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All The Last of Us 2 leaks/spoilers in here and nowhere else.

Ixiah

Banned
Miles Bennet Dyson is the reason the world ends, he gets lectured about this by Sarah Connor in a speech that indicts men for their destructive creations.
Funny, what happend right afterwards ?
Her Son tells her hes embarrassed by her Feminist Speech, which in turn means, the writer.
What do Xena and Buffy have to do with anything?
You know, because i was wondering why you brought up Alien and not 2 Series that feature Female Main characters who beat up men by the Dozens and, unlike Aliens, feature Gay Characters, but are strangely well liked, contrary to so brave and stunning shows as Batwomen, who also features a Female Lead who beats up Men and has a Lesbian Main Character.....
Its almost like the Writing is the deciding factor if something is "Woke", because you are simply trying to tag on some far fetched conclusions to Movies who are simply well written Storys with Female Leads.
 
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What serious ramifications? The only possible ramification there would be on the world would be the Fireflies (a weakened group) trying to hunt them down, the rest is just business as usual everyone down their own thing.
How about the ramifications of their relationship being torn apart when she finds out why Joel killed the doctor and fireflies. That would been infinitely more interesting to watch. It would also be much more fitting for Joel to sacrifice himself for the greater good of humanity or even someone else.
 

Strategize

Member
How about the ramifications of their relationship being torn apart when she finds out why Joel killed the doctor and fireflies. That would been infinitely more interesting to watch. It would also be much more fitting for Joel to sacrifice himself for the greater good of humanity or even someone else.
How do you make an action adventure game out of that? What she finds out, gets super mad and goes off to find the fireflies again and sacrifices herself this time? It'd just be the first game again with a different ending.
 
Many will buy and then talk how much it sucks. Gamers love being angry when all they have to do is not buy it and play the many games that are better suited towards their tastes. Yes it will be divisive but RDR2 was divisive as well yet it sold like hotcakes and still does and is still one of the top ten played games on both X Box and PS4. Go on your system and look at most played and it is there. TLOU2 will have the same fate.
Call it what it was. The killing of an innocent child, to maybe save humanity. Maybe.
Yea and Joel lied to Ellie and killed everyone in the hospital because he didn't want to lose his fake daughter.
 
How do you make an action adventure game out of that? What she finds out, gets super mad and goes off to find the fireflies again and sacrifices herself this time? It'd just be the first game again with a different ending.
How do you make an action adventure game out of that? What she finds out, gets super mad and goes off to find the fireflies again and sacrifices herself this time? It'd just be the first game again with a different ending.
I don't know Im not a writer but at least if fully involves both protagonist throughout the whole game and at least it would complete Joel's arch. Filling in the details is the fucking hard part. How the fuck is a lame revenge story any better? It literally has no consequence on the entire setting of the game.
 

Strategize

Member
I don't know Im not a writer but at least if fully involves both protagonist throughout the whole game and at least it would complete Joel's arch. Filling in the details is the fucking hard part. How the fuck is a lame revenge story any better? It literally has no consequence on the entire setting of the game.
It doesn't necessarily need to have consequence on the setting. It's a character driven story about the arcs and relationships. The cure stuff was always just a decoy to tell a story about the cost of love between a father and his surrogate daughter.

Although to be fair, I wouldn't be so sure the cure stuff doesn't play a role in this story just yet. We still don't know the actual ending and there's a clip of Abby and Lev saying they're looking for the fireflies. We could very well see Ellie willing to slaughter the rest of the fireflies and not sacrifice herself just to get her revenge on Abby.
 
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It doesn't necessarily need to have consequence on the setting. It's a character driven story about the arcs and relationships. The cure stuff was always just a decoy to tell a story about the cost of love between a father and his surrogate daughter.

Although to be fair, I wouldn't be so sure the cure stuff doesn't play a role in this story just yet. We still don't know the actual ending and there's a clip of Abby and Lev saying they're looking for the fireflies. We could very well see Ellie willing to slaughter the rest of the fireflies and not sacrifice herself just to get her revenge on Abby.
Eh, either way I always thought this game didn't need a sequel. The story wrapped up quite nicely in the context of a character driven story. (aka Joel's choice at the end)
 

cormack12

Gold Member
They took a risk with the story. Which I respect a lot. But from the sounds of it - it doesn’t seem like it will match up to the first one. There was probably no way it could so that’s fine - they needed a reason to make a sequel and they found the reason. To show cycle of hate - it’s just probably not going to be as compelling as the first which has imo a simple but great story.

