MasterCornholio
Member
People shouldn't be mad that there isn't a massive difference between the two. The two systems being very close is actually a good thing. The only ones that lose are console warriors.
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After one year of Xbox Series X and PS5, here is a summary of the results of all Digital Foundry comparison videos of new-gen games
- Thread starter Lunatic_Gamer
- Start date
- Analysis
Tripolygon
Banned
It really eludes me why people always ignore SS as if it is not part of current gen. It is selling just as much as SX.
Riky
$MSFT
People still clinging to those launch comparisons. Nearly all those games have been patched, Dirt 5 performs better on Series X framerate wise, Valhalla the same and Control was fixed by a firmware patch and is the better version. I could go on but don't need to.
If the tests were done today it would all look very different.
If the tests were done today it would all look very different.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
When you put it like that, the list is definitely suspect.
Though in regards to Control, the stutters were mostly framerate drops. Yes, it performed better overall in photo mode but you dont play photomode. And there were times where it only had a 1 fps advantage in photomode. Maybe if DF can redo that test and confirm if those drops are no longer present then we can put control in the XSX column.
At the end of the day, Far Cry 6 and Avengers should be in the XSX column so they are both pretty much tied. The coloring stuff is minor and could go either way.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
I just saw that stat in the other thread and it blew me away. I thought the U.S numbers were closer to 40% but UK being 50-50 is alarming. I was pissed at Sony for undershipping the cheaper $399 version to mitigate losses, but I never expected MS to undership their flagship console. If anything they should be undershipping the xss since the vast majority of launch year sales are by the most hardcore.
So now we find out that HALF of the Xbox next population isnt even getting the best version of the games. And in many cases, they are getting unacceptable versions of games with no 60 fps support, no RT support, lowest quality foliage and geometry settings, and no 120 fps support.
I think this needs to be a bigger conversation.
James Sawyer Ford
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That's basically comes down to the same: better looking foliage and a better draw distance. The reflections are also better. To be honest I prefer those over a minor resolution difference I won't be able to see anyway. I'm currently playing Guardians of the Galaxy and no matter how hard I try, I can hardly spot the IQ difference during gameplay when switching between performance and quality. The framerate however..
Apart from that, PS5 seems to have the edge and I think we can count each draw also as a win for PS5, since in those cases it's achieving the same with less power, I've been told.
El Analista has a BF video. PS5 has better temporal reconstruction, resulting in a sharper image. And better textures closer to the PC version. Framerate is mostly the same.
Microsoft has the data and know that Xbox One X wasn't selling very well compared to Xbox One S , Xbox Series S is the console that they can sell the most of through the Holidays & they both play the same games so it will pad the user base & keep publishers from jumping ship as PS5 gain a large lead.I just saw that stat in the other thread and it blew me away. I thought the U.S numbers were closer to 40% but UK being 50-50 is alarming. I was pissed at Sony for undershipping the cheaper $399 version to mitigate losses, but I never expected MS to undership their flagship console. If anything they should be undershipping the xss since the vast majority of launch year sales are by the most hardcore.
So now we find out that HALF of the Xbox next population isnt even getting the best version of the games. And in many cases, they are getting unacceptable versions of games with no 60 fps support, no RT support, lowest quality foliage and geometry settings, and no 120 fps support.
I think this needs to be a bigger conversation.
Loxus
Member
Not saying an update can't improve performance, but can you link sources to your information?
Maybe someone who is neutral, can do a list after these key updates.
It still not going to change the fact that these consoles are very close in performance though.
FrankWza
Member
With 2 of their flagship franchises set to release as well. I said this to you in that one thread a couple of weeks back and I was attacked and reported from so many directions.I just saw that stat in the other thread and it blew me away. I thought the U.S numbers were closer to 40% but UK being 50-50 is alarming. I was pissed at Sony for undershipping the cheaper $399 version to mitigate losses, but I never expected MS to undership their flagship console. If anything they should be undershipping the xss since the vast majority of launch year sales are by the most hardcore.
So now we find out that HALF of the Xbox next population isnt even getting the best version of the games. And in many cases, they are getting unacceptable versions of games with no 60 fps support, no RT support, lowest quality foliage and geometry settings, and no 120 fps support.
I think this needs to be a bigger conversation.
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Riky
$MSFT
You forgot to mention he also said AF and reflections were better on Series X and the best framerate was on Series S.
Azurro
Banned
You speak all the time as if the differences were significant, it's silly. 99% of the time you need measuring tools and image magnification to even notice the difference between XSX and PS5, that's including every buzzword you have memorized.
Zathalus
Member
The reflections are the same. The only difference other then resolution is the very slight distant geometry. Neither Nxgamer, DF, or VGtech picked up any other differences. If you can't tell the difference with a up to 33% resolution gap, you are not going to pick up the difference with the geometry.
Hell, if you can't tell the difference between 1080p and 4k then for you the Series S version of Far Cry 6 may as well be the same as the PS5 version in your eyes.
Lastly, El Analista is a bit of a joke when it comes to technical analysis. The only thing that is fine is the FPS counter, and they even got that wrong.
mansoor1980
Gold Member
this war is not over YET.............once cross gen games are done then the REAL advantages of each system will show.
