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[ZZZZ]

It’s satire.

who is it making fun off though? I'm not reading it. Is it making fun of the people that didn't like it or is it making fun of the people calling the ones that didn't like it incels, nazis, bigots, etc..
Such a weird post to make.

 

[scalman]

Yh mel all pregnant going full soldier mode was so stupid and shes kinda yuck looking anyway that face something wrong with it . But then i wouldnt wanna live in thst kinda comunity where you like slave just following orders day to day risking your life for some reason that not make sense to you everyday. I would just go full lonely survivor there on higheest building with all solar all tvs all consoles cameras i could get . That would be some life there.

 

[REE Machine]

The issue isn't that Joel died. It was never that Joel died. The issue has always been *how* he died as the entire scene he acts completely counter to his character. He isn't one to immediately open up and trust folks like that. He wouldn't put himself in a situation like that. There are a thousand ways that they could have had Abby and her crew kill off Joel in a manner that doesn't force him to act out of character. Force him in a situation where he runs into a dead end after being chased by Infected. Have him get killed by infected after Abby and Co. make noise. Have him explore and suddenly get attacked or captured and *then* tortured/killed.

Any and all of these ideas (and far more if you look at TLOU2 reddit, discords, and other social media/forum posts) are better than what they did.

Honestly I think living in Jackson and his age was to do with it. He lost his grit and turned soft living a comfortable life in Jackson with Ellie. I think a part of him wanted to move on and try to trust people again because they had already recruited so many to Jackson, as well as his age caught up with him, he lost his killer instinct and grit,

 

[scalman]

I thought he wasnt living with ellie there as they showed she lived alone and joel had his big crib there for himself.

 

[Strategize]

Honestly I think living in Jackson and his age was to do with it. He lost his grit and turned soft living a comfortable life in Jackson with Ellie. I think a part of him wanted to move on and try to trust people again because they had already recruited so many to Jackson, as well as his age caught up with him, he lost his killer instinct and grit,

Plus ya know, there was no other choice.
A) Hold up and die.
B) Try to make it back to Jackson, get lost in the blizzard and have the horses not make it and die.
C) Take a chance on Abby's suggestion.

They literally ran through the options in the scene.

 

[REE Machine]

Plus ya know, there was no other choice.
A) Hold up and die.
B) Try to make it back to Jackson, get lost in the blizzard and have the horses not make it and die.
C) Take a chance on Abby's suggestion.

They literally ran through the options in the scene.

Yep and they were pressed for time
Because of how many infected were swarming them, even though joel shoulnd have helped her he didnt know she had bad intentions because she also helped them survive in the mean time while tommy got the escape route ready, it was a colossal error and poor timing that also did joel in

 

[lock2k]

There are a few scenes that are absolutely pointless and hurt her more than help her characterization (such as the completely pointless gratuitous sex scene), but I will admit that I found her infinitely more interesting than Ellie. Hell, while I am on the topic, this isn't even Ellie! This is some imposter wearing her skin as a costume. She acts completely counter to how she acted in the first game. She has somehow become even more stupid than her 14 year old self, her first reaction to joel's death is to right a fucking poem (which isn't something TLOU1 Ellie would have done), and the majority of her dialogue with Dina and Jesse is vapid bullshit. She has become, in every sense of the word, a stereotype.

Also I still don't know why they made Abby look like a roided out man. Still makes zero sense even after playing the game. What is so wrong with making her physique more like Nadine from Uncharted 4? Or hell, make her look more like Tessa from TLOU1!

Neil is probably closeted and gets off with this idea. lol

 

[PanzerAzel]

who is it making fun off though? I'm not reading it. Is it making fun of the people that didn't like it or is it making fun of the people calling the ones that didn't like it incels, nazis, bigots, etc..
Such a weird post to make.

To me it reads as if it’s mocking those who are claiming people incels, Nazis, etc, who don’t like it.

 

[B-universe]

(...)
Also, liking dogs is such a low bar to be a not so bad person. Most people like dogs. I like dogs. Fucking Hitler liked dogs.