It was always going to be a hard ask. The whole introduction of Abby is just stupid. Unfortunately, I think the whole narrative has been built around social media reactions to three things

- the positive reaction to Ellie being lesbian
- the ending where people came up with the galaxy brain take that the protagonist of the entire game was actually the villain
- the lack of agency where you didn;t get the choice to leave the surgeon alive

Now, I don't particularly care about any of the above in TLOU original game, I do have issues with the creep into the second game around certain things.

- I don't have issues with whoever Ellie is dating or who she is close to, just the narcisstic way the studio chose to point and say 'Look, look at us breaking barriers', searching for acclaim. It feels cheap and manipulative, which I'm against in principle. But in terms of the game, doesn't really make a difference to how I play the game etc. romance narratives are bottom of the barrel in most games for me. Being able to date Sera with my female Inquisitior makes about as much difference to my experience as Kratos pumelling Aphrodite. It doesn't register as anything meaningful or important except a narrative beat. The people and sexuality are not important, the relationship and emotions therein are (e.g. Alexander/Hephaestion)
- The ending of the game has you grabbing your daughter 'in-name' and carrying her escaping. It mirrors the opening with Sarah for a reason. Joel hasn't changed, nor become more selfish or grown into a villain. With Sarah he was passive, with the surgeon he was not - although it was not through player agency, which was done on purpose. They've hinged everything on everyone buying into the 'Joel is a selfish piece of shit and liar', when Joel is actually well liked and a flawed 'hero'.
- Again there was a social media storm about how you should have been allowed to choose to leave the surgeons alive and it further confirmed Joel was an asshole. It was developed too far. All the people Joel has killed in the past as a hunter, none of them have come back or tried to cross paths? For basic revenge you had the perfect story with Marlene being the leader of the fireflies killed by Joel. That was a perfect setup - disregarding the antagonist sex/build etc. just for a minute, that specifically is the story beat. People are already sympathetic to Marlene who was basically forced to allow the operation to proceed. She cared for Ellie genuinely and had personal stakes due to the mother/friend connection. She was the rational, human face to the selfish decision that Joel made.

This whole thing just feels like a studio getting too self indulgent and thinking a loud online presence reflects their entire userbase who will lap up everything they produce. This 'feels' to me like the whole game is written around the perspective switch, and they are chasing fame and acclaim for being bold for trying it and pulling it off. Make no mistake, this studio is just waiting for universal praise, they can't even comprehend how divisive this will be and not in a good thought provoking way.

I mean who didn;t go the pictures wanting to see Jason Bourne die at the hands of Desh, then pick up the film from that view as he walks off and hunts down Nicky?
 
Even if she cheap shots him in the nsoe before the fight starts and counters the living fuck out of him? Its hard to use strength when you can even land a hit on your enemy. Sure weight classes matter but even if your an average joe how do you feel you'd fare against Holly Holms or Amanda Nunes...?

I beat the crap out of both of them but that's a long story..... :p
 
So I'm assuming you are talking to me here since we had that convo in the other thread. You should really learn to quote me though since you where calling me out in that thread to come here...

First off, roids aren't going to get you jacked all on their own. You are still going to need all the other sups and quality foods and a strict diet and exorcise. Especially given all the potential side effects of roids... Going to need lots of food to maintain that mass you pack on as well unless you have some sort of lifetime supply of roids...

Secondly, Anabolic steroids are what we are talking about here, not that crap you can get at Walmart that doesn't directly have anything to do with testosterone... and they are a banned substance. So they would already be very rare to find, even today let alone an apocalypse, especially in any significant quantities that you would need to keep taking for the years it would take a woman to bulk up that much...

Thirdly, and most important of all... The start of the cordyceps brain infection happened canonically in TLOU's timeline in 2013. This is when everything would have started to become abandoned. The events where the doctor, Abby's father, was killed by Joel happened in 2034... That's 21 years in-between. This is apparently what set Abby off on "her" revenge trip. So if we are to say she started looking for Steroids at this point... Anabolic steroids have an expiry date of about 1 year. But they actually last much longer. Around 5 years. Then they start to degrade immensely in potency... And this is ONLY if they where actually properly stored at room temperature... If they've separated due to cold temps, then they would degrade even faster. Average winter temp in Utah, just guessing that's where Abby was since that's where the fireflies where, is 21°. But even in the best case scenario, if it was in a fridge that was insulated... after 21 years the roids would certainly have lost all their potency. The oldest roids I've ever heard anyone taking was around 10 years. That's freaking ballsy as it is considering what taking spoiled roids could do to you, let alone fresh ones... But it was still already not very potent. So 21 years? Yeah, that's going to be a big ol nope from me dawg.

