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[POKEYCLYDE]

I don't know what is going to happen come July 18th. It would be wild if they closed despite the CMA, I've never really given much credence to that idea, but this acquisition has been full of twists, I just don't know.

What is clear though, that if this deal dies, we have an idea of what's next or what's possible. Something as big as Starfield's exclusivity isn't viewed as anti-competitive by Sony. Which kind of allows MOST ip/franchises under the sun the thumbs up on being acquired.

Thanks to this case, we know Sega and IO are targets. If this deal dies, I don't see why either of those targets would meet much scrutiny if any at all.

 

[jm89]

I wonder why the FTC didn't focus on the point that the injunction should be granted purely on the grounds that the actual acquisition is still being held up by the CMA and CAT appeal process, so granting it doesn't actually change any standing?

Probably saving it for Satya. They ask anyone else they will wriggle their way out if it by saying its above them.

If FTC don't bring it up I will laugh hard and they deserve to lose. That's the whole reason they wanted the injunction, as they feared ms would close over regulators

 

[Godot25]

I don't know what is going to happen come July 18th. It would be wild if they closed despite the CMA, I've never really given much credence to that idea, but this acquisition has been full of twists, I just don't know.

What is clear though, that if this deal dies, we have an idea of what's next or what's possible. Something as big as Starfield's exclusivity isn't viewed as anti-competitive by Sony. Which kind of allows MOST ip/franchises under the sun the thumbs up on being acquired.

Thanks to this case, we know Sega and IO are targets. If this deal dies, I don't see why either of those targets would meet much scrutiny if any at all.

tbh I think that smaller studios like IO are targets regardless if this deal goes through.
I think that if Microsoft would be satisfied with progress of Project Dragon/Fantasy (if they are still the publisher), they will make an offer for IO. Same for Avalanche with Contraband.

 

[Ar¢tos]

But you dont care about ABK so why do you care??

So you think it is positive for MS to be able to buy a huge publisher like ATK?
What's stopping them from going after EA and 2K after that?
Can't you really see the negative aspects of consolidation?
Seriously, forget about the games being exclusive or not, even assuming every single game of those publishers is multiplatform forever, you can't really see the long term negative aspects of this?

 

[bender]

And you only see the trees.

 

[T-Cake]

Purely from a selfish point of view as a PC gamer, I'd like to see it complete. Diablo IV + more games on Steam, the end of another launcher in battle.net.

 

[skit_data]

Despite all the info that has come out about this or that stuff + Bootys mail pretty much lays out what their end goal is I think the judge will side with Microsoft. Not because of her son or anything, but because it feels like FTC comes off as kinda toothless. They don't seem to have prepared enough, tbh.

 

[Calverz]

I loved crash team racing remake and the crash remakes. I have yet to try the spyro remakes. I buy cod every year and put in a significant amount of time into them. I played overwatch 1 but haven’t touched overwatch 2 as it looked more of the same. I enjoy Diablo. I have bought and played 3, 2 resurrected and 4.
I am very much looking forward to dining off their future titles on gamepass if the merger goes through. I couldn’t care less about PlayStation. They stopped being my platform of choice during ps2 era.

 

[Fabieter]

Purely from a selfish point of view as a PC gamer, I'd like to see it complete. Diablo IV + more games on Steam, the end of another launcher in battle.net.

Do you trust ms well enough to stay on steam forever?

 

[Godot25]

Do you trust ms well enough to stay on steam forever?

GabeN obviously believes MS since he refused 10-year contract with "I know that Microsoft will keep their promise"

 

[Black_Stride]

And you only see the trees.

 

[Heisenberg007]

Same. Only good thing ABK have put out in the last 15 years is THPS 1&2, Spyro/Crash remasters.

I think for me this comes down to the fact that I don’t want M$ to be able to spend $80b, absorbing massive losses with their current subscription strategy, with the primary motivator being starving Sony of hundreds of millions of dollars a year in revenue.

Yeah, I think I've only bought 2 games in the last 6-7 years: COD MW (2019) and Spyro Trilogy. Spyro was mostly for nostalgia and I wanted to see if I still liked COD, but nopped out of MW 2019 after ~20 hours. Never played it in years after that.

