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[MayauMiao]

I thought both girls looks best in last scene , new abby's haircut much better similar to ellies, just great,wonder would ellie go against her city her people like that how abby did. They should made abby in that haircut trough all game or like make it option on second run maybe.

Agree. Abby started to look somewhat attractive to look at with that short hair and slimmer figure. I can't stand to watch Lets Plays featuring Abby due to that man arms and that rope pigtail along with the sour face.

 

[MayauMiao]

The TLoU2 meme is priceless.

 

[ZZZZ]

The issue isn't that Joel died. It was never that Joel died. The issue has always been *how* he died as the entire scene he acts completely counter to his character. He isn't one to immediately open up and trust folks like that. He wouldn't put himself in a situation like that. There are a thousand ways that they could have had Abby and her crew kill off Joel in a manner that doesn't force him to act out of character. Force him in a situation where he runs into a dead end after being chased by Infected. Have him get killed by infected after Abby and Co. make noise. Have him explore and suddenly get attacked or captured and *then* tortured/killed.

Any and all of these ideas (and far more if you look at TLOU2 reddit, discords, and other social media/forum posts) are better than what they did.

Thank you! That wasn't Joel at all, the inconsistency of the characters with this game is unbelievable, looked like the writers forgot about their personalities and their past.
Most of the people that disliked this game had no problem with Joel dying, or being brutally tortured, but with how the entire scene was written.

He and Thommy should immediately be cautious of random strangers armed to the teeth wearing patches, especially in the middle of nowhere close to their city, this is exactly the kind of thing they are watching out for when doing patrols besides infected, stay in a different place of the house, leave through another entrance and go towards a different lookout, they have been patrolling this routes for years now, they have backup plans, and not only this didn't happen they immediately go out of character and start talking with them, Thommy even offers them to go to their city and restock, jesus.

What's more insulting is that Ellie gets from her patrol checkpoint to the house without a problem, what's stopping Joel and Thommy from going to a different place as well?

 

[PanzerAzel]

Oh this is gonna be a fun review when it comes out.

Man speaks the truth.

Got to the second half. They sent a very visibly pregnant woman out on a mission with Abby And in the first half Dina tells Ellie she is pregnant. Then the babies dad randomly shows up in the middle of Seattle the next day only to get shot after Ellie tells him he is the father.

The writing is so bad.

MTV teen drama soap opera try-hard shit.

 

[DanielMann861]

I finished it over the weekend. It's worse than I thought it was going to be.

It's so scatterbrain in ideas and themes, but yet not a single one of those ideas adds up to anything. It wants to be deep and complex, but it winds up feeling about as deep as a puddle.

At best, it wants to be a typical "vengeance is pointless" type story, but the ending just shits the bed so completely and loses all the focus of what this story is even about. Is it about learning to forgive? Has notions of that but nothing about it adds up with any real thought.

And at worst, it completely shits on the interesting thought provoking ending of the original game by painting Joel to be the unquestionable bad guy of the piece. Which is quite the opposite of the original games ending where that was up in the air left for the player to ponder over. But at the same time, it doesn't quite have the balls to fully demonise him either with that ending leaving me to wonder, what was the point of everything I just played? What was the point of this game?

It wants to be this big epic tale that is constantly asking the audience to question who is the protagonist and who is the antagonist of the piece? But it can't even do that right.

Somewhere buried in this game is a much better game waiting to be explored...and that game involves Joel and Ellie...the scenes with Joel and Ellie are the best thing about the game...everything else surrounding it is pointless garbage.

Also, to all these critics pretending they actually felt bad when killing people in this game...how can you feel bad when these people are all seemingly out to kill you while feeling no remorse about it? Some of the reviews around this game are completely laughable.

 

[DanielMann861]

It honestly feels like they were trying to go for something much larger by showing both sides of one vengeance story and blur those lines. But in the end, it kind of negates any point to be made. Abby gets away with her vengeance and for the most part walks away clean. I mean, she was ready to kill Dina in cold blood even after finding out she was pregnant. It was only that Lev happened to be there that she reconsidered. Meanwhile, Ellie had a near breakdown of guilt after she found out she killed a pregnant woman in cold blood. And yet, Ellie chooses forgiveness in the end and walks away with nothing? Walks away without her family and left without her fingers?