Are you claiming the body model they used for Abby is on anabolic steroids?

Funny, what happend right afterwards ?
Her Son tells her hes embarrassed by her Feminist Speech, which in turn means, the writer.

You know, because i was wondering why you brought up Alien and not 2 Series that feature Female Main characters who beat up men by the Dozens and, unlike Aliens, feature Gay Characters, but are strangely well liked, contrary to so brave and stunning shows as Batwomen, who also features a Female Lead who beats up Men and has a Lesbian Main Character.....
Its almost like the Writing is the deciding factor if something is "Woke", because you are simply trying to tag on some far fetched conclusions to Movies who are simply well written Storys with Female Leads.

No he doesn't. He just tells her we need to be a little more constructive. I'm not sure why we're interpreting one line of dialogue as being the writer's idea and another as not reflecting their feelings.

I didn't bring them up because I think they suck. I mean if you really care about writing why do you like Buffy and Xena?
 

Clear

CliffyB's Cock Holster
Apologies if this has been posted already.


I generally like the drinker, but unfortunately this video really isn't very good. It just seems like a lot of displaced resentment over Rian Johnson's work on TLJ.

Druckmann's liking for Anita Sarkeesian's rhetoric is somewhat concerning, but considering that was in-play at the time of the original and well-liked TLOU and its DLC is it really that big of a bellwether? Similarly this is the same author doing a follow-up, not a johnny-come-lately trying to put his stamp on an estasblished franchise with a dedicated fanbase.

Then of course there's the fact that this is a game, not a movie, and one noone has actually played yet. Which is kinda important given that even if the story was perfect and made everyone happy, if the gameplay and pacing stank, it'd still be a failure as a sequel.
 

Dacon

Banned
Things were fucked before and are still fucked, Joel doing what he did is just maintaining the current status quo as far as the bigger picture is concerned. But survival is very much feasible in pockets, as Tommy's town shows. The only real ramification would be for Joel and Ellie.

Yet in the first game they made a huge deal out of how vital it was for them to find a cure, and fast because of how badly things were deteriorating.

How do you make an action adventure game out of that? What she finds out, gets super mad and goes off to find the fireflies again and sacrifices herself this time? It'd just be the first game again with a different ending.

10 years after the events of TLOU, Joel and Ellie are living in Tommy's settlement, people have settled in and begun to find more of a sense of normalcy in their day to day lives. They've been forced to defend the settlement a few times from stray raiders, but more and more the threat of clickers has begun encroaching on their home, when it culminates into a full on battle against a horde of clickers that follows a band of raiders who intended to use them as a distraction to break into their home, unaware that they were attracting so many which eventually spelled their own doom.

A huge fight for survival ensues, eventually the the settlement beats them back. An argument ensues amongst the survivors, about how this happened because they've continued to ignore the clickers for so long that the problem has only continued to worsen. The debate continues to escalate with many asking exactly what they were supposed to do about this. Eventually one of the newer groups of survives to settle in this camp mentions that years back they had heard about the government setting up bases up north to study and solve the clicker problem, but eventually a group of the personnel at the base splintered off from them because of disagreements of how to handle the problem, eventually joining the Fireflies.

Some of the younger survivors begin making plans to find this base hoping that the government may have made some strides in their research. They make a plan to find old firefly camps to search for clues of the location of the base. Joel and Tommy object, saying that this base might not even still exist, or they may be struggling to deal with this problem just like they are. Ellie interjects, annoyed at how the conversation has brought up her suspicions about Joel, saying that it's a better plan than sitting around waiting to die at the hands of the Clickers. Determined to go with the group, Ellie prepares to set out, refusing to listen to Joel's objections. Joel, convinced that Ellie will do what she wants regardless of what he says, decides to go with them.