And while starving Sony, the only other direct competitor is gross AF, I think the negative repercussions on the overall industry is far bigger than that:

• If MS takes hold of these big IPs, they make it even more difficult than it already is for new entrants to join the market.
• Existing competitors will also have to minimize their operations, e.g., Stadia already bailed.
• This will further their subscription model, which I do not like. Rent games that we tell you to rent, you can't choose games, and you have no ownership. That's a horrible future.
• Xbox has yet to prove its ability to consistently ship high-quality AAA games. Them acquiring more AAA studios is as terrible as it gets. Not to mention their terrible studio management.
• Moreover, we have already seen how lowly Microsoft and even Xbox execs think of the Xbox division. They would trade for a mobile gaming today if they can. Who's stopping Microsoft from stopping retail releases (physical and digital) of these big IPs and games and simply lock them all in a Game Pass subscription? In that case, people may not subscribe to play a Redfall or a Hi-Fi Rush but will subscribe to play Call of Duty and Diablo and Elder Scrolls if Game Pass is the only way to access and play those games. That'll be terrible. That's why it is better to stop them now instead of regretting when that future inevitably comes.

 

[Ar¢tos]

I loved crash team racing remake and the crash remakes. I have yet to try the spyro remakes. I buy cod every year and put in a significant amount of time into them. I played overwatch 1 but haven’t touched overwatch 2 as it looked more of the same. I enjoy Diablo. I have bought and played 3, 2 resurrected and 4.
I am very much looking forward to dining off their future titles on gamepass if the merger goes through. I couldn’t care less about PlayStation. They stopped being my platform of choice during ps2 era.

The 1st and 2nd Spyro remakes are great!
The 3rd... well, it's a great remake, but it's a situation of the remake of a less good game being less good too.
It was much easier to get the platinum trophy of Spyro 3 than Spyro 1, but it was 3x more annoying.

 

[Poltz]

Purely from a selfish point of view as a PC gamer, I'd like to see it complete. Diablo IV + more games on Steam, the end of another launcher in battle.net.

Genuine question, why should Steam be everything on PC?

 

[Fabieter]

GabeN obviously believes MS since he refused 10-year contract with "I know that Microsoft will keep their promise"

Did you know that the main reason valve pushed for Linux OS was the fear of ms locking them out?

 

[Godot25]

Did you know that the main reason valve pushed for Linux OS was the fear of ms locking them out?

Well. I'm just repeating what Valve peeps told the media after Microsoft offered Valve COD contract for 10 years.
Basically. They don't need contract because they believe that if Phil Spencer say they will publish COD on Steam, they will do it even without contract and keep his words.

 

[Fabieter]

Well. I'm just repeating what Valve peeps told the media after Microsoft offered Valve COD contract for 10 years.
Basically. They don't need contract because they believe that if Phil Spencer say they will publish COD on Steam, they will do it even without contract and keep his words.

I will repeat me too "do you trust ms well enough to stay on steam forever?"

 

[Jigga117]

Yeah, I think I've only bought 2 games in the last 6-7 years: COD MW (2019) and Spyro Trilogy. Spyro was mostly for nostalgia and I wanted to see if I still liked COD, but nopped out of MW 2019 after ~20 hours. Never played it in years after that.

And while starving Sony, the only other direct competitor is gross AF, I think the negative repercussions on the overall industry is far bigger than that:

• If MS takes hold of these big IPs, they make it even more difficult than it already is for new entrants to join the market.
• Existing competitors will also have to minimize their operations, e.g., Stadia already bailed.
• This will further their subscription model, which I do not like. Rent games that we tell you to rent, you can't choose games, and you have no ownership. That's a horrible future.
• Xbox has yet to prove its ability to consistently ship high-quality AAA games. Them acquiring more AAA studios is as terrible as it gets. Not to mention their terrible studio management.
• Moreover, we have already seen how lowly Microsoft and even Xbox execs think of the Xbox division. They would trade for a mobile gaming today if they can. Who's stopping Microsoft from stopping retail releases (physical and digital) of these big IPs and games and simply lock them all in a Game Pass subscription? In that case, people may not subscribe to play a Redfall or a Hi-Fi Rush but will subscribe to play Call of Duty and Diablo and Elder Scrolls if Game Pass is the only way to access and play those games. That'll be terrible. That's why it is better to stop them now instead of regretting when that future inevitably comes.