That's actually following a common piece of writing advice to the letter, perhaps even too literally. Famous author and writing coach James Scott Bell even calls it the "Peth the Dog" moment! He prescribes it as a necessary story beat, because, " we are sympathetically drawn to characters who don’t only think of themselves. A Pet-the-Dog moment intensifies that feeling for the reader."

Another trick Naughty Dog's writing team seems to have used is a version of what's called a "As you know, Bob". In this "technique of filling readers in on basic story details by having two characters who already know these details talk about them amongst themselves". I am told Lev, the trans kid, turns to Abby and shoots "Do you want to ask me about it?". The variation here is that Abby is made to be ignorant, just so the opportunity to be filled in can arise, all for the benefit of the player.

 

[ZZZZ]

Honestly I think living in Jackson and his age was to do with it. He lost his grit and turned soft living a comfortable life in Jackson with Ellie. I think a part of him wanted to move on and try to trust people again because they had already recruited so many to Jackson, as well as his age caught up with him, he lost his killer instinct and grit,

They literally organize patrols to look for danger, and according to Jesse, Joel always gets on edge when it's Ellie's time to patrols, he knows the dangers and what's at risk.
You don't just lose it after 30 years of literally surviving through violence, especially if he has to use his skills like we see when he saves Abby.

 

[Nymphae]

 

[rofif]

Plus ya know, there was no other choice.
A) Hold up and die.
B) Try to make it back to Jackson, get lost in the blizzard and have the horses not make it and die.
C) Take a chance on Abby's suggestion.

They literally ran through the options in the scene.

What they did is not so unresonable.
They saved a girl in trouble. And they live in a big community so maybe they are less careful and friendly. These people are just monsters

 

[ZZZZ]

"Hello strangers armed to the teeth wearing patches"
"Btw we live just a couple of blocks away from here why don't you come in and restock, i don't know what your intentions are and why are you so close to our village in the middle of nowhere, but come in, mi casa su casa"

 

[rofif]

OMG I just found out that I am barely half way throught (day 3, aquarium).... This already should've been the whole game. Do they really go through all 3 days again as this shitty fucking character in order to make You like that monster ?
What I've played is already exceptionally drawn out and boring..., and most of it makes little sense.

 

[ZZZZ]

OMG I just found out that I am barely half way throught (day 3, aquarium).... This already should've been the whole game. Do they really go through all 3 days again as this shitty fucking character in order to make You like that monster ?

They reward you with a couple of dates with her hunk, and a very very spicy scene.

 

[Nymphae]

 

[Nikana]

My problem isn't someone disagreeing, it's how and why they disagree. Joel has never been a very good critic, even if you liked his game reviews all you'd need to do is watch a single movie review or Game of Thrones episode review or whatever else to get the idea he wasn't the brightest bulb. The second he started talking about what a "beloved" character Joel was I knew it was the same old crap. Anyone elevating Joel to icon status didn't really get the first game or the world it was presenting to us. No matter how much some of us liked or related to Joel many of us knew the second a sequel was announced Joel would need to get his comeuppance for the things he had done. Others apparently rationalized all his actions and turned him into some flawless hero, a really boring way to look at the events/characters in the first game, taking a nuanced game and making it fit your binary morality ideas.



Maybe you ought to link me to some authoritative place listing these objective standards of good writing, eh? There aren't objective standards, there are generally agreed upon standards that are often ignored by some of the best writers.

Getting killed with a gold club for a cheap revenge plot with no substance by a character that has no real development or exposition isnt exactly getting his punishment. He doesn't even know who Abby was or why she was acting the way she did.