The group set out and find a few camps, bit of information here and their leading them from one to the next. Along the way they are set upon by a mad group of survivors, convinced that the codyceps are a plague released by the planet to punish humanity for destroying the planet via climate change and pollution. This cult is determined to wipe out the last remaining human settlements on the planet, viewing humanity as a scourge that doesn't deserve to survive. These cultists have survived off of cannibalization of their victims, growing even more insane.

During a big skirmish between the two groups, Joel and two other survivors are separated from Ellie and another group. They agree to meet up again at the next camp they had planned to visit. One of the young men Joel is stranded with begins to look up to Joel and idolize his survival skills and sheer determination against the odds. Ellie begins to warm up to one of the young female survivors whose guile and cleverness impresses her. While traveling to the next camp, Joel realizes where exactly they're heading. The camp where Ellie was going to go into surgery to help find a cure. Panicked, Joel increases his pace trying to beat Ellie there, afraid she will find incriminating evidence that will tear his story apart.

Obviously he fails, and Ellie discovers the aftermath of Joel's rampage against the fireflies, she reads old documents detailing the plans the fireflies had for her, and finds Marlene's remains. Joel catches up, and huge argument ensues between her and Joel, infuriated Ellie attacks Joel, and blames him for things getting worse in the world for everyone, because he couldn't let her go. Joel subdues Ellie, and Ellie's new female "friend" intervenes, pushing Joel away from Ellie. Ellie refuses to go any further with Joel, and the groups splinter even further, will Ellie's group going ahead on their own. Joel tails her group, followed by some of the other survivors including the young man who bonded with him, believing Joel to be the best leader to get them where they're going alive regardless of how they feel about what he did.

Along the way there are more ups and downs, with Ellie getting closer to her new friend, and Joel's followers learning more about survival from him, as they fight the cult that continues to interfere with their progress. Ellie and her group wind up destroying a cultist camp a few days away from the army base they're looking for is meant to be, killing many of them who were planning to attack the base losing some of her own people in the process. According to documents they had found in the camp, were planning a huge raid on the base confirming that it is indeed still there and manned by live personnel.

Ellie's group makes it to the goverment base, to find out that Joel and his survivors had beaten her there. Having already explained to the soldiers at the base where they were from, and why. Joel is able to ease passage into the base for Ellie, who begrudgingly is forced to accept his aid. Ellie explains to the scientists and doctors there about how she is immune to the cordyceps mutations and how she could be used to help fight back against the its spread, even at the cost of her own life as she feels responsible for the worsening state of the world. Ellie's now girlfriend, unaware of all this immediately objects, as Joel stays silent believing that it best he doesn't say anything after Ellie's last outburst. The doctors explain that there's no need for her to be so drastic, as they have the proper equipment and skilled personnel that they needn't immediately jeopardize the only other immune person they've found, as she is too valuable to sacrifice without 100 percent chance of a cure resulting from her death.

Ellie is shocked, and discovers that the base has been protecting and developing experimental anti-clicker pathogens and vaccines from research they've gained from studying a young immune boy who has been living at the base. Now that they had an adult subject, they believed they could perform more rigorous and indepth studies that they were afraid to do on the young boy for fear of endangering his life. They assure Ellie that they will do all they can to keep her alive, and that she is more valuable to them alive than dead. After taking a day to process the information they just discovered, Joel catches Ellie alone. They have a heartfelt discussion about the choice Joel made for her, Ellie comes to an understanding about why he did it, after having a talk with her girlfriend about whether or not what Joel did was really wrong given that there was no certainty about whether or not the Fireflies could have found a cure. After everything they were only able to meet and have the experiences they did because of the choice Joel made, even though it wound up having dire consequences. Joel apologizes, and Ellie says that while she doesn't quite forgive him for what he did, she says she understands why he did it and is happy she managed to live to see today.

Seeing that their leaders have made up and have successfully made it to the base alive, the survivors decided to have a small celebration that is suggested by the Major in charge of the base. Unfortunately this doesn't come to pass as the base is suddenly under attack by the cultists. A group of the cultists from the camp that Ellie's team took out had arrived after their battle, finding the remains of their comrades, decide to attack the base immediately, making a loud enough ruckus to alert all of the nearby runners and clickers, leading them to the base. Some of the cultists intentionally allow themselves to be infected, and rush the base. Their leader uses the commotion to break into the building followed by a group of runners and clickers, it is discovered that the leader of the cultists is immune. For whatever reason, the runners and clickers have no desire to attack him, possibly due to his appearance of a highly infected runner. He manages to lead the clickers deeper into the base, cleverly using the clickers and runners as shields against the soldiers, killing many of them and the survivors.

