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Microsoft / Activision Deal Approval Watch |OT| (MS/ABK close)

Do you believe the deal will be approved?


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  • Poll closed .
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That's rich, coming from someone who claimed that the acquisition of a publically traded company and private company is "the same".

When you're purchasing a publicly traded company, you do so through the CEO

When you're purchasing a private company, you do so through the CEO

What part of they own all the shares are you not grasping here? You cannot be independent when someone else owns you outright.
 
Sony will not be fine. They don't have money to compete.
They lost blizzard, almost all wrpgs. Almost all relevant shooters.

Ms will not stop there. Their next target 100% will be CDPR and Sony will have what in terms of wrpg? Larian?

Sony is fucked on the long term and their future is to become a publisher not a platform anymore.
Sony can't compete with MS in the money stakes, but they have good will and market relevance. If Sony gets enough exclusive content then people will buy their console to play those games.
On the other hand you don't need to buy an xbox or PC to play MS games. If you have a good internet connection you will be able to stream their games. You will definitely see more people having both consoles.
Content is king. If Sony has good content, people will come.
 

Rykan

Member
When you're purchasing a publicly traded company, you do so through the CEO

When you're purchasing a private company, you do so through the CEO

What part of they own all the shares are you not grasping here? You cannot be independent when someone else owns you outright.
What part of BUNGIE CAN SET TERMS AND CONDITIONS ON THE SALE OF THEIR SHARES THAT ARE LEGALLY BINDING BECAUSE IT IS A PRIVATE COMPANY AND NOT A PUBLICALLY TRADED COMPANY is difficult for you to grasp, Can?
 
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Sony will not be fine. They don't have money to compete.
They lost blizzard, almost all wrpgs. Almost all relevant shooters.

Ms will not stop there. Their next target 100% will be CDPR and Sony will have what in terms of wrpg? Larian?

Sony is fucked on the long term and their future is to become a publisher not a platform anymore.
why are people like this? i have seen several saying the same ignorant thing. is it just an emotional reaction or actually believe in what they are saying?
 
Seemed to be the only way to get through to you, considering this has been explained to you several times already. Maybe I need to add pictures to my post next times?

I'm aware you think the difference between a public and private is that you can set terms and conditions to purchase shares,

And i've already told you that's not what sets them apart and you need to stop pulling dumb shit out of your ass
 

Rykan

Member
I'm aware you think the difference between a public and private is that you can set terms and conditions to purchase shares,

And i've already told you that's not what sets them apart and you need to stop pulling dumb shit out of your ass
You have just officially confirmed that you have not even the slightest idea of what you're talking about. You don't even have a basic understanding of how any of this works and any further discussion with you is a complete waste of time.

Have fun.
 

poppabk

Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
I do believe that any contract signed in order to allow Sony ownership of Bungie legally binds them to allow Bungie to operate independent of Sony's desires.
I'm not sure such a thing is even possible. Sony owns Bungie outright - any contract between Sony and Bungie is a contract between Sony and Sony.
 
You have just officially confirmed that you have not even the slightest idea of what you're talking about. You don't even have a basic understanding of how any of this works and any further discussion with you is a complete waste of time.

Have fun.

Well, the bit you bolded was just a paraphrase of your own claim. Good to know you're aware you don't know what you're talking about though

Good chat.
 

HoofHearted

Member
Holy fuck, this thread has become infested with countless retards in the last 48 hours. Some of the worst takes I've seen thus far. I'm out for now.

Leaving Lebron James GIF
 

Rykan

Member
Well, the bit you bolded was just a paraphrase of your own claim. Good to know you're aware you don't know what you're talking about though

Good chat.
And your response was that it was wrong, which it isn't. But you wouldn't know that, because your knowledge about this subject is on the same level as a playground argument.
 

poppabk

Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
What part of BUNGIE CAN SET TERMS AND CONDITIONS ON THE SALE OF THEIR SHARES THAT ARE LEGALLY BINDING BECAUSE IT IS A PRIVATE COMPANY AND NOT A PUBLICALLY TRADED COMPANY is difficult for you to grasp, Can?
Ok a contract between who and who?
 

