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Eurogamer: Sony's live service pivot "may not pay off the way Jim Ryan had once hoped", says industry insider
- Thread starter adamsapple
- Start date
Mibu no ookami
Member
Where is Scheier's article about the failed Zenimax purchase? Double the price and they closed on that March 21. It's barely been a year since the Bungie deal closed.
I think we're going to have to wait and see a) what Bungie comes out with next that is unrelated to Destiny and b) how Bungie's GaaS experience influences Sony's other GaaS projects. I'm convinced that is what played into Deviation Games being near shuttered and that project likely canceled and if that saved Sony 200 million dollars, that significantly helps pay for Bungie.
Represent.
Represent(ative) of bad opinions
Yeah. No fucking shit. I could have told them that from minute 1. Now cancel them all except for the one Bungie is making and make what you excel at. Stop chasing money and stupid ass trends. It will bite you in the ass.
Hire me.
Hire me.
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TGO
Hype Train conductor. Works harder than it steams.
2017
Uncharted: The Lost Legacy
Horizon Zero Dawn
MLB The Show 17
Nioh
Wipeout Omega Collection
Knack II
Gravity Rush 2
Everybody's Golf
2018
God of War
Shadow of the Colossus
Spider-Man
Detroit: Become Human
Astro Bot Rescue Mission
Firewall: Zero Hour
The Inpatient
Déraciné
MLB The Show 18
2019
Days Gone
Concrete Genie
Death Stranding
MediEvil
Dreams
MLB The Show 19
2020
Ghost of Tsushima
Marvel's Spider-Man: Miles Morales
The Last of Us Part II
MLB The Show 20
Demon Souls
Astro's Playroom
Destruction AllStars
2021
Returnal
MLB The Show 21
Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart
2022
God of War Ragnarök
Gran Turismo 7
Horizon Forbidden West
MLB The Show 22
The Last of Us PT1
2023
Horizon Call of the Mountain
Firewall Ultra
MLB The Show 23
Marvel's Spider-Man 2
2024
Wolverine?
Stellar Blade?
Helldivers 2
Convallaria?
MLB The Show 24
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killatopak
Member
I don’t like gaas games as much as the next guy but an industry insider isn't actually a credible source for these kinds of prediction. You know who else is an industry insider? Jim Ryan.
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DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
What games are there to talk about outside of spider man and wolverine?
ulantan
Member
And that's fair but at this current moment be it live service or single player I personally would rather them not announce shit that's 2 plus years away anymore no matter what it is.
HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
I go back to what I have said here countless times when Ryan was given that promotion Phil and Ybarra shared a scotch in Phils office saying Ryan would run PS into the ground
THIS is his legacy
Edit - Oh and I know you have to count MLB The Show but have been playing that on Gamepass last two years
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Varteras
Gold Member
If just one of these games succeeds, the next thing we'll hear is, "Was Sony shortsighted to have not done this sooner"? Or if it's a Schreier article, "Sony's studios could have avoided crunch years ago had they made live service games sooner. Anonymous sources, who conveniently never wish to be named, tell me they begged Sony leadership for years to abandon their insistence on big, blockbuster, narrative driven games. A real shame".
TGO
Hype Train conductor. Works harder than it steams.
Yeah I don't personally count it but it's published by Playstation Studios
I go back to what I have said here countless times when Ryan was given that promotion Phil and Ybarra shared a scotch in Phils office saying Ryan would run PS into the ground
THIS is his legacy
Edit - Oh and I know you have to count MLB The Show but have been playing that on Gamepass last two years
Mibu no ookami
Member
Combined with their purchase of Bungie and their initial investment into GaaS games, I think a lot of games probably have been canceled or delayed. We were supposed to see 6 within FY23 and a total of 10 for FY24. These games are just as expensive if not more so than single-player games. So I think maybe you could see pressure to replace Jim Ryan for initial lack of progress and some disruption of traditional gaming.
Maybe if Naughty Dog isn't working on TLOU Factions, we see some results on their next game by now, but had Naughty Dog been able to deliver this game and deliver it on time, with the hoopla around the show, it probably would have been extremely successful. They've delayed the game and now it's probably better to wait until around Season 2's release to launch the game. The problem there is also the writer and actor strike, which likely would have pushed this back even further. It's possible we won't see a factions game until 2025, which would explain why the game has been largely benched to focus on other games.
