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[Vaelka]

I'm glad I wasn't the only one annoyed by this. At some point I was actually waiting for someone on a wheelchair to join the patrol.

The seriousness of TLOU and how they make an effort and market the game to be '' realistic '' just makes this all the more bizarre xD...

Edit: What makes it worse too is how she's putting her childs life on the line too... It's not just about her, she's not that far off from giving birth.

 

[GustavoLT]

the fireflies would have used the cure to recruit soldiers and form an army... they all deserved to be killed!

 

[zkorejo]

Didn't you find it a bit lame how the game ignores the context what led Joel to go rescue Ellie? And that Joel himself doesn't mention it when Ellie confronts him? The retcon that Ellie knew what would happen in that hospital when in part I she makes plans with Joel for after her hospital visit? That a lot of the drama comes from characters withholding information?

I dont think Ellie knew for sure she was going to die. They only find it out when they reach the hospital. Ellie ofcourse didnt want to die, but if it was the only option, she wanted to give away her life.

I think it was all pretty much implied why Joel saved her, Ellie was mad at him but also saw his point.

The only information withheld was Joel not telling Ellie that there could have been a cure at her life's expense. Ellie wasn't sold on it, I'm pretty sure that's how the first game ended.

 

[Grinchy]

The seriousness of TLOU and how they make an effort and market the game to be '' realistic '' just makes this all the more bizarre xD...

Edit: What makes it worse too is how she's putting her childs life on the line too... It's not just about her, she's not that far off from giving birth.

The best is when she's climbing up on something and her stomach is clearly crushed by the geometry.

Like at some point it wasn't even her character that was meant to be out doing this stuff but they changed it at some point and her pregnant belly was clipping where the previous character model wouldn't have or something. Moms are tough and women are powerful!

 

[DForce]

Ellie makes plans to go wherever Joel wants to go after the hospital visit, so either she's lying to Joel or she didn't plan to die in that hospital. If she was lying then it's very rich of her to be angry at Joel for lying to her. She wasn't asked if she'd be fine with being sacrificed for a possible cure. She acts angry at Joel taking away her choice when the Fireflies didn't give her a choice either, it's a bizarre way to cause more drama.

After Ellie "finds" out in Part II and confronts him, why wouldn't Joel tell her what a fine bunch the Fireflies were, knocking him out while he's giving her CPR, stealing his gear, not paying for delivering her, sending him away without his gear under threat of death, not letting him see her one more time.

Dude, no. lol

Ellie and Joel both make plans before reaching the hospital.

Ellie is knocked unconscious and she's completely unaware of what happens at the hospital. Ellie wakes up in the back of the truck and Joel tells her that there's other immune people just like her and that her immunity wasn't any good.

She makes it back to the settlement and Ellie believes Joel lied to her about everything that happened at the hospital.

If Ellie knew Joel lied then she's smart enough to figure out WHY he lied to her. THAT is how Ellie knew she was going to die. It wasn't before she made it to the hospital, it was after she realize she what Joel did. She was suppose to die at the hospital because that what she would have wanted to do and Joel made the decision for her and tried his best to hide the true and stopped people from going after her.

There's no retcon.

 

[Ulysses 31]

I dont think Ellie knew for sure she was going to die. They only find it out when they reach the hospital. Ellie ofcourse didnt want to die, but if it was the only option, she wanted to give away her life.

So isn't Ellie being a bit deceitful to Joel then if she knows that she could possibly die but makes plans to go with Joel wherever afterwards?

No one asks her and she never says she'd be fine with it so that character development is from part ii specifically. So with his first impression from the Fireflies and what Joel knows of Ellie then, she can't really stay angry at him for saving her.

 

[zkorejo]

So isn't Ellie being a bit deceitful to Joel then if she knows that she could possibly die but makes plans to go with Joel wherever afterwards?

No one asks her and she never says she'd be fine with it so that character development is from part ii specifically. So with his first impression from the Fireflies and what Joel knows of Ellie then, she can't really stay angry at him for saving her.

She was just a kid.. Ofcourse she wanted to live.. she would have loved to live in a world without the infection. I mean, she was the only thing that was full of life in the first game. It's not like she was told she will definitely be killed to make the cure, no one knew that at that point in time.

And she probably wouldn't have stayed mat at Joel, in the last scene she does say, she will try to forgive. She loved Joel, he was like her father and she understood why Joel saved her, but she also understood that it was very selfish of them.