 

[Infested Goblin]

I present you one of the voice actors in tlou2. WTF Naughty Dog

 

[scalman]

Why joel saved abby i have no idea . Just why? Then ok he saves her life and she kills him just like that? So she would die there but was saved and that ment nothing still? And then later she goes into so sweet side with those kids killing her own people for kids like its nothing.
but in real life people can be like that and thats why i liked it with time i understood reasons why she was fcked up and just wanted to find some purpose in life and she found it. Same as joel did in first game.
So it goes full circle

 

[Strategize]

All this is bullshit to me. No character is black and white so what. Abby still gets called out by other characters for being a POS despite trying to do good, that doesn't seem artificial to me, just different characters looking at things different ways.

 

[rofif]

I present you one of the voice actors in tlou2. WTF Naughty Dog

What actor is that? looks like a white boy in the picture

 

[wzy]

It just seems like a Walking Dead moment that got out of hand. Kind of the problem with ND's constant, shameless plagiarism, I guess, is that you never know what will land and what won't. Oopsie!

 

[ZZZZ]

I present you one of the voice actors in tlou2. WTF Naughty Dog

Stand up fella.
Great role model for the younger generation.

 

[REE Machine]

They literally organize patrols to look for danger, and according to Jesse, Joel always gets on edge when it's Ellie's time to patrols, he knows the dangers and what's at risk.
You don't just lose it after 30 years of literally surviving through violence, especially if he has to use his skills like we see when he saves Abby.

I think he lost his grit because he trust to much esp with al the people who came to jackson etc. And of course he will be on edge he lost his first daughter to the pandemic, joel got soft but granted the situation sucked as well because there was no other option at that time, go with someone you just met where they both helped each other or die to the infected

 

[Codswallop_]

Since it does contain spoilers but I still feel like it belongs on GAF as we have a lot of these kinds of people here:

The Last of Us Part 2 - the incel review (spoilers)

I’m sitting in my bedroom, surrounded by Fight Club posters, and I’m ready to play The Last of Us Part 2.

www.vg247.com

Talk about trying way too hard to deflect any criticism. Cringe.

 

[Holdfing]

That's actually following a common piece of writing advice to the letter, perhaps even too literally. Famous author and writing coach James Scott Bell even calls it the "Peth the Dog" moment! He prescribes it as a necessary story beat, because, " we are sympathetically drawn to characters who don’t only think of themselves. A Pet-the-Dog moment intensifies that feeling for the reader."

Another trick Naughty Dog's writing team seems to have used is a version of what's called a "As you know, Bob". In this "technique of filling readers in on basic story details by having two characters who already know these details talk about them amongst themselves". I am told Lev, the trans kid, turns to Abby and shoots "Do you want to ask me about it?". The variation here is that Abby is made to be ignorant, just so the opportunity to be filled in can arise, all for the benefit of the player.

Didn't work on me... Maybe I don't like dogs as much as others?

What actor is that? looks like a white boy in the picture

That's Lev, according to IMDB.

 

[ZZZZ]

I think he lost his grit because he trust to much esp with al the people who came to jackson etc. And of course he will be on edge he lost his first daughter to the pandemic, joel got soft but granted the situation sucked as well because there was no other option at that time, go with someone you just met where they both helped each other or die to the infected

If you really believe there was no other option, we probably won't get anywhere. Let's agree to disagree. On a game that wants me to take it seriously, bad directing and story telling destroys it for me, it's like the way they handle stitches in the Lore. Joel gets impaled in game 1(the worst scene to me in the game) and they added a bunch of scenes like that in game 2, apparently all you need is stitches, close the wound and magic happens.
All these scenes are complete avoidable and unnecessary, it's just there for shock value and the casual audience loves it, they cry and get worried while i just laugh at the whole thing.

 

[scalman]

So could abby be pregnant from owen? Where ellie went after ending? Visit tommy? Or she will go lonely wolf now and find her own kid boy to take care of like all others did?
imagine ellie finding little joel out there with his little knife scared and hopeless and takes him with her.