You have never had ownership in the past you owned a plastic disc or cartridge that gave you license to play a game THEY own. I don’t know why this is your concern as of today when the model your describing in your last point about COD ONLY being available on Gamepass is simply not true since day one games on Gamepass you are able to buy the game. The game comes in disc or digital for purchase. You only own the license thru steam to play the game digital that has been going on for almost 20 years. Your pointing out these concerns ignoring that Sony has PlayStation now and there are countless other platforms that do the same thing. Netflix and other streaming services are no different than the services Ubisoft+ and Gamepass do so why are you not concerned about Ubisoft+ that has the same model? The only difference with MS is that they are both a console maker and publisher. They made deals with EA and Ubisoft+ is on Gamepass. It’s been a digital world for 20 years

 

[DJ12]

Do you trust ms well enough to stay on steam forever?

Didn't they already state under oath that they don't want to pay someone a percentage of their profits?

What makes you think they want to pay this to Valve long term when the PR bullshit ends if they successfully buy Activision?

 

[Elios83]

Interesting, so the judge has already acknowledged in some form there are anticompetitive risks.

Btw I totally missed yesterday (I was out of home and when I was back I preferred playing FFXVI). But I see the comments are always the same People pretending to be legal experts and deciding who was grilled based on their own bias.

 

[Varteras]

Interesting, so the judge has already acknowledged in some form there are anticompetitive risks.

Btw I totally missed yesterday (I was out of home and when I was back I preferred playing FFXVI). But I see the comments are always the same People pretending to be legal experts and deciding who was grilled based on their own bias.

Lawyer: Would you say you like sushi?

Witness: I've only had it once. It was alright, I suppose.

Lawyer: So, then you do, in fact, like it?

Witness: I guess in a loose way, yes?

Lawyer: No further questions.

Comments: BRO! LAWYER STRAIGHT ROASTED THEIR ASS!

Me:

 

[Astray]

Comments: BRO! LAWYER STRAIGHT ROASTED THEIR ASS!

You mean COOKED.

Apparently that's the discord word of the week now.

Honestly amazed that the judge is still working both cases. That is remarkable work ethic.

 

[jm89]

"IT IS SO ORDERED"

 

[PaintTinJr]

Interesting, so the judge has already acknowledged in some form there are anticompetitive risks.

Btw I totally missed yesterday (I was out of home and when I was back I preferred playing FFXVI). But I see the comments are always the same People pretending to be legal experts and deciding who was grilled based on their own bias.

Optically I could see this looking better in the US for the judge to grant the injunction for the FTC primarily on behalf of ongoing litigation in the Gamers' lawsuit, with the latter effectively killing the deal, so it was a victory for the people by the people - heavily aided by the FTC suit.

The order gives them 20 days to amend the suit if I'm not mistake, to keep it going, so logically she won't be ruling to deny the injunction before that, unless she deems the two cases mutually exclusive, which wouldn't make sense if she only received the FTC case because of the previous suits related to the same issue, although maybe with the ongoing litigation from her denial to dismiss all of the suit, Microsoft attempting to close the deal straight after an FTC suit decision would still be contempt of the Judge's authority until that 20 days lapsed or the gamers' lawsuit was decided.

 

[alphachino]

Personally I think the deal (if it goes through) should have some sort of stipulation enforced by the regulators along the lines of "if you don't properly make use of your existing studios (which would include ActiBliz by then) you're not acquiring any more studoios/publishers".

