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Time for Xbox to clean house and plan the next-generation console

Astray

Member
From a realistic standpoint, Microsoft should become a third party publisher because they will make a ton of money instead of losing money. I think, shutting down gamepass is also a step to the right way.
I don't necessarily disagree with this being the best course of action for a profit-seeking MS, but you have to understand that this choice will bring a complete bloodbath of studios.

There is simply no way for a 3P publisher to justify having as many studios as MS has rn.
 

Arcadialane

Member
They dont need to restart the generation. Hardware is not the problem. They just need to start making movie games that get 90+ Metacritics. It’s unfortunate because Microsoft is one of the few companies that support creativity and innovation with their games (Hifi Rush, Pentiment, etc etc)
thats-bait-fury-road.gif
 
Lol, no. Nobody would have bought an Xbox for Redfall, Halo Infinite, or Forza Motorsport. If anything, PC bolstered their numbers.
I mean not really. It’s why you buy a PlayStation or Nintendo. It wasn’t like they was putting there games on pc during Xbox 1 and Xbox 360 times.
 

Monkfish877

Member
They can still salvage this gen by putting out quality exclusives. Sony managed to do it during the ps3 era when they were struggling like MS (maybe not as bad). Games like Uncharted 2, God of war 3, Heavy rain, The last of us etc. pretty much kept Sony neck and neck with Xbox and probably saved them from a complete disaster. MS have a ton of studios, I think they really just need to release one big hit to change their fortunes. I really don't want Sony to have the hardcore enthusiast market all for themselves, you need competition to keep things healthy and for these companies to not become too anti consumer.
 

havoc00

Member
You are put in charge of xbox what do you do immediately?

fund more Japanese devs for Xbox exclusives
appoint Itagaki as head of Xbox Japan with complete freedom to appeal to that market by any means necessary
greenlight a new Banjo and Kazooie and put Rare to work on it immediately
throw money at as many timed exclusives as possible to pad out these huge gaps between 1st party releases
decree that Xbox games are no longer day 1 on PC, there will be at least a 1 year gap
fund Backwards Compatibility to the point that it covers every Xbox game ever made within reason licensing etc
 

Generic

Member
Yeah, no. You still have nintendo in consoles doing every bit as well as sony. Then there is the reality that steam is another equally competitive platform. Thinking sony would be the only one left standing means you think there are only two now.
Nintendo is its own ecosystem and Steam is PC. The Switch rarely gets multiplatform games due to its hardware.
 

Generic

Member
From a realistic standpoint, Microsoft should become a third party publisher because they will make a ton of money instead of losing money. I think, shutting down gamepass is also a step to the right way.
I don't see how shutting down Gamepass would archive anything aside of forcing millions of consumers to pay $70 on games.
 

kruis

Exposing the sinister cartel of retailers who allow companies to pay for advertising space.
I don't see how shutting down Gamepass would archive anything aside of forcing millions of consumers to pay $70 on games.

MS is a business, not a charity.
 

HeWhoWalks

Gold Member
You never know, Xbox could come back in a few years once the third party publishers they bought start to produce, perhaps they can target top people in the industry over as well.

Sony are enjoying a huge surge and have generally done well but they could make mistakes on GAAS. The single player studios could start to wane as key people retire or move on to other jobs. The industry can be cyclical and fickle, MS were a sure bet for many after 360 to clean up. Sony were supposed to clean up after PS2's enormous success.
The problem(s) with this theory?

A. The games they obtain through those acquisitions could fail without PlayStation (it is clear that Starfield suffered without it, for example). I'm willing to bet stuff like Elder Scrolls and Fallout will also suffer, just not to that degree because they at least have solid names behind them.

B. The single player stuff is highly unlikely. It would have to happen on an unprecedented scale and that makes no sense.

C. Microsoft needs far more support than just the regions they do well in. Nothing suggests they are trying to make any headroom, while Sony continues to expand their strengths to places like China and India.

As is always the case with Xbox, it's "wait and see". Unfortunately for them, the industry is tired of waiting and they already see what's what. It would take a monstrous change for them to ever overtake PlayStation because it simply is a far, Far, FAR bigger brand. Not even worth it to try and chase that. But, if they plan to remain in the hardware business, something's gotta give, because the declines they've seen are horrific and no amount of hopes and dreams can hide that.
 

Celcius

°Temp. member
There's no reason to own an Xbox anymore - all their games are on Steam. And they don't have any good exclusives anymore anyway so I don't even buy those.
I think that Phil has had his chance and now it's time for someone else to have a turn.
 