Joel and Ellie manage to rally the soldiers and survivors and beat back the horde, but it is decided that they can't handle a prolonged siege and risk losing the immune. Joel decides that he will lead his team in an effort to reach armaments deep inside the base, hoping to use the explosives and heavy artillery to beat back the infected. Ellie demands to go with Joel, Joel tells her he understands and then proceeds to knock her unconscious, handing her to her girlfriend and telling her to take care of his daughter. Joel fights to the other side of the base, reaching the armory, he instructs his men to take the heavy explosives back with them while he holds the infected back.

Ellie wakes up, and is pissed off that Joel has made yet another choice for her and grabs her rifle, ignoring her girlfriends protests, and go off to back up Joel with her girlfriend following her to back her up. They head up to the top of one of the buildings to get a better view of the base and maybe spot Joel. They hear gunfire and see explosions in the distances, apparently Joel has made to a mounted gun on top of one of vehicles in the base, fighting off the infected and drawing them all to his location. Ellie gives Joel covering fire, doing her best to keep the infected from encroaching behind behind him. As the infected begin to subside, Ellie goes to reload.

Joel is suddenly and viciously stabbed from behind by the leader of the cultists. Joel falls from the gun, behind the truck where Ellie can no longer see him as the cultist continues his assault. Terrified and afraid for Joel, Ellie makes her way down to his position. Joel manages to somehow fight off the cultist leader, but his strength fails him. As the cultist leader goes in to deal the deathblow, Ellie strikes him in the face with the butt of her rifle, having forgotten to reload in her haste, she opts to beat him with it eventually smashing the cultists head into pieces in a rage.

Ellie cradles Joels body as her girlfriend catches up to them. Joel again apologies to her, and says that he's sorry her took her choice away from her again, and that he only ever wanted what was best for his baby girl. Joel dies. Ellie breaks down in a mess, as her girlfriend consoles her.

The remnants of the army regroup, and agree to integrate Tommy's camp of survivors into theirs at Ellie's behest in order to strengthen the bases defenses and share supplies, and the young man who bonded with Joel agrees to deliver the news to their camp. Research continues at the base, and eventually a new antifungal gas is developed that the military believes can be used to wipe out the clickers.

Months later Ellie introduces her girlfriend to Tommy, and tells him how his brother died.

The end.

I don't think I'm a better writer or w/e than the folks at Naughty Dog, but this is kinda sorta what I would have expected from a sequel to TLOU, one that stays true to the themes of the first game but does its own thing.
 

GymWolf

Member
"Come on boys, get those reps up!!"

JIQB6JT.png
holy fuck she is buffed as hell.

it's gonna be a pleasure playing with her during melee fights, fuck off ellie and her skinny ass :nougat_rofl:
 
Just read the spoilers. Naughty Dog can go fuck themselves.

I for one won't be buying the game. Just a disgusting way to treat your main characters and the fan base.

Fuck you Druckmann you piece of shit.
Fans: we own these characters
ND: no you dont

Lol like the direction actually, in the last of us universe no one is safe and it provesthat the actions of the first game acrually have severe consequences in this one as well. Everyone in TLOU is an asshole and techincally a mass murderer. They do what they do to survive or get revenge. It makes the world during their pandemic feel real.
 
Fans: we own these characters
ND: no you dont

Lol like the direction actually, in the last of us universe no one is safe and it provesthat the actions of the first game acrually have severe consequences in this one as well. Everyone in TLOU is an asshole and techincally a mass murderer. They do what they do to survive or get revenge. It makes the world during their pandemic feel real.

There's making a game world feel real and then there's SJW cock sucking which in turn decimates the IP.

Did I say SJW? Sorry I meant to say Anita 'give me attention plz' Sarkesian with Druckmann obsessing over.
 
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There's making a game world feel real and then there's SJW cock sucking which in turn decimates the IP.

Did I say SJW? Sorry I meant to say Anita 'give me attention plz' Sarkesian with Druckmann obsessing over.
Wheres the SJW stuff? They have a jacked woman, thats SJW stuff? We dont have context bitch could be on test for all we know. Elliee is gay? We knew that already frok the DLC, hell even Bill in the first game putt in the rough.

