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[SlimySnake]

Except this thread was on fire for well over a year BEFORE the systems even released with many folks arguing that the Xbox Series X was the more powerful console and would run games better than PS5. Any discussion about "efficiency" over raw power and the advantages of higher clocks were quickly dismissed. Seriously if you were to try to convince the unsilent majority here a year ago that PS5 would actually have a slight edge in multiplatform performance comparisons, many would have not even entertained the idea! Just funny in hindsight....I have been saying that the 2 would have a negligible performance difference for nearly 2 years so no news here.

What is really interesting here is the approach Sony is taking this generation when it comes to marketing and positioning. Anyone notice that after 2 in depth Wired previews and the "Road To PS5" GDC talk, we haven't heard a peep from System architect Mark Cerny on PS5 hardware? What's the story with the PS5 geometry engine? What about more details on the I/O subsystem and it's advantages? How about those ear pics to get custom 3D audio profiles?

The truth is that after the Road to PS5, Jim Ryan was pissed at how it was received and how many forums (such as this one) were igniting console wars and misinterpreting key information. 10TF vs 12TF, confusion on Backward Compatibility, lower clocked CPU, and of course the whole variable frequency fiasco . No Bueno for the team at PlayStation. It wasn't due to lack of confidence in the system they built, they just didn't like the narrative vs the competition and wanted to regain control over the discussion. So what does Mr. Ryan do? Effectively he silences Mark Cerny (and others internally) and focuses the discussion on where it belongs: on the games! How many times have we heard Mr. Ryan say in various webcasts/State Of Play and interviews over the past year: "It's time to let the games do the talking". That's exactly what Sony is doing now.

Forget the TFLOP count, clock speed, fixed vs variable, RDNA versions and all that other BS. What do the games say? How capable is this machine? How does it compare to the competition? Based on the games themselves (which is what matters), Sony can proudly say "Very Well"

I think the directive to shut up and let the games do the talking likely came from Cerny himself. I could tell from his interviews with Richard that he was getting a bit annoyed by Richard's refusal to let the variable clocks go. I think this exchange in particular sealed the deal and forced Cerny to go into a self-imposed sabbatical.

There's likely more to discover about how boost will influence game design. Several developers speaking to Digital Foundry have stated that their current PS5 work sees them throttling back the CPU in order to ensure a sustained 2.23GHz clock on the graphics core. It makes perfect sense as most game engines right now are architected with the low performance Jaguar in mind - even a doubling of throughput (ie 60fps vs 30fps) would hardly tax PS5's Zen 2 cores. However, this doesn't sound like a boost solution, but rather performance profiles similar to what we've seen on Nintendo Switch. "Regarding locked profiles, we support those on our dev kits, it can be helpful not to have variable clocks when optimising. Released PS5 games always get boosted frequencies so that they can take advantage of the additional power," explains Cerny.


But what if developers aren't going to optimise specifically to PlayStation 5's power ceiling? I wondered whether there were 'worst case scenario' frequencies that developers could work around - an equivalent to the base clocks PC components have. "Developers don't need to optimise in any way; if necessary, the frequency will adjust to whatever actions the CPU and GPU are performing," Mark Cerny counters. "I think you're asking what happens if there is a piece of code intentionally written so that every transistor (or the maximum number of transistors possible) in the CPU and GPU flip on every cycle. That's a pretty abstract question, games aren't anywhere near that amount of power consumption. In fact, if such a piece of code were to run on existing consoles, the power consumption would be well out of the intended operating range and it's even possible that the console would go into thermal shutdown. PS5 would handle such an unrealistic piece of code more gracefully."

P.S Dont blame Richard for prodding and asking hard hitting questions. Just wish he did that with MS engineers as well. Especially after the results we have seen since launch.

 

[Sosokrates]

Yeap the launch trend continues even after the tools upgrade…

No, xsx started getting better performing versions with greater differences like hitman 3, farcry 6, tales etc

 

[Sosokrates]

Another interesting thing is that even sony dont aknoledge the PS5 as more powerful then the XsX.
If sony believed it was the case they would include "worlds most powerful console" in marketing and PR, like they did with the PS4 and PS4 pro.

 

[Shmunter]

PS5 shooting above its pay grade or XsX the under performer? What’s the verdict then

 

[SlimySnake]

PS5 shooting above its pay grade or XsX the under performer? What’s the verdict then

Hard to say without any direct 6600xt vs 6700xt comparisons. DF too busy with other games to look into it.

 

[Tripolygon]

Not bad really. Just as expected for me anyway both consoles are very close.

 

[Tripolygon]

PS5 shooting above its pay grade or XsX the under performer? What’s the verdict then

They are very close in terms of performance, neither is overperforming or underperforming.

