cicero
Member
I hope he got this new video of hers in time so he could crush this one as well.
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Tropes Vs. Women Episode 2 - Damsels In Distress Part [spoiler warning]
- Thread starter Mesoian
- Start date
- Status
I think the DDN ending is in Anita's video just because it made a great case in the debunking video.
The best video responses to Anita's entire production is this two videos episode. It's amazing because he destroys anythig Anita has to say several months before TvsM videos were published and predicts her action soutlines perfectly.
Do not miss this is you are interested in anything Anita has to say:
Video1
Video2
Byronic Hero
Member
Haha, the facepalm was so choreographed, she might as well have said the actual word before performing the action.
Why would you spoiler the list of games being spoiled? Now I don't know what's being spoiled! AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
TheBaronOfNA
Banned
Eh... or you can check twitter...
spandexmonkey
Banned
Perhaps I've missed it during the violence and games debates, did they in fact prove that violence in gaming desensitizes us to real world violence? If so could you link the relevant studies? I only ever saw the increased aggression ones.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
The exact quote is:"Now I take from you". He talks about how Jackie stole his "trust" and "respect" and now is taking his "love", love as a concept, not as a person. The love that keep him save from his own darkness.
In any way the narrative shows Jenny as Jackie's posession. Is something that is shown throught the game and in the way Jackie talks about Jenny.
It's sad that this is literally true.
DragonSworne
Banned
or MAYBE the robot wouldn't have died and survived the fall.
It's just shows how smart AND strong the woman is at the end of the scene.
Nice try.
polyh3dron
Banned
I assure you she'll give you some rationalization why it doesn't count.
Louis Cypher
Banned
All these Anita vids are so hilarious
It's great entertainment
It's great entertainment
And he had to apologize for it, because he knew it was stupid, and that people would probably get mad.
There's always room for T'n'A. But CONTEXT is important.
A Link to the Past
Banned
You're discussing habits and clothing of an adult. We're discussing a complete personality switch occurring in a 12-year-old girl. It is unrealistic that simply realizing you are a princess, at that age, especially when your life and memories has been rough and tumble, would make you no longer have the personality that you've had for a great deal of your life.
Try to address my points.
I didn't think her points about games were too bad, but it's a 25 minute video and there wasn't room to say exactly what sources her stats on violence came from? It would have taken seconds and added a lot more credibility to something I thought was fairly well done.
If the central point of a video is that 'this normalises violence against women, in the real world men think women are asking for it' it would be good to back that up or at least not jump between framing it as a global problem one sentence and a US problem the next, it just makes her argument sound poorly thought through and aimed at an audience that would unquestioningly lap it up despite their being shitloads of easily findable resources that would back it up. If your argument is a local one, use local stats, if its a global one, use global stats, don't vaguely mix the two while talking about what some anonymous researchers from one country found and expect it to sound convincing. If the study is good enough to base an argument on, it's good enough (and polite) to give the source. Maybe it's assumed knowledge that her intended audience know what studies she's referring too or something.
I also think it would have been worth exploring the point that perhaps it's not really about treatment of women at all, but that lots of AAA games use ever-more-extreme violence towards men and women as their primary problem-solving mechanic full stop. It gives an easy win/loss scenario, health allows for degrees of loss, and conflict breeds drama. It's just a shame we aren't really moved past the kill-or-be-killed stage of conflict resolution that appeals to teenagers.
It also feeds back to her first video about lack of female characters, and how its linked. Male leads usually mean vulnerable female dependents, (a large majority of male gamers would presumably count a female (or want to) as their significant other) and vice versa. More female leads would mean less damsels in distress as a plot device due to vulnerable male dependents, I would have thought. Game plots (and action heroes/heroines in general) have a problem in that you need to be have to threaten them without removing their agency to act, so that's why dependents get threatened off screen a lot instead.
Visualante2
Member
Oh, to be honest I wasn't paying much attention towards the end but I guess that undermines the whole other 9/10ths of the game...