The most outcry is from what happens to the charcters, but again we have ni context and no one is safe
 

DForce

NaughtyDog Defense Force
Back with my tinfoil hat theory.

Ending:

KAwzJpd.png


This is by far the most accurate summary we have, but there are some lingering questions.

Final segments of the game.
BzhOh9g.png


The cutscene on the previous page takes place during "The Farm". That's when Ellie reveals to Dina that she wants to find Abby.

It says on the plot summary

Then the epilogue starts, Abby and Lev, who had a short haircut now, are in Santa Barbara

This scene he's referring to may not be the epilogue, but Santa-Barbara. This is before the epilogue takes place.

Since this is confirmed to be a hacker who ONLY footage of the game, then he probably doesn't know how this game ends.

My theory:
Either Ellie gets her revenge on Abby or someone else does. Creating the cycle of violence.

I think there's more that's going to happen in "The End" rather than just a quick summery of Ellie is going to be the bad guy and Abby is still looking for the fireflies.


My Super Tin Foil Hat Theory:
Ellie is called a WOLF by the Seraphites and so is Abby (I think).

They have their own lingo when they aren't communicating via whistles, as well - you might have picked up on the Seraphites calling Ellie "wolf." Margeneau wasn't willing to explain much more about that, but he did assure us that "the depth and meaning will be revealed later."

Seraphites kill Abby

...or Ellie kills Abby in Santa Barbara and then the Seraphites kill Dina while and kidnap her baby.

This would create the cycle of violence and set up for the third installment of TLOU3.
 

Jayjayhd34

Member
There's making a game world feel real and then there's SJW cock sucking which in turn decimates the IP.

Did I say SJW? Sorry I meant to say Anita 'give me attention plz' Sarkesian with Druckmann obsessing over.


That's utter crap. So if they made the game based on what you think is a good story would he been ''sucking'' your cock too ? But that's OK because its your ''agenda'' not one the one you hate.
 
That's utter crap. So if they made the game based on what you think is a good story would he been ''sucking'' your cock too ? But that's OK because its your ''agenda'' not one the one you hate.

Druckmann has LITERALLY publicly stated how he incorporated Anitas ideas into the game which DIRECTLY changed the narrative. That is pandering to SJW rhetoric.

If you want to do that fine, but you don't need to 1) Kill off both protagonists and 2) Force you to play the entire second half of the game as the character that is the one who kills them.

It's saying HEY THIS IS POLITICALLY CORRECT AND FUCK YOU BECAUSE WE ARE FORCING YOU TO PLAY AS THIS SJW CHARACTER YOU NOW HATE.

There are ways of making diversity and inclusivitey done right.

This isn't one of them.
 

Clear

CliffyB's Cock Holster
Back with my tinfoil hat theory.

Ending:

KAwzJpd.png


This is by far the most accurate summary we have, but there are some lingering questions.

Final segments of the game.
BzhOh9g.png


The cutscene on the previous page takes place during "The Farm". That's when Ellie reveals to Dina that she wants to find Abby.

It says on the plot summary



This scene he's referring to may not be the epilogue, but Santa-Barbara. This is before the epilogue takes place.

Since this is confirmed to be a hacker who ONLY footage of the game, then he probably doesn't know how this game ends.

My theory:
Either Ellie gets her revenge on Abby or someone else does. Creating the cycle of violence.

I think there's more that's going to happen in "The End" rather than just a quick summery of Ellie is going to be the bad guy and Abby is still looking for the fireflies.


My Super Tin Foil Hat Theory:
Ellie is called a WOLF by the Seraphites and so is Abby (I think).



Seraphites kill Abby

...or Ellie kills Abby in Santa Barbara and then the Seraphites kill Dina while and kidnap her baby.

This would create the cycle of violence and set up for the third installment of TLOU3.


Isn't the "Wolves" things just a phonetic version of the acronym W.L.F, short for the Washington Liberation Front. The paramilitary outfit that Abby and her crew are a unit of.

These guys seem to be fighting the Seraphites? The wacko's with a penchant for hanging up and gutting people.

It seems obvious that the way the story has to work is that everyone is both right and wrong. The WLF may not be "bad guys" the killing of Joel being a private action taken by Abby and supported by her comrades in the unit. Ellie is going to murder the entire unit in order to get to Abby in retaliation after they decide not to kill her ....ironically because they aren't "savages", merely helping to get justice for Abby's dad.