The game tries so hard to make us feel empathy for Abby, and yet, I never once felt anything but apathy for her. Meanwhile, the game tries to paint Ellie and Joel almost as the bad guys in the equation, yet they actually have more depth to them as characters and are still far and away more interesting to study.

I think, if you want to try and blur those lines, then you'd better make Abby way more interesting than what she was. But I sure as hell didn't see that. Instead, I played as a character I was largely apathetic to for countless hours...to the point where it made me want to quit the game. Almost. It was only because I begrudgingly wanted to see it through hoping it would get better. It didn't. It really didn't.

And then the stuff with the war between WLF and The Seraphites. That was so entirely pointless....could have been interesting. Maybe if they had made a narrative devoted to it without all the revenge stuff on the side then maybe it could have been interesting. But it's just a further example of how completely and utterly scatterbrain the story is. It has a world of ideas running through it's head, but it's about as deep as a puddle on close inspection.

I also find it hilarious to watch streamer reactions. If Naughty Dog really thought they were onto something with Abby and it was gonna make female gamer's feel empowered then they should actually go and watch some of the female streamer reactions to Joel's death. Where those same women actively call Abby a bitch and wish instant death on her for killing Joel.

Mind you, I don't care that Joel died. I've been Team Joel's Dead ever since the announcement trailer hit way back when. But I would have at least liked it to mean something or have a better story surrounding it.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

It honestly feels like they were trying to go for something much larger by showing both sides of one vengeance story and, as you said, blur those lines. But in the end, it kind of negates any point to be made. Abby gets away with her vengeance and for the most part walks away clean. I mean, she was ready to kill Dina in cold blood even after finding out she was pregnant. It was only that Lev happened to be there that she reconsidered. Meanwhile, Ellie had a near breakdown of guilt after she found out she killed a pregnant woman in cold blood. And yet, Ellie chooses forgiveness in the end and walks away with nothing? Walks away without her family and left without her fingers?

The game tries so hard to make us feel empathy for Abby, and yet, I never once felt anything but apathy for her. Meanwhile, the game tries to paint Ellie and Joel almost as the bad guys in the equation, yet they actually have more depth to them as characters and are still far and away more interesting to study.

I think, if you want to try and blur those lines, then you'd better make Abby way more interesting than what she was. But I sure as hell didn't see that. Instead, I played as a character I was largely apathetic to for countless hours...to the point where it made me want to quit the game. Almost. It was only because I begrudgingly wanted to see it through hoping it would get better. It didn't. It really didn't.

And then the stuff with the war between WLF and The Seraphites. That was so entirely pointless....could have been interesting. Maybe if they had made a narrative devoted to it without all the revenge stuff on the side then maybe it could have been interesting. But it's just a further example of how completely and utterly scatterbrain the story is. It has a world of ideas running through it's head, but it's about as deep as a puddle on close inspection.

I also find it hilarious to watch streamer reactions. If Naughty Dog really thought they were onto something with Abby and it was gonna make female gamer's feel empowered then they should actually go and watch some of the female streamer reactions to Joel's death. Where those same women actively call Abby a bitch and wish instant death on her for killing Joel.

Mind you, I don't care that Joel died. I've been Team Joel's Dead ever since the announcement trailer hit way back when. But I would have at least liked it to mean something or have a better story surrounding it.

I think the overall main issue is lots of video game directors and writers think because they are in media, they are Hollywood movie stars.

1. Video games are totally different and the audience (gamers) expects different things than movies. Movies are often "good guy wins", but you still get a lot more weird shit like Reservoir Dogs or Memento, so what Druckmann is trying to do is twist gamers expectations in a game plot into clever plot turns assuming the fan base will accept it.

2. And let's face it, I don't think there is one game out there with so much SJW/virtue signalling so with social media on such high alert on this stuff for probably 5 years or so, having this stuff in the game the game makers thought it be a slam dunk for acceptance. If social media loves it, gamers (being social) will love it too.

They made bad assumptions combining both points into a game.

