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360 Price: The Industry Reacts

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Banned
There are few things that don't logically make sense to me that you're claiming DopeyFish:

-- How can you guarantee that developers and content creators will heavily support the HDD when you're conceding in the same breath that the core console may end up becoming the standard. How often do most developers support a feature well that only the minority are capable of using?

-- What does it matter if all the games are programmed in HD if the majority of people are still using the composite cables that MS gave them with the retard pack to connect their console to their tv? How is MS going to usher in the HD era if they're not encouraging people to use cables necessary for HD?

-- If MS is so confident in their vision of an HD era, where gamers are creating and downloading loads of content with each other and from developers, and everyone is using wireless controllers standard, then why are they hedging their bets with this other SKU. You know this retard SKU which a lot of us seem to agree is going to take over the market if the mainstream gamer has anything to say about it.

-- How are wireless controllers going to become the standard for Xbox 360 when it's so damn expensive for all the wireless options and the wired controller option is significantly cheaper and readily available?

-- Microsoft's concentration at their E3 presentation was on the services you get with Xbox 360. The biggest headline of that night was Robbie Bach announcing that the Xbox 360 would be backwards compatible with Xbox's top selling titles. The main focus of MS's E3 presentation was not look how gorgeous our Xbox 360 games look. That was Sony's E3 presentation. Pre rendererd clips do nothing for me either, I'm just talking about what the focus was for each company at these big industry events. At the Game Developer's Conference the main things MS talked about were the HD era and microtransactions through Xbox 360.


"They are staying true. HD era. wireless. (supported by every 360!) 5.1 sound. Live sexiness. and making the console more accessible and affordable for people who have been turned off by consoles from the industry becoming young male centric."

-- The games support it , but the core console doesn't support it. And if most people end up buying the core console like you said could happen it is not likely that most people will upgrade that console to take advantage of the advanced features that the games support. That's why I don't see MS following through with their vision. I think they have to work on getting the tools in people's hands and by pricing all the accessories so expensive it is not helping.


"it's $50 for a wireless controller. You use AA batteries from there. Yes there are other options like a battery pack, the wire which also is a charger for the battery pack. But baseline is $50 for a wireless controller. Wavebirds are $10 more than standard gamecube controllers and require AA batteries. This is no different."

-- I think you just proved my point with your own statement. "The wavebird wireless controller is $10 more than the standard Gamecube controllers." If the wavebird didn't become the standard Gamecube controller, then why would the Xbox 360 wireless controller become the standard? People are going to opt for the cheaper more reliable option that doesn't require them to constantly buy loads of batteries. If the core console becomes the defacto standard then the majority Xbox 360 owners will be using a wired controller because that's what it comes with.

Don't you see that if the core console/retard pack succeeds and overtakes the premium pack that MS's entire vision for next-gen gaming goes down the tubes?
 

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Banned
DopeyFish said:
honestly i think they have been.

they've always said the hard drive might not be standard for a long long time.

Dont trust xbox.com for a valuable source for information (remember Halo 2 online co-op?!)

never trust what anyone in microsoft says about xbox consoles that isn't part of the xbox division.
???

Halo 2 does have online co-op. I think they added the co-op feature with one of the updates. It's definitely in the menu list when I play Halo 2 online, though I haven't tried it since I beat the single player game a long time ago.

DopeyFish said:
At launch i'll be able to sit back with next-gen visuals, on my HDtv, sporting my 5.1 surround sound system, playing with my new wireless controller while streaming some crappy techno music from my computer as a custom soundtrack while talking some serious smack on xbox live while spectating a race between one retard and a slapjaw redneck while sending video recordings of me picking my nose to my now ex-girlfriend. I'd say my dreams have been fulfilled. ;p
That's great but you could already do all of that on Xbox 1 except you had to stream custom soundtracks from the HDD. The point I thought was to bring this to the masses, the retard pack which is more appealing to the masses seems to undermine that point.

Look I don't have a problem with trying to bring those features to everyone, my problem is if it's just going to be reserved once again for hardcore minority who are willing to pay the extra bucks for it then it isn't really that impressive anymore. We already had 720p games with Xbox and 5.1 surround sound and custom soundtracks, and downloadable content, and wireless controllers, and a video chat program. I would like to see this stuff become mainstream now. I thought that was the vision that MS had.
 