DopeyFish

Not bitter, just unsweetened
wtf

a company with a contract with themselves means the contract is pointless, if one were to exist... but it doesn't.
 

Yoboman

Member
Going to address this with point 3 because it's essentially the same thing. Bungie is private company. It is not a publically traded company like, say, AB is.
This means that Sony can't just barge in there and buy up their shares. Bungie can negotiate its own conditions for selling shares and one of those conditions is, considering Bungie's recent track record and the fact that Sony has publically and very specifically said that Bungie will operate as an independent developer/publisher, most likely that Bungie remains full control on how it operates and what/how/where it publishes its games. These conditions are legally binding.

That does not mean that Sony can't negotiate a deal with Bungie for exclusivity in the future. What it does mean is that Bungie will get the final say in it.

My initial response that started this discussion was to another poster that said he was surprised Sony didn't pull Destiny 2 from Xbox yet when, in actuality, they probably can't.
All a private company in Bungies case means is that shares are owned by employees rather than the public. Which is why Sony have an integrated retention plan where payments are deferred to employee shareholders
iZgoH6d.jpg


This means that these employee shareholders all voted to sell their shares, because Sony now owns 100% of the shares.



There is nobody but Sony within Bungie who has any voting power on decisions. Sony has left their management team in tact and allowed them decision making power on their own affairs, that is all that independence means.

There is no refunds in this scenario, there is no we changed our minds, there is no "you promised". Sony owns them, Sony does what they want.

But because they want Bungie to be a success, they will be hands off, and we know will treat it in that way because Sony builds good relationships with its developers, and they want Bungie to continue to operate in the way that's been successful for them

That said, the Bungie board also has a duty to act in the best interest of its shareholders. And it's shareholder is only Sony, who they are a subsidiary of, and Sony could easily sack the whole board and replace them if it wanted to be malicious
 

Lasha

Member
I don't think we're gonna see people be able to avoid the battle pass price just because they have gamepass. It will probably be both you have to pay for.

Or am I missing what ur saying?

Microsoft's goal is to maximize revenue. A battlepass is potentially a one time purchase since you can re-earn them. Microsoft could offer the battlepass and some form of points with a GPU subscription similar to how Fortnite offers a Crew subscription. The offer costs nothing for Microsoft while potentially getting COD players on the fence to sub and adding overall value to GPU.
 

Rykan

Member
This means that these employee shareholders all voted to sell their shares, because Sony now owns 100% of the shares.
And they can set conditions for them. Nothing you've posted changes the fact that a private company can absolutely set conditions that are legally binding.

Actually, the post above mine does a better job explaining what I meant than I have. Please refer to that one instead.
 
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wolffy71

Banned
Microsoft's goal is to maximize revenue. A battlepass is potentially a one time purchase since you can re-earn them. Microsoft could offer the battlepass and some form of points with a GPU subscription similar to how Fortnite offers a Crew subscription. The offer costs nothing for Microsoft while potentially getting COD players on the fence to sub and adding overall value to GPU.
You can't re-earn all battlepasses tho. Idk how WoW works but OW you have to pay each season.
 

Smoke6

Member
Microsoft's investment generates an immediate return. You're confusing return on investment with break even. Activision is a profitable company which owns many valuable IP. It's not like the 70 billion is gone. Microsoft could always repackage and sell Activision and get it's money back.
So why did activision want to be sold
 

feynoob

Member
What do you mean? They made $72 billion in net profit last year. They are immensely profitable.
What I mean is that they want to see a profit. They wont their money without a return.
If what you said was true, then MS wouldnt have had Xbox one fiasco, as they could have spent alot of money trying to fix that mistake.

They ended COD contract because of lack of money from Xbox division. MS would have saved that contract if they cared about wasting money.

MS needs to recoup their investment back.
 

Lasha

Member
You can't re-earn all battlepasses tho. Idk how WoW works but OW you have to pay each season.
Re-earn is the norm. Warzone uses the re-earn method along with most live service games. OW is one of the outliers because Blizzard creates FOMO by including characters. The exact implementation becomes irrelevant. Microsoft can include all characters if you are subscribed to GPU similar to how its partnership with Riot works.