 

[scalman]

Too much hate for abby seems like, i started to like her and changed my mind later on . How could you not?
Seems like game fits to ones more then other relates more , depend what kind of person you are or in what state in life you are now. I was so related to joel in first game like yh i would like to have this thing too as he has and i would do this too. In this game later on i felt so much like pitty to abby and later on even more like wow , and felt for ellies revenge mission but then some things as they showed like she hated joel for keeping her alive then same time she kinda enjoyed her life but hated joel stupid, and then went crazy for finding and killing all, that i get too its hard and cool but not enough deep for ellie character i think.
In end they kinda very similar ellie and abby in some way they do stuff they do for same reason though ellie more harsh with killing anyone and abby not so much

 

[Balducci30]

Too much hate for abby seems like, i started to like her and changed my mind later on . How could you not?
Seems like game fits to ones more then other relates more , depend what kind of person you are or in what state in life you are now. I was so related to joel in first game like yh i would like to have this thing too as he has and i would do this too. In this game later on i felt so much like pitty to abby and later on even more like wow , and felt for ellies revenge mission but then some things as they showed like she hated joel for keeping her alive then same time she kinda enjoyed her life but hated joel stupid, and then went crazy for finding and killing all, that i get too its hard and cool but not enough deep for ellie character i think.
In end they kinda very similar ellie and abby in some way they do stuff they do for same reason though ellie more harsh with killing anyone and abby not so much

Abby’s story is pretty much a Joel from the first game redemption arc - which I think was definitely intended. She plays similar to Joel too with her strength and skill tree. They clearly put a lot of work in trying to paint her as sympathetic as possible and paint Ellie as having gone too far in order for you to get through the second half of the game.

 

[JimiNutz]

I'm glad that I didn't read soilers ahead of playing the game but I am definitely disappointed that there wasn't more to the storyline in terms of twists or surprises.

Although I appreciate the narrative switches and use of flashbacks I think it was a little bit overdone and I'd rather have spent the game playing entirely, or at least predominantly, as Ellie.

I didn't really dislike Abby as a character and she is still fun enough to play as. I just feel like The Last of Us games should always be about Joel and Ellie and wish that the game was more focused on them.

 

[Dr. Claus]

Abby’s story is pretty much a Joel from the first game redemption arc - which I think was definitely intended. She plays similar to Joel too with her strength and skill tree. They clearly put a lot of work in trying to paint her as sympathetic as possible and paint Ellie as having gone too far in order for you to get through the second half of the game.

There are a few scenes that are absolutely pointless and hurt her more than help her characterization (such as the completely pointless gratuitous sex scene), but I will admit that I found her infinitely more interesting than Ellie. Hell, while I am on the topic, this isn't even Ellie! This is some imposter wearing her skin as a costume. She acts completely counter to how she acted in the first game. She has somehow become even more stupid than her 14 year old self, her first reaction to joel's death is to right a fucking poem (which isn't something TLOU1 Ellie would have done), and the majority of her dialogue with Dina and Jesse is vapid bullshit. She has become, in every sense of the word, a stereotype.

Also I still don't know why they made Abby look like a roided out man. Still makes zero sense even after playing the game. What is so wrong with making her physique more like Nadine from Uncharted 4? Or hell, make her look more like Tessa from TLOU1!

 

[scalman]

I need those haircuts for second run

How come we have plenty new clothes to choose in game and bags in first game and nothing on this new upgraded engine? Thats what i want to do on second run change clothes bags and haircuts

 

[StreetsofBeige]

I need those haircuts for second run

How come we have plenty new clothes to choose in game and bags in first game and nothing on this new upgraded engine? Thats what i want to do on second run change clothes bags and haircuts

What's with Abby's left arm bicep being super pale white? She's supposed to be weakened on a wooden stake, yet look how big it is in the top pic.

With short hair, it makes the character look 100% like a man. At least before with long hair, the character had a slight resemblance to female.