GhaleonEB

Member
DopeyFish said:
honestly i think they have been.

they've always said the hard drive might not be standard for a long long time.

Dont trust xbox.com for a valuable source for information (remember Halo 2 online co-op?!)

never trust what anyone in microsoft says about xbox consoles that isn't part of the xbox division.

With these things in mind, you can tell they've been quite truthful.

At launch i'll be able to sit back with next-gen visuals, on my HDtv, sporting my 5.1 surround sound system, playing with my new wireless controller while streaming some crappy techno music from my computer as a custom soundtrack while talking some serious smack on xbox live while spectating a race between one retard and a slapjaw redneck while sending video recordings of me picking my nose to my now ex-girlfriend. I'd say my dreams have been fulfilled. ;p

The XBox.com article is a reprint of a press release MS put out at E3. It was backed up by all the PR guys and interviews that the HDD was standard, wireless was standard, and Live Silver was free standard out of the box. It was a solid, consistant message and is what had me excited for the system after E3.

By offering the nerfed version up front MS is backing away of everything they promised at E3 and everything this generation was supposed to be about.
 

GhaleonEB

Member
---- said:
???

Halo 2 does have online co-op. I think they added the co-op feature with one of the updates. It's definitely in the menu list when I play Halo 2 online, though I haven't tried it since I beat the single player game a long time ago.

:lol :lol

Try playing it. That option has been there since day one - it takes you to the split screen option. It was never updated. The news of online co-op would rock the Halo community hard.
 

Blimblim

The Inside Track
---- said:
???

Halo 2 does have online co-op. I think they added the co-op feature with one of the updates. It's definitely in the menu list when I play Halo 2 online, though I haven't tried it since I beat the single player game a long time ago.
No.
 

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Banned
GhaleonEB said:
:lol :lol

Try playing it. That option has been there since day one - it takes you to the split screen option. It was never updated. The news of online co-op would rock the Halo community hard.
Oh wow. That's really lame. Why didn't Bungie at least remove it from the menu with one of the updates? :lol


And people like DopeyFish may think that they're all set and this retard pack isn't going to have any effect on them, but what's going to happen if the majority of Xbox 360 owners end up only having the 64MB memory card for storage? Are most developers going to make their downloadable content with your 20GB HDD in mind or are they going to make their downloadable content with the 64MB card in mind? I think they're going to focus on whatever the majority owns.
 

DopeyFish

Not bitter, just unsweetened
---- said:
There are few things that don't logically make sense to me that you're claiming DopeyFish:

Well, let's see!

#1 How can you guarantee that developers and content creators will heavily support the HDD when you're conceding in the same breath that the core console may end up becoming the standard. Since when do most developers support a feature well that only the minority are capable of using?

I've stood by the fact the hard drive was on thing the developers on Xbox rarely used. So I'm not sure what you're trying to say. The same amount of games for 360 will probably use the hard drive, that's about how small the number really was.

#2 What does it matter if all the games are programmed in HD if the majority of people are still using the composite cables that MS gave them to connect their console to their tv? How is MS going to usher in the HD era if they're not encouraging people to use cables necessary for HD?

On their SD sets? HDTV is an upcoming standard. Until that time it'd be a very stupid idea to pack in component cables. But by making the console an HD-centric console designed around HD resolutions, when the transition starts occuring in the next 1-2 years, it will be smooth. People will then buy the cables when necessary.

#3 If MS is so confident in their vision of an HD era, where gamers are creating and downloading loads of content with each other and from developers, and everyone is using wireless controllers standard, then why are they hedging their bets with this other SKU. You know this retard SKU which a lot of us seem to agree is going to take over the market if the mainstream gamer has anything to say about it.

last time i checked they were hedging their bets and promoting the premium sku. The core pack sku is the barebones "buy me if you're a cheapass and can't afford anything larger than a 22" SDTV screen" console. You'll also not see many of them at launch (you know... the time where people get first impressions!) and the contents will change over time if necessary as well. It's not a difficult concept to understand.