Astray

Member
You are put in charge of xbox what do you do immediately?

fund more Japanese devs for Xbox exclusives
appoint Itagaki as head of Xbox Japan with complete freedom to appeal to that market by any means necessary
greenlight a new Banjo and Kazooie and put Rare to work on it immediately
throw money at as many timed exclusives as possible to pad out these huge gaps between 1st party releases
decree that Xbox games are no longer day 1 on PC, there will be at least a 1 year gap
fund Backwards Compatibility to the point that it covers every Xbox game ever made within reason licensing etc
All of this is easier said than done, and isn't a guaranteed success in any way.
  • Why would existing Japanese devs want to make exclusives? It's been tried before to middling financial results in the XB360 era, Microsoft didn't gain enough share in JPN. Why would a Japanese dev choose to work with them and exclude Nintendo?
  • Itagaki is over the hill and difficult to work with, there's a reason he hasn't done anything of significance in over a decade now. If he had anything he would have been signed up by Capcom, Square etc.
  • Banjo and Kazooie might work, but having Rare of today work on it is basically the same as if any other dev did it, it would likely be done from scratch and has no guarantee of success, MS went down this path with Battletoads, another well-loved Rare IP to middling results.
  • Timed exclusives of major games won't happen if Microsoft doesn't gain console share, and so far they aren't.
  • Xbox games having a release gap with PC is probably the 1st suggestion that I see merit in, but this decision will have consequences.. They will lose a LOT of good will from PC gamers (who have by now have learned that companies will either port things or they will be emulatable, even if it takes 5-10 years), and they will have done so AFTER eroding their console share this gen, so basically they will walk out of this gen with zero good will, which matters in the next gen transition.
  • Backwards compatibility is not going to save the Xbox system, they already did most of the stuff people liked, so restoring the 50~60 metacritic tier of games would be wasted money and doing work that publishers should be doing if they cared about those IPs so much.
 

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
You joke, but he would likely do a better job.

He knew that gamepass was suicide for AAA day one. He admitted it in court in front of his next boss.

Employee culture would need a serious looking at, but he knows how to run a successful publisher.
Put the reins on him and he'd be better than Phil.
 

havoc00

Member
All of this is easier said than done, and isn't a guaranteed success in any way.
  • Why would existing Japanese devs want to make exclusives? It's been tried before to middling financial results in the XB360 era, Microsoft didn't gain enough share in JPN. Why would a Japanese dev choose to work with them and exclude Nintendo?
  • Itagaki is over the hill and difficult to work with, there's a reason he hasn't done anything of significance in over a decade now. If he had anything he would have been signed up by Capcom, Square etc.
  • Banjo and Kazooie might work, but having Rare of today work on it is basically the same as if any other dev did it, it would likely be done from scratch and has no guarantee of success, MS went down this path with Battletoads, another well-loved Rare IP to middling results.
  • Timed exclusives of major games won't happen if Microsoft doesn't gain console share, and so far they aren't.
  • Xbox games having a release gap with PC is probably the 1st suggestion that I see merit in, but this decision will have consequences.. They will lose a LOT of good will from PC gamers (who have by now have learned that companies will either port things or they will be emulatable, even if it takes 5-10 years), and they will have done so AFTER eroding their console share this gen, so basically they will walk out of this gen with zero good will, which matters in the next gen transition.
  • Backwards compatibility is not going to save the Xbox system, they already did most of the stuff people liked, so restoring the 50~60 metacritic tier of games would be wasted money and doing work that publishers should be doing if they cared about those IPs so much.
What would you do I’m just throwing shit at the wall because they aren’t in the best spot. And to the first question about why would they develop for Xbox $$$$
 
Got to admit, I bought a ton of games on steam and playstation store during this black friday sale. I know these games will be backwards compat for at least another 15 years.
I am hesitant in purchasing anything on series x because this seems like the end of the road. Dark days for the hardware.
 
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Astray

Member
What would you do I’m just throwing shit at the wall because they aren’t in the best spot. And to the first question about why would they develop for Xbox $$$$
Hard to make a decision on the larger issues like whether to just go 3P or not, it's easy to look at anecdotal or partial evidence, but we don't really have the full picture.

But if you ask me honestly? I think Microsoft needs to stop "listening" to fan forums or their cultivated insiders and podcasters etc, those people mean well for the brand of Xbox. But you never, EVER see a doctor asking a patient's family on how to proceed with the surgery, you never see a pilot ask the passengers on how best to land a plane..etc. So why does Phil and co always talk about listening to the fans, and even if they don't say it, their conferences and shows tend to feel like they are answering fan mail without saying they're answering fan mail ("we have Japanese games coming, "we will have games coming out at a faster clip", "we won't make the mistakes of the past"). It's genuinely mind boggling to me.