Eep I'm complete in over my head here. Sorry
Yeah this is actually the main thing that brought it up to me. Because she was talking about how in the final moments the character is so passive but in some of the dungeons you are actually using her. Which reminds me of in Uncharted when the girls are quite active and intelligent in how they act. I mean if anything it can come off as a bit condescending the dissonance between the power fantasy while the cute girl sits around and waits for me to work it out.
DragonSworne
Banned
You might get Content Match and a ding against your profile.
Go for it, I'm trying to do the same now.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
She's is crucial in the final fight against Ganon. But let's ignore it, just like Anito does her arguments.
BTW there are more games spoiled than just the games listed in the OP. Be warned. Games like Onimusha, Devil May Cry 4, Max Payne 3, Asura's Wrath, Prototype 2, Dishonored were also spoiled. Someone should do a more comprehensive list than the one she listed herself.
Sorry didn't realize that people were interested in playing those games. I must have posted in the wrong forum, I thought this was the Gaming Age Forum.
Try to address mine. They are exactly the same.
You don't think Aragorn acts more passive, and regal in the ending of RotK when he's crowned? It's a total personality shift. For most of the trilogy he specifically avoids being king.
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
I'm sure this has been brought up but are there games she believes are not sexist? Do they exist?
TheBaronOfNA
Banned
Except isa very superficial analysis of various video game plots... that also ignores contexts between games.
JustProgress
Member
Still can't believe this garbage got funded, much less made $150k.
spandexmonkey
Banned
At best I could see that the use of victimized women is WAY overused, but I don't think she was implying that dead male characters were worth less than women.
We can show by physics that the force of the punch barely adds to the force of the impact on the floor.
If the girl was smart she wouldn't have punched the robot like that she could have hurt her back.
Nice try.
I wasn't planning to put it on youtube or anything. It's in my dropbox so I can just make a public link for a little while until it's back.
I imagine they're getting ad revenue from these videos so I don't want to step on anyones toes.
That's a lot of examples. I never even heard of some of those so it was interesting. Sigh I think writers are just catering to their main audience and imo its just uncreative writing on their part but its no worse then movies in most cases. And the medium is still maturing. Women can symbolize a lot of great things too so hopefully she puts some positive examples in eventually.
I'm not talking about building up the world, just building up characters. There is a difference and giving other characters their own actual character wouldn't take away from the main character. It wouldn't have to be obtrusive, just establish Jenny as her own person outside of Jackie.
It's been a while, but I think Alan Wake does this.
Alan definitely thinks of Alice as 'his' but it's made clear that Alice has her own character outside of Alan. It's even implied that Alan made Alice his by writing the story that way. It added to Alan's character rather than took away that she has her own character.
1. Go on then, what else?
2. Fair point, but an alternative interpretation.
3. "By the way, it's pretty curious that you suggest a need for Ueda to explain why a strong female character can exist, as if every - or hell, ANY - video game featuring a strong lead female had to do anything of the sort."
Now, which hasn't? Sitting here, I can't think of any. Powersuit? Super-powers? Being a god? I can't think of any female characters being presented with comparable physical strength to a male, without exposition being needed.
(Also, I updated my post shortly after posting it to deal with the skirt issue).
Yorda is weak, not for "some reason", but to serve a narrative purpose.
Have you played JRPG's? Men, women, boys, girls, all of them have this weird attitude shift halfway through a game. Go through the most popular shonen, you see this all the time in Japan, with personality shifts.
A Link to the Past
Banned
I'm guessing you're trying to be funny with your post, at which point I say, "I agree!" I agree wholeheartedly because A. that's not 9/10ths, it happens in the middle of the game; and B. instead of establishing that Tetra was Tetra, and not Zelda (which they did eventually in Phantom Hourglass, one of the few qualities of that game), they made her change. It is so unrealistic and unbelievable.
Optimus Lime
(L3) + (R3) | Spartan rage activated
I'm amazed that nobody seems to be picking up on the fact that Anita's work is undergraduate-level, non-scholarly analysis. She doesn't draw on a single piece of literature, and while she may want to play the 'Oh, this is a space for the layman!' card, it seriously damages the integrity of her arguments.