Reason I say that is because it just feels like Microsoft bought a bunch of developers, doesn't have all that much to show for it, and now wants to buy more. Also I don't see how acquiring ActiBliz would provide gamers with tangible benefits beyond their titles being on Game Pass. Specifically, I'm saying I don't see how Microsoft owning Activision Blizzard will lead to them making better games. It's not like ActiBliz can't fund their own games (same applies to Zenimax to be honest, I still don't understand what we gain from Microsoft buying them beyond their stuff going on Game Pass.

There won’t be more, or better games. Xbox wants to grow simply by taking games away from Sony. They want to starve Sony of third party support by just buying up the rest of the industry. Why would they spend spend any more money on creating new games when they already have bought all the legacy IP that people care about? At least that’s their PHILosophy it seems in all of this. What they are not realising though is that the rest of the industry will still rise up because game development is fundamentally a creative endeavour and MS haven’t got a single iota of creativity in their structure and all the talent eventually will bleed from them in far less time than is required to kill off Sony. I believe they’ve mis-calculated here in their belief that they can spend Sony out of business… but it’s certainly interesting to see them try.

 

[PaintTinJr]

There won’t be more, or better games. Xbox wants to grow simply by taking games away from Sony. They want to starve Sony of third party support by just buying up the rest of the industry. Why would they spend spend any more money on creating new games when they already have bought all the legacy IP that people care about? At least that’s their PHILosophy it seems in all of this. What they are not realising though is that the rest of the industry will still rise up because game development is fundamentally a creative endeavour and MS haven’t got a single iota of creativity in their structure and all the talent eventually will bleed from them in far less time than is required to kill off Sony. I believe they’ve mis-calculated here in their belief that they can spend Sony out of business… but it’s certainly interesting to see them try.

Completely, I could even see Nintendo and Sony bury the hatchet to combine their platforms and cloud offerings and rally the rest of japan devs/oubs, as a starting defence of creatives against Microsoft with ATVI, Zenimax and Minecraft.

 

[Elios83]

Optically I could see this looking better in the US for the judge to grant the injunction for the FTC primarily on behalf of ongoing litigation in the Gamers' lawsuit, with the latter effectively killing the deal, so it was a victory for the people by the people - heavily aided by the FTC suit.

The order gives them 20 days to amend the suit if I'm not mistake, to keep it going, so logically she won't be ruling to deny the injunction before that, unless she deems the two cases mutually exclusive, which wouldn't make sense if she only received the FTC case because of the previous suits related to the same issue, although maybe with the ongoing litigation from her denial to dismiss all of the suit, Microsoft attempting to close the deal straight after an FTC suit decision would still be contempt of the Judge's authority until that 20 days lapsed or the gamers' lawsuit was decided.

It's really unlikely Microsoft will be able to close before the July 18th deadline.
They need to deal with the CMA, if they have intentions to bypass the UK regulation in some way they will still need to amend their own contract and let the shareholders know and vote, the move is so risky and could have such negative consequences for their future relationship with regulators (and so on their future business) that is not something that can be done without approval from investors.
At that point the intention will become public, not to mention that doing so it would destroy their chances with their CAT appeal showing no respect for the institutions.
Also even if FTC is not granted the PI they can still appeal the decision and ask for the current temporary block in the US to be extended just to mess with the closure date.

These are all issues that need to be considered imo.

 

[alphachino]

Didn't they already state under oath that they don't want to pay someone a percentage of their profits?

What makes you think they want to pay this to Valve long term when the PR bullshit ends if they successfully buy Activision?

Or bullshit won’t end until Sony’s console business is dead and buried. Their charm offensive will thus continue until they’ve bought up at least 50% of the revenue of the industry. They said it themselves: their acquisition spree doesn’t end with ABK.

 

[Calverz]

It's really unlikely Microsoft will be able to close before the July 18th deadline.
They need to deal with the CMA, if they have intentions to bypass the UK regulation in some way they will still need to amend their own contract and let the shareholders know and vote, the move is so risky and could have such negative consequences for their future relationship with regulators (and so on their future business) that is not something that can be done without approval from investors.
At that point the intention will become public, not to mention that doing so it would destroy their chances with their CAT appeal showing no respect for the institutions.
Also even if FTC is not granted the PI they can still appeal the decision and ask for the current temporary block in the US to be extended just to mess with the closure date.