So why did activision want to be sold

To allow shareholders to cash out with a good offer. Why is anything sold?
 

Yoboman

Member
And they can set conditions for them. Nothing you've posted changes the fact that a private company can absolutely set conditions that are legally binding.

Actually, the post above mine does a better job explaining what I meant than I have. Please refer to that one instead.
Legally binding to who? You're speculating on potential stipulations of an imaginary contract that nobody has seen outside Bungie and Sony

Even the post above agrees Sony can change the conditions of the agreement at any time. That's what 100% ownership gets you

Is Bungie being given free reign? Absolutely, they get to run Bungie as they see fit because that's what both they and Sony want right now. But they still operate as a subsidiary, that means reporting up to Jim Ryan on what they are doing.

Do I see Sony vetoing their decisions? No I don't that is very unlikely. But just as unlikely is Bungie disregarding Sony's plans as a non factor. A healthy Sony is now good business for Bungie.

But in 10 years if COD goes exclusive Bungie and Sony will 100% be talking about the future platforms of Bungie games and if Sony want it, they will incentivise Bungie's board whether it's through additional bonuses or other incentives. Them going down the path of overruling Bungie is very unlikely but still within their power to do so.
 

Rykan

Member
Legally binding to who? You're speculating on potential stipulations of an imaginary contract that nobody has seen outside Bungie and Sony

Even the post above agrees Sony can change the conditions of the agreement at any time. That's what 100% ownership gets you

Is Bungie being given free reign? Absolutely, they get to run Bungie as they see fit because that's what both they and Sony want right now. But they still operate as a subsidiary, that means reporting up to Jim Ryan on what they are doing.

Do I see Sony vetoing their decisions? No I don't that is very unlikely. But just as unlikely is Bungie disregarding Sony's plans as a non factor. A healthy Sony is now good business for Bungie.

But in 10 years if COD goes exclusive Bungie and Sony will 100% be talking about the future platforms of Bungie games and if Sony want it, they will incentivise Bungie's board whether it's through additional bonuses or other incentives. Them going down the path of overruling Bungie is very unlikely but still within their power to do so.
Whether they can change the conditions of the agreement depends entirely whether it's signed down in the contract.

. We don't know if Bungie got it written in as a legal agreement (in which, if push comes to shove, Bungie would have to buy themselves free again), or Sony just offered it as a gesture of goodwill (and say, 3 years from now, things are re-evaluated). This is the one thing we don’t know

If it actually is in a contract, then they can't just change the conditions of the agreement at any time.

I agree that they can incentivize Bungie by making exclusives, Sure. But that is very different from being in compete control over Bungie.

All of this is speculation as we don't have access to the contract. But considering the language used statements from both of them and taken Bungie's track record into account, it is more likely than not that there is a legal foundation for Bungie keeping full control over its decision making as an independent studio.
 

Yoboman

Member
Whether they can change the conditions of the agreement depends entirely whether it's signed down in the contract.



If it actually is in a contract, then they can't just change the conditions of the agreement at any time.

I agree that they can incentivize Bungie by making exclusives, Sure. But that is very different from being in compete control over Bungie.

All of this is speculation as we don't have access to the contract. But considering the language used statements from both of them and taken Bungie's track record into account, it is more likely than not that there is a legal foundation for Bungie keeping full control over its decision making as an independent studio.
You and the Reddit post you quoted are baselessly jumping to wild conclusions. There is nothing indicating this is anything beyond a standard parent-subsidiary relationship where Bungie is allowed to stay operating as they have been.

You do realise hands off parent subsidiary structures are extremely common right?

Conjecture that they have some sort of extremely unusual legal agreements that counteracts the parent company power is based on what exactly?
 
What I mean is that they want to see a profit. They wont their money without a return.
If what you said was true, then MS wouldnt have had Xbox one fiasco, as they could have spent alot of money trying to fix that mistake.

They ended COD contract because of lack of money from Xbox division. MS would have saved that contract if they cared about wasting money.