This is all a storm in a teacup. What we have here is 25 minutes of 'But, here's what I think!', and her analysis consists of smugly talking over the top of game footage, declaring various things sexist based on little more than her opinion.
Perhaps the majority of the gaming community have no prior experience with research, or have never done a literature review, but - honestly? People are getting steamed up over content that would be laughed out of any serious journal, conference, or postgraduate department.
This is all a storm in a teacup. What we have here is 25 minutes of 'But, here's what I think!', and her analysis consists of smugly talking over the top of game footage, declaring various things sexist based on little more than her opinion.
Perhaps the majority of the gaming community have no prior experience with research, or have never done a literature review, but - honestly? People are getting steamed up over content that would be laughed out of any serious journal, conference, or postgraduate department.
I think she's gonna do that in her last video which will probably come out in 2014.
Zoe
Member
It's not just J-RPG's. Now that I think of it, that matches Ozma in the Oz series pretty well.
If I told you that, say, Final Fantasy 13 had a sexist ending, that would be spoiling too!
Crush, destroyed... some people feelings seem to be hurt.
It's mainly because, given the price tag on this analysis ($160,000), people have the expectation of something less personal, and more analytically orientated.
~Devil Trigger~
In favor of setting Muslim women on fire
or the limitations of video game storytelling, specially early games.
I find it funny how the whole point of this series is to generate a discussion about Tropes vs. Women in Video Games yet everything being done seems to work against the very notion of having any level of discussion at all.
First of all comments are disabled on Youtube which some will believe is a good thing but I see it as a blockade for direct responses to her videos. You can't submit reply videos, you can't point out holes in her logic, and you can't engage anyone through her Youtube channel. So your choice is to head to a forum like GAF where most will have the same outlook on the subject and no real discussion can be had.
Secondly she constantly glosses over certain issues while hinting that there is a far deeper issue that she could get so much more out of but won't because reasons. If you're going to open a discussion then go all out or don't bother. This isn't an attempt to explore ideas but rather a soap box for her to push her agenda.
Thirdly she doesn't approach the subject matter in a serious way. She never explores the deeper context behind games and story lines seeming to only glance through games looking for things that fit her purpose. This becomes apparent when you see games like Child of Eden being presented as a damsel in distress when the entire game is about fighting off a computer virus inside virtual space. Then you have points where she openly laughs at plots from games such as Bionic Commando.
So she can look down from her ivory tower and scoff but we aren't allowed to do the same? Interesting.
She also never talks about how these games are received by gamers and their overall success or lack there of. Again Bionic Commando wasn't a good game and it didn't perform well at retail but she's quick to use it as a shining example of gamers being all for the dis-empowerment of women in video games. Other titles such as God of War which is based around the Greek Gods, which were always heavy in tragedy, never have their origins explored or even remotely touched on.
Things really start to derail when she talks about the player having to kill the damsel and somehow misses the point that these are characters that are suffering. Prey is quite funny because during the video when Anita says that Tommy's girlfriend is begging for him to kill her you can clearly hear her say "Get away from me Tommy!" and "Don't shoot!" Anita though in the same breath says these characters are literally asking for it the entire time.
I don't know about you but if I was transforming into a monster or something like that I'd want someone to shoot me in the head to keep it from happening. Doesn't matter what sex you are I doubt anyone wants to be deformed and mutilated to any degree.
I think I'm done with this video series. Not only does Anita take forever and a fucking year to turn out these videos but they don't seem to have much thought put into them or very much research either. She constantly presents her side but never allows the other side to represent itself. Everything about this seems designed to stifle discussion leaving only her voice to be heard.
Also I think this is something that needs to be talked about but not by someone who has an agenda to push and isn't wiling to have a discussion with those of us who want to. Sure Youtube comments can be pretty bad at times but isn't that what this is about? Taking the good with the bad?