 

[REE Machine]

If you really believe there was no other option, we probably won't get anywhere. Let's agree to disagree. On a game that wants me to take it seriously, bad directing and story telling destroys it for me, it's like the way they handle stitches in the Lore. Joel gets impaled in game 1(the worst scene to me in the game) and they added a bunch of scenes like that in game 2, apparently all you need is stitches, close the wound and magic happens.
All these scenes are complete avoidable and unnecessary, it's just there for shock value and the casual audience loves it, they cry and get worried while i just laugh at the whole thing.

What other options did they have?

 

[MiguelItUp]

I have to admit, to each their own as always of course. But I have to admit that I'm legit confused by the people that have beat it and completed it and are like, "Man, this game is remarkable. This story... This game is untouchable, it's Naughty Dogs best. They've set the bar!"

This game is not awful by any means, but the story, writing, direction, and characters are by far it's weakest point. At least IMO.

Now genuine question. Do y'all think those with this opinion are hardcore fanboys, TLOU fans, or just folks with bizarre opinions on the topic? I'm completely unbiased when it comes to consoles as I typically love PC most and I've loved Playstation and Xbox at different times. But to say this game's story and writing is remarkable? Really?

I mean, if you like it you like it, if you hate it, you hate it. Nothing else matters. But it's still wild to me, lmao.

 

[scalman]

Maybe you just played it with negativity in mind or hated everything after first part. Its so much better then first part in terms of story telling and in terms everything else.
I finished it yesterday and i dont feel any negativity for any characters after end. And im playing it again well will continue after work. Its just on another level but only if you take it as it is not as you wanted it to be. Its just hits so deep. But then again some people read books and some read twitter to get smarter. So different people out there.

 

[Strategize]

One criticism I do have is how censored the Ellie torturing Nora scene is.

This is big moment for Ellie, and for us as the audience. It needed to be way more brutal, to sell how far Ellie is going. I mean Ashley's acting still sold it in the next scene where she's shirtless, but I should've questioning been Ellie more.

 

[Captain Hero]

I have to admit, to each their own as always of course. But I have to admit that I'm legit confused by the people that have beat it and completed it and are like, "Man, this game is remarkable. This story... This game is untouchable, it's Naughty Dogs best. They've set the bar!"

This game is not awful by any means, but the story, writing, direction, and characters are by far it's weakest point. At least IMO.

Now genuine question. Do y'all think those with this opinion are hardcore fanboys, TLOU fans, or just folks with bizarre opinions on the topic? I'm completely unbiased when it comes to consoles as I typically love PC most and I've loved Playstation and Xbox at different times. But to say this game's story and writing is remarkable? Really?

I mean, if you like it you like it, if you hate it, you hate it. Nothing else matters. But it's still wild to me, lmao.

people can like and say their opinions no matter what you like or not .. the world isn’t just about you boy , a game you don’t like that doesn’t mean it sucks to others! .. this game is a remarkable not to you but to others ..

It’s so simple .. don’t be shocked

 

[ZZZZ]

Its just hits so deep. But then again some people read books and some read twitter to get smarter. So different people out there.

Good to know where you stand with opinions that are different than yours.

 

[Codswallop_]

Maybe you just played it with negativity in mind or hated everything after first part. Its so much better then first part in terms of story telling and in terms everything else.
I finished it yesterday and i dont feel any negativity for any characters after end. And im playing it again well will continue after work. Its just on another level but only if you take it as it is not as you wanted it to be. Its just hits so deep. But then again some people read books and some read twitter to get smarter. So different people out there.

This is so pompous and condescending, lmfao

 

[MiguelItUp]

people can like and say their opinions no matter what you like or not .. the world isn’t just about you boy , a game you don’t like that doesn’t mean it sucks to others! .. this game is a remarkable not to you but to others ..

It’s so simple .. don’t be shocked

Correct. At 36 years old, I'm well aware, thanks. I was just curious to know what others thought, clearly others with a similar opinion to mine. Chill.

 

[scalman]

This was so good

 

[Captain Hero]

Correct. At 36 years old, I'm well aware, thanks. I was just curious to know what others thought. Chill.

you don’t have to say your age .. just chill

 

[MiguelItUp]

you don’t have to say your age .. just chill

Well, "boy" sounded pretty condescending, so I just wanted to share that I'm very much an adult asking an opinionated question, lmao.