Its a pretty boilerplate western plot.
 
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DForce

NaughtyDog Defense Force
Isn't the "Wolves" things just a phonetic version of the acronym W.L.F, short for the Washington Liberation Front. The paramilitary outfit that Abby and her crew are a unit of.

These guys seem to be a separate outfit to the Seraphites, the wacko's with a penchant for hanging up and gutting people.
Yeah, I think they're short for WLF.

It makes for an interesting point because they shout wolf whenever they see Ellie.
 
And I'm all for creating more diversity into games. I don't 'hate' it. I just hate how it's being presented and the rhetoric done in a way that totally shits all over beloved characters and makes the first game mean shit. What else did that? Terminator Dark Fate ! It's just forcing their agendas down our throats and destroying these IPs.
 
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It was always going to be a hard ask. The whole introduction of Abby is just stupid. Unfortunately, I think the whole narrative has been built around social media reactions to three things

- the positive reaction to Ellie being lesbian
- the ending where people came up with the galaxy brain take that the protagonist of the entire game was actually the villain
- the lack of agency where you didn;t get the choice to leave the surgeon alive

Now, I don't particularly care about any of the above in TLOU original game, I do have issues with the creep into the second game around certain things.

- I don't have issues with whoever Ellie is dating or who she is close to, just the narcisstic way the studio chose to point and say 'Look, look at us breaking barriers', searching for acclaim. It feels cheap and manipulative, which I'm against in principle. But in terms of the game, doesn't really make a difference to how I play the game etc. romance narratives are bottom of the barrel in most games for me. Being able to date Sera with my female Inquisitior makes about as much difference to my experience as Kratos pumelling Aphrodite. It doesn't register as anything meaningful or important except a narrative beat. The people and sexuality are not important, the relationship and emotions therein are (e.g. Alexander/Hephaestion)
- The ending of the game has you grabbing your daughter 'in-name' and carrying her escaping. It mirrors the opening with Sarah for a reason. Joel hasn't changed, nor become more selfish or grown into a villain. With Sarah he was passive, with the surgeon he was not - although it was not through player agency, which was done on purpose. They've hinged everything on everyone buying into the 'Joel is a selfish piece of shit and liar', when Joel is actually well liked and a flawed 'hero'.
- Again there was a social media storm about how you should have been allowed to choose to leave the surgeons alive and it further confirmed Joel was an asshole. It was developed too far. All the people Joel has killed in the past as a hunter, none of them have come back or tried to cross paths? For basic revenge you had the perfect story with Marlene being the leader of the fireflies killed by Joel. That was a perfect setup - disregarding the antagonist sex/build etc. just for a minute, that specifically is the story beat. People are already sympathetic to Marlene who was basically forced to allow the operation to proceed. She cared for Ellie genuinely and had personal stakes due to the mother/friend connection. She was the rational, human face to the selfish decision that Joel made.

This whole thing just feels like a studio getting too self indulgent and thinking a loud online presence reflects their entire userbase who will lap up everything they produce. This 'feels' to me like the whole game is written around the perspective switch, and they are chasing fame and acclaim for being bold for trying it and pulling it off. Make no mistake, this studio is just waiting for universal praise, they can't even comprehend how divisive this will be and not in a good thought provoking way.

I mean who didn;t go the pictures wanting to see Jason Bourne die at the hands of Desh, then pick up the film from that view as he walks off and hunts down Nicky?

I don’t have any issue with what they’re doing romantically with Ellie regardless of motivation. I didn’t realize there was a whole social media “Joel is the villain” thing though. Honestly this seems like it’s basically trying to address a criticism ND has received for a long time with people for some reason acting like you’d have to be a sociopath to kill as many people as Nathan drake and Joel do, it really depends on how it’s handled. On one hand killing Joel will definitely get an emotional reaction out of the player. And then playing as his killer - if they can pull that off that would be pretty crazy. On the other hand all of Joel’s kills can be justified in the first game so it’s gonna be difficult to walk that back I feel like and make you lose empathy for his perspective enough so you feel motivated in playing as his killer. Doting father or not, if you were the kid of a surgeon who was gonna kill and dissect a little girl for a chance at a cure - I feel like you would have at least some perspective and understanding on why that didn’t go well for him.
 

Jayjayhd34

Member
Druckmann has LITERALLY publicly stated how he incorporated Anitas ideas into the game which DIRECTLY changed the narrative. That is pandering to SJW rhetoric.