Let's count out the games we know or can speculate on
1. Factions (delayed beyond the show's release)
2. MLB The Show
3. Gran Turismo 7 (we're just going to count this as live service)
4. Horizon Online
5. Fairgames (Haven Studio)
6. Likely cancelled Deviation game
7. Twisted Metal? (Delayed beyond the show's release, changed studios?)
8. Horizon MMORPG (different from Horizon Online)
9. Dreams (maybe the had planned a PC release and it was canceled)
10. Firewalk game
11. Firewall Ultra
12. Helldivers 2
13. Concord
14. Marathon
So maybe you remove Gt7 and Dreams
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
2023 has been pretty rough but looks like we might be in for an extra rough couple of years.
TGO
Hype Train conductor. Works harder than it steams.
You're just quoting Jim so it's not directly directed at you
Mibu no ookami
Member
diffusionx
Gold Member
Just in my opinion, FairGame$ looks horrible and a massive waste of money. That "Marathon" game looks like a waste of time. So I'm not a fan of what they are doing. That said, they seem to be monitoring how it goes and canceling/restructuring as needed. Like Factions 2 seems to be a total mess and in dev hell so they had to go back to the drawing board. We will see what happens. I think Sony's internal processes and management are far superior to Microsoft's so I would think that they see something in what they are investing in, but no way of knowing until it comes out.
In any case, it's the right strategy. Sony cannot rely on COD deals and 3rd parties like they used to.
In any case, it's the right strategy. Sony cannot rely on COD deals and 3rd parties like they used to.
TGO
Hype Train conductor. Works harder than it steams.
I honestly completely forgot about them and I also missed a few PSVR titles too from previous years.
I'll add Firewall Ultra & Horizon Call of the Mountain
Stellar Blade is a 24 game right, same with Helldiver 2?
Convallaria? I actually don't know what that is
Sony executive responds "What 2024 plans lol, enjoy your Seto Kaiba box" clink of wine glass
Mibu no ookami
Member
Exactly. And even if NONE of these games are successful, if it leads to a future successful game, that's still huge.
Imagine for example Sony gave up on Sucker Punch after Sly Cooper and InFamous and we never got Ghost of Tsushima.
If Epic Games never did anything more than Unreal/Unreal Tournament and Gears of War, they would never have made billions off of Unreal Engine and Fortnite...
You look at Guerrilla Games and if one game is a massive blockbuster because it uses Decima, it could easily pay for a game like Horizon Forbidden West.
Look at GTA1 and 2 compared to GTA3 and the success that followed. Same with Red Dead Revolver and Red Dead Redemption.
Game Freak made 7 games before Pokemon Red and Blue.
People have a weird way of looking at success. Hell Sony could have thought about closing Naughty Dog after Jak 3.
Imagine a world where Sony kept making Resistance games on an annual basis. The game was initially more popular than CoD on PlayStation. Imagine they kept making The Getaway and SOCOM. Also extremely popular games. SOCOM was just about the biggest online game for Sony when it first came out and while The Getaway wasn't the runaway success GTA was, it could have built into more. Look at Metal Gear Solid compared to Metal Gear and 2.
Success is often built out of failure.
TGO
Hype Train conductor. Works harder than it steams.
Or
"Sony's studios could have avoided crunch years ago had they not chased live service games and continued with what they was good at"
The next few years is gonna be ruff, and I can see crunch happening to get them back on track and could effect PS5 in the long run.
Mibu no ookami
Member
What I find interesting is what about FairGame$ made Sony say, we want to buy Haven Studios? How did FairGame$ pass a review but both Factions and the Deviation game supposedly failed?
Maybe the expectations and costs were just that much higher for both of those? And at least Haven allows them to hire FTEs in Canada.
Fake
Member
Can't wait for an article about this article about Bloomberg article.
Topher
Gold Member
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Mibu no ookami
Member
You're missing the point that consistent revenue from live service games means you don't have to rush the release of games, which means you don't need to crunch to meet deadlines, which means you can naturally polish games overtime.
Having success in the live service space, means better quality single player games with less crunch.
Yeah, there is risk involved in that, but the greater risk is staying the current course and never venturing into this space.
DrFigs
Member
how do these games look horrible? we haven't seen them. we got some cgi trailers and concept art for factions.
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Kokoloko85
Member
Rise of the Ronin. Death Stranding 2. I know they are only partly developed with Playstation studios.
Im not saying there has been many games announced, but there hasnt been any/much gaas games released yet from Playstation
Mibu no ookami
Member
It looks like absolute shit and the reception to the trailer on youtube is in line with that.
3.2K likes to 13K dislikes.... Totally possible that the actual game will be much better and there is some merit to the concept, but it looks rancid at the moment.