 

[Sosokrates]

The PS5 having better performing is likely due to a dev environment issue on the xsx.
Devs have confirmed that playstation has a more performant dev environment then the xsx.
I dont think its the hardware causing the advantages we are seeing on the ps5.

If the PS5 was made with identical specs to the XSX I think the PS5 would perform better some times and never run worse.

 

[Chukhopops]

Lmao one look at Avengers is enough to see the table is a complete joke. Imagine considering Avengers as somewhat equivalent between the two versions…

Also somehow Cyberpunk isn’t included, guess it doesn’t count .

 

[Duchess]

PS5 shooting above its pay grade or XsX the under performer? What’s the verdict then

It's because the PS5 has Blast Processing AMD SmartShift.

 

[sendit]

It seems the devs arent aiming what the console is capable of. I expect that to continue for 1-2 year.

Exactly what is a 4 teraflop console capable of?

 

[sendit]

PLAYSTATION ALWAYS WINS BABY.

 

[MonarchJT]

uhm some mistake in that list )

 

[GametimeUK]

Glad I have both these consoles and a PC so I can just buy the best performing version of the game. Digital Foundry helps me with my purchases. Super useful.

 

[Bramble]

No, xsx started getting better performing versions with greater differences like hitman 3, farcry 6, tales etc

FC6 has better vegetation, shadows, reflections and draw distance on PS5, if I'm not mistaking. Then there's BF and CoD also performing better. So yeah, the trend basically continues.

This is just an extremely interesting list. If you would've presented this before the consoles released, most people would call you delusional. I guess Mark Cerny was right when he said it’s dangerous to rely on teraflops as an absolute indicator of performance and to also avoid CU count.

I am extremely curious about future next gen only offerings. Seeing how games like Demon's Souls and Ratchet & Clank are already way ahead of anything else in their genres and some PS5 games doing RT at 60fps, it will be interesting to see the difference with Xbox Series-only games, with the knowledge of Series S being a potential bottleneck.

 

[GHG]

Xbox favoring people are clearly not happy. lol

Maybe if they didn't work themselves into a fictional frenzy before the consoles released then they would be able to make peace with the outcome.

 

[Snake29]

No trends detected…

 

[Zathalus]

FC6 has better vegetation, shadows, reflections and draw distance on PS5, if I'm not mistaking. Then there's BF and CoD also performing better. So yeah, the trend basically continues.

No, you are mistaken. For Far Cry 6 PS5 has a slight edge in distant geometry detail, but can have up to 33% less resolution at times. Also, has worse FPS (extremely minor, but the same applies to COD) and more pronounced stutter issues.

BF doesn't even have a comparison out yet.

 

[Bernd Lauert]

Enjoying the "trend" gaslighting, although maybe it is true delusion and not trolling

 

[Gameplaylover]

PS5 shooting above its pay grade or XsX the under performer? What’s the verdict then

I think in like 2-3 years when the really demanding next gen only games are coming Xbox will have more advantages, but on the other hand by that time we probably already have the midgen refreshes. They are close together and 99% of the "haha blue/green wins here" couldn't spot a difference without DF, but in the end nobody really cares it's all just for warring purposes.

 

[PropellerEar]

Sea of blue!

With little speckles of green algae.

 

[PropellerEar]

If we look at there history, sony prefers using smaller SoC's so if the PS5 pro uses 320mm² and the XsX2 uses 360mm² its likely the XsX2 will be more powerful again.

XSS waving it's microAPU(penis) at Sosokrates

 

[Tchu-Espresso]

Enjoying the "trend" gaslighting, although maybe it is true delusion and not trolling

 

[Flutta]

Now can we have them ordered in release date order, oldest to newest? Also how is it taking into account games that have 2 performance profile modes?

 

[Venom Snake]

...but but VRR

 

[Bernd Lauert]

uhm some mistake in that list )

 

[sncvsrtoip]

PS5 shooting above its pay grade or XsX the under performer? What’s the verdict then

ps5 gpu behave close to 5700xt usually so if xsx in some title is similar or even worse I would say it under performing

 

[Lysandros]

Playstation has always been the weaker console (minus the PS4 gen). They've had brief moments where you can categorize them to have been a little more powerful but generally they've never really been the most powerful console there is.

That's some poor revisionist history, lacking common sense. PS1 was certainly more powerful in matter of 3D compared to saturn and remained so until the release of N64 1.5 year later. Again the beasty PS2 remainded the most powerful machine until Xbox (and arguably GC) arrived 18 months later. PS3 was more powerful in total compute and CPU power compared to X360 while being a more complex architecture difficult to program for. PS4 was clearly superior to XboxOne costing 100$ less at launch. PS5 isn't less powerful than XSX overall if one considers all the relevant GPU metrics to game performance, and the results show it. Sony always released powerful, state of art machines featuring innovative custom tech for their time.