A fan can be passionate and even be an evangelist for the product, but they just can't see the ins and out of what's happening like a good exec does. If Sony's development schedule was up to the fans we'd be talking about Crash 7 or whatever instead of Ghosts of Tsushima, Nintendo doesn't vary as much in the IP, but it always, ALWAYS has a unique angle with each Zelda or Mario game.

Now, sometimes when you do this, you do dumb or bad shit, but more often than not, successful entertainment companies tend to surprise and delight, and you can't do that when you're just wishcasting from the fans. Even the good stuff from Xbox has become sorta expected by now. Buying COD or Skyrim won't change the equation much because everyone already knows what a COD or Skyrim would look like, they are EXTREMELY KNOWN QUANTITIES, you can't surprise consumers with things they know intimately well.
 

Topher

Gold Member
They dont need to restart the generation. Hardware is not the problem. They just need to start making movie games that get 90+ Metacritics. It’s unfortunate because Microsoft is one of the few companies that support creativity and innovation with their games (Hifi Rush, Pentiment, etc etc)

You can dog successful games if you want. Doesn't make them any less successful. Digging up ancient warrior arguments ain't going to change that.
 

Kokoloko85

Member
1 ”successful”l console out of 4. Spent over or close to 100billion+. Bought multiple successful and popular IP’s. Destroyed there most popular IP.
There best selling console is close numbers to PS’s worst selling console.

Maybe they should just quit the console market...

The Xbox 360 did well because of multiple reasons. Great online infrastructure in a time where no1 else done it, released a year before PS3, at a cheaper price, better 3rd party development and took a bunch of Playstation centric games for the first time like Tekken, DMC, Final Fantasy etc.

This isn’t happening again, it was a one off. And even with all that, it didn’t outsell PS3 which had huge issues like Price and 3rd party development issues.

Nothing is gonna help them, despite what fans online think. Not Halo or Gears, Not Phil Spencer, Not Backwards compatibility, not Gamepass, not Bethesda, not Activision. And its only gonna get worse, might as well not have them buy anymore publishers before they crash and burn
 

Mythoclast

Member
You can dog successful games if you want. Doesn't make them any less successful. Digging up ancient warrior arguments ain't going to change that.
Not digging any games, and I agree. There’s a reason they’re successful: the mass market likes them. The mass market doesn’t like a game like Pentiment. The fact that they’re successful doesn’t make them any less movie games.

Not saying movie games as a derogatory term. But don’t pretend they are not extremely cinematic open world adventure games: aka movie games.
 
Phil Spencer is the reason they are in this sad state in terms of console sales. His stupid decisions he has made have made the xbox console irrelevant to own. The results show just that. They can’t sell them enough to be competitive due to his failed vision for the brand. He is all in on subs and gamepass and has no desire or idea how to build a successful console base. He should have been sacked a while ago along with Booty and others who have made the xbox brand a joke. J. Allard, if he were still running Xbox, would have made a night and day difference with all the funding and studio acquisitions MS has setup for xbox to be successful. Allard believed in taking risks with new IP and also believed in growing the console base and expanding its game library with exciting IP to bring people in. Any new console or gen they start will be a total failure as long as Phil and Co. continue to peddle their BS gamepass play anywhere initiative. Time to sack the lot of them and start over with new open minded people.
 
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The irony is you listed GamePass as a good thing that he's done. I think it may be a good value but is having disastrously negative effects not just for the platform but gaming as a whole. Game quality going down as a result. They stopped caring about the Series X. Stopped optimizing games for Series X to take advantage of the hardware and completely forgot about backwards compatibility which was making great strides.

This gen has been a disaster for the hardcore Xbox gamer. Also, I despise Phil for pushing Crossplay on console gamers and for the blatant lies with games like Redfall. There should be a revolt among Xbox owners indeed.
 
What's the point of a console that has no identity or games exclusive to that and only that console? Xbox has all the disadvantages of a console and none of the advantages in my opinion.
 
The irony is you listed GamePass as a good thing that he's done. I think it may be a good value but is having disastrously negative effects not just for the platform but gaming as a whole. Game quality going down as a result. They stopped caring about the Series X. Stopped optimizing games for Series X to take advantage of the hardware and completely forgot about backwards compatibility which was making great strides.

This gen has been a disaster for the hardcore Xbox gamer. Also, I despise Phil for pushing Crossplay on console gamers and for the blatant lies with games like Redfall. There should be a revolt among Xbox owners indeed.