 

[Guilty_AI]

Now genuine question. Do y'all think those with this opinion are hardcore fanboys, TLOU fans, or just folks with bizarre opinions on the topic? I'm completely unbiased when it comes to consoles as I typically love PC most and I've loved Playstation and Xbox at different times. But to say this game's story and writing is remarkable? Really?

My answer is all three of them.
Its far from the first time i see people overpraising a game's story (often belonging to exclusive first party games) that really wasn't all that great. Even TLoU1 wasn't all that great either in terms of narrative. It was good, but definitely not a masterpiece.

With TLoU2, the game tries really hard to be deep and meaningful, but i often felt like the writers thought i was stupid or something.
That scene with the doctor saving the zebra was so laughably bad. "See this guy? He's so fun and good and... Look! He's reuniting an animal's mother with its child! He's such a great person- OH NO! he's the doctor Joel killed! You should feel bad!"

Its like the game thinks i'm some sociopath that doesn't realize the people i kill could have family, friends and shit. Bitch, i know that, you don't need to show me Abby playing with dogs for me to realize she's a human that could have good sides to too, much less force me through a long boring ass segment with plot points i don't care about. There are other games that hammer that point in much more well executed ways.

And knowing how this games ends, i can see Druckmann doesn't actually understand what cycles of revenge and violence are all about, unless the point is something else i'm missing.

 

[scalman]

Yes opinions sure. Why games are made ? To enjoy them have good time. To pick right game for you and enjoy it. If you cant pick game that you like and just playing it to hate it or maybe probably not even playing it just watching someone playing it so you can be involved too in discusion that wont make any meaning or point in the end.
Im enjoying games that i play. Thats how it made me feel. Why you pick games you wont like and still play the. Just to join the haters club? Seems like best spend time. Why waste time? We all die soon anyway.

 

[Vaelka]

Wtf was with that pregnant ladyfriend of Abby?
Who the fuck lets a pregnant woman that deep into the pregnancy out on the frontlines xD, she gets into a freaking car accident even and everyone including her just walks off. Lets be real here she'd have a miscarriage like five hundred times over in that mission.
Dina falling through the window too and just walking it off, I dunno why they keep doing shit like this in games and movies that are meant to be taken very super ultra seriously. Same in the Tomb Raider games how Lara takes fatal damage but just walks it off and forgets about it.

 

[scalman]

Wtf was with that pregnant ladyfriend of Abby?
Who the fuck lets a pregnant woman that deep into the pregnancy out on the frontlines xD, she gets into a freaking car accident even and everyone including her just walks off. Lets be real here she'd have a miscarriage like five hundred times over in that mission.
Dina falling through the window too and just walking it off, I dunno why they keep doing shit like this in games and movies that are meant to be taken very super ultra seriously. Same in the Tomb Raider games how Lara takes fatal damage but just walks it off and forgets about it.

Because game maybe and not real life.

 

[ZZZZ]

Because game maybe and not real life.

Too bad it's set on a realistic setting, well at least it's supposed to, but it's only realistic when it's convenient to the plot.

 

[Vaelka]

Because game maybe and not real life.

Don't be a dumbass.
TLOU takes itself VERY seriously and they do try and simulate real life as much as possible...

I personally prefer games that are unrealistic, I love myself some Animu waifus and super ultra stylistic combat ala DMC5. But it's about expectations, and TLOU set this expectation that it was going to be super realistic.
Same with Tomb Raider, they marketed it super heavily as this gritty and realistic reboot but it was even less realistic than the original really.

 

[HoegLaw]

Its like the game thinks i'm some sociopath that doesn't realize the people i kill could have family, friends and shit. Bitch, i know that, you don't need to show me Abby playing with dogs for me to realize she's a human that could have good sides to too, much less force me through a long boring ass segment with plot points i don't care about. There are other games that hammer that point in much more well executed ways.