 

[vypper]

Abby and lev relationship is fucking bizzare, why she cares so much about him? she even goes on a suicide mission to save him but WHY? the game doesnt give you a good reason for her to do so, if abby was trans and was treated badly in the past and felt sorry for lev because of that then it can work , but no, abby was loved and respected by her friends, so why she goes to this length to save him? she even watched her friend die in front of her (manny) and she just brushed it off like it's nothing and went to save the kid like his the most important thing for her she even told him that he is her people!! at that moment i was like WHAT? i just didn't buy it. ofcourse i know why naughty dog did it, they were trying to mirror the relationship between joel and ellie from the first game but they failed because joel and ellie's relationship had time to grow in the first game, also joel had a legitimate reason to care about ellie beacuse she gave him a second chance to be a father again , but abby and lev's relaionship didn't have that at all.

 

[Dr. Claus]

What's with Abby's left arm bicep being super pale white? She's supposed to be weakened on a wooden stake, yet look how big it is in the top pic.

With short hair, it makes the character look 100% like a man. At least before with long hair, the character had a slight resemblance to female.

Honestly she reminds me of Cersei from Game of Thrones after she was put in the cells.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Abby and lev relationship is fucking bizzare, why she cares so much about him? she even goes on a suicide mission to save him but WHY? the game doesnt give you a good reason for her to do so, if abby was trans and was treated badly in the past and felt sorry for lev because of that then it can work , but no, abby was loved and respected by her friends, so why she goes to this length to save him? she even watched her friend die in front of her (manny) and she just brushed it off like it's nothing and went to save the kid like his the most important thing for her she even told him that he is her people!! at that moment i was like WHAT? i just didn't buy it. ofcourse i know why naughty dog did it, they were trying to mirror the relationship between joel and ellie from the first game but they failed because joel and ellie's relationship had time to grow in the first game, also joel had a legitimate reason to care about ellie beacuse she gave him a second chance to be a father again , but abby and lev's relaionship didn't have that at all.

Maybe because Druckmann wants trans Lev to be a hopeless loser that needs saving. Something the LQBT community has criticized the character about as basically fodder for punishment and needs protecting.

1. One way to virtue signal is to make a trans character strong on their own two feet.

2. Another way to virtue signal is to have everyday cis people to swoop in and save the day as a way of protecting trans characters, which shows their love for the trans community.

Druckmann picked #2.

 

[Balducci30]

Abby and lev relationship is fucking bizzare, why she cares so much about him? she even goes on a suicide mission to save him but WHY? the game doesnt give you a good reason for her to do so, if abby was trans and was treated badly in the past and felt sorry for lev because of that then it can work , but no, abby was loved and respected by her friends, so why she goes to this length to save him? she even watched her friend die in front of her (manny) and she just brushed it off like it's nothing and went to save the kid like his the most important thing for her she even told him that he is her people!! at that moment i was like WHAT? i just didn't buy it. ofcourse i know why naughty dog did it, they were trying to mirror the relationship between joel and ellie from the first game but they failed because joel and ellie's relationship had time to grow in the first game, also joel had a legitimate reason to care about ellie beacuse she gave him a second chance to be a father again , but abby and lev's relaionship didn't have that at all.

I think the way they got around this was that she was doing it as some sort of atonement for killing Joel the way she did.

 

[xrnzaaas]

I need those haircuts for second run

How come we have plenty new clothes to choose in game and bags in first game and nothing on this new upgraded engine? Thats what i want to do on second run change clothes bags and haircuts

Noooo, I wouldn't want to strip the characters of their last feminine features.

 

[009EspadaSageJay]

Random convo i saw on a sub reddit.

- "So why are people hating on this game"
- "I hear it's because it has girls kissing or something"
- "People are such bigots"

This makes me hate woke garbage even more. Because it becomes a shield. Ever since ghostbusters 2016 it's been like this.

Valid criticism incoming. Activate woke shield"
RACIST
TRANSPHOBIC
HOMOPHOBIC
BIGOT
Attack deflected successfully.

I replied and spoiled the WHOLE fucking game. I was expecting to be downvoted all the way to hell. But people are actually upvoting.

Its only in the entertainment field that people fall back on personal victim mentality. This game is bad he must be a biogot the only reason why they do this in gaming and movies is because most people dont bother's confronting them on there failed logic which is how gaming now has turned in the political,activist, self serving spectacle that we see. If these people took there politics to actual people who talk about politics this people will loose ever debate and discussion imaginable.