3liteDragon
Member
Skyfox
Member
DF playing both sides and playing it safe this year. They just want to do technical exploration, they don't want to be sued or start flame wars.
I have had ps5 and series x since day one and DF have been hesitant to point to an overall winner. Every time they point out a benefit or weakness of one system, they counter it with an opposing observation in the same breath.
Series X is more powerful.
I have had ps5 and series x since day one and DF have been hesitant to point to an overall winner. Every time they point out a benefit or weakness of one system, they counter it with an opposing observation in the same breath.
Series X is more powerful.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
I disagree. They wouldve sold every single xbox series x in the launch year. The xbox hardcore population is still at least 20-30 million strong. They spend more than Nintendo and Sony userbases too. MS shouldve kept the xss for the 2 or maybe even the third year after they had completely saturated the hardcore market.
Bernd Lauert
Banned
That looks like the more correct list, although I'd put Control in the neutral section.
Those highlighted in yellow are launch games. Let me know if I have gotten anything wrong.
The one game that is questionable is The Medium. The two versions differ so much that they're barely comparable imo. PS5 has several tuned down settings, which allows it to push higher resolutions. I see it more in the neutral section.
Sosokrates
Report me if I continue to console war
Md Ray
More information would of been nice from shinin.
Shinin said the high frequency, memory setup and rewitting the engine for the PS5's low level APi's make 8k possible.
But he never said 8k was not possible on the XSX.
More clarification is needed. Its not great that John and Richard were so keen to go along with this conclusion without more information they should of asked shinin more questions.
tommib
Member
What I find delightful is that despite all the DF videos and the frame rate console wars in the forum, buyers couldn't care less about the technicalities - which also explains the Switch success despite the constant flow of posts mocking Nintendo and the console's performance. People want to play their games, end of story. Well done on the S. Microsoft did the right move by having these 2 models despite what the nerds might think. I've met people IRL that ended up buying the S because they couldn't find the PS5 or the X - and they don't regret it at all.I just saw that stat in the other thread and it blew me away. I thought the U.S numbers were closer to 40% but UK being 50-50 is alarming. I was pissed at Sony for undershipping the cheaper $399 version to mitigate losses, but I never expected MS to undership their flagship console. If anything they should be undershipping the xss since the vast majority of launch year sales are by the most hardcore.
So now we find out that HALF of the Xbox next population isnt even getting the best version of the games. And in many cases, they are getting unacceptable versions of games with no 60 fps support, no RT support, lowest quality foliage and geometry settings, and no 120 fps support.
I think this needs to be a bigger conversation.
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FrankWza
Member
I disagree. The x is putting their best foot forward. They finally had a strong showing of first party games back to back and they don’t have the stock of their best product available. It’s a missed opportunity. The secondary market is there and you can see series x going for well above retail to prove demand is higher on that unit.
tommib
Member
I'm not sure that matters when the strong showing of first party games can be played on the S at great performance. The best product available is the one that you can buy easily at retail price and from what we see from the sales reports people are realising that. Series S has been mocked and put into question since the start with everyone asking what was its point and that no one would buy a subpar product/second rate console. A year later we now know that at least half of Series sales are for the S.
FrankWza
Member
Yeah absolutely. But it looks like it’s more of a product of availability vs demand. If they are both equally available I would think more people would grab an x over an s. The only question would be the split. 65/35? 70/30? I would say 80/20 myself
Bernd Lauert
Banned
The game uses deferred rendering, which can be ROP bound. It's the one game where PS5 might have an innate advantage.
More information would of been nice from shinin.
Shinin said the high frequency, memory setup and rewitting the engine for the PS5's low level APi's make 8k possible.
But he never said 8k was not possible on the XSX.
More clarification is needed. Its not great that John and Richard were so keen to go along with this conclusion without more information they should of asked shinin more questions.
avin
Member
Those highlighted in yellow are launch games. Let me know if I have gotten anything wrong.
I would remove the Medium. Those are two different versions, they stress different things, it isn't possible to compare the XSX and PS5 versions fairly. But I agree, that looks like an interesting list. The XSX wins a few more than the PS5, as perhaps expected, but overall it's close enough to not matter very much.
avin
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Tripolygon
Banned
What is interesting is that they are not necessarily under shipping XSX but the XSS SoC is so small that they are getting a greater number of usable chips from each XSS production wafer. 197 mm2 vs 360.4 mm2. Sony is the more important customer in terms of production runs so AMD allocates more to Sony than Microsoft who then has to split them between their two consoles while PS5 has a single production run with a smaller chip with greater yield.I just saw that stat in the other thread and it blew me away. I thought the U.S numbers were closer to 40% but UK being 50-50 is alarming. I was pissed at Sony for undershipping the cheaper $399 version to mitigate losses, but I never expected MS to undership their flagship console. If anything they should be undershipping the xss since the vast majority of launch year sales are by the most hardcore.
So now we find out that HALF of the Xbox next population isnt even getting the best version of the games. And in many cases, they are getting unacceptable versions of games with no 60 fps support, no RT support, lowest quality foliage and geometry settings, and no 120 fps support.