First of all comments are disabled on Youtube which some will believe is a good thing but I see it as a blockade for direct responses to her videos. You can't submit reply videos, you can't point out holes in her logic, and you can't engage anyone through her Youtube channel. So your choice is to head to a forum like GAF where most will have the same outlook on the subject and no real discussion can be had.
Secondly she constantly glosses over certain issues while hinting that there is a far deeper issue that she could get so much more out of but won't because reasons. If you're going to open a discussion then go all out or don't bother. This isn't an attempt to explore ideas but rather a soap box for her to push her agenda.
Thirdly she doesn't approach the subject matter in a serious way. She never explores the deeper context behind games and story lines seeming to only glance through games looking for things that fit her purpose. This becomes apparent when you see games like Child of Eden being presented as a damsel in distress when the entire game is about fighting off a computer virus inside virtual space. Then you have points where she openly laughs at plots from games such as Bionic Commando.
So she can look down from her ivory tower and scoff but we aren't allowed to do the same? Interesting.
She also never talks about how these games are received by gamers and their overall success or lack there of. Again Bionic Commando wasn't a good game and it didn't perform well at retail but she's quick to use it as a shining example of gamers being all for the dis-empowerment of women in video games. Other titles such as God of War which is based around the Greek Gods, which were always heavy in tragedy, never have their origins explored or even remotely touched on.
Things really start to derail when she talks about the player having to kill the damsel and somehow misses the point that these are characters that are suffering. Prey is quite funny because during the video when Anita says that Tommy's girlfriend is begging for him to kill her you can clearly hear her say "Get away from me Tommy!" and "Don't shoot!" Anita though in the same breath says these characters are literally asking for it the entire time.
I don't know about you but if I was transforming into a monster or something like that I'd want someone to shoot me in the head to keep it from happening. Doesn't matter what sex you are I doubt anyone wants to be deformed and mutilated to any degree.
I think I'm done with this video series. Not only does Anita take forever and a fucking year to turn out these videos but they don't seem to have much thought put into them or very much research either. She constantly presents her side but never allows the other side to represent itself. Everything about this seems designed to stifle discussion leaving only her voice to be heard.
Also I think this is something that needs to be talked about but not by someone who has an agenda to push and isn't wiling to have a discussion with those of us who want to. Sure Youtube comments can be pretty bad at times but isn't that what this is about? Taking the good with the bad?
Basketball
Member
Shes cutting deep, max payne 3 and darkness 2 were great games
On Max Payne games .....Its titled max payne for a reason the game is clearly going to be about max payne and HIS struggles.
I hope companies continue to make games however they want using whatever plot device they feel is necessary.
On Max Payne games .....Its titled max payne for a reason the game is clearly going to be about max payne and HIS struggles.
I hope companies continue to make games however they want using whatever plot device they feel is necessary.
partyphone
Banned
Stop turning spoilers into a fetish!
here we go again
she's not making anything for serious journals, conferences, or postgraduate departments
she's making a series of basic youtube videos
i'm not going to go around complaining that this video about the UK wouldn't stand up to rigorous scholarly review, because who gives a shit?
The differente is that 95% of the time it is a women and we live in a world where violence against women is common place because "she was asking for it".
Lets imagine people X is not a racist, but it would not be a little bit problematic if he does not employ ANY people of color in his company even if he receives lots of good curriculums ?
If we live in a racism free world nobody would think it was racism and would believe that all those curriculums were bad so there would not be a problem.
If he hired the good ones it would also not be a problem because he would treat everyone equaly
Unfortunately she continues to fail to address real life problems: discrimination against women and minorities in the industry.
None of the shit you see on your TV when you insert a disc into your console matters if people are still discriminated against in REAL LIFE.
But whatevs.
None of the shit you see on your TV when you insert a disc into your console matters if people are still discriminated against in REAL LIFE.
But whatevs.
Cymbal Head
Banned
Wasn't actually aware of this. Will do.
But the thrill of avoiding spoilers gives me such a rush!!
- Status