If you want to do that fine, but you don't need to 1) Kill off both protagonists and 2) Force you to play the entire second half of the game as the character that is the one who kills them.

It's saying HEY THIS IS POLITICALLY CORRECT AND FUCK YOU BECAUSE WE ARE FORCING YOU TO PLAY AS THIS SJW CHARACTER YOU NOW HATE.

There are ways of making diversity and inclusivitey done right.

This isn't one of them.


Maybe so but end of the day you complaining because a game is pandering towards certain audience, but really you cant see the obvious your basically saying it should always pander to me, that is childish view.
 
Druckmann has LITERALLY publicly stated how he incorporated Anitas ideas into the game which DIRECTLY changed the narrative. That is pandering to SJW rhetoric.

If you want to do that fine, but you don't need to 1) Kill off both protagonists and 2) Force you to play the entire second half of the game as the character that is the one who kills them.

It's saying HEY THIS IS POLITICALLY CORRECT AND FUCK YOU BECAUSE WE ARE FORCING YOU TO PLAY AS THIS SJW CHARACTER YOU NOW HATE.

There are ways of making diversity and inclusivitey done right.

This isn't one of them.
How is that character SJW? Im still trying to make that piece fit. Is it because she has muscles? She was modelled after a real woman with that exact shape, how is that SJW?

you playing as that character gives you perspective of said character which will hopefully lead to a deeper story, and knowing naughty dog it will. Remember, this game is about hate and revenge. Those are some of the two most powerful and darkest emotions a director can convey through characters.
 
How is that character SJW? Im still trying to make that piece fit. Is it because she has muscles? She was modelled after a real woman with that exact shape, how is that SJW?

you playing as that character gives you perspective of said character which will hopefully lead to a deeper story, and knowing naughty dog it will. Remember, this game is about hate and revenge. Those are some of the two most powerful and darkest emotions a director can convey through characters.
Trap questions. You already know the answers.
 

Jbomb19

Member
How is that character SJW? Im still trying to make that piece fit. Is it because she has muscles? She was modelled after a real woman with that exact shape, how is that SJW?

you playing as that character gives you perspective of said character which will hopefully lead to a deeper story, and knowing naughty dog it will. Remember, this game is about hate and revenge. Those are some of the two most powerful and darkest emotions a director can convey through characters.

they’ll never answer that question. The same way they won’t answer if you ask what exactly the agenda is that this game is supposedly pushing. I keep asking people complaining about this “SJW agenda” and no one can answer me.
 
they’ll never answer that question. The same way they won’t answer if you ask what exactly the agenda is that this game is supposedly pushing. I keep asking people complaining about this “SJW agenda” and no one can answer me.
We knew certain characters are already gay etc. The jacked woman is actually based off of a real woman so I still scratch my head and think....wtf are they pushing exactly? Lots of peoe were freaking out days ago now the mob mentality seemed to have calmed down but Im still trying to piece together wtf they were talking about. Ya theres a woman main character, we've had them before etc.
 

Nymphae

Banned
I don't have the patience to look around for the info dumps, can someone verify if this is correct? I read today that not only does Joel get beaten to death with a golf club, but you have to take control of his killer after that and then go for Ellie?
 

Clear

CliffyB's Cock Holster
I don't have the patience to look around for the info dumps, can someone verify if this is correct? I read today that not only does Joel get beaten to death with a golf club, but you have to take control of his killer after that and then go for Ellie?

Close but not exactly. Essentially there appears to be a "b" scenario where you take control of the character who kills Joel in revenge for his murder of her father.
 

Ulysses 31

Member
I don't have the patience to look around for the info dumps, can someone verify if this is correct? I read today that not only does Joel get beaten to death with a golf club, but you have to take control of his killer after that and then go for Ellie?
Also rumored that Ellie is the final boss fight of the game.
 

Jbomb19

Member
We knew certain characters are already gay etc. The jacked woman is actually based off of a real woman so I still scratch my head and think....wtf are they pushing exactly? Lots of peoe were freaking out days ago now the mob mentality seemed to have calmed down but Im still trying to piece together wtf they were talking about. Ya theres a woman main character, we've had them before etc.

I gave up trying to understand how and why they got to “this game is pushing a SJW agenda that will destroy humanity and I am never buying this game because it has ruined all video games before and after it!”
 
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