 

[Ulysses 31]

Dude, no. lol

Ellie and Joel both make plans before reaching the hospital.

Ellie is knocked unconscious and she's completely unaware of what happens at the hospital. Ellie wakes up in the back of the truck and Joel tells her that there's other immune people just like her and that her immunity wasn't any good.

She makes it back to the settlement and Ellie believes Joel lied to her about everything that happened at the hospital.

If Ellie knew Joel lied then she's smart enough to figure out WHY he lied to her. THAT is how Ellie knew she was going to die. It wasn't before she made it to the hospital, it was after she realize she what Joel did. She was suppose to die at the hospital because that what she would have wanted to do and Joel made the decision for her and tried his best to hide the true and stopped people from going after her.

There's no retcon.

Ellie wasn't planning to die in that hospital when she says she'll go wherever with Joel afterwards, it's right after the giraffe scene.

The ending is memorable for its ambiguity, we don't know if Ellie knew she would've died. That she knows Joel is lying is just about the only sure bet we can make without part II. The rest is speculation on your part. She doesn't know what Joel did, she can only make assumptions.

Where in part I should Joel have figured out she would've wanted to die for a possible cure? No one ever asks her and she never mentions it, if she made plans for a future with him then it's reasonable of Joel to assume she wouldn't have wanted to die.

 

[DForce]

Ellie wasn't planning to die in that hospital when she says she'll go wherever with Joel afterwards, it's right after the giraffe scene.

The ending is memorable for its ambiguity, we don't know if Ellie knew she would've died. That she knows Joel is lying is just about the only sure bet we can make without part II. The rest is speculation on your part. She doesn't know what Joel did, she can only make assumptions.

Where in part I should Joel have figured out she would've wanted to die for a possible cure? No one ever asks her and she never mentions it, if she made plans for a future with him then it's reasonable of Joel to assume she wouldn't have wanted to die.

Then you just complete missed the point of the ending.

There's only one reason why Ellie would have the disappointed look on her face a the end, and that's because she knew Joel lied to her.

You would have a point if Ellie gave no indication that she didn't like what Joel did at the end of TLOU part I, but she did and it was clear as day.


The ending was morally ambiguous. That's it. Did Joel make the right decision or not?

You can't look at Ellie's face at the end and come to the conclusion that she didn't know Joel was lying because she clearly did.

 

[Ulysses 31]

Then you just complete missed the point of the ending.

There's only one reason why Ellie would have the disappointed look on her face a the end, and that's because she knew Joel lied to her.

You would have a point if Ellie gave no indication that she didn't like what Joel did at the end of TLOU part I, but she did and it was clear as day.


The ending was morally ambiguous. That's it. Did Joel make the right decision or not?

You can't look at Ellie's face at the end and come to the conclusion that she didn't know Joel was lying because she clearly did.

My issue's not that she knows that Joel lied to her in part I, it's that in part II she's angry at Joel for ruining her death. That she acts as if Joel somehow should've known that she would've wanted to die for a possible cure. The retcon that Joel rescued Ellie knowing that she didn't want to be.

 

[Woggleman]

Ellie's anger towards Joel is misplaced survivor's guilt because she feels her life has come at the expense of humanity plus she doesn't like that he keeps lying to her until he can't anymore.

 

[DForce]

My issue's not that she knows that Joel lied to her in part I, it's that in part II she's angry at Joel for ruining her death. That she acts as if Joel somehow should've known that she would've to die for a possible cure. The retcon that Joel rescued Ellie knowing that she didn't want to be.

She was angry at Joel at the end of the first game.

You're trying really hard to "prove" it's a "retcon" when it keeps falling short.

Ellie is upset for one reason only. Neil said all the way back in 2013 that Joel made that decision for her and she was upset with him for doing it.

 

[Ulysses 31]

She was angry at Joel at the end of the first game.

You're trying really hard to "prove" it's a "retcon" when it keeps falling short.

Ellie is upset for one reason only. Neil said all the way back in 2013 that Joel made that decision for her and she was upset with him for doing it.

Druckmann also said that Ellie is the only playable character in part II.

You're not showing that Joel acted unreasonable when he rescued Ellie to earn the scorn of Ellie in part II.

How do we really know she was angry at the end of part I? The game doesn't give us that info. I personally saw it as Ellie thinking: "Joel's not gonna be more forthcoming about what went down at that hospital so might as well move on to another subject.".