These are all issues that need to be considered imo.

What were you saying about people here acting like they are legal experts?

 

[Topher]

I loved crash team racing remake and the crash remakes. I have yet to try the spyro remakes. I buy cod every year and put in a significant amount of time into them. I played overwatch 1 but haven’t touched overwatch 2 as it looked more of the same. I enjoy Diablo. I have bought and played 3, 2 resurrected and 4.
I am very much looking forward to dining off their future titles on gamepass if the merger goes through. I couldn’t care less about PlayStation. They stopped being my platform of choice during ps2 era.

 

[T4keD0wN]

The argument is that judges are there to make a judgement, not know the subject matter, but I think that's really silly. How can you make a fair judgement on something you know nothing about?

I mean, id rather have a judgment from someone who knows nothing about it since it means they will be impartial, rather than judgement from someone who is on either of the platforms and has a skewed opinions. SMEs are there to consult and educate, in this case they are meant to educate the judge and allow her to make a clear judgement, which is why i didnt like the Lee guy, he didnt do a good enough job to protect his sides interests. Bailey didnt get into too much low level details yet, they have started with a wide high level overview and she specific answers for everything theyve asked (obviously she is at an advantage compared to lee who was mainly questioned by the judge and therefore couldnt be properly ready for everything).

 

[mrmustard]

When is the next epsiode of that show?

 

[FlyyGOD]

And 20 days for them to amend the suit.

Difficult to see how the judge would give the FTC less time than that to appeal and the restraining order remains in place until that time elapses.

That would take us past 18 July…

So we are going into extra time.

Bobby K - over to you

Microsoft will settle with those clowns just to get them outta the way.

 

[T-Cake]

Genuine question, why should Steam be everything on PC?

Because imo it does everything 10x better than every other launcher. The in-game overlay is now fantastic with the pinning option, cloud saves, easy management of game files, badges! (I like collecting them - shrug), community forums, easy screenshots. In short, to use an Apple phrase, everything just works.

And as someone mentioned above, Microsoft departing Steam now would be similar to how they talked about taking CoD away from PlayStation - it would do immense harm to their customer perception and gamers would be gathering at dusk with pitchforks.

 

[bitbydeath]

I don't know what is going to happen come July 18th. It would be wild if they closed despite the CMA, I've never really given much credence to that idea, but this acquisition has been full of twists, I just don't know.

What is clear though, that if this deal dies, we have an idea of what's next or what's possible. Something as big as Starfield's exclusivity isn't viewed as anti-competitive by Sony. Which kind of allows MOST ip/franchises under the sun the thumbs up on being acquired.

Thanks to this case, we know Sega and IO are targets. If this deal dies, I don't see why either of those targets would meet much scrutiny if any at all.

Imagine if MS pulled out of the UK. The UK become forced to make/use a Windows/Office alternative. Companies around the world linked with the UK become forced to switch over so that they’re all on the same system.

It might just be the change we need.

 

[Poltz]

Because imo it does everything 10x better than every other launcher. The in-game overlay is now fantastic with the pinning option, cloud saves, easy management of game files, badges! (I like collecting them - shrug), community forums, easy screenshots. In short, to use an Apple phrase, everything just works.

And as someone mentioned above, Microsoft departing Steam now would be similar to how they talked about taking CoD away from PlayStation - it would do immense harm to their customer perception and gamers would be gathering at dusk with pitchforks.

I feel like publishers have the right to put their own games on their own launcher if they wish, see Riot, ABK, Epic.

 

[Rossco EZ]

one of us needs to get into the zoom call and stream it

 

[RickMasters]

Trying to fill that void isn't equal to trying to release a AAA FPS with a single-player campaign and multiplayer EVERY YEAR.

The first step would be creating a successful and likely new IP FPS multiplayer game that they can then iterate on in sequels.

I think where COD gets away with it is that every year it’s a different setting and cast. The only returning character being captain price and co of the modern warfare games. I’m between them COD goes WW2, Vietnam era, the future etc.