 

[009EspadaSageJay]

Regardless of sales, which will be huge, i wonder if Cuckman can survive this long term. The public backlash is immense.

Hes one part of the problem but the biggest problem is what TLOU2 was able to get away with in a game was insane. If you go to the JP forums "i forgot the website" most JP devs,player and eveyone in between is pissed how JP games get censored in the ground while TLOU2 was able to do what ever it wanted. JP devs are going to not want to deal with sony in anyway shape or forum going forward unless sony does a full 180 on there polices.

 

[009EspadaSageJay]

That was my reaction to the original, I just felt like the story, script, writing, characters, and pacing carried it more than the gameplay itself. Gameplay was fine, sure, but nothing revolutionary even at the time it launched.

Obviously to each their own across the board, I'm genuinely happy for people that can enjoy things a great deal. It's just wild to me that there are people that thought TLOU was a "game of the generation", or even more baffling, TLOU2. Like, what games have you played that weren't worthy of that label? What truly makes TLOU and/or TLOU2 worthy of such a label? Just a genuine question full of no judgement, just curiosity, haha.

What truly makes TLOU and/or TLOU2 worthy of such a label? Just a genuine question full of no judgement, just curiosity, haha.

The same people who want to change gaming into the Hollywood/Music machine you cant have a game just be dumb fun it has to push a agenda or political message or be some self serving deconstruction of the human mind or anything super pretentious. And these same people are the ones who want anything that not PC out of the industry this is why we have sites that spend 24/7 on twitter tumblr harassing JP devs because they dont care about there fake agenda.

 

[PanzerAzel]

Also I still don't know why they made Abby look like a roided out man. Still makes zero sense even after playing the game. What is so wrong with making her physique more like Nadine from Uncharted 4? Or hell, make her look more like Tessa from TLOU1!

Makes perfect sense. Neil is designing her character in such a way to appease and pander to the trans community. If you pay attention, he's also designed the majority of female NPCs around the WLF base to be very androgynous and inline with the male physiques, and then we have Lev. I skipped the sex scene because it's entirely unneeded and is only there for one reason; I'm not giving Neil the satisfaction.

This game's second half is becoming downright comical. First we take a very visibly pregnant women out on patrol. Ok, pure nonsense, but I'll accept it. Now I'm out on patrol with a girl whose arm has just been amputated a few hours prior looking for her "brother". But not before hearing of his plight of gender identity within the Sepharites. The writing in this is so shit, transparent, and pathetically juvenile. I didn't think this at the end of the first half, but ever since it's hit Abby's section it's plummeted into mediocrity and ludicrousness. We have one teen love triangle with Ellie, Jesse and Dina, and then a second one with Abby, Owen, and Mel. Much of it deals with relationships that feel so ancillary and irrelevant to the core narrative and that exists solely to exist and nothing more.

This level of writing is comparable to a young teenage girl who's still in Jr. High and writing fantasy love fiction in her journals. Is Druckmann attempting to target that demographic? Because it largely feels that way with all the soap opera drama crap being pushed.

 

[sobaka770]

Oh this is gonna be a fun review when it comes out.

I like Joe, he puits in the effort, but his level of review and ability to understand games is usually quite average as can be seen by the humor in his skits.

He literally cannot comprehend that his anger is exactly what he should feel as Ellie goes on her revenge quest. So it's a resounding success then?

 

[rofif]

In one of the trailers, Ellie gets grabbed on arm by Joel.... "You thought I would let You do this alone". And the same scene is in final game but with different character. he even says the same thing.
The trailer was misleading on purpose to make us think Joel is bigger in the game... is this alright to fake me out with a trailer and then having it be completely false?

 

[ZZZZ]

Makes perfect sense. Neil is designing her character in such a way to appease and pander to the trans community. If you pay attention, he's also designed the majority of female NPCs around the WLF base to be very androgynous and inline with the male physiques, and then we have Lev. I skipped the sex scene because it's entirely unneeded and is only there for one reason; I'm not giving Neil the satisfaction.