#4 How are wireless controllers going to become the standard for Xbox 360 when it's so damn expensive for all the wireless options and the wired controller option is significantly cheaper and readily available?

last time i checked $10 cheaper wasn't "significantly cheaper". wavebird was only $10 more. the options are just options. THEY ARE NOT REQUIRED. slap in some batteries right when you get it and hey! it works! like maaaaaagic ooohhh

#5 Microsoft's concentration at their E3 presentation was on the services you get with Xbox 360. The biggest headline of that night was Robbie Bach announcing that the Xbox 360 would be backwards compatible with Xbox's top selling titles. The main focus of MS's E3 presentation was not look how gorgeous our Xbox 360 games look. That was Sony's E3 presentation. Pre rendererd clips do nothing for me either, I'm just talking about what the focus was for each company at these big industry events. At the Game Developer's Conference the main things MS talked about were the HD era and microtransactions through Xbox 360.

Microsoft believes in 3 key areas for success. Software, services and hardware. The biggest headline for you that night was backwards compatibility. For me it was seeing PGR3. Seeing how awesome the gui was. Square-Enix making games for 360. But it doesn't really matter in the end. X05 is the games show for Xbox 360. Not E3. The system, nor the software was ready for a full debut at that point.

"They are staying true. HD era. wireless. (supported by every 360!) 5.1 sound. Live sexiness. and making the console more accessible and affordable for people who have been turned off by consoles from the industry becoming young male centric."

#6 The games support it , but the core console doesn't support it. And if most people end up buying the core console like you said could happen it is not likely that most people will upgrade that console to take advantage of the advanced features that the games support. That's why I don't see MS following through with their vision. I think they have to work on getting the tools in people's hands and by pricing all the accessories so expensive it is not helping.

*slams head on keyboard* People won't even care or bother with those accessories. They will put their game in, and it will work. The hard drive is there so somebody who feels like taking the plunge for it won't have to buy another 360 just to get it. The core pack is an off-shoot of the main line of 360 so people can enjoy it without spending more money on useless things that don't fit their lifestyle. You keep thinking the gaming community is and always remain just one type of customer and you're flat out wrong.


"it's $50 for a wireless controller. You use AA batteries from there. Yes there are other options like a battery pack, the wire which also is a charger for the battery pack. But baseline is $50 for a wireless controller. Wavebirds are $10 more than standard gamecube controllers and require AA batteries. This is no different."

#7 I think you just proved my point with your own statement. "The wavebird wireless controller is $10 more than the standard Gamecube controllers." If the wavebird didn't become the standard Gamecube controller, then why would the Xbox 360 wireless controller become the standard? People are going to opt for the cheaper more reliable option that doesn't require them to constantly buy loads of batteries. If the core console becomes the defacto standard then the majority Xbox 360 owners will be using a wired controller because that's what it comes with.

the Xbox 360 MAIN SKU comes with a wireless controller. the off-shoot comes with a wired controller.

Both the main sku and the core sku have support for both wired and wireless controllers out of the box. [and considering there's going to be more quantities of the main sku on the market than the core sku, it makes it far more of a standard than the wired controller.]

therefore it's standard. do you honestly think you'll care if no one buys wireless controllers? You'll buy em. you'll use em. i won't care. I'll buy my wired controllers with glee and gauff at you and your strive for wire-free fun. It's a choice the consumer will have to make.

Don't you see that if the core console/retard pack succeeds and overtakes the premium pack that MS's entire vision for next-gen gaming goes down the tubes?

No. Because on every xbox you can get an HD cable, you can get a wireless controller. You can buy your fucking faceplate. nothing has changed but the bundle contents. I don't really care what comes in the package as long as in the end it works on my stuff in 720p, 16:9, 5.1... with wireless. It doesn't change their vision at all. It's still an HD console. It doesn't matter if jim or joe consumer don't use it the way intended.
 

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Banned
Basically you keep falling back on the excuse that the retard pack SKU won't be the majority at launch. But as I've pointed at to you since when does what the early adopters buy at launch dictate what will become standard over the course of the system's life? Everyone had to buy the Duke controller at launch because that's what was available, but the majority chose the controller-S in the end. The controller-S became the standard even though it wasn't available at launch and the Duke was eventually phased out of the market.

Mass market and retailer demand is going to determine what the main SKU becomes over time. Just because MS is saying that the main SKU at launch is going to be the premium edition (which honestly seems more like a limited edition offering) doesn't mean that it's going to be the main SKU going forward.

I would like the average Joe to view the premium edition as the better choice, but I don't see how that's ever going to come to be.