I think this needs to be a bigger conversation.
alabtrosMyster
Banned
How long do you give the devs to fix their sh*t? 1 month? 2 patches? a year?
Most people buy games very early after release.
Plus, they do update videos on many games.
kingfey
Banned
until game is fully playable and no bugs.
We are just tired of shitty releases, and waiting for devs to take long time to fix it.
Sosokrates
Report me if I continue to console war
But ROP performance is the same on PS5 and XSX.
Bernd Lauert
Banned
PS5 has 22% more ROP throughput.
Control from launch performed better on XSx and that took off in the most stressful moments where XSx maintained the framerate better.
You even have NXGen ts analysis affirming and granting "slight advantage in XSX". The photo mode is the benchmark that let you see the real difference that the machine performed better. In many cases of 10 + fps, but after the update the XSX version eliminates the crashes due to chekpoint and sttuter and there is no longer any discussion what version is better.
Then in Avenger and FC6 the problem is not the number of colors, which is also, is that he places them in the table of insignificant differences when it is totally absurd and even more so when he sees his criteria in games where he paints the PS5 version blue and places them on the table of appreciable differences.
The reality is that it is a comparison full of inaccuracies and subjectivity and leads to error.
Anyone with a minimun of sense can see that this is possibly the generation with the more equally consoles and the differences never really affect the gaming experience. But it does not mean that more emphasis should be placed on avoiding this type of comparisons based on subjectivity and preferences that distort reality and lead to confusion even to good faith people for time of debate. I see myself a lot of misinformed people using this list for support her arguments list in some discussion and that would be sad.
alabtrosMyster
Banned
Let's say for example that you really like xbox and you bought in the MS PR and Digital Foundry speculations before the launch. You were expecting the xbox to DESTROY the competition in every way that matters, this kind of data will make you feel sad or even upset.
Even if you want to argue how a couple of games should be in a different column, the general idea is the game, you don't pick a console for specs if you hesitate between the PS5 and Series X (Switch and Series S is a different story).
James Sawyer Ford
Member
in retrospect it’s sort of a really stupid call
supply constraints have made the situation worse. Im not going to settle for an XSS if I want an XSX
FrankWza
Member
Another point on Microsoft realizing which is more in demand is the halo series x. There is no Halo s. They also released a halo elite controller that retails for $180. They’re both sold out and are going for way above retail in secondary markets
Sosokrates
Report me if I continue to console war
Oh, because of the clockspeed.
Its all very well saying deferred rendering can be ROP bound, but it can also be compute bound. We need a dev to explain because the folks here (including myself) dont have the understanding.
You have a warped sense of reality if you think 20 - 30 million people would be buying $500 Xbox Series X consoles when devs wouldn't be getting much back from the Xbox Series X version because of slower adoption rate & Gamepass. Series S is helping not hurting Xbox Series.
alabtrosMyster
Banned
This is why analysis and reviews should be made on release day or within days if you don't have review codes. Giving in on waiting for post release patches until "the game" works (like Cyberpunk 2077), or they make it fun (like Sea of Thieves).
They can do "updated reviews/analysis" later if they want to, same for content updates, etc. but many games never really get fixed at all too (Fallout 1976... well any Fallout game), should they just be ignored until some fans fix the PC version?
But I am not for giving sloppy studios and developers a pass on day one just because sometimes they release patches. People can buy the game day one, this is when it should be evaluated, no BS.
Sosokrates
Report me if I continue to console war
No more stupid then the PS5digital for people where value is important and sony dont have a gamepass equivalent.
FrankWza
Member
I agree it’s helping because something is better than nothing. But if the x was as available I think people would pick the x over s. And if they produced more x they would sell. There’s unsold s consoles @ $200] cheaper
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Pedro Motta
Member
They need that lower entry cost to increase Gamepass numbers.I just saw that stat in the other thread and it blew me away. I thought the U.S numbers were closer to 40% but UK being 50-50 is alarming. I was pissed at Sony for undershipping the cheaper $399 version to mitigate losses, but I never expected MS to undership their flagship console. If anything they should be undershipping the xss since the vast majority of launch year sales are by the most hardcore.
So now we find out that HALF of the Xbox next population isnt even getting the best version of the games. And in many cases, they are getting unacceptable versions of games with no 60 fps support, no RT support, lowest quality foliage and geometry settings, and no 120 fps support.
I think this needs to be a bigger conversation.
You can also buy a $399 PS5 that play games just as good$500 system about as good as $500 system
Sosokrates
Report me if I continue to console war
The S is introducing buyers who would not normally buy a console at launch.
Also to get prices down they have to have economics of scale, the longer the seriesS is in production the quicker it will turn a profit.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Wait a second. Are you telling me that if the Xbox had launched with just the XSX version, it wouldnt even sell 20 million units?
And >I< have a warped sense of reality?
FrankWza
Member
I don’t agree. But even if it’s true they aren’t producing more s vs x because they want to. It’s success is circumstantial. And there are always units available and they just released their 2 biggest franchise titles.