This game's second half is becoming downright comical. First we take a very visibly pregnant women out on patrol. Ok, pure nonsense, but I'll accept it. Now I'm out on patrol with a girl whose arm has just been amputated a few hours prior looking for her "brother". But not before hearing of his plight of gender identity within the Sepharites. The writing in this is so shit, transparent, and pathetically juvenile. I didn't think this at the end of the first half, but ever since it's hit Abby's section it's plummeted into mediocrity and ludicrousness. We have one teen love triangle with Ellie, Jesse and Dina, and then a second one with Abby, Owen, and Mel. Much of it deals with relationships that feel so ancillary and irrelevant to the core narrative and that exists solely to exist and nothing more.

This level of writing is comparable to a young teenage girl who's still in Jr. High and writing fantasy love fiction in her journals. Is Druckmann attempting to target that demographic? Because it largely feels that way with all the soap opera drama crap being pushed.

Yeah, the teenage soap opera between the love triangle Owen-Mel-Abby just made me lose whatever faith i had left in the story by that point, and the worst part is that the romantic dates and sex scene happens after the cliff hanger on the theater.

 

[ZZZZ]

In one of the trailers, Ellie gets grabbed on arm by Joel.... "You thought I would let You do this alone". And the same scene is in final game but with different character. he even says the same thing.
The trailer was misleading on purpose to make us think Joel is bigger in the game... is this alright to fake me out with a trailer and then having it be completely false?

It's a disgusting practice, and they lied about not having to kill a dog as well.

 

[rofif]

It's a disgusting practice, and they lied about not having to kill a dog as well.

The dog thing is also stupid bullshit. Why even lie.

But the joel thing? He is long dead before that cutcene when she turns around and it's not him but it is him in trailer. Her face even is as surprised as it is in the trailer. It's just trailer bait.
Edit: lol apparently I've not even reached 2nd part of the game and I am already bored few times...

 

[scalman]

Noooo, I wouldn't want to strip the characters of their last feminine features.

At least abby look much better skinnier and with short hair that piggy tail was ugly looking.

 

[Optimistic Gamer]

Since it does contain spoilers but I still feel like it belongs on GAF as we have a lot of these kinds of people here:

The Last of Us Part 2 - the incel review (spoilers)

I’m sitting in my bedroom, surrounded by Fight Club posters, and I’m ready to play The Last of Us Part 2.

www.vg247.com

 

[xrnzaaas]

My man...

 

[MayauMiao]

 

[scalman]

Is he being abby?

 

[HotPocket69]

Man speaks the truth.

We get it Joe.

His review is already basically late and DOA. People really still watch his stuff?

 

[ZZZZ]

Since it does contain spoilers but I still feel like it belongs on GAF as we have a lot of these kinds of people here:

The Last of Us Part 2 - the incel review (spoilers)

I’m sitting in my bedroom, surrounded by Fight Club posters, and I’m ready to play The Last of Us Part 2.

www.vg247.com

Wait...is this actually real?
I guess that's one way to get easy clicks.

 

[PanzerAzel]

We get it Joe.

His review is already basically late and DOA. People really still watch his stuff?

Don’t know.

I’m not a subscriber of his, but take a gander at his reviews now and again. I enjoy his shtick and childish antics, he’s obnoxious but can be amusing at times.

 

[PanzerAzel]

Wait...is this actually real?
I guess that's one way to get easy clicks.

It’s satire.

 

[Strategize]

So here's my take on the ending.

"Revenge Bad" "Violence bad" sounds so simplistic, the game is about perspective and empathy.

Ellie feels like Joel took her purpose in life at the end of the first game, she feels this is a massive injustice to her, yet, while not agreeing with it, learned to try to let it go.

Abby commits another massive injustice, brought about as a consequence to Joel's first injustice. It's not until she finally has Abby at her mercy and having the chance to kill her, that, once again, while not agreeing with what she did, learned to try and let it go. She finally feels like if she can try to forgive the man who started the cycle, she can try to forgive Abby to end it.

There's also in extra parallel here. Abby is in the a similar position as Joel was in the first game, she's no longer fighting just to fight, she just wants Lev as Joel wanted Ellie. So in theory, Ellie isn't just fighting Abby, she's fighting...well. Joel in a way, his mindset at least.