DopeyFish said:
last time i checked they were hedging their bets and promoting the premium sku.
If they really believe in that premium console and all the features it offers then why don't they make it the only option and stick by it. Instead 2 months before launch they say "well maybe people don't want all the stuff we've been hyping up, so here's a cheap barebones edition instead." You know just in case nobody actually cares about the HDTV output and the downloadable content and backwards compatibility and wireless controllers. It just doesn't seem like a very confident move to me.
The core pack sku is the barebones "buy me if you're a cheapass and can't afford anything larger than a 22" SDTV screen" console.
Which is most people. So why won't most people overtime choose the cheap SKU when most people are the cheap SDTV people? At launch of course the early adopters will opt for the expensive premium. Expensive premium items usually don't become the standards overtime, they are only most popular at the initial offering.
last time i checked $10 cheaper wasn't "significantly cheaper". wavebird was only $10 more.
$10 is significantly cheaper to most people. Especially when you're talking about multiple controllers. Like you said the wavebird isn't the standard for Gamecube.
The biggest headline for you that night was backwards compatibility. For me it was seeing PGR3.
No the biggest headline that night for the media was backwards compatibility because everyone had speculated up to that point that the Xbox 360 was not going to have it. When the head honcho Robbie Bach announced it himself it grabbed all the headlines.
People won't even care or bother with those accessories. They will put their game in, and it will work. The hard drive is there so somebody who feels like taking the plunge for it won't have to buy another 360 just to get it.
I agree most people who buy the core pack won't even look twice at a lot of the accesories. They will just stick to the items that MS gave them. So how does this help realize MS's vision of an HD era and a thriving Live marketplace?
The core pack is an off-shoot of the main line of 360 so people can enjoy it without spending more money on useless things that don't fit their lifestyle.
Initially the core pack is the off-shoot, but not in the long run. How many people pay for "premium" gas instead of "regular?" The premium item is going to be treated by the mainstream like they treat any other more expensive premium item. They're going to shun it in favor of the cheaper regular item. I'm surprised I haven't heard anyone else make the gasoline comparison yet. It's basically what MS is doing by giving people choice. The minority of people with the expensive new cars (HDTV's/surround sounds) will opt for the more expensive premium, the majority of people with the regular old sedans will opt for the regular or core choice.
do you honestly think you'll care if no one buys wireless controllers? You'll buy em. you'll use em. i won't care.
I do care for a couple of reasons. First of all because MS removed some controller ports from the front of the console which makes the system more like PS2 than like Xbox. Second of all I care because MS put out the perception that they were going to make wireless controllers standard issue, but if it's not in the core package they're selling then the core customer isn't going to have it. It's just going to be the same as the last generation consoles where it didn't become a standard and was just a more expensive option. It's not really a big deal, but it's yet another example of MS potentially not delivering on their initial vision for this coming generation.
I don't really care what comes in the package as long as in the end it works on my stuff in 720p, 16:9, 5.1... with wireless. It doesn't change their vision at all. It's still an HD console. It doesn't matter if jim or joe consumer don't use it the way intended.
It does matter how the average joe consumer uses their games. What the average Joe gamer buys and supports affects you. The average Joe gamer is the target of publishers and game developers, not you. If the average Joe gamer doesn't choose a HDD then that affects you.
 

border

Member
brocke said:
Is it very likely at all MS will change their mind and go back to 1 sku?
They can change their outlook of course, they've obviously done it with the move to 2 SKUs. But the longer they wait, the less likely a change is. A month from now there will be thousands of pre-orders with people committed to one SKU or the other. To cancel one of them or cancel them both and replace it with a mid-range $350 bundle would be a logistics nightmare, and would sour retailer relations even further than the current switch has.

Changing next week would make them look panicked and insecure....changing next month would fuck up the launch. They've undoubtedly put a ton of thought into this, so I think they will see it through for better or for worse.
Dopeyfish said:
The base sku is the premium sku.
Wow, what a horrible way to drag this down to a game of semantics. Let's not kid ourselves -- the base SKU is CORE SKU. You say Microsoft is hedging their bets with the core pack? Well guess what, retailers will hedge their bets with it too. It's the package that retailers will order more of, it's the package that people will buy more of.