MS needs to recoup their investment back.
Counter point: They bought Bethesda and then instantly declared all Bethesda games will be Xbox exclusive.

That isn't the action of a company that cares about recouping investments or making profits or seeing returns on acquisition costs.
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
I said they had been hoodwinked by Sony and got shit wrong. They came out and admitted they got it wrong.
No floppy floppy on my end. 100% vindicated.
Retarded ass mental gymnastics.

It backfired on them. This whole thing backfired on them. Imagine Jim at the photocopier making copies of all the exclusive contract agreements they have made with third parties that he has to send to Phil after he got this news.
Go warrior, go!
 
why are people like this? i have seen several saying the same ignorant thing. is it just an emotional reaction or actually believe in what they are saying?
While some are being hyperbolic, I don’t think it’s unreasonable to assume this is setting a precedent for the industry where Sony can’t compete. What’s stopping MS from buying more publishers? At what point does MS control enough of the industry where Sony can’t sustain 1st party development and support their own console?

It may not the the likeliest scenario, but it’s definitely possible with the way the industry is progressing
 
Retarded ass mental gymnastics.


Go warrior, go!
Amazing retort.
I'm glad your first reply had the word Retarded in it, because it certainly was.
I'm not the one changing my mind about the CMA. The CMA changed their own minds.
I said they were wrong, then then came out and agreed with me that they were wrong.


Your second reply, it was a bit of a laugh at Jim Ryan's expense. Don't be so precious.
I don't hate Jim Ryan and Sony. I just think they have been hugely hypocritical with their submission and as such I think it's quite funny that it backfired on then.
 

DForce

NaughtyDog Defense Force
Official Press Release - September 18, 1997

"Sony Computer Entertainment America Signs Exclusive Deal with Eidos for Tomb Raider Franchise; Lara Croft Videogames to Be Exclusive to the PlayStation for Game Consoles"

https://core-design.com/article45.html

You guys need to stop using this as a reason why Sega failed. This is just embarrassing at this point.
 
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wolffy71

Banned
Re-earn is the norm. Warzone uses the re-earn method along with most live service games. OW is one of the outliers because Blizzard creates FOMO by including characters. The exact implementation becomes irrelevant. Microsoft can include all characters if you are subscribed to GPU similar to how its partnership with Riot works.



To allow shareholders to cash out with a good offer. Why is anything sold?

So of the three only WZ can be re-earned. MS could change OW as well. It will be interesting but I highly doubt the take something off the table that people are already paying for.

WZ will obviously stay in the re-earn category. But even with that it obviously basically prints money. So after all that I still say this deal isn't about Gamepass as much as it is to fund the xbox division.
 

Lasha

Member
So of the three only WZ can be re-earned. MS could change OW as well. It will be interesting but I highly doubt the take something off the table that people are already paying for.

WZ will obviously stay in the re-earn category. But even with that it obviously basically prints money. So after all that I still say this deal isn't about Gamepass as much as it is to fund the xbox division.

My original response was as to how free to play games can be used to MS advantage. Hardcore COD players on PS4/5 might subscribe to gamepass if it included a battlepass, point allowance, or similar benefits. That's greenfield revenue for Xbox that doesn't need to be shared. I have no idea what MS will do. I think benefits in F2P games are reasonable given it's existing partnerships.
 

modiz

Member
Great to see regulators do their job according to law and not some made-up fanboy nonsense about big tech.
We are currently at 7-0 in favor of Microsoft if all goes well and we can have more competition in the gaming market. MS won't care about FTC and the most important thing is that regulators finally came to their senses that they don't have to protect the market leader but have to care for the customers.
The only people mad at this are the ones who love their Sony console more than they love games.
 

reksveks

Member
Actually don’t think Tencent even has a the ability to bid, seeing how Chinese companies aren’t exactly view kindly right now. That engine isn’t something USA wouldn’t want in the hands of a chinese company. Sweeney would probably get getting substantial amount of shares of Sony entice him.
The security issues around Epic is much more reduced imo but it could be a potential issue. I still suspect Tencent to force the bid up.