 

[Guilty_AI]

I got to abby's part and realized they retconed some aspects of the ending of the first game.
In part 2, Marlene is all serious and angry at the doctor for wanting to kill a child, and goes to tell joel while apparently knowing he won't like it.
In the first one though, she was litterally all happy and smiles while telling Joel, she clearly feels nothing about killing Ellie and clearly doesn't realize Joel wouldn't want her dead.
They're probably trying to make the fireflies more relatable, since they want so bad for Joel to be the villain.
forget it

 

[Strategize]

I got to abby's part and realized they retconed some aspects of the ending of the first game.
In part 2, Marlene is all serious and angry at the doctor for wanting to kill a child, and goes to tell joel while apparently knowing he won't like it.
In the first one though, she was litterally all happy and smiles while telling Joel, she clearly feels nothing about killing Ellie and clearly doesn't realize Joel wouldn't want her dead.
They probably trying to make the fireflies more relatable, since they want so bad for Joel to be the villain.

Completely wrong, listen to the hospital tape recorders in part 1. She clearly doesn't feel good about having to kill Ellie, there's inner conflict, but she feels this is how it must be.

 

[scalman]

Real person

 

[Guilty_AI]

Completely wrong, listen to the hospital tape recorders in part 1. She clearly doesn't feel good about having to kill Ellie, there's inner conflict, but she feels this is how it must be.

Just rewatched the part where she told Joel, seems i really was remembering it wrongly : P. I guess i just remembered her as an asshole in my memory. Still, i feel like her not letting him speak to her still felt too forced, why couldn't they wait a bit? Its not like the apocalypse could get any worse in a few more hours.

 

[ZZZZ]

So here's my take on the ending.

"Revenge Bad" "Violence bad" sounds so simplistic, the game is about perspective and empathy.

Ellie feels like Joel took her purpose in life at the end of the first game, she feels this is a massive injustice to her, yet, while not agreeing with it, learned to try to let it go.

Abby commits another massive injustice, brought about as a consequence to Joel's first injustice. It's not until she finally has Abby at her mercy and having the chance to kill her, that, once again, while not agreeing with what she did, learned to try and let it go. She finally feels like if she can try to forgive the man who started the cycle, she can try to forgive Abby to end it.

There's also in extra parallel here. Abby is in the a similar position as Joel was in the first game, she's no longer fighting just to fight, she just wants Lev as Joel wanted Ellie. So in theory, Ellie isn't just fighting Abby, she's fighting...well. Joel in a way, his mindset at least.

That's the only part of the game that made sense to me, not the whole melodramatic teenage catfight, just the part about Ellie finally moving on from the bad situation she found herself in.

 

[Shantae]

As much as I've bashed on this game, and hate how the story sounds, it makes me wish redbox still offered games to rent, or that rental stores were still a thing.

I don't want to give them my money for this game, but as someone who is a critic at heart (I know, that's a weird thing to be), I like to play things to get an opinion on them for better or worse. It's part of why I spend so much damn money on games. I like being part of the conversation I guess. I want to see and try for myself if the gameplay is actually good, because a lot of people say that that is a good part of it. I really should start my own review site or something, and stop wasting all that time playing shitty games for no reason, lol.

 

[Explosive Zombie]

Of course you would, because you can't possibly fathom someone having a different opinion than you. Hell, Joe said it best in the video. Rewatch it from :36 onwards.

My problem isn't someone disagreeing, it's how and why they disagree. Joel has never been a very good critic, even if you liked his game reviews all you'd need to do is watch a single movie review or Game of Thrones episode review or whatever else to get the idea he wasn't the brightest bulb. The second he started talking about what a "beloved" character Joel was I knew it was the same old crap. Anyone elevating Joel to icon status didn't really get the first game or the world it was presenting to us. No matter how much some of us liked or related to Joel many of us knew the second a sequel was announced Joel would need to get his comeuppance for the things he had done. Others apparently rationalized all his actions and turned him into some flawless hero, a really boring way to look at the events/characters in the first game, taking a nuanced game and making it fit your binary morality ideas.