Seems Druckmann didn't really think it though, Ellie wasn't conscious to make any decision and the Fireflies were going to make a rather final decision for her so it's strange that only Joel gets all the hate.

 

[DForce]

Druckmann also said that Ellie is the only playable character in part II.

You're not showing that Joel acted unreasonable when he rescued Ellie to earn the scorn of Ellie in part II.

How do we really know she was angry at the end of part I? The game doesn't give us that info. I personally saw it as Ellie thinking: "Joel's not gonna be more forthcoming about what went down at that hospital so might as well move on to another subject.".

Seems Druckmann didn't really think it though, Ellie wasn't conscious to make any decision and the Fireflies were going to make a rather final decision for her so it's strange that only Joel gets all the hate.

Joel was hiding the fact that you would play as her.

Like I just said, you're trying to prove something and it's going no where.

Sure, she has a disappointed look on her face for no reason at all.

 

[Terenty]

Ellie is upset for one reason only. Neil said all the way back in 2013 that Joel made that decision for her and she was upset with him for doing it.

As opposed to Fireflies that were gonna honour her right to make that decision, right?

 

[Ulysses 31]

Joel was hiding the fact that you would play as her.

Like I just said, you're trying to prove something and it's going no where.

Sure, she has a disappointed look on her face for no reason at all.

I get that she's disappointed that Joel lied to her but I don't immediately see anger because she doesn't know what Joel did to get her out of there.

I'm curious, in your opinion, with what Joel knew of Ellie and the way he'd been treated by the Fireflies, do you think Joel had a good enough reason to get Ellie back?

 

[Reindeer]

Well, the game went out of top ten in UK pretty quick for the biggest PS4 release this gen, hopefully that will teach Druckman a lesson.

 

[DForce]

As opposed to Fireflies that were gonna honour her right to make that decision, right?

Neither asked Ellie's consent. We just know now that Ellie would have wanted to die.

I get that she's disappointed that Joel lied to her but I don't immediately see anger because she doesn't know what Joel did to get her out of there.

I'm curious, in your opinion, with what Joel knew of Ellie and the way he'd been treated by the Fireflies, do you think Joel had a good enough reason to get Ellie back?

Again, this makes no sense. She wanted Joel to promise to her to see if he would tell the truth.

He didn't and she was disappointed.

 

[Terenty]

Neither asked Ellie's consent. We just know now that Ellie would have wanted to die.

So she doesn't care whatsoever who produces the cure? As long as she is killed and there's a vaccine she is happy? The fact that Fireflies is a shady terrorist organisation doesn't sway her at all?

 

[Ulysses 31]

Again, this makes no sense. She wanted Joel to promise to her to see if he would tell the truth.

He didn't and she was disappointed.

Again, I see the disappointment in her face and the game ends there leaving it to our imagination if she gets angry at Joel or give him the benefit of the doubt. I don't think it's unreasonable that the not knowing could grow into anger over time. That's still different from being angry that she didn't get to die in that hospital though which is what part II is pushing.

So do you think Joel had good enough reason to get her back(not talking about the lying afterwards)?

 

[DForce]

So she doesn't care whatsoever who produces the cure? As long as she is killed and there's a vaccine she is happy? The fact that Fireflies is a shady terrorist organisation doesn't sway her at all?

And making a cure for mankind doesn't mean anything?

 

[Terenty]

And making a cure for mankind doesn't mean anything?

Not for mankind, for political gain most likely given what we know about Fireflies. Why would an organisation willing to bomb and kill people, willing to kill a child all of a sudden decide to become a beacon of virtue and cure all mankind?

 

[Ulysses 31]

And making a cure for mankind doesn't mean anything?

The main threat coming from the infected is getting ripped to pieces to which a vaccine won't help, only if you somehow survive a bite/cut or breathe spores could a vaccine be useful. Then there's the question if enough vaccines could be produced for the rest of mankind and then if the ones responsible for distributing wouldn't abuse that power. It's a bleak world in that game.

 

[DForce]

Not for mankind, for political gain most likely given what we know about Fireflies. Why would an organisation willing to bomb and kill people, willing to kill a child all of a sudden decide to become a beacon of virtue and cure all mankind?

There going to make a vaccine.

Nothing in the game suggest otherwise. Can't decide to change the narrative of the game. It's already established.

 

[DForce]

The main threat coming from the infected is getting ripped to pieces to which a vaccine won't help, only if you somehow survive a bite/cut or breathe spores could a vaccine be useful. Then there's the question if enough vaccines could be produces for the rest of mankind and then if the ones responsible for distributing wouldn't abuse that power. It's a bleak world in that game.