Past Christmas, the life of the Premium SKU will be hanging by a thread. Nobody is going to order units that are $100 more expensive and risk seeing them sit on the shelves while the cheaper version sells out.
MS put out the perception that they were going to make wireless controllers standard issue
Put out the perception? It's way more than that. They explicitly said that the wireless controller and HDD would come with every console. **waits for MS to delete E3 Press Release from their site**
 

border

Member
rastex said:
The SDK from the very beginning (last YEAR) explicitly stated that a HDD cannot be assumed to be present at all times.
You know, there's a huge difference between "Don't assume that the HDD will always be present" and "The HDD will not ship with every system." Square-Enix obviously thought that the HDD was going to be standard....and now it isn't.
 
Man way too much energy is being spent debating this. Go outside and get some fresh air. If you don't like Xbox 360, don't buy it. The end.
 

RoH

Member
I’m going to let my money do my talking, I just got a PS2 and a bunch of games with the reserve money I had at EB for the XBLUNDER 360. I say if you don’t like it spend your money else where or wait and see what the other two players have to offer.
 

AniHawk

Member
Synth_floyd said:
If you don't like Xbox 360, don't buy it. The end.

Some people feel seriously burned by this and need to vent. I've let out my frustrations on another forum, but partly because I think somehow, some way, this will be successful for MS when it really shouldn't.
 

cyberheater

PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
It's all about the install base and pricepoint.

Sure. For hardcore gamers the lack of HDD is a big deal for some god known reason (as it really wasn't used that much in Xbox 1) but the core unit does give MS a lot of flexibility when it comes to cost cutting and price dropping.

For the average casual gamers mum and dad, 399 dollars is just too high whereas 299 is a bearable pricepoint. And they know they can upgrade the unit later if they want to.

It also gives MS the chance to really drop the price when PS3 comes out.
If PS3 comes in at 299 then the core unit will instantly drop to 199 and given that the multiplatform next gen games will essential look the same on PS3/360 it will allow MS to get as much market share as possible.

Just imagine that for a moment. Xbox360 core unit + Halo 3 + memcart + headphone /Xbox live bundle for the same price as the stock PS3.

Smart move from MS as far as i'm concerned.
 

AniHawk

Member
cyberheater said:
It's all about the install base and pricepoint.

Sure. For hardcore gamers the lack of HDD is a big deal for some god known reason (as it really wasn't used that much in Xbox 1)

I used it every single time I saved a game, and it came with the system.
 

cyberheater

PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
AniHawk said:
I used it every single time I saved a game, and it came with the system.

Put it another way then.

If Xbox1 had the HDD as an option and the core Xbox1 system was $100 cheaper at launch, how much bigger would the install base be now.

I think MS have learned there lesson this time round.
 

Hyoushi

Member
cyberheater said:
It's all about the install base and pricepoint.

Sure. For hardcore gamers the lack of HDD is a big deal for some god known reason (as it really wasn't used that much in Xbox 1) but the core unit does give MS a lot of flexibility when it comes to cost cutting and price dropping.

For the average casual gamers mum and dad, 399 dollars is just too high whereas 299 is a bearable pricepoint. And they know they can upgrade the unit later if they want to.

It also gives MS the chance to really drop the price when PS3 comes out.
If PS3 comes in at 299 then the core unit will instantly drop to 199 and given that the multiplatform next gen games will essential look the same on PS3/360 it will allow MS to get as much market share as possible.

Just imagine that for a moment. Xbox360 core unit + Halo 3 + memcart + headphone /Xbox live bundle for the same price as the stock PS3.

Smart move from MS as far as i'm concerned.
:lol :lol :lol
 

AniHawk

Member
cyberheater said:
Put it another way then.

If Xbox1 had the HDD as an option and the core Xbox1 system was $100 cheaper at launch, how much bigger would the install base be now.

I think MS have learned there lesson this time round.

I swear it feels like we're speaking different languages.
 
cyberheater said:
It's all about the install base and pricepoint.

Sure. For hardcore gamers the lack of HDD is a big deal for some god known reason (as it really wasn't used that much in Xbox 1) but the core unit does give MS a lot of flexibility when it comes to cost cutting and price dropping.

For the average casual gamers mum and dad, 399 dollars is just too high whereas 299 is a bearable pricepoint. And they know they can upgrade the unit later if they want to.

It also gives MS the chance to really drop the price when PS3 comes out.
If PS3 comes in at 299 then the core unit will instantly drop to 199 and given that the multiplatform next gen games will essential look the same on PS3/360 it will allow MS to get as much market share as possible.