I’m a hardcore gamer who plays on his Series X more than anything else and this gen hasn’t felt like a disaster to me 🤷‍♂️

Also 2023 has been the best year in gaming in a long ass time. Not sure where this “quality of games going down” stuff comes from.

Eventually people need to realize not everyone prefers the same things they do. As long as Xbox sells enough to get the important third party games, that’s all that really matters. When Xbox has a Dreamcast type situation and has missed major third party games, then we’ll have a problem.
 

havoc00

Member
I’m a hardcore gamer who plays on his Series X more than anything else and this gen hasn’t felt like a disaster to me 🤷‍♂️

Also 2023 has been the best year in gaming in a long ass time. Not sure where this “quality of games going down” stuff comes from.

Eventually people need to realize not everyone prefers the same things they do. As long as Xbox sells enough to get the important third party games, that’s all that really matters. When Xbox has a Dreamcast type situation and has missed major third party games, then we’ll have a problem.

I have both systems and play my series x more, I really dont see what sony has to offer this gen thats insane if you didnt have a ps4. I think this gen in general is pretty lackluster. Maybe by like 2025 both systems will shine.
 

James Sawyer Ford

Gold Member
I have both systems and play my series x more, I really dont see what sony has to offer this gen thats insane if you didnt have a ps4.

Doesn’t need anything insane, just needs a steady stream of great games which Sony knows how to do well and Microsoft doesn’t.

To your average person, who only owns a single console, there’s zero reason to pick up an Xbox

That’s why ps5 is wildly popular. It’s simply good enough and even if MS started releasing more games they’d have to be a steady stream of system sellers to move the needle and arguably MS hadn’t released a single major system seller yet on their system
 
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havoc00

Member
Doesn’t need anything insane, just needs a steady stream of great games which Sony knows how to do well and Microsoft doesn’t.

To your average person, who only owns a single console, there’s zero reason to pick up an Xbox

That’s why ps5 is wildly popular. It’s simply good enough and even if MS started releasing more games they’d have to be a steady stream of system sellers to move the needle and arguably MS hadn’t released a single major system seller yet on their system
If I had a ps4 and could only get one system this gen id prob pick xbox, gamepass has a lot of stuff to offer and seems like it would be more enticing to the average gamer day one games, mlb the show mp exclusive games that you can play for years, halo infinite, master cheif collection etc... Somehow this didnt translate and ms is getting stomped.
 

yurinka

Member
I think instead of planning their next gen console they should plan a change of leadership, firing people like Phil, Matt Booty, Sarah Bond, Aaron Greenberg and Pete Hines, stopping the "day one on GP" idea for AAA games, to transition to a full multiplatform 3rd party role leaving behind their own hardware, and to go back to focus on selling games instead of in their game sub, which should be something secondary.
 
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James Sawyer Ford

Gold Member
If I had a ps4 and could only get one system this gen id prob pick xbox, gamepass has a lot of stuff to offer and seems like it would be more enticing to the average gamer day one games

That’s where you’re wrong

To the average gamer it’s not. Your tastes aren’t aligned with most people

I like GamePass and all but it’s like icing on the cake rather than the cake itself

People buy consoles for Hogwarts, Elden ring, Spider-Man, etc. these aren’t the gamepass games.

Hard to sell just icing when people want the entire cake
 
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James Sawyer Ford

Gold Member
If you owned a ps4, what does the ps5 offer over the x at this point? What does ps plus do that beats gamepass again if you owned a ps5?

It offers better exclusive games and all the third party games available they want to play

GamePass does not offer them the games they truly want to play. Nobody is buying a ps5 for ps plus alone, and that’s how Sony wants it
 
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pasterpl

Member
Or go 3rd party publishing and get access to Playstation and Nintendo installbase.
Why. Neogaf keeps telling me that MS games are sh*t if any are released at all, neogaf tells me that Xbox has no games. So that move would be without any sense. Am I right neogaf? /s

OP most of the games they have announced for this gen have not released yet.
 

havoc00

Member
It offers better exclusive games and all the third party games available they want to play

GamePass does not offer them the games they truly want to play. Nobody is buying a ps5 for ps plus alone, and that’s how Sony wants it
I just dont get how these games for previous ps4 owners are omg must have a ps5 with ps plus and ps having weaker bc being like omg I need a ps5.

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Sweden85

Member
Xbox is dead in Europe after them marketing us tier 2 and tier 3 countries. They f***ed up big time, and the games they are developing isn't as good as the other 2.
 
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