Whoever goes after EPIC doesn't have to prevent the sale of their engine or block it from others, nor do they have to stop work on it, so I don't understand why that would be a problem if it were to happen?
Like ARM/Nvidia, there would be too much question marks imo about how much of the gaming development space is reliant on UE. There was stats from Epic about the percentage of next-gen games in development using UE, it was in the 50% range. I would need to dig that out. There definitely would be some strict behavioural remedies on that acquisition including restrictions on the licensing cost.

"Among game developers, 48% of announced next-generation console titles are powered by Unreal," Epic Games CEO Tim Sweeney said.

FIxed to be more accurate
 
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mansoor1980

Gold Member
Great to see regulators do their job according to law and not some made-up fanboy nonsense about big tech.
We are currently at 7-0 in favor of Microsoft if all goes well and we can have more competition in the gaming market. MS won't care about FTC and the most important thing is that regulators finally came to their senses that they don't have to protect the market leader but have to care for the customers.
The only people mad at this are the ones who love their Sony console more than they love games.
c
 

reksveks

Member
Exactly, so still ls a lessening of competition. but just not the "substantial" lessening any more - is what the current data model shows. Third parties invited to respond, and Cloud SLC still the same, meaning the deal needs structural remedies or cancelled still, no?
In theory yes the Cloud SLC still exists and need to be resolved, I am still not sure about the open licensing agreement that MS is offering to the regulators. MSFT has basically approved any BYOG that running Windows or willing to do the proton work to get it working.

I would like them to open it to PS Now as an option if/when Sony allows you to stream games that you own.
 
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Rykan

Member
You and the Reddit post you quoted are baselessly jumping to wild conclusions. There is nothing indicating this is anything beyond a standard parent-subsidiary relationship where Bungie is allowed to stay operating as they have been.

You do realise hands off parent subsidiary structures are extremely common right?

Conjecture that they have some sort of extremely unusual legal agreements that counteracts the parent company power is based on what exactly?
The reddit post is a summary of video made by a mergers and acquisitions legal lawyer who has made over 1k videos concerning legal topics in the video game industry. We're not jumping to "baseless wild conclusions"

There is nothing wild about it. The statements by both companies have been clear: Bungie will operate as a fully independent developer, Maintaining the ability to self-publish and reach players wherever they choose, and they will remain independent.

You're the one trying to argue that independent doesn't actually mean independent. There is no reason why they would announce not only Bungie's current project, but their next projects as multiplatform as well.
 
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DForce

NaughtyDog Defense Force
You mean Sega. It's even more embarrassing because the failed Sega Saturn had timed Tomb Raider exclusivity. Still failed to sell consoles.

fixed* lol

Yeah, Tomb Raider exclusive deal is the game that buried Sega to the ground.. I can't believe people are going with that narrative lol
 

modiz

Member
You mean Sega. It's even more embarrassing because the failed Sega Saturn had timed Tomb Raider exclusivity. Still failed to sell consoles.
This is of course not the whole truth and you know that so we have to file this under trolling.
For anyone who likes to know what Three didn't tell you:
yhJ3N1U.jpg
 

Three

Member
There was stats from Epic about the percentage of AAA games in development using UE, it was in the 70% range. I would need to dig that out. There definitely would be some strict behavioural remedies on that acquisition including restrictions on the licensing cost.
No doubt it would require concessions if somebody kicks up a fuss but I have a hard time believing that stat about AAA. AAA are the only ones that can afford to maintain their own engines so Epic is probably moving slightly into AA territory when coming up with that. AA I'm more likely to believe and anything lower is more likely to be Unity and mobile.

Keep in mind that even using only specific budget games Havok again went through fine for MS. It's used in pretty much every AAA game out there: Zelda BoTW, Assassins Creed, Rainbow Six, Battlefield, COD, Destiny, Demon's Souls remake, Death Stranding, Crash, Doom, Far Cry, Mortal Kombat, The Division, Animal Crossing, Luigi's Mansion, Wolfenstien, Borderlands, Monster Hunter, you name it it probably uses it. I'm not sure if they had any concessions with that acquisition.
 
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