Ellie is immune to bites and spores.

That's what it would have done.

Seriously, it's not working to try to find "holes". lol

 

[Terenty]

There going to make a vaccine.

Nothing in the game suggest otherwise. Can't decide to change the narrative of the game. It's already established.

So again, Ellie didn't care that it was a terrorist organisation who wanted to produce the vaccine, by killing her without her consent?

 

[Ulysses 31]

Ellie is immune to bites and spores.

That's what it would have done.

Seriously, it's not working to try to find "holes". lol

I'm sure you've seen plenty of death to infected where a vaccine wouldn't have made a difference while playing the games.

A vaccine is still more of a limited use case compared to the roaming infected that are doing most of the killing. I wasn't pointing out any holes in the story, just questions of how things would play out.

Stop avoiding answering if Joel had a good reason to rescue Ellie.

 

[DForce]

So again, Ellie didn't care that it was a terrorist organisation who wanted to produce the vaccine, by killing her without her consent?

It's clear she didn't care enough because she was willing to give her life for a cure.

You're asking ridiculous questions.

- She traveled across the country to help produce a cure.
- She was willing to give her life for that cure.

 

[DForce]

I'm sure you've seen plenty of death to infected where a vaccine wouldn't have made a difference while playing the games.

A vaccine is still more of a limited use case compared to the roaming infected that are doing most of the killing. I wasn't pointing out any holes in the story, just questions of how things would play out.

Stop avoiding answering if Joel had a good reason to rescue Ellie.

No cure is better than nothing. It would eventually stop because humans can no longer be infected.

Not working, dude. lol

 

[Terenty]

It's clear she didn't care enough because she was willing to give her life for a cure.

You're asking ridiculous questions.

- She traveled across the country to help produce a cure.
- She was willing to give her life for that cure.

Ok, lets imagine the following situation:

Ellie wakes up, wants to see Joel, Fireflies tell her they won't let her see Joel and whatever she decides they are gonna kill her for the vaccine. Do you think she would still be willing to get killed by these people for a chance of a vaccine?

 

[Ulysses 31]

No cure is better than nothing. It would eventually stop because humans can no longer be infected.

Not working, dude. lol

A cure is better than no cure obviously but you make rather big assumptions that enough could be produced and distributed for the infection to die out though.

What's not working? I'm curious on your take of Joel getting Ellie out of the hospital.

 

[DForce]

Ok, lets imagine the following situation:

Ellie wakes up, wants to see Joel, Fireflies tell her they won't let her see Joel and whatever she decides they are gonna kill her for the vaccine. Do you think she would still be willing to get killed by these people for a chance of a vaccine?

You guys try so hard.

Ellie tells Joel about the story of Riley because she was still waiting for her turn to die.

This means Ellie wouldn't object to being killed for a cure. There would be no reason why they wouldn't block Ellie from seeing Joel, but if they did (which is a dumb scenario based on who the story went) then Ellie would've probably wrote Joel a letter before dying.


People just need to accept the fact that it's not a retcon. Nothing anyone has said so far makes any sense.

 

[Terenty]

A cure is better than no cure obviously but you make rather big assumptions that enough could be produced and distributed for the infection to die out though.

What's not working? I'm curious on your take of Joel getting Ellie out of the hospital.

There will be drugstores on every corner selling vaccine, dude, dont you get it

 

[DForce]

A cure is better than no cure obviously but you make rather big assumptions that enough could be produced and distributed for the infection to die out though.

What's not working? I'm curious on your take of Joel getting Ellie out of the hospital.

It's a video game.

It's like saying they can't find enough livestock or enough food to feed a community for so many years, especially where the infected feed off living creatures.

It's a fictional story. They cure were going to make a cure to benefit mankind. You're just trying to look for scenarios where it wouldn't' matter.

 

[zkorejo]

You guys are using alot of What If Scenarios. There's plenty wrong with TLOU2 we all can focus on and not TLOU1. In my mind, TLOU was head and shoulders above the sequel. The more I sit on it, the more I realize... the second game didnt do the characters, overall plot or the players any justice.

Safe to say, if there is a third game I am out. They created amazing characters in the first game and destroyed them in the sequel. And none of the new characters hold a candle to the old ones for me to care about in their future adventures, if any. I may understand Abby and her decisions but I sure don't like her half as much as I liked Joel and Ellie in the first game. Hell, I didnt even like Ellie as much as I liked her in the first.