There are objective standards of good writing you could look to. I think this story would fail those as well.

Tell you what, when I finish the game and if I’m wrong, I’ll come back and grovel at your feet.

Maybe you ought to link me to some authoritative place listing these objective standards of good writing, eh? There aren't objective standards, there are generally agreed upon standards that are often ignored by some of the best writers.

 

[scalman]

Yh joel was f ked in first game but he knew what he was doing and why. And i would do same too. But then you need to live with that. So it was stupid for him just help some stranger and go to her camp then. That was so rookie mistake that he would not do with his experience. And Tommy for sure wouldnt. It was like catching kid into trap and telling your names.

 

[Oddvintagechap]

Glad I decided to avoid the game after reading what happened to Joel. Such a fucking shame that the series turned into this.

Skipping around the cutscene video that was posted, what the hell is up with Abby? At times her arms are ridiculously massive and others she looks more like a woman? Is there a massive timeskip to explain the loss of muscle mass? Seems like an odd thing for Naughty Dog to fuck up.

People that bitch about joel’s scene make no sense. Joel would have done the same to anyone that killed Ellie. Fuck Joel. The actual character done dirty is Tommy.

Yes she bulks up to hunt down joel. Later she loses weight cause she is no longer in a military compound, cause she gets captured.

All that SJW crying is childish.

I personally hate the game. The game is 5 out of 5 in many categories. The writing made me hate a character, made me understand a character, but the story has ZERO pay off for me.

 

[Strategize]

Yeah anyone going on about "disrespecting the fanbase" and talking about how beloved Joel is just an irrelevant non opinion to me.

Joel is so much more interesting and complex than an "icon". How people feel about him doesn't change the story. They actually respected him quite a bit in this game, I mean the game literally ends with us learning that Ellie wanted to forgive him, which fucking broke me. Just like the space-shuttle scene also broke me.

His scenes with Ellie are some of the best in the game.

 

[ZZZZ]

As much as I've bashed on this game, and hate how the story sounds, it makes me wish redbox still offered games to rent, or that rental stores were still a thing.

I don't want to give them my money for this game, but as someone who is a critic at heart (I know, that's a weird thing to be), I like to play things to get an opinion on them for better or worse. It's part of why I spend so much damn money on games. I like being part of the conversation I guess. I want to see and try for myself if the gameplay is actually good, because a lot of people say that that is a good part of it. I really should start my own review site or something, and stop wasting all that time playing shitty games for no reason, lol.

My perspective on gameplay:
First it's important to note that i'm a PC player first, consoles second.
When i have choice to play a shooter, either first person or third, i'll pick the mouse and keyboard at 60+fps, some games like MGS and Dishonored i can get to 120-144fps. So when someone tells me the gun play is great on TLOU2 with a controller at 30fps, it baffles me. Even though the controls are awful, the overall combat is not bad, but it does get repetitive especially because TLOU2 lasts over 20+ hours.
My favorite part about the whole thing is inventory management, but even that has it's problems because the game will force you to keep opening drawers and going inside every building and spending hours looking for loot so you can craft stuff to kill enemies.

 

[scalman]

Im doing second run now and i thought if i wouldnt like gameplay to do again same stuff i will stop but no i was loving it even though i know everything there i love it. And i will skip most cutscenes in first part where its more depressing but i will do all gameplay and will upgrade all further and will watch later cinematics when they more cool . Its really good and im finding im now even more enjoying fight scenes as im better now and know how to do stuff same time i can try now do it in different way lets say pistol with silencer as i have that from start i can play now more like that .

 

[Holdfing]

I scratched my head at the stupid writing, but what really upset me was Mel. "Any day now" pregnant woman cleared ("barely", her words) for active duty (WHO? WHY?), gets ambushed minutes after leaving base, because it's the fucking apocalypse out there with cults and shit, climbs up ladders, jumps off stuff. And then instead of pleading for her and her unborn child's life she attacks Ellie. Just so Abby can be a better person for sparing Dina later?

Also, liking dogs is such a low bar to be a not so bad person. Most people like dogs. I like dogs. Fucking Hitler liked dogs.

Edit: Seraphite DLC incoming, mark my words.