones, but it just isn't Halo as it was known.
It's too clean and refined, the maps are terrible and uninspired and the content itself is just piss poor. I mean, do these developers even play games or do they just "make" them? Or is it a case of management itself deciding what the game should be, aka a money grab. They've somehow managed to suck any feeling of achievement and earning out of the equation. All that cool armour you could once gain by playing and being good? It now only says you have money to spend. When i first played it for a week, it was fun at first because pew pew and winning games but what did i get out of it? Absolutely nothing. Oh wait, i got a left arm piece or some weird shit like that. Oh look, i have a slightly differenct colour visor now!
Any of the cool stuff that you would happily play towards? You buy it now. Not only that though, you can ONLY buy it at certain times. I get it, these companies need to make money because they spend a shitload making the game, but thats their choice and planning that caused that. There are lists of amazing games that have became huge financial successes just off the back of being FUN and creative. People will happily pay for something they enjoy at its core before DLC or cosmetics come into play. The problem with 343 and Xbox is that they assume the name of the game alone is what drives people to it, not the actual game itself.
In addition, the Gamepass route becomes a problem when the game itself is terrible. All you're doing is giving it away for free AND no one is buying the added content on top. Xbox used to be the home of multiplayer gaming (outside of PC) and it feels like they've just lost the ability to make a fun multiplayer game. They have all these studios and they're still in a IP drought. They are moving towards being a jack of all trades, masters of NONE.
prinz_valium
Member
The game is F2P. At least the part that was supposed to make money
TheDreadLord
Gold Member
The problem is far from being day one on GamePass. The true issue is that the studio responsible for the game wasn’t able to output updates in a quantity and frequency to hold people playing it and, therefore, spending money on cosmetics and other dlcs. The public just moved on and will hardly comeback since you have other big hitters coming soon.
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Pelta88
Member
The first part of your argument negates the insistence, from some, that the Halo is a success due to GP having X amount of subs.
Despite the latter part of your argument aka content/road map/updates being not just known but documented.
I think they need to split Halo into pure singleplayer games and an on-going F2P GaaS game that can be popular with the PC crowd if they want something on par with a Fortnite, Apex, Valorant, CSGO etc in popularity. The way MP shooters get popular these days with Twitch streaming, network effects from F2P and such is very different from the heydays of Halo 3.
Lognor
Banned
For sure it can be turned around. Forge will help, but 343 has got to do a better job of delivering content. By the time season 3 drops it will have been close to a year since season 2. Compare this to Fortnite which is getting updates every 2-3 months. A year is obviously unacceptable. I played through season 2 and maxed out my level. I guess there are events going on still, but I don't care about unlocking additional cosmetics. I don't even really care about the leveling, but it was something that got me to come back to the game. I have played so much of it that I'm a bit burned out, but I'll be back for season 3.
The Halo series already had a 6 year rest between Halo 5 and Infinite.
IntentionalPun
Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
Huh? lol
That's sort of ludicrous.. when someone announces sub numbers, they mean current subscribers.
LordBlodgett
Member
This game could only make money if the Multiplayer became successful. I actually think they had a chance, but they blew it by not getting constant fresh updates early on. It blows my mind how they just let it die on the vine like they did. I still have hope that they can turn it around, because core multiplayer game play is still awesome, and being free to play means a good update could always kickstart things. MCC did it, and Sea of thieves has done it repeatedly, so there is hope
Syphon Filter
Member
I think too much damage has been done to the ip for it to ever recover. 10 years of failure is too much, no ip that was important has ever sustained that much damage before.
Robb
Gold Member
No surprise there. Since launch they’ve managed to release 2(?) maps and some cosmetics, delay every new season for months, delay forge continuously, delay CoOp to then scrap CoOp completely etc. etc.
And that’s all on top of a game that was supposed to launch with the Series X/S, but got delayed an entire year in order to polish things up.
You have to wonder what the people working at 343i are actually doing. Cause it definitely isn’t developing halo content from the looks of it.
And that’s all on top of a game that was supposed to launch with the Series X/S, but got delayed an entire year in order to polish things up.
You have to wonder what the people working at 343i are actually doing. Cause it definitely isn’t developing halo content from the looks of it.
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“easy to see why” yet you miss the mark by a wide margin
You’re seriously assuming financial expectations were set without MS knowing it was a GP game?
ChorizoPicozo
Member
Nothing? I bet it has something to do with it.
And would do to think was going to be the "X Factor" to guarantee the biggest influx of player base?
Free to play
And Game Pass.
Pedro Motta
Member
This is pure gold.Halo isn't going anywhere, and GP is a massive success. Sorry to break it to you, I know you really hoped for something else
I know you were also hoping for something else, but Halo Infinite is barebones, both SP and MP.
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I think you’ve completely misunderstood what I said.
F2P and Gamepass can’t possibly be the reason why the game would have missed financial projections because all projections would have been made with those in mind.
They’ll be struggling for MTX revenue because theyve failed to retain the bulk of players. Largely due to the terrible progression system, limited content and abysmal content rollout.
TheGodfather07
Member
Saw this coming a mile away. Ever since the botched reveal, I knew halo infinite was gonna have alot of problems. I think its time to put halo to sleep. It was extremely popular and a product of its time but that time has passed.
dem
Member
They need to find a way to relaunch the multiplayer at this point.
I still can't get over how bad the menu's/UI are.
Like fuck... you're Microsoft. How the hell does it takes like a 30 seconds for some content to show up in the menus? What fucking intern did they have in charge this?
Every time you boot up the game it just feels lifeless. And that fucking menu music isn't helping.
Multiplayer is supposed to be party... not a fucking funeral.