I can’t think of another game that has a rotating cast and setting and time period like COD does. Love or hate it it’s a well oiled machine that I don’t think can can easily be reproduced.

 

[Black_Stride]

I know i might come off as a shill but Microsoft is my only hope.

Free Vicarious Visions and Radical Ent.

 

[ToadMan]

Microsoft will settle with those clowns just to get them outta the way.

Settle? The “gamers” want the deal blocked so I don’t see much room for negotiation there. Offering them money to drop the suit you mean?

That would open the way for any and everyone to generate law suits for cash.

I’ll start a case and hold out for a few billion if MS are planning to bribe us… who’s with me!?

 

[Bernoulli]

Did the gamers case have the same evidence as the FTC?
Did they use things like internal email from Spencer and all that?

 

[ToadMan]

I can’t think of another game that has a rotating cast and setting and time period like COD does. Love or hate it it’s a well oiled machine that I don’t think can can easily be reproduced.

It’s interesting that MS’s economics expert (at $1200 an hour I’d learn a thing or two about cash) claimed CoD isn’t a “unicorn”. In fact she made a joke that its a Noticorn! Boom-tish - she should double her hourly rate with that kind of schtick.

Yet as you rightly state, the list of AAA FPS’s with a yearly release cycle begins and ends with CoD.

But according to her the industry is teeming with such games. I feel so misinformed - I’m glad MS paid her so much to get the truth out there. Good guy Phil.

 

[GHG]

I know i might come off as a shill but Microsoft is my only hope.

Free Vicarious Visions and Radical Ent.

What, because Microsoft have been great at reviving old IP's and inspiring developers to greater heights right?

 

[ToadMan]

Did the gamers case have the same evidence as the FTC?
Did they use things like internal email from Spencer and all that?

No. And this was one of the arguing points.

MS wouldn’t give them access to data which hampered their ability to work the case. To be fair, MS didn’t want their sensitive corporate data given to a group with little incentive to keep that data confidential and didn’t trust their lawyers to adequately protect the data.

So instead they’ve been using “open source” and/or already redacted data and personal arguments of harm from the acquisition. Basically they went to court with about the same level of data as any of us here have. But evidently the judge wants more to keep going with it.

Just goes to show how litigious this can all get when a group of “gamer’s” can keep a suit going with little more than saying “I feel harmed by this outcome but I can’t define how”.

It may well be their suit that eats up the clock while the FTC case is dismissed at this rate

 

[Black_Stride]

What, because Microsoft have been great at reviving old IP's and inspiring developers to greater heights right?

I have more hope in MS letting Vicarious and Radical make their own games than ABK as it is.

ABK seems intent on folding good studios into becoming support studios.

Sue me like the FTC for having hope.

 

[Bernardougf]

I have more hope in MS letting Vicarious and Radical make their own games than ABK as it is.

ABK seems intent on folding good studios into becoming support studios.

Sue me like the FTC for having hope.

Maybe if someone else bought ABK or even better they just sold their studios separately... you cant hope at this moment for MS to do shit until a better management with a different mind set takes over .. unfortunately

 

[Drell]

Cool a random gaffer saying analyst and M&A journalist information is wrong. Wow you sure got me Zelda fan.

Cool another random MS workshipper banned

 

[Zheph]

I have more hope in MS letting Vicarious and Radical make their own games than ABK as it is.

ABK seems intent on folding good studios into becoming support studios.

Sue me like the FTC for having hope.

Call of Duty will still need those support studios regardless of who is in charge

 

[Varteras]

I know i might come off as a shill but Microsoft is my only hope.

Free Vicarious Visions and Radical Ent.

You might as well forget about both. Vicarious was folded into Blizzard. That group is now integrated into those teams. Radical has pretty much been dead for a decade. The last thing they were known to have worked on was support for Destiny after getting hit with massive layoffs.

 

[Bernardougf]

Call of Duty will still need those support studios regardless of who is in charge

Even more if MS is going to put all their GP successes hopes on COD .. as much as they like to pretend they wont