Just imagine that for a moment. Xbox360 core unit + Halo 3 + memcart + headphone /Xbox live bundle for the same price as the stock PS3.

Smart move from MS as far as i'm concerned.

Amazing. Simply amazing.
 

Red Scarlet

Member
7294556273fb7aa8a1af11.jpg

+
xbox360pack29if2rp.jpg

=
mandm_mazing.jpg


Are you amazing?!

Those contortionists have nothing on cyberheater's twisting.
 

cyberheater

PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
AniHawk said:
I swear it feels like we're speaking different languages.


If you were MS and knew you had to come in at the $299 price point but you've packed your machine full of state of the art components that aren't cheap what would you have done.

Choice:-

a) core = HDD + 256 mb ram or
b) core = 512mb ram no hdd

I think the choice is an easy one and I'm sure the devs would pick more memory over a hard drive any day.
 

DarienA

The black man everyone at Activision can agree on
cyberheater said:
If you were MS and knew you had to come in at the $299 price point but you've packed your machine full of state of the art components that aren't cheap what would you have done.

Choice:-

a) core = HDD + 256 mb ram or
b) core = 512mb ram no hdd

I think the choice is an easy one and I'm sure the devs would pick more memory over a hard drive any day.

Ok I have a legit question here... How the hell is the X360 pack with more state of the art components than any other machine that gets released in any generation?

Aren't most machines that come in at the start of each generation packed with state of the art expensive components?

And are you trying to say NO compromises were made in the X360's design?
 

cyberheater

PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
DarienA said:
Ok I have a legit question here... How the hell is the X360 pack with more state of the art components than any other machine that gets released in any generation?

Aren't most machines that come in at the start of each generation packed with state of the art expensive components?

And are you trying to say NO compromises were made in the X360's design?

I don't know where you going with this.

My point is that the $299 pricepoint is quite an achievement for a next gen machine with the specs of 360. $299 won't even get you a PSP in the UK when it's eventually released over here.
 

gofreak

GAF's Bob Woodward
cyberheater said:
I don't know where you going with this.

My point is that the $299 pricepoint is quite an achievement for a next gen machine with the specs of 360. $299 won't even get you a PSP in the UK when it's eventually released over here.

$299 has been the upper limit on console prices up until now (for consoles that have lasted anyway). X360 is no more advanced for its time than PS2 or Xbox was, in fact arguably less so (vs the Xbox at least, which had the standard HDD).
 

Beowvlf

Banned
I find it funny how MS and it's hardcore Xbot followers really have no clue why Sony currently dominates the gaming industry. For the last while, MS seemed to claim it was all about the PS2's head start, and that if the Xbox released at the same time things would be very different.

Now we have individuals praising this core pack as the key to market domination (umm, when did $299 become 'more affordable'?). Do these guys forget that the PS1 completely decimated the N64 despite being $100 more expensive? Do they also forget the PS2 destroyed the Xbox in sales despite the better-value-for-the-money the Xbox offered?

Newsflash: Sony dominates because gamers trust the PlayStation brand to provide them the experience they're used to, and they know the games will be there to do so.

What bothers me most about what MS has done isn't the HDD or the lack of BC or the retraction of their statements, its that they've screwed the games. The Xbox experience I'm used to has been completely obolished. The Xbox 360 Core pack is nothing more than a lesser PS3, and the concept of such doesn't interest me in the least.
 

Hyoushi

Member
DopeyFish said:
ok they aren't faster than reading from hard drive to memory but it's faster to read from DVD and write to main memory than it is to read from DVD, write to hard drive, read from hard drive and write to main memory.

Caching might give you a lower load time, but it might not be much... as long as the data is structured properly on the DVD.
Hehe, old quote but I just wanted to post this:
saver.jpg


:>
 

EviLore

Expansive Ellipses
Staff Member
Dopey, don't talk about hardware if you know nothing. DVD drives have faster transfer rates than hard drives? The $100 MS wifi adapter is special because it can do ad-hoc? Stop. Now. While you have the opportunity.
 

JMPovoa

Member
There will be alot of hypocrites around here come a few months.

The sheer number of posts in these threads show at least some sort of interest in the matter, and as long as that interest is not lost, there is a great probability that most of you will acquire an Xbox360, wanting it or not right now.
 

urk

butthole fishhooking yes
Heian-kyo said:
Do these guys forget that the PS1 completely decimated the N64 despite being $100 more expensive? Do they also forget the PS2 destroyed the Xbox in sales despite the better-value-for-the-money the Xbox offered?