 

[Ulysses 31]

You guys try so hard.

Ellie tells Joel about the story of Riley because she was still waiting for her turn to die.

This means Ellie wouldn't object to being killed for a cure. There would be no reason why they wouldn't block Ellie from seeing Joel, but if they did (which is a dumb scenario based on who the story went) then Ellie would've probably wrote Joel a letter before dying.


People just need to accept the fact that it's not a retcon. Nothing anyone has said so far makes any sense.

Big assumptions.

After Ellie learns to love Joel it stands to reason that she wouldn't be as willing to die for a cure anymore. The game could've shed light on this but for some reason, Ellie has to die without ever being asked within hours after the Fireflies find her.

It's dumb that Ellie would be denied to see Joel but it's fine that the Fireflies deny Joel's request to see Ellie?

And I'm sure Ellie would have a thing to say about the Fireflies sending off Joel without his gear in Salt Lake City which would've likely gotten him killed. Maybe she'd even rethink of dying for the Fireflies and a cure if it's at the cost of Joel.

 

[DForce]

Big assumptions.

After Ellie learns to love Joel it stands to reason that she wouldn't be as willing to die for a cure anymore. The game could've shed light on this but for some reason, Ellie has to die without ever being asked within hours after the Fireflies find her.

It's dumb that Ellie would be denied to see Joel but it's fine that the Fireflies deny Joel's request to see Ellie?

And I'm sure Ellie would have a thing to say about the Fireflies sending off Joel without his gear in Salt Lake City which would likely get him killed. Maybe she would've even rethink of dying for the Fireflies and a cure.

There's no assumptions. You're making up theories that makes no sense.

Sorry, but you're failing at this. lol

 

[Ulysses 31]

There's no assumptions. You're making up theories that makes no sense.

Sorry, but you're failing at this. lol

Your assumptions aren't assumptions, only mine are?

What's there to fall for? Wouldn't Ellie object to the Fireflies taking all of Joel's gear, not paying for delivery and send him off unarmed in Salt Lake City after all they've been through? Would that be out of character of Ellie?

 

[DForce]

Your assumptions aren't assumptions, only mine are?

What's there to fall for? Wouldn't Ellie object to the Fireflies taking all of Joel's gear, not paying for delivery and send him off unarmed in Salt Lake City after all they've been through? Would that be out of character of Ellie?

Ellie was willing to sacrifice her life.

You're trying to say there's a possibility that she wouldn't.

Does Part 1 or Part 2 indicated that she didn't like what the fireflies were trying to do in regards to a cure?

 

[Ulysses 31]

Ellie was willing to sacrifice her life.

You're trying to say there's a possibility that she wouldn't.

Does Part 1 or Part 2 indicated that she didn't like what the fireflies were trying to do in regards to a cure?

Assuming that's the case, why would she quietly go along with Joel's future plans without mentioning it?

If she knew how the Fireflies were treating Joel and were likely to get him killed, yeah there's a probable chance that Ellie would become hostile to the Fireflies.

Not quite sure what you mean here? Of course Ellie would be for a cure and thus help people who're trying to produce one at first.

 

[Terenty]

There would be no reason why they wouldn't block Ellie from seeing Joel, but if they did (which is a dumb scenario based on who the story went) then Ellie would've probably wrote Joel a letter before dying.

But they blocked Joel, no?

People just need to accept the fact that it's not a retcon. Nothing anyone has said so far makes any sense.

I'm not even talking about whether its a retcon or not, i'm just trying to understand why was Ellie so ass mad at Joel for saving her life from terrorists.

Ok, she was 14 years old then she wanted to die blah blah, now she is 19, old enough to understand the nuances of what transpired that day. She knew how Joel felt towards her, she was glad he treated her like his own daughter, she wanted Joel to be with her forever and not to abandon her like everybody else, and then when he risked his life to save her from a terrorist she makes a 180 and blames him for not abandoning her? Where's her understanding, her gratitude?

 

[DForce]

Assuming that's the case, why would she quietly go along with Joel's future plans without mentioning it?

If she knew how the Fireflies were treating Joel and were likely to get him killed, yeah there's a probable chance that Ellie would become hostile to the Fireflies.

Not quite sure what you mean here? Of course Ellie would be for a cure and thus help people who're trying to produce one at first.

She knew she would've died after finding out that Joel lied to her.

I'll ask again, because you're falling apart here.