And knowing how this games ends, i can see Druckmann doesn't actually understand what cycles of revenge and violence are all about, unless the point is something else i'm missing.

This is actually my most fundamental criticism of the game's structure. It is condescendingly obvious that the people you are murdering are people too, and to then spend a dozen hours backstopping that point is an error that absolutely shatters the momentum of the game...for nothing. It's CW level storytelling that can't even get out of it's own way (the implication of Abby's plotline is, of course, that she, Owen (and to some extent, Mel) have been made into better people through their revenge, for instance).

It's a narrative mess, and requires the characters to jump between binary revenge/no revenge states seemingly at random.

 

[ZZZZ]

Don't be a dumbass.
TLOU takes itself VERY seriously and they do try and simulate real life as much as possible...

I personally prefer games that are unrealistic, I love myself some Animu waifus and super ultra stylistic combat ala DMC5. But it's about expectations, and TLOU set this expectation that it was going to be super realistic.
Same with Tomb Raider, they marketed it super heavily as this gritty and realistic reboot but it was even less realistic than the original really.

It's the point i made with magic stitches, i just can't help but laugh at this stuff on a game like this.

 

[MiguelItUp]

Yes opinions sure. Why games are made ? To enjoy them have good time. To pick right game for you and enjoy it. If you cant pick game that you like and just playing it to hate it or maybe probably not even playing it just watching someone playing it so you can be involved too in discusion that wont make any meaning or point in the end.
Im enjoying games that i play. Thats how it made me feel. Why you pick games you wont like and still play the. Just to join the haters club? Seems like best spend time. Why waste time? We all die soon anyway.

I find opinions to be interesting, hell, everyone should. So I was curious to know what others think. It's always interesting to hear WHY a person comes to that particular opinion about something. Rather than just respond with, "OPINIONS EXIST, HURR DURR." Yes, clearly they do. But WHY do you feel the way you do about it? I always find it fascinating, especially when people go into details regarding how or why they feel they way they do about it. Especially when it's SO divisive. Just so weird to ask questions and people respond defensively. Christ it's just a game, I'm not berating your family, lmao.

 

[joe_zazen]

I thought both girls looks best in last scene , new abby's haircut much better similar to ellies, just great,wonder would ellie go against her city her people like that how abby did. They should made abby in that haircut trough all game or like make it option on second run maybe. But we cant even change their clothes now? We could in first game bags too.
And controller speaker is not used this time as it was in remaster.
And if anything abby is becoming more and more likeable with time so guess it depends on everyones feelings about all this situation, at least i see her and her change later in game is just great.

In the first iteration, players did not like abbey and had no sympathy; it took many rewrites to get to this point—including having Ellie kill Abbies dog, which is one of the oldest story cliches used to garner sympathy and/or engender hate.

Does any of the ‘get player to sympathise with abbey’ writinf feel contrived to you? Or did their focus testing and iteration work, and you find yourself moving the hate meter towards ellie and the sympathy meter towards abbie in a natural way?

 

[The Mad Draklor]

The issue isn't that Joel died. It was never that Joel died. The issue has always been *how* he died as the entire scene he acts completely counter to his character. He isn't one to immediately open up and trust folks like that. He wouldn't put himself in a situation like that. There are a thousand ways that they could have had Abby and her crew kill off Joel in a manner that doesn't force him to act out of character. Force him in a situation where he runs into a dead end after being chased by Infected. Have him get killed by infected after Abby and Co. make noise. Have him explore and suddenly get attacked or captured and *then* tortured/killed.

Any and all of these ideas (and far more if you look at TLOU2 reddit, discords, and other social media/forum posts) are better than what they did.

Joel: "Hey strangers! Allow me to give you my name and our hideout's exact location!"

I also found it hilarious when Joel asked them they act as if he said something weird and did not put his guard up. It's funny how this is being defended as a "lapse in judgement" when it's really a complete retcon of his established character.