Newsflash: Sony dominates because gamers trust the PlayStation brand to provide them the experience they're used to, and they know the games will be there to do so.

Maybe now, but something entirely different happened with the PS1 and N64 to allow Sony to get where they are today. If you recall, Nintendo held the spot Sony occupies now.
 

Reilly

Member
urk said:
Maybe now, but something entirely different happened with the PS1 and N64 to allow Sony to get where they are today. If you recall, Nintendo held the spot Sony occupies now.


Yeah, Nintendo fucked up. Microsoft had something going for it last gen (this gen?), but with the 360, it's fucking up.
 

Striek

Member
urk said:
Maybe now, but something entirely different happened with the PS1 and N64 to allow Sony to get where they are today. If you recall, Nintendo held the spot Sony occupies now.
Nintendo screwed up. So did Sega. Sony has shown no signs of following suit. If anything Sony is building on their success.
 
urk said:
Maybe now, but something entirely different happened with the PS1 and N64 to allow Sony to get where they are today. If you recall, Nintendo held the spot Sony occupies now.

Yes it's called stupidity and stubborness on Nintendo's side. Something that Sony lacks.
 

EviLore

Expansive Ellipses
Staff Member
JMPovoa said:
the wifi adapter uses the "g" norm for 108mbps doesn't it? That's why it is expensive i think.

The 802.11g standard is 54mbps. "Enhanced" 802.11g devices (like the linksys speed booster crap) claim speeds up to 35% higher, and dual channel 802.11g works at 108mbps.
 

Mihail

Banned
New subtopic: predict what the X360 userbase will look like 6 months from launch, i.e. what percentage will have the crippled version and what percentage will have the full Ferrari?
 
people are still complaining about the price of the wifi adapter. go out and look at the mocrosoft adapter now... 100 bucks, the linksys is like 80 , and the d-link gamers lounge one is 100 as well. you act like this was the deal breaker???
 

Ruzbeh

Banned
fortified_concept said:
Yes it's called stupidity and stubborness on Nintendo's side. Something that Sony lacks.
I wouldn't go so far to say that Sony lacks stupidity and stubborness, but Nintendo did make mistakes. Everyone makes mistakes, even Sony.
 
What I find amusing was that two console reign theory some people were brigning up. Considering no company has been the market leader for more than two generations, it was Microsoft's turn this time! :lol
 

Wollan

Member
truffleshuffle83 said:
people are still complaining about the price of the wifi adapter. go out and look at the mocrosoft adapter now... 100 bucks, the linksys is like 80 , and the d-link gamers lounge one is 100 as well. you act like this was the deal breaker???

I got my D-link Wifi ROUTER for 70$.
100$ for an adaptor is INSANE(escepecially for one that is going to be mass-produced for one single unit).
 

EviLore

Expansive Ellipses
Staff Member
truffleshuffle83 said:
people are still complaining about the price of the wifi adapter. go out and look at the mocrosoft adapter now... 100 bucks, the linksys is like 80 , and the d-link gamers lounge one is 100 as well. you act like this was the deal breaker???


The devices you're talking about are ETHERNET BRIDGES. The xbox 360 wifi adapter is a USB WIFI DONGLE. In other words it's really cheap. Wifi is built into the PS3. It's a ripoff.
 

EviLore

Expansive Ellipses
Staff Member
PhatSaqs said:
Then dont buy it? Show MS it's too much.

I'm sure there'll be plenty of alternatives out there. In fact, there are already!

MS isn't going to support alternatives. Alternatives will require drivers, and if MS is charging $100 for theirs then they're not going to allow third party products (at 1/5th the price) to work. There may be hacks available later on, but that won't change anything for the regular consumer.
 
Ruzbeh said:
I wouldn't go so far to say that Sony lacks stupidity and stubborness, but Nintendo did make mistakes. Everyone makes mistakes, even Sony.

Yes but history has proven that you have to do huge mistakes to lose the lead in the console industry (N64 - cartridge plus the way Nintendo always treated 3rdparties, Saturn - rushed hardware plus 32X Mega CD had already allienated fans). Sony just doesn't seem stupid enough.
 
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