If she knew how the Fireflies were treating Joel and were likely to get him killed, yeah there's a probable chance that Ellie would become hostile to the Fireflies.

Stop

Now you're trying to fill in the holes in your theory after you failed.

 

[DForce]

But they blocked Joel, no?

I'm not even talking about whether its a retcon or not, i'm just trying to understand why was Ellie so ass mad at Joel for saving her life from terrorists.

Ok, she was 14 years old then she wanted to die blah blah, now she is 19, old enough to understand the nuances of what transpired that day. She knew how Joel felt towards her, she was glad he treated her like his own daughter, she wanted Joel to be with her forever and not to abandon her like everybody else, and then when he risked his life to save her from a terrorist she makes a 180 and blames him for not abandoning her? Where's her understanding, her gratitude?

No.

She didn't know it would cost her life before making it to he hospital.

She believes giving up her life was more important than saving her life. As others have said in here before, it's survivor's guilt. Joel made the decision for himself because that's what he wanted. He lied to Ellie because he knew that's not what she would have wanted.


I don't see why people are having a hard time understanding this.

 

[Ulysses 31]

She knew she would've died after finding out that Joel lied to her.

I'll ask again, because you're falling apart here.



Stop

Now you're trying to fill in the holes in your theory after you failed.

If she's lying by omission first then she doesn't really have a moral high ground on Joel and reason to be angry, seeing how she's lying to spare Joel like he's doing to her with his lies, does she?

Yeah, the man she grew to love as a father throughout the game getting threatened with death wouldn't raise any concern with her. Just a baseless theory according to you.

 

[Terenty]

No.

She didn't know it would cost her life before making it to he hospital.

She believes giving up her life was more important than saving her life. As others have said in here before, it's survivor's guilt. Joel made the decision for himself because that's what he wanted. He lied to Ellie because he knew that's not what she would have wanted.


I don't see why people are having a hard time understanding this.

Then why is it so hard for her to understand why Joel saved her that day? She herself asked him not to abandon her, that she felt alone all her life, she was happy with Joel becoming her father figure etc. Why was she so mad and treated him like shit for 2 years before his death? Isn't it obvious to any sane person why he saved her from a bunch of terrorists?

My point is the drama around this in tlou 2 feels forced and unnatural, because there's nothing morally grey about Joel's decision and Ellie should have been the first to understand him, not scold him for 2 years.

 

[DForce]

Then why is it so hard for her to understand why Joel saved her that day? She herself asked him not to abandon her, that she felt alone all her life, she was happy with Joel becoming her father figure etc. Why was she so mad and treated him like shit for 2 years before his death? Isn't it obvious to any sane person why he saved her from a bunch of terrorists?

My point is the drama around this in tlou 2 feels forced and unnatural, because there's nothing morally grey about Joel's decision and Ellie should have been the first to understand him, not scold him for 2 years.

I just explained it.

Still doesn't surprise me that you're still having a difficult time understanding it.

 

[Terenty]

I just explained it.

Still doesn't surprise me that you're still having a difficult time understanding it.

If she wanted to die so much why did she manipulate Joel into becoming her father figure?

 

[Ulysses 31]

Then why is it so hard for her to understand why Joel saved her that day? She herself asked him not to abandon her, that she felt alone all her life, she was happy with Joel becoming her father figure etc. Why was she so mad and treated him like shit for 2 years before his death? Isn't it obvious to any sane person why he saved her from a bunch of terrorists?

My point is the drama around this in tlou 2 feels forced and unnatural, because there's nothing morally grey about Joel's decision and Ellie should have been the first to understand him, not scold him for 2 years.

He won't answer if Joel did the right thing getting her out of that hospital, my guess is he doesn't think so and thus he's fine with Ellie being angry at him in part II.

The drama in part II relies a bit much on characters withholding information from each other, Joel not mentioning how the Firelfies were treating him to Ellie, Abby not saying who she really is, "guess", to Joel, Ellie and Abby not mentioning who they're really avenging to each other etc.

 

[DForce]

If she wanted to die so much why did she manipulate Joel into becoming her father figure?

You mean she knew she was going to die way before making it to the hospital?

See, this is what happens when you don't pay attention.

 

[Jesus93]

it's funny how all the discussion about the vaccine ended up in nothing because the sequel didn't tell us anything new about it, and it's very ridiculous that in 2 whole years Ellie and Joel never sit and properly talk about what happened, I don't understand why Joel didn't explain the situation correctly, it was weird.