DrFigs
Member
is the marathon trailer significantly better than the fair games one? they're both cgi trailers, but the reaction to marathon is great. i think people are overly critical of the idea of playstation making a multiplayer game
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Mibu no ookami
Member
Probably not as cringe-inducing, but significantly more disappointing because Marathon could easily have been PlayStation's Halo.
James Sawyer Ford
Member
I think they should just give all GaaS to Bungie. That's what Bungie is good at. That's what they bought them for. Grow the team. Let them make multiple new IP (already going it). Don't force devs to work Live Service. It's ruining many good studios (Rocksteady being a premier case).
The good news with Jim Ryan leaving is that he was a money chaser that didn't really understand gaming. He just basically was a marketing guy. Maybe he was good at that in Europe. But he is not a good strategist when it comes to platforms.
The good news with Jim Ryan leaving is that he was a money chaser that didn't really understand gaming. He just basically was a marketing guy. Maybe he was good at that in Europe. But he is not a good strategist when it comes to platforms.
James Sawyer Ford
Member
Bungie is actually considering releasing SP games again, in support of their Live Service titles. So who knows, Destiny and/or Marathon could be Sony's Halo sometime in the future. There's no reason not to.
veterangamerUK
Member
Dragon's Lair for the modern era
Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
Jason Shrieir doesn't put anything of substance in this article. He knows how to farm clickbait though. He knows his readers want to believe...
Mibu no ookami
Member
Where did you see that? And pretty sure Marathon isn't going to be SP, which is a huge miss. Sony EASILY could put a shit ton of money into a new engine for a single-player exclusive game that has a GaaS multiplatform world built around it. The game could basically play exactly like Halo.
Loxus
Member
I have no idea why these guys hate live service games but still hop on and play them for hours.
Sony is just expanding to be the dominant gaming platform in everything, not just live service.
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Mibu no ookami
Member
I have no idea why these guys hate live service games but still hop on and play them for hours.
Sony is just expanding to be the dominant gaming platform in everything.
I honestly think to position themselves for the future, they really have to buy out T2, but I think they're nowhere to be found within a lot of genres...
You can see the moves they've made in the accessories space with Dual Sense Edge, PS Portal, and the purchase of Audeze.
Transmedia you've seen strides made as well. They've got to get much better at PC and Mobile though.
It's interesting to think of sony in its infancy here.
Loxus
Member
This guy keeps track of Sony games development.
Bungie has 4 games in development.
TGO
Hype Train conductor. Works harder than it steams.
You know TGO don't roll like that
Mibu no ookami
Member
This guy keeps track of Sony games development.
Bungie has 4 games in development.
I don't see any mention of single player here.
Magic Carpet
Member
In a year or 2 Neogaf will have tons of threads talking about where best to buy V bucks or Foam bucks, or whatever bucks.
Varteras
Gold Member
Yeah that comment made me roll my eyes. A studio they just finalized the purchase of a year ago would only have made such a sudden shift if they sacrificed a virgin to the Dark Lord. That assertion is even more bizarre considering that Schreier reported the situation involving Bungie telling Naughty Dog to rethink their multiplayer game. That was alongside the seeming cancellation of Deviation's game, the announcement of Marathon, and the purchase of Firewalk, who is also working on a live service game set to be released next year. Bungie is clearly stepping up to shape things. You're just not going to suddenly see the fruit of that in a mere 12 months after purchase.
Yep. Call of Duty just went into the hands of a competitor. There is ZERO guarantee that they won't eventually find other major live service games in the same situation. Seeing the state of the industry now and the direction it's going, it's foolish to expect Sony to just simply stay the course. The only way for Sony to truly protect itself and ensure they don't get cornered or left behind is to make sure they have their own offerings. They know damn well that live service is a crap shoot. So you just increase your odds of success by throwing in many attempts. Accuracy by volume.
I know people are hard on Marathon, but the thing is, there is really only one very successful extraction shooter out there. Escape from Tarkov. And that game is PC-only. If Marathon comes out and is a success, Sony will be the owner of the only big extraction shooter on the market that is on multiple platforms. So while I would have loved to see them make it Sony's Halo, I think it was at least a smart move to not make yet another battle royale shooter. Which is a saturated field.
You know TGO don't roll like that
I tried.
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RGB'D
Member
I think there is a realistic concern. Their own internal presentation showed that the plan was to drop traditional AAA funding to 45% by 2025 and raising live service funding to 55%. If the budget goes from 88% traditional funding 12% live service (2019 budget) to 55% live service, 45% traditional there is no way that they will be able to maintain single player release cadence. Especially in the setting of inflation/ballooning production costs. These numbers are all pulled from SONYs presentation to investors directly from their own charts.
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