Charging for different colored generic armor is fucking embarrassing at this point. Look at fortnite you idiots. You can pay 10 bucks and get a battlepass that earns you crazy skins and emotes... and enough vbucks to buy the next battlepass.
Who the hell is dumb enough to drop money on basic bitch generic armor colors. Whos idea was this? Get fucking creative. It's like an accountant came up with their monetization scheme.
This game is infuriating.. because the core gameplay in multi is fucking awesome. Everything else about the game is dog shit.
I still can't get over how bad the menu's/UI are.
Like fuck... you're Microsoft. How the hell does it takes like a 30 seconds for some content to show up in the menus? What fucking intern did they have in charge this?
Every time you boot up the game it just feels lifeless. And that fucking menu music isn't helping.
Multiplayer is supposed to be party... not a fucking funeral.
Charging for different colored generic armor is fucking embarrassing at this point. Look at fortnite you idiots. You can pay 10 bucks and get a battlepass that earns you crazy skins and emotes... and enough vbucks to buy the next battlepass.
Who the hell is dumb enough to drop money on basic bitch generic armor colors. Whos idea was this? Get fucking creative. It's like an accountant came up with their monetization scheme.
This game is infuriating.. because the core gameplay in multi is fucking awesome. Everything else about the game is dog shit.
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bentanchorbolt
Banned
If Halo wasn't so bungled it would be amazing. Think about it. It was a top played Steam game and the campaign was given universal praise and GOTY awards from some places.
It's all the stuff post-launch that has turned off the fans. The promises not kept and not yet fulfilled, basic issues to online matchmaking, decisions to focus on less important aspects of the game before the more important aspects, etc.
Halo should have been a 9/10, a legit system seller and money printing machine, and it was for about 2 months --- and they didn't stay on top of it. Had 343i kept their eye on the ball on the fixes on track, this would not have been an issue.
It's all the stuff post-launch that has turned off the fans. The promises not kept and not yet fulfilled, basic issues to online matchmaking, decisions to focus on less important aspects of the game before the more important aspects, etc.
Halo should have been a 9/10, a legit system seller and money printing machine, and it was for about 2 months --- and they didn't stay on top of it. Had 343i kept their eye on the ball on the fixes on track, this would not have been an issue.
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MikeM
Member
No idea. I’m not MS nor do I have their internal numbers.
Margin wise, selling the game makes more than putting it on GP. Perhaps MS banked on more sales than GP usage? Maybe they banked on more cosmetic sales? Who knows. All we can do is speculate.
Wimbledon
Member
I'm trying to remember how many games have tried jumping into the same genre this shared world genre that Destiny is in and have succeeded. Because outside of Division I can't think of many (unless your counting MMOs then sure), and even then Division is nowhere near as successful as Destiny is.
So for them to try to jump in the same field as Destiny was insane, to begin with, no one asked for it, and yet they still jumped into something new that they weren't prepared for, and HAD A 10 YEAR PLAN FOR THIS.....really!?!?
So for them to try to jump in the same field as Destiny was insane, to begin with, no one asked for it, and yet they still jumped into something new that they weren't prepared for, and HAD A 10 YEAR PLAN FOR THIS.....really!?!?
Have you actually played it?
ChorizoPicozo
Member
Oh I see what you are saying. I am not saying they are the reason but definitely a a factor tho.
Fbh
Member
Not surprising.
I remember when they first announced the multiplayer would be F2P everyone, including most people here, thought it was going to be absolutely massive.
How couldn't it be? It's one of the most recognisable IP in gaming and it was going to be free.
Turns out there's more to making a successful service type game than just being free, and 343/MS probably overestimated the goodwill and patience people would give them just because they didn't pay for the game.
I remember when they first announced the multiplayer would be F2P everyone, including most people here, thought it was going to be absolutely massive.
How couldn't it be? It's one of the most recognisable IP in gaming and it was going to be free.
Turns out there's more to making a successful service type game than just being free, and 343/MS probably overestimated the goodwill and patience people would give them just because they didn't pay for the game.
Thirty7ven
Banned
Cmon you know that shit was just hype campaign, the game hasn’t stood the test of time at all and it came out not even a year ago.
I think an argument can be made both ways here (since MS doesn't release enough info to really know). Obviously, the final projections should have been based on GP and sales revenue, plus MtX. But those might have been adjusted projections to a game that was initially designed to only sell copies and dlc when the game was designed. Trying to fit the game already partially built into a different model could have messed up their plans (and by extension their revenue). For example, would Fortnite have made as much money as it had if every skin was essentially a variation of the same character? Another possibility is they budgeted the game as a GP offering with higher expectations as to GP revenue. The aborted Gold price hike, introductory offers, may have downsized the expected revenue at that time. This seems less likely to me than not having a good plan for getting people to want to spend on MtX though.
Depending on the full story, the game's monetary performance could have been adversely effected by either GP and/or F2P. But my guess is that this is just what sometimes happens when too many cooks are in the kitchen, and not all of them are good chefs. And as someone else said, it may just not be as popular of an IP as the older gamers would expect because of nostalgic memories of Halo 1 and 2. If Halo isn't cool anymore, it would be but one line item of a long list of things I like and my kids think is outdated.
Orbital2060
Member
The Halo brand is still awesome but someone has to make a game out it that resonates with a modern audience. Small arena maps are not going to cut it, things have changed for good since the late 90s.
At this point maybe make a platformer or a different kind of game than a shooter. A metroidvania kind of adventure game, or something. Subvert the genre but keep the brand.
At this point maybe make a platformer or a different kind of game than a shooter. A metroidvania kind of adventure game, or something. Subvert the genre but keep the brand.
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