 

[Darsxx82]

The list is not only debatable and subjective, it is that it is clearly not correct in a large number of games . And most importantly, it is not updated

The most "surprising" thing is how he classifies by aspects instead of having a single sentence of which is better console versiopn and the purpose is clear to highlight a specific color , the blue. The fact that he recognize that the list is biased says it all. Just go to his twitter and check that he is a true fan of Playstation LOL.

That is seen by anyone and that makes that list a total joke made to satisfy the author of it and those with the same preferences.

Go ahead that to me they seem the most equal console in history and the insignificant differences and that do not affect the experience. It is that they even share 98% or more of the hardware and architecture....


FAR CRY 6:: can start with Far Cry 6 and Marvel Avenger placed in the group of "insignificant differences". when the first FC3 has an advantage in resolution of up to 30% in some moments and also advantage in performance. There is a clear winner and it is XBX.

MARVEL AVERGER: is worse, In XSX the resolution reaches 80% difference and is one of the most flagrant cases. PS5 "wins" in performance by misero 1% difference and still talks about equal versions when the clear winner is XSX.

In the other column is Control and as an example of a game with a clear difference in favor of PS5.....

CONTROL: PS5 did not win in performance, quite the opposite. Even the highly rated here NXG in its analysis gave slight advantage to XSX. The photo mode was revealing that the machine moved the game better. Sttuter's proplemeas were solved in XSX and now it is clearly the best version.

LITLLENIGTHMARE 2: fixed the RT issue.

TONY HAWK: Perform better on XSx but he not clolur green. Should be in de first colum, not like a clear game with diferences. Another excuse to add one more blue and subtract a green from the visual image

Third column.

DOOM ETERRNAL: has a clear advantage in resolution in XSX, in both modes, according to the author of the list is only light diference...

MORTAL SHELL: also had a higher resolution on XSX, even after the patch on PS5, XSX still has a higher average resolution in a clear way. The question is "be forgotten" coloring.

TALES OF ARISE: the difference in performance is to be dark green and not to qualify it as "light".

In all those games you would have only one color and winner because in them it is clear. With its formula it allows he to add more blue and generate a different impression to reality

Finally, The Mediun is already and sees the purpose of the author of the list by choosing to distinguish by characteristics and color. So you get that at first glance it seems that the PS5 version is better when this is a subjective case because talking about the winner only depends on what each person prefers. However there you have 2 blues in front of a green ...

 

[Gameplaylover]

The list is not only debatable and subjective, it is that it is clearly not correct in a large number of games . And most importantly, it is not updated

The most "surprising" thing is how he classifies by aspects instead of having a single sentence of which is better console versiopn and the purpose is clear to highlight a specific color , the blue. The fact that he recognize that the list is biased says it all. Just go to his twitter and check that he is a true fan of Playstation LOL.

That is seen by anyone and that makes that list a total joke made to satisfy the author of it and those with the same preferences.

Go ahead that to me they seem the most equal console in history and the insignificant differences and that do not affect the experience. It is that they even share 98% or more of the hardware....
But to your request. Free to point out where he is wrong.??

FAR CRY 6:: can start with Far Cry 6 and Marvel Avenger placed in the group of "insignificant differences". when the first FC3 has an advantage in resolution of up to 30% in some moments and also advantage in performance. There is a clear winner and it is XBX.

MARVEL AVERGER: is worse, In XSX the resolution reaches 80% difference and is one of the most flagrant cases. PS5 "wins" in performance by misero 1% difference and still talks about equal versions when the clear winner is XSX.

In the other column is Control and as an example of a game with a clear difference in favor of PS5.....

CONTROL: PS5 did not win in performance, quite the opposite. Even the highly rated here NXG in its analysis gave slight advantage to XSX. The photo mode was revealing that the machine moved the game better. Sttuter's proplemeas were solved in XSX and now it is clearly the best version.

LITLLENIGTHMARE 2: fixed the RT issue.

TONY HAWK: Perform better on XSx but he not clolur green. Should be in de first colum, not like a clear game with diferences. Another excuse to add one more blue and subtract a green from the visual image

Third column.

DOOM ETERRNAL: has a clear advantage in resolution in XSX, in both modes, according to the author of the list is only light diference...

MORTAL SHELL: also had a higher resolution on XSX, even after the patch on PS5, XSX still has a higher average resolution in a clear way. The question is "be forgotten" coloring.

TALES OF ARISE: the difference in performance is to be dark green and not to qualify it as "light".

I respect your effort, but the whole purpose of such on overview and posting it is console warring. Nobody actually cares if it's true/updated or not and nobody cares about those differences in everday life anyways. It's fuel for the green vs blue wars and that's it.

 

[Werewolfgrandma]

You are both free to point out where he is wrong.

That's way too much time and effort for something so trivial.

 

[Darsxx82]

I respect you effort, but the whole purpose of such on overview and posting it is console warring. Nobody actually cares if it's true/updated or not and nobody cares about those differences in everday life anyways. It's fuel for the green vs blue wars and that's it.

I am as clear as everyone here and out the purpose of that list is the console war ..... But I am no stranger to the threads and lists like these generating false information and uninformed bona fide people and that then affects the debate on this issue.

I am clear that this table will be used by many as a basis or test when it is totally biased and inacurate. Even by people of good faith only because of ignorance of their origin.

 

[MikeM]

I can say as an owner of both that playing games on both systems is great. I have never bought a game thus far and thought “should have bought this on the other system.”

 

[Bernd Lauert]

I can say as an owner of both that playing games on both systems is great. I have never bought a game thus far and thought “should have bought this on the other system.”

Just as expected even before these consoles got released. They're very close in TF terms after all.

 

[RAIDEN1]

Its a great time to be a gamer

Not really I want more competition on the hardware scene...like it was back in 1993

 

[BaneIsPain]

Not bad for a "weaker" hardware. The difference insignificant.
Win-win for all.

 

[Lysandros]

PS5 shooting above its pay grade or XsX the under performer? What’s the verdict then

Personally, i think they are performing as expected overall relative to their specifications. In that context PS5 doesn't need to shoot 'above its grade'.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

 

[sircaw]

Not really I want more competition on the hardware scene...like it was back in 1993

There is a tremendous amount of hardware available today in terms of ps5 +xbox, portable devices like switch and steam deck, along with what is the powerhouse that is the PC.

Accessibility options for disabled games are now becoming more commonplace.

There is an incredible indie scene that is constantly growing.

I also miss the old days of my master system + mega drive, One of my friends had a neo geo that was used for his shops arcade, simply amazing etc but no two ways about it, gaming is fantastic atm.

 

[Stuart360]

There is a tremendous amount of hardware available today in terms of ps5 +xbox, portable devices like switch and steam deck, along with what is the powerhouse that is the PC.

Accessibility options for disabled games are now becoming more commonplace.

There is an incredible indie scene that is constantly growing.

I also miss the old days of my master system + mega drive, One of my friends had a neo geo that was used for his shops arcade, simply amazing etc but no two ways about it, gaming is fantastic atm.

Yeah that was a weird one. In 1993 we had Snes Genesis, and PC. I dont think even Neo Geo was out in 93.
There are so many consoles, portable gaming devices, and different ways of playing games today.

 

[GymWolf]

I was expecting something like this before entering the topic

 

[RAIDEN1]

There is a tremendous amount of hardware available today in terms of ps5 +xbox, portable devices like switch and steam deck, along with what is the powerhouse that is the PC.

Accessibility options for disabled games are now becoming more commonplace.

There is an incredible indie scene that is constantly growing.

I also miss the old days of my master system + mega drive, One of my friends had a neo geo that was used for his shops arcade, simply amazing etc but no two ways about it, gaming is fantastic atm.

Fair point about accessibilty for disabled gamers, which was probably non existant in the era of Sega Nintendo, 3DO, Commodore and Atari...Along with the rise of the PC when the Amiga went dead in 1996...

 

[ToTTenTranz]

PS5 shooting above its pay grade or XsX the under performer? What’s the verdict then

Neither.
They both have very equivalent performance despite slightly different approaches that result in their different strengths being pushed in different games.

Which is great for consumers in general and not so great for console warriors in both sides (famous youtube tech channels included).

 

[Lysandros]

ps5 gpu behave close to 5700xt usually so if xsx in some title is similar or even worse I would say it under performing

Well 5700 XT doesn't have a 560/336 GB/s split bandwidth pool prone to contention, it has 448 GB/s of unified bandwidth for itself. More importantly, in 5700 XT 512 KB of SA L1 cache is shared by 10 CUs, compared to XSX' 13. That means in 5700 XT each CU has acces to 30% more L1 cache. So more data ready to be processed at higher bandwidth/lower latency at any given moment, thus improving saturation/efficiency. The point is also true in context of PS5/XSX of course.

 

[Mabdia]

The one that run better Tales of Arise and Devil May Cry 5 is the winner!!! So...

Spoiler

PC is the winner?

In the end it does not metter. One overpriced piece of plastic to play multiplataform games, or other overpriced piece of plastic to play multiplataform games. Sadly my PS4 has died and soon I'll have to buy or another PS4 or a PS5... Where I live the prices aren't that different.

 

[Heisenberg007]

PS5 after surprising everyone:

 

[Skifi28]

Most comparisons be like:

 

[mejin]

 

[Md Ray]

The jury is still out on how much a benefit higher clocks provide.

Shin'en tells us that in the case of its engine, the increase to clock frequencies and the difference in memory set-up makes the difference.

 

[SLB1904]

Wow Sony engineer's are pretty cool, right?